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firstpeterone
Nov 16th 2009, 12:24 AM
John 20:23

If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven

Is this speaking of the need to forgive others so you will be forgiven by the Father? Or does it mean that some people's sins are still on their head if we don't forgive them? Any help?

Partaker of Christ
Nov 16th 2009, 12:48 AM
John 20:23

If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven

Is this speaking of the need to forgive others so you will be forgiven by the Father? Or does it mean that some people's sins are still on their head if we don't forgive them? Any help?

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

I don't think this is about forgiving sins committed personally against the disciples.

The verse before says "Receive ye the Holy Ghost", I believe that Jesus was giving them authority to forgive sins, just as He did.


Mark 2:2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.
Mark 2:3 And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.
Mark 2:4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.
Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Mark 2:6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Mark 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
Mark 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
Mark 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
Mark 2:11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.
Mark 2:12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.

Butch5
Nov 16th 2009, 02:25 AM
John 20:23

If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven

Is this speaking of the need to forgive others so you will be forgiven by the Father? Or does it mean that some people's sins are still on their head if we don't forgive them? Any help?

This was given to the Apostles only.

Jesus speaks elsewhere of our need to forgive others.


Matthew 6:9-15 ( KJV )
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Mark 11:25-26 ( KJV )
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

firstpeterone
Nov 16th 2009, 02:58 AM
I think I understand now, just like Jesus forgave people their sins and/or healed them or said that their faith has healed them He gave the apostles' (disciples) the same power to forgive sins/heal in response to their faith. Right?

JohnDB
Nov 16th 2009, 03:13 AM
John 20:23

If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven

Is this speaking of the need to forgive others so you will be forgiven by the Father? Or does it mean that some people's sins are still on their head if we don't forgive them? Any help?

The translation is really lost in English here from the greek.

The Apostles job is forthtelling of what has already taken place. They are not in the place of Jesus with the ability to forgive sin or not. They are to declare what God will or has done or has not done. (Simon Magnus comes to mind...whoever baptized him really messed up)

Partaker of Christ
Nov 16th 2009, 03:27 PM
I think I understand now, just like Jesus forgave people their sins and/or healed them or said that their faith has healed them He gave the apostles' (disciples) the same power to forgive sins/heal in response to their faith. Right?

It isn't like they had the authority, to go around and forgive whoever and whatever sins. It is still only God who can forgive sins.

If I have understood 'JohnDB' correctly, I would very much agree with him.

They received the Holy Spirit, so they would be led by the Spirit, as to who would be forgiven. The Apostles would be confirming what God had done, or was doing.

Jesus Himself said, I do nothing of my own, I do what I see my Father doing.

I think this may be a good example:

Act 14:9 This man heard Paul speaking. Paul, observing him intently and seeing that he had faith to be healed,
Act 14:10 said with a loud voice, "Stand up straight on your feet!" And he leaped and walked.

JohnDB
Nov 16th 2009, 03:57 PM
It isn't like they had the authority, to go around and forgive whoever and whatever sins. It is still only God who can forgive sins.

If I have understood 'JohnDB' correctly, I would very much agree with him.

They received the Holy Spirit, so they would be led by the Spirit, as to who would be forgiven. The Apostles would be confirming what God had done, or was doing.

Jesus Himself said, I do nothing of my own, I do what I see my Father doing.

I think this may be a good example:

Act 14:9 This man heard Paul speaking. Paul, observing him intently and seeing that he had faith to be healed,
Act 14:10 said with a loud voice, "Stand up straight on your feet!" And he leaped and walked.

And we would be in agreement...sorry for the confusion.