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View Full Version : Please Help What verses talk about donating money to churches?



tmentour
Nov 22nd 2009, 02:03 PM
Please post the verses and tell me if the money should actually be donated to a church or if it can be sent to church groups.

freeman4
Nov 22nd 2009, 02:42 PM
To my understanding, as long as one pay 1/10 tenth of their income, they can pay it to whom ever they want as for as a Church.You have done what God asked you to do. They would be accountable to God in using it the right way.

Houston Heather
Nov 22nd 2009, 03:18 PM
I would be more inclined to send it to a ministry, than have it used to make a mortgage payment on a fancy palace.

-SEEKING-
Nov 22nd 2009, 09:47 PM
Remember the OP asked for verses. So let's stick with that. Thanks.

Sirus
Nov 22nd 2009, 09:51 PM
Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
Act 11:30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

karenoka27
Nov 22nd 2009, 09:57 PM
1 Corinthians 16:1-2-"Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made."

My belief is that your giving should be done to your local church before outside churches. You should support your pastor and the upkeep of your own to help your pastor do what he needs to do without concern, preach the Word.

Sirus
Nov 22nd 2009, 09:59 PM
Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
Rom 15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

2Co 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2Co 9:2 For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
2Co 9:3 Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
2Co 9:4 Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.
2Co 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
2Co 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

1Co 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1Co 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

livingwaters
Nov 22nd 2009, 10:29 PM
Hi there,

I've included this link to bible.com which explains about tithing. Surely hope it helps you to understand what God's Word says!

http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=161

God bless:)

-SEEKING-
Nov 22nd 2009, 10:48 PM
Above all else PRAY, read your bible, and ask God to put in your heart what He wants you to give.

Athanasius
Nov 22nd 2009, 11:40 PM
I always liked 1 Timothy 5:18, "For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages." Just because I know a lot of people ask the 'Why should I tithe?' question without bothering to think, 'Does my pastor even need money?'

thedee
Dec 3rd 2009, 07:41 PM
To my understanding, as long as one pay 1/10 tenth of their income, they can pay it to whom ever they want as for as a Church.You have done what God asked you to do. They would be accountable to God in using it the right way.

The 1/10 tithing is false. That is Old Testament and that was for the jews. In a sense that was a tax.

As far as New Testament tithing we are instructed to give as our heart desires.

2 Cor 9:7
So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

webhead
Dec 3rd 2009, 08:41 PM
The 1/10 tithing is false. That is Old Testament and that was for the jews. In a sense that was a tax.

As far as New Testament tithing we are instructed to give as our heart desires.

2 Cor 9:7
So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

True.

The OT 10% tithe was for the Jewish Levetical Priesthood, and has no bearing on 21st century Gentile Christians at all.

We are required as Christians to give much more then 10% of anything to God, as 2 Cor 9:7 teaches.

goykodesh
Dec 3rd 2009, 08:48 PM
True.

The OT 10% tithe was for the Jewish Levetical Priesthood.......

That's not counting all the numerous charitable laws that many ignored.


We are required as Christians to give much more then 10% of anything to God, as 2 Cor 9:7 teaches.

Amen

webhead
Dec 3rd 2009, 08:49 PM
And where did the Levetical Priesthood get their 10% tithe idea from? Their father Abraham possibly? Who got it from God possibly?

And what did the Apostle Paul teach his gentile brethren to do? The 10% Levitical tithe system? The gentile churches Paul started did not practice temple sacrifice, temple worship, and they did not obey any of the Jewish Levetical laws. They weren't required to.

goykodesh
Dec 3rd 2009, 08:57 PM
And where did the Levetical Priesthood get their 10% tithe idea from? Their father Abraham possibly? Who got it from God possibly?


Genesis 14:20. Abraham gave 1/10th of the plunder (or gain). Also see Jacob in Gen 28:22.

uric3
Dec 3rd 2009, 09:18 PM
Please post the verses and tell me if the money should actually be donated to a church or if it can be sent to church groups.

In short there aren't any... as you might have noticed in all of the verses posted before hand there as no church treasury or anything of that nature to start with. Most people like to refer to 1st Cor 16:1-2 however there is no mention of the assembly there. If you read it in Greek or in some translations it'd read a little more like this.

""Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up at home, so that when I come no collections will have to be made."

What is being said there is on the first day of the week you set aside a bit of money at home and save it up. That way when I come no collections will have to be made... basically giving time for people to save up something to send so when Paul came they wouldn't be trying to scramble to get together a decent collection to send to the needy brothers and sisters.

You'll also notice this was not supposed to be a every first say of the week thing... how long was it supposed to take place? Till Paul came to collect it...

You'll notice in Acts 11:28-ff same thing it was to send relief to needy breathern and was a one time collection. Same thing once again in Rom 15:26, and 2nd Cor 2:9 is refering back to the offering in 1st Cor 16.

Also as thedee pointed out a 10th isn't necessary we are to give as we purposed in our heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. So if you really needed the money to put food on your own table you wouldn't have to give 10% because God doesn't want you to give it if its a necessity... however if you have a lot then you should give a lot.

So what should we do, well each of us are to be good stewards of our money... can we give it to the church to use to pay the preacher, etc? Of course nothing wrong with that, however there has been times that I would give it to someone in need rather than giving it to the church because thats part of it. For example there is a needy church in India trying to make due but can't a friend of mine sends money to them on a regular basis because they need it more than we do here at our church. Thats ok and it fits with how we are supposed to live...

What a lot of people have done is give X amount to the church and are like they'll do good with it and never take the oppurtinity to help others around them... for shame to put of your individual work as a Chiristian off on the church...

We need to not only give some to our church for it to support the work there but you should also find people, congregations, or other ways to use it as well.

Steve M
Dec 3rd 2009, 09:28 PM
The church collectively--all of us--are tasked with financial responsibilities.

To pay for those who preach the gospel. (the laborer is worthy of his hire)

To help the needy.

And... uh... hm... yeah, nothing in there about buildings.

How we choose to organize ourselves to pay for these things is unimportant. You can pay the preacher directly out of your pocket if you hate tradition that much. (I hate tradition; it does nothing but turn people away from God and His word)

But the Lord has given us responsibilities.

uric3
Dec 3rd 2009, 09:40 PM
:agree:

Its just a tradition and as you pointed out in a more simple manner than me is we each have our own responsibility to give. Thus we can give the preacher money out of our pocket or give it to a needy brother if we so choose. However I think it'd be better if we gave to the needy ourselves if possible rather than the whole church thus it shows you individual care and its on a personal level... also if you help a non-Christian they are more likely to listen if they see it came from just you on a personal level.

ed2
Dec 4th 2009, 04:04 AM
The church collectively--all of us--are tasked with financial responsibilities.

To pay for those who preach the gospel. (the laborer is worthy of his hire)

To help the needy.

And... uh... hm... yeah, nothing in there about buildings.

How we choose to organize ourselves to pay for these things is unimportant. You can pay the preacher directly out of your pocket if you hate tradition that much. (I hate tradition; it does nothing but turn people away from God and His word)

But the Lord has given us responsibilities.


we are all charged to preach the gospel, so should we all get paid?

i like the buildings comment...ever noticed how a lot of pastors will start a teaching series on "tithing" right before a building project.

Sylvia49
Dec 4th 2009, 04:39 AM
In my church, the tithe goes to our conference for the support of our pastors. Each pastor is given the same salary, whether he has a large church or a small one.

When we give feewill offerings, it can go anyplace we wish it to. Sometimes we will designate it to go to the church for the special support of those who need help at different times. Or if we know of a family or individual who needs help, we will give it to them.

I know that the Lord wants to give with a cheerful heart, and if the tithe or offerings are compulsory, or requested by giving a guilt trip, it comes from a fearful, grudging heart. So many of the "prosperity " preachers do this all the time. You're supposed to "give" so you can "get." So wrong.

Sirus
Dec 4th 2009, 05:17 AM
we are all charged to preach the gospel, so should we all get paid?Context
1Co 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1Co 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
I realize few preachers do.

One thing we should be mindful of in discussing this subject is Paul and his helpers example. We know they were not paid. They did not use this power. In this they answered to no one and could always speak the truth freely, not being a hireling. If you can be fired you are hired. So while most may 'work' in the day, Paul and company worked the gospel by day and with their hands at night and were not disorderly or a burden to any man and could therefore not be brought under the charge of any, hindering the gospel.

ed2
Dec 4th 2009, 05:32 AM
sirus, i totally agree.

i asked the question in response to steve's post that where he said one of our financial responsibilities was to "pay those who preach the gospel"...

this would seem to me that he is saying that those who preach the gospel, which is supposed to be all christians, should be getting paid. the reason for my response was just to make sure that i wasn't misunderstanding what he posted..

thanks

JapanKen
Dec 4th 2009, 07:46 AM
2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

This verse could very well be applied to witnessing....but if you want your fellowship or seminar to meet inside and not be distracted by weather conditions it seems common sense for people to pitch in.....I'm referring to small fellowships here....and if the pastor needs help he should feel free to make his requests known.

The body should also help pay for the outreach tools, bibles extra etc. many hands make work light. Ministry costs money.

Sylvia49
Dec 4th 2009, 09:47 AM
Yes, JK, churches do need funds to be able to operate. Even small groups and house churches need some funds.

I don't believe we should just be bench warmers. What God has given us we should just as generously give to others. And if that is a problem, especially in this economy, we can give of ourselves. Sometimes personal service means more than anything else.:amen:

GBU, Sylvia49:pp

Steven3
Dec 4th 2009, 10:48 AM
Hi
In short there aren't any... as you might have noticed in all of the verses posted before hand there as no church treasury or anything of that nature to start with. Good answer. Though there had to have a 'bag' in the Acts 6 church for feeding the widows, just as Judas carried the 'bag' for the 12. So it's likely this "much as you are able" offering for the famine in Judea in 1Co16 was Paul piggybacking on a smaller collection for local welfare.

But no, tithes are a later idea. I can't remember offhand but I thought it was 3rd or 4th Century -- as more and more churches had paid priests and big buildings rather than unpaid presbyters.

Steve M
Dec 4th 2009, 01:18 PM
we are all charged to preach the gospel, so should we all get paid?

i like the buildings comment...ever noticed how a lot of pastors will start a teaching series on "tithing" right before a building project.
We are all tasked to carry the gospel, but there are some individuals who it is clear are given more than a general calling; they're called to give their whole lives to it. We're called on to pay elders who rule well, as well as those who are going outward to carry the call (evangelists).

Of course, with the way the modern church conflates the roles of elder and preacher...... well, it's no wonder there's confusion all around.

EDIT: Scripture for my points would be good, no?

1 Tim 5 17(D (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy+5:16-18&version=NASB#cen-NASB-29781D))The elders who (E (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy+5:16-18&version=NASB#cen-NASB-29781E))rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who (F (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy+5:16-18&version=NASB#cen-NASB-29781F))work hard at preaching and teaching. 18For the Scripture says, "(G (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy+5:16-18&version=NASB#cen-NASB-29782G))YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "(H (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy+5:16-18&version=NASB#cen-NASB-29782H))The laborer is worthy of his wages."



1 Corinthians 9


6Or do only (K (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28547K))Barnabas and I not have a right to refrain from working?
7Who at any time serves (L (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28548L))as a soldier at his own expense? Who (M (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28548M))plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it? Or who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock?
8I am not speaking these things (N (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28549N))according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things?
9For it is written in the Law of Moses, "(O (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28550O))YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING " God is not concerned about (P (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28550P))oxen, is He?
10Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, (Q (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28551Q))for our sake it was written, because (R (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28551R))the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.
11(S (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28552S))If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?
12If others share the right over you, do we not more? Nevertheless, we (T (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28553T))did not use this right, but we endure all things (U (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28553U))so that we will cause no hindrance to the (V (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28553V))gospel of Christ.
13(W (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28554W))Do you not know that those who (X (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28554X))perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share from the altar?
14So also (Y (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28555Y))the Lord directed those who proclaim the (Z (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28555Z))gospel to (AA (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+9&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28555AA))get their living from the gospel.

ed2
Dec 5th 2009, 03:57 AM
sorry steve for misunderstanding your post....i totally agree that we have a responsibility to help financially our pastors (elders/teachers/bishops/shepherds or whatever else they are called)

and while we are talking about giving, i personally don't like the idea of passing around an offering plate so everyone present can see who gives and don't give...where ever did we get this idea from? i dunno..maybe someone down the line got a "new" revelation from god...seems like that is the answer for a lot of junk that goes on these days...

anyway, god bless

Sirus
Dec 5th 2009, 04:02 PM
In short there aren't any... as you might have noticed in all of the verses posted before hand there as no church treasury or anything of that nature to start with. I posted 5 passages ;)
Who said anything about a church treasury or anything of that nature?

JWayne
Dec 5th 2009, 04:08 PM
What is so sad is that it is being argured about giving a mere 10%, when everything we have is God's in the first place. God gives us everything we have and we can't let go of even 10%? without making such a fuss over it?

Servant89
Dec 6th 2009, 05:46 PM
What is so sad is that it is being argured about giving a mere 10%, when everything we have is God's in the first place. God gives us everything we have and we can't let go of even 10%? without making such a fuss over it?

Some like to measure others relative to their own man-made righteousness. We do not boast about the law, especially man-made laws. The real issue about tithing deals with teaching as doctrines, commandments of men, something that upsets the Lord greatly. That is the issue.

We are free to give as we purposed in our hearts. If we purposed in our hearts to give 7.9% or 13.4%, either one, is a beatiful thing. Because God loves the cheerful GIVER. Those that tithe, PAY tithes, they do not GIVE them because it is not theirs to give, they do it because they believe they are robbing God if they do not do it. We can not give what does not belongs to us. If 10% belongs to God, we are not giving it, we are PAYING it. God is interested in cheerful GIVERS, not grudginly PAYERS of tithes that do it out of necessity.

One day, God will let you know what we give in secret. Doesn't that make you happy? That is going to be a happy day, don't you think?

Shalom

ed2
Dec 7th 2009, 04:16 AM
Some like to measure others relative to their own man-made righteousness. We do not boast about the law, especially man-made laws. The real issue about tithing deals with teaching as doctrines, commandments of men, something that upsets the Lord greatly. That is the issue.

We are free to give as we purposed in our hearts. If we purposed in our hearts to give 7.9% or 13.4%, either one, is a beatiful thing. Because God loves the cheerful GIVER. Those that tithe, PAY tithes, they do not GIVE them because it is not theirs to give, they do it because they believe they are robbing God if they do not do it. We can not give what does not belongs to us. If 10% belongs to God, we are not giving it, we are PAYING it. God is interested in cheerful GIVERS, not grudginly PAYERS of tithes that do it out of necessity.

One day, God will let you know what we give in secret. Doesn't that make you happy? That is going to be a happy day, don't you think?

Shalom


that's a big AMEN!!!!!!