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IsItLove?
Dec 4th 2009, 09:09 AM
Wedding clothes


Mat (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=22#12) 22:12 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=22&verse=12)http://net.bible.org/images/advanced.gif
And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ But he had nothing to say.


What are wedding clothes they representative of?

Who are the people attending the wedding feast of the lamb without them?

How did they get in if they are not believers?

What is the outer darkness, is it related to hell or is it somehow related to heaven or is there someplace in between?

notuptome
Dec 4th 2009, 12:24 PM
Wedding clothes


Mat (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=22#12) 22:12 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=22&verse=12)http://net.bible.org/images/advanced.gif
And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ But he had nothing to say.


What are wedding clothes they representative of?
The righteousness of Christ


Who are the people attending the wedding feast of the lamb without them?
The self righteous, religious but lost crowd.


How did they get in if they are not believers?
The call to salvation goes forth to all men. Those who enter other than by the door who is Christ are theives and robbers and are cast out.


What is the outer darkness, is it related to hell or is it somehow related to heaven or is there someplace in between?
Yes, the outer darkness is absent the presence of God whose abode is Light.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Frances
Dec 4th 2009, 05:58 PM
notuptome, I agree with your answers.

John146
Dec 4th 2009, 09:53 PM
Wedding clothes


Mat (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=22#12) 22:12 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=22&verse=12)http://net.bible.org/images/advanced.gif
And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ But he had nothing to say.


What are wedding clothes they representative of?I believe that answer is shown here:

Rev 19
7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Of course, we are not righteous in and of ourselves (though our faith is counted as righteousness).

2 Cor 5
20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Who are the people attending the wedding feast of the lamb without them?Those who initially accept the invitation but then don't say "I do" at the altar, so to speak. I think the parable of the sower illustrates that concept. You have people who have interest in the gospel for awhile but then other things (Satan's deception, riches, cares of the world, fear of persecution, etc.) get in the way and they don't end up making a full commitment to Christ as their Lord and Savior. So, as a result they end up not having their wedding clothes on.


How did they get in if they are not believers?Because all are invited.

Matt 22
9Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

As I alluded to earlier, some initially accept the invitation but then don't go through with their vows, so to speak.


What is the outer darkness, is it related to hell or is it somehow related to heaven or is there someplace in between?Eternal separation from God, which Revelation calls the lake of fire. I'm not sure that it's speaking of literal darkness there, but probably refers to outer spiritual darkness. Hopelessness. It results in the weeping and gnashing of teeth because people will know that they had their chance and gave it up and won't ever get another chance to be with God for eternity.

crossnote
Dec 5th 2009, 05:30 AM
Our own fig leaves will wither, His righteousness must be our cover, pictured here...
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
(Gen 3:21)

IsItLove?
Dec 5th 2009, 08:49 AM
I believe that answer is shown here:

Rev 19
7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Of course, we are not righteous in and of ourselves (though our faith is counted as righteousness).

So we all should be arrayed in righteousness?



2 Cor 5
20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

How are we made the righteousness of God?




Those who initially accept the invitation but then don't say "I do" at the altar, so to speak. I think the parable of the sower illustrates that concept. You have people who have interest in the gospel for awhile but then other things (Satan's deception, riches, cares of the world, fear of persecution, etc.) get in the way and they don't end up making a full commitment to Christ as their Lord and Savior. So, as a result they end up not having their wedding clothes on.

Are the real believers only those who produce the fruit of righteousness?

Pro (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Pro&chapter=11#30) 11:30 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Pro&chapter=11&verse=30)http://net.bible.org/images/advanced.gif
The fruit of the righteous is like a tree producing life
Phi (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Phi&chapter=1#11) 1:11 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Phi&chapter=1&verse=11)http://net.bible.org/images/advanced.gif
filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ to the glory and praise of God.



As I alluded to earlier, some initially accept the invitation but then don't go through with their vows, so to speak.


Would that be living righteous lives before God?

virgilio viclar
Dec 5th 2009, 01:53 PM
Wedding clothes


Mat (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=22#12) 22:12 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=22&verse=12)http://net.bible.org/images/advanced.gif
And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ But he had nothing to say.


What are wedding clothes they representative of?

Who are the people attending the wedding feast of the lamb without them?

How did they get in if they are not believers?

What is the outer darkness, is it related to hell or is it somehow related to heaven or is there someplace in between?



W edding Clothes
I would to illustrate first the picture of the man without wedding clothes as drawn in book of ;
Zec 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
The second picture are those people attending the party with wedding garment
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Zec 3:4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
Zec 3:5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
The guest that was thrown outside was representing;
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
AND THE FINAL IS A SORRY SCENARIO;
Luk 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

notuptome
Dec 5th 2009, 08:23 PM
Of course, we are not righteous in and of ourselves (though our faith is counted as righteousness).

2 Cor 5
20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Lord. We are indeed clothed in His righteousness and made to stand faultless before the Father. Jude 24


Those who initially accept the invitation but then don't say "I do" at the altar, so to speak. I think the parable of the sower illustrates that concept. You have people who have interest in the gospel for awhile but then other things (Satan's deception, riches, cares of the world, fear of persecution, etc.) get in the way and they don't end up making a full commitment to Christ as their Lord and Savior. So, as a result they end up not having their wedding clothes on.
Your take on this seems to teach that something must be added in the form of works to the finished work of Christ. Grace is sufficient to save and grace alone received by faith. The parable of the sower can be seen as teaching that there are many who are saved but because of their circumstances produce very little no fruit. The parable of the talents would seem to confirm that the only ones who are lost are those who do nothing with the word of God when they hear it. The Lord is not willing that any should perish and He desires all to be saved but the call is not open ended. Today is the day of salvation.


Eternal separation from God, which Revelation calls the lake of fire. I'm not sure that it's speaking of literal darkness there, but probably refers to outer spiritual darkness. Hopelessness. It results in the weeping and gnashing of teeth because people will know that they had their chance and gave it up and won't ever get another chance to be with God for eternity.
Why is it not literal darkness? Those that go out from the presence of God are bound to be in eternal darkenss. There are many agonies in eternal condemnation. Absence of the presence of God and the total terror it represents is certainly part of it. Fire and all kinds of physical torment but also emotional torment.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

IsItLove?
Dec 6th 2009, 01:20 AM
Our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Lord. We are indeed clothed in His righteousness and made to stand faultless before the Father. Jude 24

Your take on this seems to teach that something must be added in the form of works to the finished work of Christ. Grace is sufficient to save and grace alone received by faith.
Some points of clarification.

Jesus works done for our salvation where done under the law.
So our works should not be done under the law.

But the bible is clear that our justification is still by works.

Not the works of the law but rather the works of faith, and that through these works of faith, our faith (most necessary for salvation) is perfected.

So we see the necessity of works for the perfection of faith.




Why is it not literal darkness? Those that go out from the presence of God are bound to be in eternal darkenss. There are many agonies in eternal condemnation. Absence of the presence of God and the total terror it represents is certainly part of it. Fire and all kinds of physical torment but also emotional torment.

For the cause of Christ
Roger My understanding from scripture is that there are levels in Hell and that some are considered guilty enough to be thrown into the fiery hell.

arcadia
Dec 6th 2009, 07:43 AM
Wedding clothes are are the clothes of REPENTANCE.

arcadia
Dec 6th 2009, 07:46 AM
W edding Clothes
I would to illustrate first the picture of the man without wedding clothes as drawn in book of ;
Zec 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
The second picture are those people attending the party with wedding garment
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Zec 3:4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
Zec 3:5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
The guest that was thrown outside was representing;
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
AND THE FINAL IS A SORRY SCENARIO;
Luk 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

Great Scriptures. They speak of Repentance.

IsItLove?
Dec 6th 2009, 08:00 AM
Wedding clothes are are the clothes of REPENTANCE.
All biblical support I know of says they are about being clothed in righteousness.
Clearly repentance must happen before righteousness, but I see no reason to equate the wedding clothes with repentance.

Can you support your statement with scripture?

What I see as the clothes of repentance is sackcloth, even sometimes black cloths and dust and ashes.

Beckrl
Dec 6th 2009, 10:22 PM
The righteousness of Christ
I did think of the verse in Revelation, but would say it gives more insight into the faithfulness of them in tribulation.

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.(Revelation 7:14)


The self righteous, religious but lost crowd.

Well put.


The call to salvation goes forth to all men. Those who enter other than by the door who is Christ are theives and robbers and are cast out.

Again well put.



Yes, the outer darkness is absent the presence of God whose abode is Light.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

:agree::thumbsup:

kay-gee
Dec 7th 2009, 01:47 PM
Wedding clothes


[QUOTE]
(http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=22#12)Mat (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=22#12) (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=22#12)22:12 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=22&verse=12)http://net.bible.org/images/advanced.gif
And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ But he had nothing to say.


What are wedding clothes they representative of?

Who are the people attending the wedding feast of the lamb without them?

How did they get in if they are not believers?
(http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Mat&chapter=22#12)
You'll find your answer in Galations 3:27

This is why it is VITALLY important to obey Christs gospel (Mark 16:16)

Hope this helps

all the best...

notuptome
Dec 7th 2009, 02:11 PM
Some points of clarification.

Jesus works done for our salvation where done under the law.
So our works should not be done under the law.

But the bible is clear that our justification is still by works.

Not the works of the law but rather the works of faith, and that through these works of faith, our faith (most necessary for salvation) is perfected.

So we see the necessity of works for the perfection of faith.
Works are the product of faith not the producer of faith. The faith of Christ is perfect apart from our works. Faith comes from hearing the word of God not by our works. We are justified by His grace, His faith and not by our works.



My understanding from scripture is that there are levels in Hell and that some are considered guilty enough to be thrown into the fiery hell.
All who are in hell are cast into the lake of fire at the GWT judgement. Death and hell are cast into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet are. There is no comfort in hell. There is no escape from hell. I fail to see the merit in different levels of hell.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

IsItLove?
Dec 7th 2009, 03:22 PM
Jam (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Jam&chapter=2#22) 2:22 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Jam&chapter=2&verse=22)http://net.bible.org/images/advanced.gif
You see that his faith was working together with his works and his faith was perfected by works.