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Athanasius
Dec 7th 2009, 01:11 AM
Two videos by Matt Chandler, the second not so related except maybe for consequences.

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XzTm3W2Ai7s

This is the relationship advice / comments I hear constantly:

--> True love waits
--> Don't search
--> Be content with God and he'll send you your soul mate
--> You'll experience nothing but hurt if you look for a mate (notice the implication is that we will experience less if we don't)
--> We all have a 'soul mate' ('the one')
--> If he doesn't respect you always, he doesn't love you (notice my sexist language)

I'm just wondering one thing: is this true?

Moxie
Dec 7th 2009, 02:54 AM
This is the relationship advice / comments I hear constantly:

--> True love waits
--> Don't search
--> Be content with God and he'll send you your soul mate
--> You'll experience nothing but hurt if you look for a mate (notice the implication is that we will experience less if we don't)
--> We all have a 'soul mate' ('the one')
--> If he doesn't respect you always, he doesn't love you (notice my sexist language)

I'm just wondering one thing: is this true?

1. Yes, true.........but let me ask--if it doesn't wait does it make it any less true for the passing season?
2. Not sure what may be wrong with searching....are you being prayful as well?
3. God's not a vending machine
4. God being God can put your future mate anywhere whether you are searching or not.
5. Possibly...maybe more than one. Look at couples who have had spouses die and find another mate and are just as happy and fulfilled.
6. Respect and Love are different and shown in different ways.

MadRabbit
Dec 7th 2009, 04:27 AM
--> True love waits
--> Don't search
--> Be content with God and he'll send you your soul mate
--> You'll experience nothing but hurt if you look for a mate (notice the implication is that we will experience less if we don't)
--> We all have a 'soul mate' ('the one')
--> If he doesn't respect you always, he doesn't love you (notice my sexist language)

I'm just wondering one thing: is this true?

1. I am assuming this ambigous statement of "True love waits" is referring to waiting until marriage to have sex. The answer to whether that is true or not depends entirely on how much you value waiting until marriage to have sex. Personally, I don't place much value on marriage. The depth of my relationships is determined by the feelings I share with a partner and the depth of our commitment for one another. This, for me, is what defines a relationship, not simply performing a social tradition.

Another way one can take the statement is that he is referring to the fact that if someone is genuinely into you as a person and not as a sexual object for satisifying lust, they are going to wait until you are ready for sexual intimacy and not going to be taken back or apply any pressure if your not. In that sense, it's very much true.

2 and 3. Well, if one chooses to spend his entire life sitting inside a basement, it's highly probable that a soulmate isnt going to find them. But I doubt that extreme case is what he is talking about. From what I see, the advice is simply saying "Just live your life and fate will eventually bring the right person." In a sense, I suppose that's true. Actively searching for a partner can be a dangerous thing, because we often project feelings into a relationship that we want to be there, but may not neccessarily be there on their own. Connections with human beings have to form naturally. It can't be forced, pushed, or created on a whim.

4. Following what I said above, I would say it's more likely that you will be hurt if you make a determined effort to find someone, but that's far from an absolute and at the same time, spending your life on the couch with a bag of cheetos isnt going to do anything.

To sum up my thoughts, be open to meeting people, live your life, do things, be around people, but don't actively search.

5. I don't believe in the idea of "the One". The thought of that when your single is often depressing. Statistically speaking, I think there is roughly 500,000 compatible people for each of us. Or some other large number close to that. I read the article awhile back and can't remember the specifics. Regardless, the point is I've had quite a few loves in my short life so far and believe I am going to have quite a few more before I die. None of them were any less genuine or real then the others.

6. You can respect someone without loving them, but can't love someone without respecting them.

bambu420
Dec 7th 2009, 10:47 AM
Gotta agree with Moxie and MadRabbit with 2,3,4,5 and 6.I agree that true love genuinly is patient no matter what you're "seeking" from the person, be it sex *in the context of marriage*, romance, whatever.I believe (#4) that if you go out with the intention of feeling "hurt" if you don't succeed in the love game you're just making things harder for yourself.Hurt/Failure will be there but whenever you get knocked down you need to get back up and be positive, no matter what you're pursuing.How intensly you pursue love will determine your attitude towards failure I think.It's a mindset I think.One needs to remember that failure more than often comes before success.
Funny enough I was dwelling on these same questions this weekend!I always remember this saying "God helps those who help themselves".
Many successful people don't gain success by "chance".

IsItLove?
Dec 7th 2009, 11:07 AM
Changed to "No Comment"

tango
Dec 7th 2009, 11:38 AM
This is the relationship advice / comments I hear constantly:

--> True love waits
--> Don't search
--> Be content with God and he'll send you your soul mate
--> You'll experience nothing but hurt if you look for a mate (notice the implication is that we will experience less if we don't)
--> We all have a 'soul mate' ('the one')
--> If he doesn't respect you always, he doesn't love you (notice my sexist language)

I'm just wondering one thing: is this true?

1) "True love waits" can be interpreted in a few ways. It can refer to waiting until marriage before getting physically intimate, or it can refer to waiting for "the right person" to settle down with rather than grabbing the first vaguely suitable person who passes. I use "the right person" loosely, which I'll come on to.

2/3) I've known people who have been desperately searching for someone. Usually that kind of outlook is selfish, people want a partner for themselves rather than for a relationship of equals. A lot of the time it seems to relate to low self-esteem, with people feeling somehow less of a person if they don't have a boy/girlfriend.

That said there's a big difference between searching and being available. I don't see anything wrong with taking steps to help find a partner, as long as it's done for the right reasons. If you would be happy knowing your partner had the same motives you had, that's probably a good sign. I don't know many people who would be happy at the thought they were nothing more than this season's arm candy to impress others.

4) I always found that when I was actively looking for "someone special" I never got anywhere. Probably because I was looking for the wrong reasons, and when I was busy looking for someone with specific characteristics I was oblivious to possibilities relating to people who didn't possess those characteristics. So while I was chasing unsuitable people I was ignoring people who might have been suitable, which can lead to hurt.

I wouldn't say it always leads to hurt, it's possible to be looking for someone with righteous motives or with shallow motives.

5) The idea that there is "the one" for each of us is something I think is very dangerous. I wouldn't condone "settling" for someone unsuitable but at the same time I think the idea there is one and only one perfect match for each of us leaves us constantly looking over our shoulders. We can determine whether someone is a suitable partner for us (and in this context I'm talking marriage and an exclusive lifelong relationship) but the idea there is one and only one person who is right for us leaves us in a state of constant fear that, no matter how compatible we are with our current boy/girlfriend, there's someone else out there somewhere who is even better. It seems to me that we can't possibly commit the rest of our lives to someone who might not be "the one", so it makes getting married either impossible or a monumental gamble.

Instead of looking to see if there is "the one" I'm more inclined to ask whether the decision to get married is one you're willing to live with for the rest of your life. If the thought strikes a paralysing fear into you that's probably not a good sign. If it strikes the kind of fear that makes you seriously stop and think whether you're ready for that kind of commitment, that's a good thing.

RabbiKnife
Dec 7th 2009, 03:02 PM
The good news is, YES, WE ALL HAVE A SOUL MATE!!!

His name is Jesus, and we don't have to search for him.


Once that relationship is established, finding a life partner is a matter of choice, because God loves us that much.

Loving someone is a conscious act of the will, not the emotional reaction of feelings.

bambu420
Dec 7th 2009, 03:22 PM
^^Sorry dude gotta disagree...can't see how jesus is our "Soul Mate"..."Life Partner" sounds a lil more correct IMO

Athanasius
Dec 7th 2009, 04:50 PM
^^Sorry dude gotta disagree...can't see how jesus is our "Soul Mate"..."Life Partner" sounds a lil more correct IMO

Semantics ;) I like Rabbi's reply.

Athanasius
Dec 7th 2009, 05:06 PM
1. I am assuming this ambigous statement of "True love waits" is referring to waiting until marriage to have sex. The answer to whether that is true or not depends entirely on how much you value waiting until marriage to have sex. Personally, I don't place much value on marriage. The depth of my relationships is determined by the feelings I share with a partner and the depth of our commitment for one another. This, for me, is what defines a relationship, not simply performing a social tradition.

It could mean waiting in any number of ways, however, all of them sexual (and most people by this mean sex) and yes, all of them until marriage. It's not a catch-phrase I would have came up with -- I disdain it.

For as much as I disdain the catch-phrase, I think with some clarification it can be improved upon. First of all, I do not believe it's always true that 'true love waits' (whatever 'true love' is); why? We're sinners, this is a fallen world, we make mistakes, bad decisions. Now, a 'bad decision' is a once in a while thing and to be repented of: it does not happen repeatedly. The reality is that our love for our spouse is necessarily a reflection of our love for God (our love begin derivative of God's love, as in the book of 1 John). In this, the love (I'm not going to use the phrase 'true love') we have for others is not dependent upon marriage as a social convention, but in two other things, one of which does envelope marriage: 1) our love for God and 2) our love for the person for who they are as made in the image of God. Now, if we love God and if we love the other person, then it's clear: we're to get married. It's not so much a social convention as it is a biblical mandate, part of God's created order.

I think marriage is an outward action - biblical, at that - that is significant in that it shows others, everyone in fact, that we love someone to the point where we could not live without them (different from we could live with them). My feelings for the other person, while significant in the beginning of a relationship always subside -- they are secondary. It is my choice to remain committed in tandem with our (both of our) commitment to God that is the 'glue' of the relationship -- Jesus is central, things might not be easy, but God's in it. Thus, my feelings do not determine my relationship nor level of commitment, but the opposite. Our love for God and choice determines our feelings, at least, most of the time.



Another way one can take the statement is that he is referring to the fact that if someone is genuinely into you as a person and not as a sexual object for satisifying lust, they are going to wait until you are ready for sexual intimacy and not going to be taken back or apply any pressure if your not. In that sense, it's very much true.

This is true, however, one must wait not until until 'you' or 'they' are ready (because it doesn't take long to 'get ready'), but until 'you' and 'they' are married.



2 and 3. Well, if one chooses to spend his entire life sitting inside a basement, it's highly probable that a soulmate isnt going to find them. But I doubt that extreme case is what he is talking about. From what I see, the advice is simply saying "Just live your life and fate will eventually bring the right person." In a sense, I suppose that's true. Actively searching for a partner can be a dangerous thing, because we often project feelings into a relationship that we want to be there, but may not neccessarily be there on their own. Connections with human beings have to form naturally. It can't be forced, pushed, or created on a whim.

It's like I said in another thread: don't go grocery shopping when you're hungry. Mind you, I'm not so much a fan of fate.



6. You can respect someone without loving them, but can't love someone without respecting them.

True enough :)

Athanasius
Dec 7th 2009, 05:09 PM
1. Yes, true.........but let me ask--if it doesn't wait does it make it any less true for the passing season?
2. Not sure what may be wrong with searching....are you being prayful as well?
3. God's not a vending machine
4. God being God can put your future mate anywhere whether you are searching or not.
5. Possibly...maybe more than one. Look at couples who have had spouses die and find another mate and are just as happy and fulfilled.
6. Respect and Love are different and shown in different ways.

If it doesn't wait I don't think so, no. No one's perfect, we make mistakes - I make mistakes - and while not trying to sound like I'm justifying sin or anything like that. I at the same time want to exam these ugly little catch phrases.

Athanasius
Dec 7th 2009, 05:14 PM
Gotta agree with Moxie and MadRabbit with 2,3,4,5 and 6.I agree that true love genuinly is patient no matter what you're "seeking" from the person, be it sex *in the context of marriage*, romance, whatever.

Does genuine patience preclude 'slipping'?

Athanasius
Dec 7th 2009, 05:18 PM
4) I always found that when I was actively looking for "someone special" I never got anywhere. Probably because I was looking for the wrong reasons, and when I was busy looking for someone with specific characteristics I was oblivious to possibilities relating to people who didn't possess those characteristics. So while I was chasing unsuitable people I was ignoring people who might have been suitable, which can lead to hurt.

I wouldn't say it always leads to hurt, it's possible to be looking for someone with righteous motives or with shallow motives.

I would agree with this wholeheartedly. I'll say that when I was looking I found a lot of girls, a few really big lapses in judgment and a lot of hurt. The girl I'm with now, who I'm marrying at the end of May, has been a friend for over three years -- who, I'm told, was waiting... for three years.

RabbiKnife
Dec 7th 2009, 05:20 PM
Does genuine patience preclude 'slipping'?

I'm not sure what "slipping" is...

Maybe semantics, but are we talking about succombing to sexual temptation?
Love has nothing to do with sexual temptation. The only thing is has in common is that both are issues of the will that we often sit on the back burner to the assumed priority of hormones and emotions.

Athanasius
Dec 7th 2009, 05:26 PM
I'm not sure what "slipping" is...

Maybe semantics, but are we talking about succombing to sexual temptation?
Love has nothing to do with sexual temptation. The only thing is has in common is that both are issues of the will that we often sit on the back burner to the assumed priority of hormones and emotions.

That's the question I'm really getting at, yes.

I know couple's who slept together before they were married and have been married now for 40+ years.
I know couple's who didn't and are divorced.
I know couple's who did, then vowed to stop until they were married and they are either now still married or divorced.

That's still something I'm trying to make sense of. I know it's a sin and that it does affect one's marriage significantly, however, beyond that not many things seem defined.

Moxie
Dec 8th 2009, 12:57 AM
Any sin is going to have an effect on a relationship...to what extent is going to depend on a lot of things i.e. maturity, willingness to forgive, surrender, make amends etc.

One could make the argument that, "well we are getting married anyway"...sigh. NOT a good argument. The issue here is not about being in love or level of committment. The real issue is your character and the person you desire to be for God. Will your character allow you to abstain because your character wants to and desires to please God? When your character is based on God's plumb line alone and not our own or society's then how much better are you going to be as a spouse to one another?

bambu420
Dec 8th 2009, 02:15 PM
Xel'Naga,I think genuine patience, should preclude slipping.On the other hand, we all make mistakes and "slip" from time to time..Sigh..we all can have patience when it comes to anything in this world, but sometimes, we just let temptation get the better of us.Self control is key I think.


My feelings for the other person, while significant in the beginning of a relationship always subside -- they are secondary. It is my choice to remain committed in...Thus, my feelings do not determine my relationship nor level of commitment, but the opposite.
So you're saying it is your "choice" to remain committed that determines the relationship + level of committment? *Just trying to understand and clarify*


Our love for God and choice determines our feelings, at least, most of the time.
You really got me thinking here!! But what determins choice?What makes us choose what we choose, what we like?It has to be how we feel *usually positively* towards the outcome/expectation/experience of making that choice..not so?

RabbiKnife
Dec 8th 2009, 02:56 PM
It is a trust issue.

My wife and I refrained from the temptation to engage in sexual sin before we were married. As a result, I have complete confidence in her ability to refrain from any sexual temptation now. And vice versa.

If we had engaged in sexual sin, and demonstrated to one another that we were untrustworthy, it would have caused significant problems.

Just one less obstacle to a successful marriage.

Athanasius
Dec 8th 2009, 05:40 PM
So you're saying it is your "choice" to remain committed that determines the relationship + level of committment? *Just trying to understand and clarify*

I'm saying it's a significant factor, yes.



You really got me thinking here!! But what determins choice?What makes us choose what we choose, what we like?It has to be how we feel *usually positively* towards the outcome/expectation/experience of making that choice..not so?

That's a hard question to answer. We choose things for an array of reasons. I think most of them because we believe they are the best decisions for us, no matter how difficult they be.

Athanasius
Dec 8th 2009, 05:40 PM
It is a trust issue.

My wife and I refrained from the temptation to engage in sexual sin before we were married. As a result, I have complete confidence in her ability to refrain from any sexual temptation now. And vice versa.

If we had engaged in sexual sin, and demonstrated to one another that we were untrustworthy, it would have caused significant problems.

Just one less obstacle to a successful marriage.

Ah okay, that makes sense.

Buzzword
Dec 8th 2009, 11:16 PM
So you're saying it is your "choice" to remain committed that determines the relationship + level of committment? *Just trying to understand and clarify*

Real love is choosing to act in another person's best interest, regardless of how you feel about them at a particular moment.

This is the quieter love which, while no less passionate, can't be condensed down into a Hallmark card or a Harlequin romance.

This is the real romance, the kind that couples choose and are still happy together 50+ years later.

It's acting as if you feel that original blazing emotion towards them, even if you really don't like them at the moment.
Even as both of you are communicating about how you ARE feeling at the given moment.

C.S. Lewis said it best in the marriage chapter of Mere Christianity.
If we DID continue to feel the exact same way about the person throughout life that we did in those first few days/months/years of courtship, we'd run ourselves ragged.
That intensity affects our appetites, our health, and our emotional well-being, and maintaining it would become exhausting very quickly.

Thus, God did not design us to feel that way forever.
What we choose to do when we are NOT feeling that way anymore is what separates successful and unsuccessful marriages.

Brother Mark
Dec 9th 2009, 12:14 AM
This is the relationship advice / comments I hear constantly:

--> True love waits

True. Because if we love God, then we will obey him and he says wait. So true love waits. Only a selfish love demands to be satisfied first.


--> Don't search

False. When it was time for Isaac to be married, did the family search? Yes. When it was time for Jacob to be married, was Jacob sent to find a wife? Yes.

So the truth is, if God says it's time, then search for her as Abraham (Isaac's father) and Jacob did.


--> Be content with God and he'll send you your soul mate

Well, we need to be content in all things. To me, what they are saying is akin to don't work and God will feed you. Of course we are to be content. And no doubt, God does send people together to meet. However, we have examples with Isaac and Jacob where the man or his family took an active role in searching for their mates.


--> You'll experience nothing but hurt if you look for a mate (notice the implication is that we will experience less if we don't)

Isaac was blessed and comforted when his family searched. Jacob was too, though he reaped what he had sown and was deceived in the process.


--> We all have a 'soul mate' ('the one')

There are many "the ones". Pick you one out. It's not just one person. Who knows how many people the Lord will let you pick from when the time arrives.


--> If he doesn't respect you always, he doesn't love you (notice my sexist language)

Hmmm. not sure what this means. Lack of respect is not good. If you love someone, treating them with respect goes without saying.