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View Full Version : Discussion Reconciling God's love, His power, and the existence of evil



OrderOfMelchizedek
Dec 9th 2009, 05:57 AM
Just wanted to get some feedback on a thought I've had -

We usually hear the idea that the evil in our world is a natural consequence of our freedom to choose between good and evil
But when we get to heaven there will be no evil
Does that mean that we won't have freedom of choice in heaven?
Or could God have made a world where we had free choice but there was no possibility of evil?
Because it seems to me that heaven with no free choice wouldn't really be heaven at all, so it stands to reason that it will be a world with no evil and with free choice.
So if God could have made a world like this, why not? What motivations could there be for making a world that was destined to go wrong? maybe some kind of higher purpose there? maybe the world was never supposed to go right for some reason?

any thoughts?

IsItLove?
Dec 9th 2009, 07:07 AM
Heaven is a place full of people who have already made their choice to be conformed to the nature of God in Christ Jesus.

The only free choice I see anywhere is the free choice Jesus bought for us.
Buying us freedom from our slavery to sin, and offering us the choice of who we wish to serve. To return to slavery to sin, or choose slavery to righteousness.

notuptome
Dec 9th 2009, 08:38 PM
God did create the world and man perfect and without sin. God created man to worship Him and fellowship with Him. God loved His creation. Man is made in the image and likeness of God.

Sin entered in because of Lucifer an archangel decided to be like the Most High God. Lucifer fell from heaven and could not regain his former estate. Lucifer then ruined Gods creation by causing Eve to transgress Gods word.

God cursed the earth after Adam sinned.

When God remakes the heavens and the earth they will be restored to their original sinless state.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

pekoe
Dec 10th 2009, 12:49 AM
I believe when the angels sinned, the "For Rent" signs went up in Heaven. I believe redeemed sinners will replace the fallen angels. I think we will still have free will, but choose not to sin.

Athanasius
Dec 10th 2009, 01:25 AM
We usually hear the idea that the evil in our world is a natural consequence of our freedom to choose between good and evil

In part, yes, but not wholly.



But when we get to heaven there will be no evil

Does that mean that we won't have freedom of choice in heaven?

Or could God have made a world where we had free choice but there was no possibility of evil?

I think it means we retain the ability to do good and evil, however, we would always choose to do 'good' -- we are no longer sinful, after all.

There can be no such thing as a 'free world' without the possibility of evil.

IsItLove?
Dec 10th 2009, 06:25 AM
I believe when the angels sinned, the "For Rent" signs went up in Heaven. I believe redeemed sinners will replace the fallen angels. I think we will still have free will, but choose not to sin.
HMM.
Any biblical support?

My understanding it that we are children of God.
Does the bible speak of angles being children of God?

Did you mean we are just taking their place.
But Jesus went to prepare a place for me, one that didn't exist previously from what I was thinking. Its kind of the parallel of the biblical marriage tradition where the bridegroom goes and builds a place on his fathers estate for Him and His bride.

leoxiii
Dec 10th 2009, 02:55 PM
Just wanted to get some feedback on a thought I've had -

We usually hear the idea that the evil in our world is a natural consequence of our freedom to choose between good and evil
But when we get to heaven there will be no evil
Does that mean that we won't have freedom of choice in heaven?
Or could God have made a world where we had free choice but there was no possibility of evil?
Because it seems to me that heaven with no free choice wouldn't really be heaven at all, so it stands to reason that it will be a world with no evil and with free choice.
So if God could have made a world like this, why not? What motivations could there be for making a world that was destined to go wrong? maybe some kind of higher purpose there? maybe the world was never supposed to go right for some reason?

any thoughts?

That is easy. Evil has no existence. It is a privation: the lack of good, which alone has existence because it is an attribute of God. Ergo, God created a world that was utterly good. It is not possible for Him to do otherwise. He created rational creatures who only shared in His attributes, in this case His goodness, but did not possess it in and of themselves, and could therefore turn away from those attributes. This is what we call sin: turning away from God and rejecting our share in His attributes.

pekoe
Dec 11th 2009, 04:42 PM
HMM. Any biblical support?
Nope, just an idea.


My understanding it that we are children of God.
Does the bible speak of angles being children of God?
Yes, it calls the angels Gods sons and as sons they are His children. Jb.38:7



Did you mean we are just taking their place.
But Jesus went to prepare a place for me, one that didn't exist previously from what I was thinking. Its kind of the parallel of the biblical marriage tradition where the bridegroom goes and builds a place on his fathers estate for Him and His bride.
The place being prepared is "My Fathers House". It's being built one Jew and one gentile at a time. Ep.2:19-22.