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matthew7and1
Jan 6th 2010, 11:21 PM
I was watching a movie about Moses recenlty and it got me to thinking about how well I follow the 10 Commandments in my own life.

I have no contact with my father. The eve of my wedding (2+ years ago) I caught him talking bad about me and my husband especially. He sent me a letter after the fact that basically blamed me for not forgiving him for having been an alcoholic when I was a child. And that was it. I have not called him. He has not called me.

My mother is completely toxic. I love her and try and respect her but she is mean, hateful, selfish and generally self destructive. In addition, she tries to bring you down with her. I have minimal contact with her, but whenever I do speak with her or see her, I am respectful.

Am I honoring my mother and father? I am not sure. By nature I am a very inward looking and feel like there is more that I can do, but I am striving to stay healthy... I don't know! Please offer any advice, opinion, scripture or ask any questions to help clarify if I am following this commandment.

Thanks all!!

JohnDB
Jan 6th 2010, 11:38 PM
At the proding of others...

You aren't really understanding this commandment really well.
Never mind popular theology because it really doesn't fit in this case somewhat.

In the Hebrew language their is no word for grandfather or grandmother or great-grandfather and etc....they were all father and mothers.

And Children really didn't read at that time when the Law was given....only the adults...granted they were to teach the children but...

The Patriarchs of the faith (Judaism) all had good relationships with God...somehow their "worship" which revolved around their whole live's work, play, and lifestyles pleased God so much that through them the Messiah was to come.

So...if the Israelites were to honor their forefathers they needed to behave as their forefathers who pleased God had behaved. (Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, and etc)

You speak of your parents as if they lived a lifestyle that was anything but pleasing to God.

So...if you skip a few generations to find a set of ancestors who did lead lifestyles pleasing to God....well...you are doing just fine.

Even if it is one of your own imagination and you are using spiritual forefathers of Peter, Mary, Paul, Andrew, John, Luke, Matthew, and etc.

These guys did please God...

So...if you honor them you are doing just fine...don't sweat the rest. Forgive your parents for their shortcomings and earnestly thank God for them as you are a grown woman who is close to God and concerned about pleasing him...and in part that is due to the set of parents you had...for right, wrong or indiffeeent because of their parenting styles you now are in a relationship with your Heavenly father. And that is something that is going to last forever and is truly good...even if our earthly parents weren't.

Butch5
Jan 6th 2010, 11:38 PM
I was watching a movie about Moses recenlty and it got me to thinking about how well I follow the 10 Commandments in my own life.

I have no contact with my father. The eve of my wedding (2+ years ago) I caught him talking bad about me and my husband especially. He sent me a letter after the fact that basically blamed me for not forgiving him for having been an alcoholic when I was a child. And that was it. I have not called him. He has not called me.

My mother is completely toxic. I love her and try and respect her but she is mean, hateful, selfish and generally self destructive. In addition, she tries to bring you down with her. I have minimal contact with her, but whenever I do speak with her or see her, I am respectful.

Am I honoring my mother and father? I am not sure. By nature I am a very inward looking and feel like there is more that I can do, but I am striving to stay healthy... I don't know! Please offer any advice, opinion, scripture or ask any questions to help clarify if I am following this commandment.

Thanks all!!

I would suggest that you just show love when you can, I know it sounds cliche but sometimes that is all we can do.

matthew7and1
Jan 7th 2010, 12:14 AM
Forgive your parents for their shortcomings and earnestly thank God for them as you are a grown woman who is close to God and concerned about pleasing him...and in part that is due to the set of parents you had...for right, wrong or indiffeeent because of their parenting styles you now are in a relationship with your Heavenly father. And that is something that is going to last forever and is truly good...even if our earthly parents weren't.

This whole postis most helpful and seems to good to be true! To reply to the quoted part of your text, I agree. i have totally forgiven them and am at peace with who they are as people. They didn't do everything wrong afterall! Your quote is such an eloquent way of saying what I have always felt. All things work together for the good of those who love Him. Nothing was ever more true!! I just want to be following the commandments the way I should. I long endured an unhealthy relationship with my father because I thought it was my biblical duty. When he was speaking ill of my husband, I just stopped trying and he stopped trying because I think he knew he was wrong. I told myself that biblically, I should cling to my husband forsaking all others but well.... you can see that doesn't really make me feel like I am doing the right thing! I love them both and am respectful. But boy oh boy! Talk about a bag of unhealthy!!!
Thank you!

JohnDB
Jan 7th 2010, 12:26 AM
This whole postis most helpful and seems to good to be true! To reply to the quoted part of your text, I agree. i have totally forgiven them and am at peace with who they are as people. They didn't do everything wrong afterall! Your quote is such an eloquent way of saying what I have always felt. All things work together for the good of those who love Him. Nothing was ever more true!! I just want to be following the commandments the way I should. I long endured an unhealthy relationship with my father because I thought it was my biblical duty. When he was speaking ill of my husband, I just stopped trying and he stopped trying because I think he knew he was wrong. I told myself that biblically, I should cling to my husband forsaking all others but well.... you can see that doesn't really make me feel like I am doing the right thing! I love them both and am respectful. But boy oh boy! Talk about a bag of unhealthy!!!
Thank you!

I am gonna give you this bit of acvice on a personal note...

I truly believe what I have told you is true...

BUT

On some level you do need to maintain a personal relationship with them. It isn't for them so much although they are going to benefit from it when they need elderly care. But it is for your benefit in the forgiveness aspect.

I know a woman who has no affection or respect whatsoever for her ungodly parents and as a result she is slowly moving further and further away from God because of this lack of relationship with them. Granted you don't have to be so close to them and hang out with them all the time. But being the "bigger person" sometimes isn't easy or fun....but our mental and spiritual health comes from just such relationships.

I know you will do the right thing...I don't want to be an advocate of disowning parents or advocating being without natural affection for a set of parents. And I ain't gonna do that either.

They will pay on this earth and later for their sins...they are old now and getting older...and their fears and wants are getting the best of them now as we speak. And those things will terrorize them till the day they leave this earth...meanwhile you and I will live free from such things. Pity is a good word to be used here...OK?

goykodesh
Jan 7th 2010, 12:29 AM
I think perhaps the subject here pertains more to forgiving than honoring our parents. Tayaiswife, you've posted Proverbs 3:5 - that is key to our surrender to the Lord's wisdom and also key to trusting Him. Easier said than done for sure!!

But allow me to start out on a bit of a tangent in just this post - something I've learned about prayer and the awesome power of prayer -

We hear this alot - "I will pray for you." When someone offers to pray for us, we often perceive it as a 'nice gesture.' Many times, the offerer does not follow through. But God is clear about His views on our prayer life - in Matthew 6:5-15, 2 Chronicles 7:14, Isaiah 56:7 - about who, when and why to pray. Please read these passages I listed and answer why you beleive we should pray:

(Matthew 6:5-13 "When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites, who love to pray standing in the synagogues and on street corners, so that people can see them. Yes! I tell you, they have their reward already! But you, when you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. Your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. "And when you pray, don't babble on and on like the pagans, who think God will hear them better if they talk a lot. Don't be like them, because your Father knows what you need before you ask him. You, therefore, pray like this: 'Our Father in heaven! May your Name be kept holy. May your Kingdom come, your will be done on earth as in heaven. Give us the food we need today. Forgive us what we have done wrong, as we too have forgiven those who have wronged us. And do not lead us into hard testing, but keep us safe from the Evil One. For kingship, power and glory are yours forever. Amen.'

(Matthew 6:14-15) For if you forgive others their offenses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; but if you do not forgive others their offenses, your heavenly Father will not forgive yours.

(2 Chronicles 7:14) then, if my people, who bear my name, will humble themselves, pray, seek my face and turn from their evil ways, I will hear from heaven, forgive their sin and heal their land.

(Isaiah 56:7) I will bring them to my holy mountain and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all peoples."

Many of us think or say that to pray is easy and that to do other works for God such as evangelizing, discipleship, teaching, or even studying the Bible is the real meat of work for God. Howver, I found out very quickly (in some circumstances) that to pray can indeed be very hard, yet it is what God instructs us to do. In the book "The Prayer Ministry of the Church", Watchman Nee says "To pray is the noblest work that the church can do and yet it is the least work done."

Though as we look at the references in the Bible that are connected to the verb "pray" we see a connection between all kingdom work and a relationship to God in prayer. What really happens when we pray? To pray in the authority of God is very powerful in our lives, the life of the church, and in God's Kingdom. Can you list some things you have seen God do through prayer?

A little background - The Hebrew word used most often for "pray" is "palal." The ancient Hebrew pictograph of the three letters that spell this word (pay-lamed-lamed) is a mouth (pay), a staff or a goad (lamed). The pictograph then of palal shows the mouth or tongue being directed by God. Here are some usages -

The first use of 'pray' in the Bible is in Genesis 20:7. Something very important hinges on this prayer.....

(Genesis 20:7) Therefore, return the man's wife to him now. He is a prophet, and he will pray for you, so that you will live. But if you don't return her, know that you will certainly die -- you and all who belong to you."

Read the following passages and take not on the source of what is prayed and the purpose or direction that is given:

(Job 42:8) So now, get yourselves seven young bulls and seven rams, go to my servant Iyov, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering. My servant Iyov will pray for you -- because him I will accept -- so that I won't punish you as your boorishness deserves; because you have not spoken rightly about me, as my servant Iyov has."

(Isaiah 16:12) Even when Mo'av is seen growing weary of worshipping on the high places and entering their sanctuaries to pray, they will have accomplished nothing.

(Romans 8:26) Similarly, the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we don't know how to pray the way we should. But the Spirit himself pleads on our behalf with groanings too deep for words;

To pray in the Spirit of God is to be aligned with God because you kow Him and walk with Him. A good example of this is in a marriage. A husband or wife usually know what their spouse will want, say or think when approached about any given subject - even before they ask. Thei 'walk' with each other. Knowing God adn praying His will comes by walking with Him when we read, study, memorize, meditate and pray His Word.

John 15:4 shows us what happens when we abide with Him.

(John 15:4) Stay united with me, as I will with you -- for just as the branch can't put forth fruit by itself apart from the vine, so you can't bear fruit apart from me.

The Greek word for "pray' is "proseuchomai." This word is also used in the LXX for the Hebrew word "palal." The first instance of this term in the NT is in Matthew 5:44 -

(Matthew 5:44) But I tell you, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you!

Tayaiswife - I think you know how hard it is in your circumstance to pray for your father or mother abiding in God's will - perhaps it is even harder than it is to pray for our enemies. However, if you have prayed for them, you also know how powerful God is to heal your heart from the bitterness and unforgiveness because of what you pray. There is great and mighty power of God in a relationship with him as we pray. God has given us His Word which shows us how to pray. In His word accordiing to His will is the power to bring forth His Kingdom. That that is the heart of love.

Be blessed and may God heal your heart and give you the shalom of His Kingdom.

matthew7and1
Jan 7th 2010, 12:36 AM
Another good articulation that I agree with.
While I haven't spoken with my father in 2 years, it's mainly because he is 1/2 way accross the country from me and because I lost his number (freudian loss?). Also, It generally works out great for him in his ploy to manipulate his 80 yo plus parents by being a victim of his daughter's unforgiveness. I have the same contact information as always and if he ever called I wouldn't be disrespectful. I love my father. I send him cards on his birthday and on holidays and that is where it ends. Truth be told, while I could push for a relationship with him, I know that he is much more comfortable having children that HE chooses to alienate and not speak to and then use the situation he has placed himself in as a way to manipulate others into feeling badly for him. He uses his alcoholism as an excuse for whatever CURRENT behavior that people do not approve of saying that he is unforgiven for his past mistakes when it is really what he is doing in the now.
I haven't disowned either parent, despite how easyit would make my life. My father and I mutually just don't communicate. Do you thin I should reach out more then the cards on holidays? Is maintaining the status quo wrong do you think?

goykodesh
Jan 7th 2010, 12:43 AM
Perhaps we should all pray that God heal his heart - but sometimes that comes at a great cost....

matthew7and1
Jan 7th 2010, 12:49 AM
I think perhaps the subject here pertains more to forgiving than honoring our parents.

I very much appreciated your well thought out and very helpful post. It was lovely and just a blessing to me as a reminder in life. One thing your post reminded me of is that when we feel that we cannot pray, it is what we need the most to do.

As far as it pertains to my parents I don't know. I have forgiven them. And you are so right that it is hard to pray for them sometimes because I have so accepted who they are I forget that I should pray for them to "get better" in a sense. The question is more like: "How far do I go to have a relationship with people who aren't interested?" Am I honoring my parents by being respectful and loving? Is that enough? What is enough when you have a parent who is contented not to speak with you? - My father for example never made an effort at a relationship, it was always I who called and made initiative... If i stop making the initiative, am I dis-honoring him?
It is hard to determine for me because I try and "be the panacea" as my husband says. It is a learning point for me that I can not fix everything and fufill everything for everyone. That is God's job.
So the quandry is: am I doing enough?
Your reply may have been to pray more. If that is so, you are probably right. It is never wrong to pray more!!! It is just so tough to know unequivically if you are doing the right thing and honoring God when the situation is not ideal....
Thank you so so much for your wonderful reply!

goykodesh
Jan 7th 2010, 01:01 AM
I have an idea, but I ran out of time. Please, I will post it tomorrow. In the meantime, may God's peace be with you.

roaring tiger
Jan 7th 2010, 02:39 AM
I was watching a movie about Moses recenlty and it got me to thinking about how well I follow the 10 Commandments in my own life.

I have no contact with my father. The eve of my wedding (2+ years ago) I caught him talking bad about me and my husband especially. He sent me a letter after the fact that basically blamed me for not forgiving him for having been an alcoholic when I was a child. And that was it. I have not called him. He has not called me.

My mother is completely toxic. I love her and try and respect her but she is mean, hateful, selfish and generally self destructive. In addition, she tries to bring you down with her. I have minimal contact with her, but whenever I do speak with her or see her, I am respectful.




Am I honoring my mother and father? I am not sure. By nature I am a very inward looking and feel like there is more that I can do, but I am striving to stay healthy... I don't know! Please offer any advice, opinion, scripture or ask any questions to help clarify if I am following this commandment.

Thanks all!!

Hi ,,,tayariswife,How are you?

How great is your thread,that I was attracted to give some thought about these.In all the commandment given to us by God,this the most important and second to love the Lord thy God.

Ephesian 6:1-3 Children obey your PARENTS IN THE LORD: for this is right. [what was said here is spiritual]not parents in flesh.

2]Honour the father and mother { which is the first commandment with promise;] see...other commandment has no promise at all.

3]That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth....it is prize

I took this matter as a spiritual just for a simple reasoning, why is it that now that we have faith and believe in John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that

believe on his name.In view thereof, we Have the Father, brotherJesus,But we had no mother. How did it happen that there are many children, but there is no mother.

Let as take a look on Jesus preaching;Math.12:48 But he answered and said unto him, Who is my mother? and Who are my brethen?

49] And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples and said, Behold my mother and my brethen.

50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven,the same is my brother and sister and mother. We will know these things after we receive One Baptizm in One Spirit.

Regarding our parents in flesh I know that you no longer need such advice, being a children of God you knew how to deal with them.

Thank you very much,with love and may God bless you./RT

goykodesh
Jan 7th 2010, 04:24 PM
I very much appreciated your well thought out and very helpful post. It was lovely and just a blessing to me as a reminder in life. One thing your post reminded me of is that when we feel that we cannot pray, it is what we need the most to do.


I just have one more thought about prayer, I posted this before, so I have quotes around it - I thnk it's appropriate here....

"Ask some believers what it took for God to get their attention, and you can begin to tally the cost. I have a friend who raised his son on God's word, but his son rebelled, turned from God, ran away from home and began hangiing out with gangs, taking drugs and engaging in all types of immoral behaviour. He was self-centered, greedy and rude. He looked like a walking corpse, white-faced with empty eyes. From his age and street inexperince, my wife and I estimated he had about a year or so of life left. You know how God got him back? The boy jumped off a moving freight train, got his foot stuck on the tie, fell on is back and broke it. The Doctors said he would never walk again. His dad thought God didn't answer his prayers and punished the boy instead.

After several weeks, we realized that God did get this boy's attention - he did repent, and turned back to God in a most beautiful way. Even while recovering he began witnessing and lifting up Jesus to other patients. He would craft these little paper oragami's with Scripture notes on them and wheel his chair over to other patients and pray with them. The thing I noticed was the change in his face. From a formally lifeless dull uncaring form of a person, he was now full of life, with color and sparkle in his eyes. He was (and still is) full of life. Later on some people from his congregation asked him if he would like prayer for healing his paralysis. His response?

"Thank you, but you're too late - God has already healed me."

So you tell me, did God answer the boy's father's prayers? Indeed, God did a greater work - He restored the entire family!

This was the prayer - "Lord, draw my child near to You, no matter what the cost." That is a difficult prayer for a parent.

However, our Rabbi Jesus said:

(Matthew 5:30) And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

matthew7and1
Jan 8th 2010, 01:39 AM
[QUOTE=goykodesh;2317940- "Lord, draw my child near to You, no matter what the cost." That is a difficult prayer for a parent.

However, our Rabbi Jesus said:

(Matthew 5:30) And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.[/QUOTE]

WOW, you really told that! what a great post and so so true. That is something that i haven't really thought about... at least not in that way. Thank you so much for sharing. I would think that this applies to ourselves as well. Praying that we be drawn closer to God no matter the cost... Thank you!

revrobor
Jan 9th 2010, 09:59 PM
You are to honor your parents because of their position not because of their actions (or failures).

matthew7and1
Jan 10th 2010, 05:13 AM
You are to honor your parents because of their position not because of their actions (or failures).

No I realize that. The question is not why, it's how to do it.. and "am I doing it?"

Thank you!

revrobor
Jan 10th 2010, 06:56 AM
No I realize that. The question is not why, it's how to do it.. and "am I doing it?"

Thank you!

The definition of Biblical love is "do the loving thing". It has nothing to do with human emotion. You need to do one of the toughest things you've ever done - put aside any anger or resentment you may feel toward your parents and do the loving thing. No matter how much others may have offended us we must remember to do what Jesus would do. Remember what Jesus said when He was asked how often we should forgive an offender - "seventy times seven". Only you know if that is where you are.