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SeekingGodNGa
Feb 2nd 2010, 04:27 AM
Does anyone know what verse I am talking about, and where it can be found??

markedward
Feb 2nd 2010, 06:53 AM
Luke 12.47-48: And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

Is this it?

chad
Feb 2nd 2010, 10:04 AM
Is it this one?

(Heb 9:7 NIV) But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance.

Firstfruits
Feb 2nd 2010, 10:40 AM
Does anyone know what verse I am talking about, and where it can be found??

With the understanding that we are all under sin until we come to Christ and when we do come to Christ we are no longer to live as we lived before we came to Jesus, then if we are not saved there is only one option if we die without repenting. If we who know the truth do not know what is sin whn we sin, then can we really say that we know the truth?

Whether we know if we have sinned or not does not excuse us.

1 Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Firstfruits

Love Fountain
Feb 2nd 2010, 02:40 PM
Romans
2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

or perhaps,

Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Hope this helps,
Love Fountain

goykodesh
Feb 2nd 2010, 05:20 PM
"Chatah" (unknown sins) are covered by the blood of Messiah. Once discovered one turns aways from that sin in repentence and praises God for the freedom from that sin's bondage.

Sanctification by any other name.

notuptome
Feb 2nd 2010, 06:26 PM
How can one sin and not know it? The law was given that man might have knowledge of sin. Adam in the garden sinned because he took of the knowledge of good and evil. No knowledge no sin if by reason of age or mental impairment. Romans 2:14 Even the Gentile who have not the law are a law unto themselves.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

FinalTrump
Feb 2nd 2010, 07:39 PM
There was a provision in the Law for Sins of Ignorance.

Lev 4:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

Lev 4:13 And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty;

Lev 4:22 When a ruler hath sinned, and done somewhat through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD his God concerning things which should not be done, and is guilty;

Lev 4:27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;

Lev 5:15 If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering:

Lev 5:18 And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.

Num 15:24 Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the goats for a sin offering.

Num 15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:

Num 15:26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.

Num 15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.

Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

Num 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

Clarke Commentary:

If a soul shall sin through ignorance - That is, if any man shall do what God has forbidden, or leave undone what God has commanded, through ignorance of the law relative to these points; as soon as the transgression or omission comes to his knowledge, he shall offer the sacrifice here prescribed, and shall not suppose that his ignorance is an excuse for his sin. He who, when his iniquity comes to his knowledge, refuses to offer such a sacrifice, sins obstinately and wilfully, and to him there remains no other sacrifice for sin - no other mode by which he can be reconciled to God, but he has a certain fearful looking for of judgment - which shall devour such adversaries; and this seems the case to which the apostle alludes, Heb_10:26, etc., in the words above quoted. There have been a great number of subtle questions started on this subject, both by Jews and Christians, but the above I believe to be the sense and spirit of the law.

JFB

If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the Lord — a soul - an individual. All sins may be considered, in a certain sense, as committed “through ignorance,” error, or misapprehension of one’s true interests. The sins, however, referred to in this law were unintentional violations of the ceremonial laws, - breaches made through haste, or inadvertency of some negative precepts, which, if done knowingly and willfully, would have involved a capital punishment.

Firstfruits
Feb 2nd 2010, 08:31 PM
There was a provision in the Law for Sins of Ignorance.

Lev 4:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

Lev 4:13 And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty;

Lev 4:22 When a ruler hath sinned, and done somewhat through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD his God concerning things which should not be done, and is guilty;

Lev 4:27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;

Lev 5:15 If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering:

Lev 5:18 And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.

Num 15:24 Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the goats for a sin offering.

Num 15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:

Num 15:26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.

Num 15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.

Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

Num 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

Clarke Commentary:

If a soul shall sin through ignorance - That is, if any man shall do what God has forbidden, or leave undone what God has commanded, through ignorance of the law relative to these points; as soon as the transgression or omission comes to his knowledge, he shall offer the sacrifice here prescribed, and shall not suppose that his ignorance is an excuse for his sin. He who, when his iniquity comes to his knowledge, refuses to offer such a sacrifice, sins obstinately and wilfully, and to him there remains no other sacrifice for sin - no other mode by which he can be reconciled to God, but he has a certain fearful looking for of judgment - which shall devour such adversaries; and this seems the case to which the apostle alludes, Heb_10:26, etc., in the words above quoted. There have been a great number of subtle questions started on this subject, both by Jews and Christians, but the above I believe to be the sense and spirit of the law.

JFB

If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the Lord — a soul - an individual. All sins may be considered, in a certain sense, as committed “through ignorance,” error, or misapprehension of one’s true interests. The sins, however, referred to in this law were unintentional violations of the ceremonial laws, - breaches made through haste, or inadvertency of some negative precepts, which, if done knowingly and willfully, would have involved a capital punishment.

Now that we are under Christ, would you say that the law of ignorant sin still stands?

Firstfruits

FinalTrump
Feb 3rd 2010, 01:35 AM
I think that it is important for the Christian to understand the Law. It is God's law and since He never changes, it still reflects His views on things. The Law to the Christian isn't just a do and don't do list of things, it goes deeper, and that is what we call the Spirit of the Law. Clarke and the JFB my favorite commentaries hit it on the head.

Everything we do is not covered by the Robe of Christ. Adamic weakness inherited are, but willful sin is not. Even if we do something impulsively there is a degree of willfulness to it that we have to deal with. Or we are just not mature enough in Christ to know we should not be doing something. When we do become aware that we should not have done something, it may require some sort of action on our part. Our consciences should be so tender and in tune with Christ as we grow, that our sinning intentional or not, or even perceived should affect us, and should make us run to the Heavenly throne and to anyone we hurt and ask for forgiveness.

This is what is called "spots" or "wrinkles" on our Robe. Back in the Law they were required to sacrifice, we as Christians have it spelled out for us how to "wash our robes in the blood of the lamb."

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Servant89
Feb 5th 2010, 09:40 AM
Now that we are under Christ, would you say that the law of ignorant sin still stands?

Firstfruits

Two verses need to added to the list. Num 15:30 and Acts 13:39

Num 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

The only things that the law of Moses did not cover was that the people could not be justified for sins committed on purpose, with full knowledge of the law. There is no sacrifice in Moses law to cover for that or that can justify people that did that. If that still stands today, we are all dead meat. But thank God for his goodness, it is written:

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

It is ok to shout for joy.

Shalom