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HisWill
Feb 20th 2010, 09:44 PM
Hi
I know there have been thousands of posts regarding the Sabbath. I have spent quite some time looking for an answer for my question below....

Let me start by saying I do not have a complete conviction in my heart regarding whether we (non Jewish Christians) should keep the Sabbath or not. Having said that; I am probably 90% sure, that God does not expect us to keep the Sabbath, after studying the Scriptures and posts that were both for, and against, keeping the Sabbath.

So my post is not directed to those who believe we should keep the Sabbath – I spent hours reading the posts and I think I read most of the awesome reasons why you think Christians should still keep the Sabbath.

I would like to ask those, who like me, believe it is not required to keep the Sabbath, this question: what does Jesus mean in Matt 24:20: Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.

...why does Jesus specifically mention the Sabbath here? Why does it matter if these events occur on the Sabbath or not – if the Sabbath is not to be kept?

As mentioned, this is probably the only Scripture that is causing me not to have a 100% conviction regarding the Sabbath (not keeping the Sabbath).

God bless.

markedward
Feb 21st 2010, 01:00 AM
The prophecies contained in Matthew 24 were about events in the first-century. You can see Jesus' references to the nation of Judea, to the city of Jerusalem, and the Second Temple in Jerusalem. If you go to Luke 21 you can see the gospel of Luke's version of Jesus' prophecies, where Jesus says that the prophecies were "days of vengeance" and "wrath against this people". The "this people" that Jesus refers to are the Jews in Judea during the first-century. This is why Jesus specifically says "pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath", because, if God's wrath came against the Jews on a Sabbath day, they would not be allowed to escape Jerusalem because of their obligation to follow the Law.

Sirus
Feb 21st 2010, 01:05 AM
but they would not be allowed to escape because of the wrath anyway

HisWill
Feb 21st 2010, 06:56 PM
Yeah, thanks markedward for pointing that out to me.

billy-brown 2
Feb 24th 2010, 08:39 PM
Hi
I know there have been thousands of posts regarding the Sabbath. I have spent quite some time looking for an answer for my question below....

Let me start by saying I do not have a complete conviction in my heart regarding whether we (non Jewish Christians) should keep the Sabbath or not. Having said that; I am probably 90% sure, that God does not expect us to keep the Sabbath, after studying the Scriptures and posts that were both for, and against, keeping the Sabbath.

So my post is not directed to those who believe we should keep the Sabbath – I spent hours reading the posts and I think I read most of the awesome reasons why you think Christians should still keep the Sabbath.

I would like to ask those, who like me, believe it is not required to keep the Sabbath, this question: what does Jesus mean in Matt 24:20: Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.

...why does Jesus specifically mention the Sabbath here? Why does it matter if these events occur on the Sabbath or not – if the Sabbath is not to be kept?

As mentioned, this is probably the only Scripture that is causing me not to have a 100% conviction regarding the Sabbath (not keeping the Sabbath).

God bless.

HisWill,

All who are in Christ today have entered the Sabbath already--the rest of God (as taught below):


Heb. 4
1 Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
“AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,”
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS”;
5 and again in this passage, “THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.”
6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
7 He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.
9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
11 Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

billy-brown 2
Feb 24th 2010, 08:41 PM
The prophecies contained in Matthew 24 were about events in the first-century. You can see Jesus' references to the nation of Judea, to the city of Jerusalem, and the Second Temple in Jerusalem. If you go to Luke 21 you can see the gospel of Luke's version of Jesus' prophecies, where Jesus says that the prophecies were "days of vengeance" and "wrath against this people". The "this people" that Jesus refers to are the Jews in Judea during the first-century. This is why Jesus specifically says "pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath", because, if God's wrath came against the Jews on a Sabbath day, they would not be allowed to escape Jerusalem because of their obligation to follow the Law.

yep . . . that . . .^^^^

:agree:

divaD
Feb 24th 2010, 09:19 PM
This is why Jesus specifically says "pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath", because, if God's wrath came against the Jews on a Sabbath day, they would not be allowed to escape Jerusalem because of their obligation to follow the Law.


You make a very valid point here, and I agree with how you came to those conclusions. For the sake of argument, let's say this prophecy is yet future. Do the Jews of today in Jerusalem still keep the Sabbath? If so, then why couldn't they be faced with the same problem, if this were to happen on the Sabbath day sometime in the future?

markedward
Feb 24th 2010, 10:35 PM
It simply cannot be a future prophecy for the following reasons:

Jesus specifically connected this prophecy to the destruction of the Second Temple. Since the Second Temple has been destroyed, it is simply impossible for the prophecy to be fulfilled a second time... unless a second Second Temple is built, which just doesn't make sense.
Jesus specifically referred to the nation of Judea (i.e. Judah). The modern nation is known as Israel (couldn't Jesus have referred to "Israel" instead of "Judah" then?), and it has no resemblence to the ancient nation of Judea/Judah. Ancient Judah was dominated by a religion centralized in the Old Covenant Temple system, and was governed by the Torah Law. Modern Israel has no centralized religious institution, and is governed by secular law.
Jesus specifically said that the prophecies were about God's divine "vengeance" and "wrath", and in context, this "wrath" and "vengeance" was being poured out because the religious leaders of the nation of Judea/Judah had advocated persecution of the prophets and saints and followers of God and Christ. While modern Israel does restrict Christian evangelism within its borders, it does not advocate murdering Christians, which is what first-century Judea/Judah was guilty of doing (see Matthew 21.33-46; 22.1-15; 23).
Jesus specifically said that the prophecies would be fulfilled within "this generation". The word "this" does not mean "that", as if referring to a distant future generation. The word "generation" refers to a group of people living in the same time frame, not people of all times and not the people of a single race. Further, whenever Jesus used the phrase "this generation" he always was referring to his contemporaries. Jesus explicitly restricts the fulfillment to his own "this generation"... hence it makes no sense to have a second fulfillment of a prophecy that was restricted to a certain time frame.

Sirus
Feb 25th 2010, 12:49 AM
From my understanding, the gates to the city were closed.
Does the city have gates today?

billy-brown 2
Feb 25th 2010, 11:36 PM
but they would not be allowed to escape because of the wrath anyway


From my understanding, the gates to the city were closed.
Does the city have gates today?

Sirus,

Don't forget that Jesus was talking to the people who was looking at the temple of that day--as taught here:

Luke 21
5 And while some were talking about the temple, that it was adorned with beautiful stones and votive gifts, He said,
6 “As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down.”
7 They questioned Him, saying, “Teacher, when therefore will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?”

And also, we as Christians live in the Sabbath (the rest!) of this verse below:

Heb. 4
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
“AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,”
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Sirus
Feb 26th 2010, 01:00 AM
Don't forget? Have I said otherwise?
I dk why you've injected Heb 4.

nzyr
Feb 26th 2010, 11:59 PM
...The prophecies contained in Matthew 24 were about events in the first-century.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

I believe it's about the end of this age and the second coming of Jesus.

Has the following happened yet markward?

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31)

ross3421
Feb 27th 2010, 12:01 PM
Hi
I would like to ask those, who like me, believe it is not required to keep the Sabbath, this question: what does Jesus mean in Matt 24:20: Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.

...why does Jesus specifically mention the Sabbath here? Why does it matter if these events occur on the Sabbath or not – if the Sabbath is not to be kept?



It is a future prophecy and the destruction of Babylon which will occur on the sabath day. A day when all the world will come to the city to worship the king but should be worshipping the of king of kings so sudden destruction will come. Rev 18 gives us detail. So no suprise the destrution comes on the sabbath day.

Scriptures give us insight that there will be sabbath days in the eternal kingdom of God whereby the world will come to worship the king of kings.

David Taylor
Feb 27th 2010, 12:19 PM
Reminder Everyone
this OP's focus is on the Sabbath, not Preterism vs Futurism regarding the Olivet Discourse.
Please don't derail the OP.

markedward
Feb 27th 2010, 09:47 PM
Has the following happened yet markward?Sorry. I cannot answer your question in this thread. (See David Taylor's post above.) If you genuinely want an answer, you could start a new thread, or simply send me a Private Message.

pekoe
Feb 27th 2010, 11:41 PM
Why would Jesus be concerned His followers wouldn't run away on the Sabbath if people were coming to kill them? He made allowance when they were picking grain when they were hungry. And, He told them to run when they saw trouble coming.