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markedward
Feb 23rd 2010, 03:28 AM
John 13.36: Simon Peter said to him, "Lord, where are you going?"

John 14.5: Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?"

John 16.5: [Jesus said,] "But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?'"
Um...?

newinchrist4now
Feb 23rd 2010, 03:32 AM
When I first read the post I read it as if all three verses were together, yet they are not. :) Easy to misinterpt them if looked at as if they are one :)

forum lurker
Feb 23rd 2010, 08:55 AM
John 13.36: Simon Peter said to him, "Lord, where are you going?"

John 14.5: Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?"

John 16.5: [Jesus said,] "But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?'"


I don't know, but perhaps in Jesus' point of view, the disciples weren't really asking "where" he was going, they were asking in a spirit of "why" are you going. In other words, they weren't looking for the answer that Jesus gave, when he talked about the Comforter.

just my 0,02..

Steven3
Feb 24th 2010, 06:49 AM
John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? (Ποῦ ὑπάγεις?) Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards. The John 16:5 phrase whither goest thou? (Ποῦ ὑπάγεις?) is identical, so there's no help in Greek.

Perhaps the contradiction is explained by Peter being willing to go to death in John 13:37..., but by John 16:6... even Peter was not willing? Seems in 3 chapters they've given up?

It's not an easy contradiction...

markedward
Feb 24th 2010, 06:59 AM
I've been reading the gospel of John lately when I noticed this. I grabbed my old New Testament class book just to see what yonder "Bible critic's" interpretation is (Mr. Ehrman), and his suggestion is that chapters 15-17 were inserted by the gospel's (alleged) redactor between chapters 14 and chapter 18. (Interestingly, chapter 14 ends with Jesus "Come now, let us leave", yet Jesus decided to spend three more chapters speaking. I would consider that easier to explain, but the "where are you going" tidbit is more difficult.)

Steven3
Feb 24th 2010, 07:11 AM
Heya Mark
I've been reading the gospel of John lately when I noticed this. I grabbed my old New Testament class book just to see what yonder "Bible critic's" interpretation is (Mr. Ehrman), and his suggestion is that chapters 15-17 were inserted by the gospel's (alleged) redactor between chapters 14 and chapter 18. What a shame. Bart Ehrman was one the great young textual hope, now his brain seems to have fallen out entirely.


(Interestingly, chapter 14 ends with Jesus "Come now, let us leave", yet Jesus decided to spend three more chapters speaking. I would consider that easier to explain, but the "where are you going" tidbit is more difficult.)Well I don't know, John returns to half chewed subjects all the time. I would think an equally important contextualising would be that 14-16 is a the paraclete section. In which case maybe the "no one asks" is positive, since they've now been told that Christ will not leave them orphans so need to ask/follow.

?

ClayInHisHands
Feb 24th 2010, 12:36 PM
I would think an equally important contextualising would be that 14-16 is a the paraclete section. In which case maybe the "no one asks" is positive, since they've now been told that Christ will not leave them orphans so need to ask/follow.

?

I could see this being the case. But the only other possibility for me is that they were more concerned about themselves and that Jesus wouldn't be there with them. And he was saying they weren't asking where He was 'really going'. They weren't understanding that He had to die and leave and that in order for them to 'truly benefit' He had to go so the Holy Spirit could come and begin the 'real work inside them'.


I don't know if I misunderstood what you were saying about Mr. Ehrman correctly. I absolutely believe that every verse and chapter are in there proper place. So therefore, I interpret it the former of which I said.


In Christ's Love