PDA

View Full Version : Faith to move Mountain of Transfiguration to Zion, Throw Zion into the Sea.



Steven3
Feb 26th 2010, 01:22 PM
This question is not about prophecy / end times - which is why it's here in Bible Chat. :) It's about faith as a grain of mustard seed. Forget about the details of how these mountain prophecies work, forget about whether the first mountain being thrown into the Sea is AD70, forget about when/how/whether Matt17 Mountain being moved to Zion happens. Forget about where "here" and "there" are in Matt 17. The question is this:


How does an individual Christian having faith as a grain of mustard seed relate to big mega events of prophecy happening?



Ps 46:2 Therefore we will not fear though the earth gives way, though the mountains be moved into the heart of the sea,


Is 54:10For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you, and my covenant of peace shall not be removed,” says the Lord, who has compassion on you.


Jer 4:24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, and all the hills moved to and fro.

Matt 17:10 He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

Matt 21:21 And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen.


Mark 11:23 Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him.

1Co13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.


Rev 6:14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.


Surely those are going to happen with or without someone having a grain of mustard seed? :hmm: Or not? Or does the grain of mustard seed somehow mean "participating" in mountain moving events?

And no, I don't have the ready answer either.
S

Firstfruits
Feb 26th 2010, 02:43 PM
This question is not about prophecy / end times - which is why it's here in Bible Chat. :) It's about faith as a grain of mustard seed. Forget about the details of how these mountain prophecies work, forget about whether the first mountain being thrown into the Sea is AD70, forget about when/how/whether Matt17 Mountain being moved to Zion happens. Forget about where "here" and "there" are in Matt 17. The question is this:


How does an individual Christian having faith as a grain of mustard seed relate to big mega events of prophecy happening?



Ps 46:2 Therefore we will not fear though the earth gives way, though the mountains be moved into the heart of the sea,


Is 54:10For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you, and my covenant of peace shall not be removed,” says the Lord, who has compassion on you.


Jer 4:24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, and all the hills moved to and fro.

Matt 17:10 He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

Matt 21:21 And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen.


Mark 11:23 Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him.

1Co13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.


Rev 6:14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.


Surely those are going to happen with or without someone having a grain of mustard seed? :hmm: Or not? Or does the grain of mustard seed somehow mean "participating" in mountain moving events?

And no, I don't have the ready answer either.
S

Faith cannot change what God said will happen, since prophecy is from God.

Firstfruits

Steven3
Mar 1st 2010, 02:44 AM
Faith cannot change what God said will happen, since prophecy is from God.

Firstfruits
So what does faith to move mountains mean if those things will happen anyway?

newinchrist4now
Mar 1st 2010, 03:03 AM
Faith to move mountains mean that anything can happen if we have enough faith, it's not about prophecy :)

roaring tiger
Mar 1st 2010, 06:23 AM
Hi!!!Steven3,

This is metaphorical and not literal things,for even you interchange it,I mean if you will even have a faith which is as big of a mountain you cannot move a mustard seed even one inch from it's place.

But in spiritual meaning, if you know the word that signify the mustard seed ["Christ is Abraham's seed"] you can pray to Father through Lord Jesus Christ.John 16:23 Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

Hope this help to clarify./RT.

Steven3
Mar 2nd 2010, 02:19 PM
Hi!!!Steven3,

This is metaphorical and not literal things,for even you interchange it,I mean if you will even have a faith which is as big of a mountain you cannot move a mustard seed even one inch from it's place.

But in spiritual meaning, if you know the word that signify the mustard seed ["Christ is Abraham's seed"] you can pray to Father through Lord Jesus Christ.John 16:23 Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

Hope this help to clarify./RT.I think you're right - and the prophetic level of meaning doesn't detract from that. But still the way "those throw into the sea" prophecies fit together (WITHOUT getting into the controversy of Last Day, AD70, dual fulfillment etc.) there's clearly a prophetic event involved in the moving of these two different mountains. So there's still a question in how having a grain of faith can 'help' prophecy fulfill. I suppose 2Pe3 "hastening the day" has the same question attached.

roaring tiger
Mar 3rd 2010, 05:41 PM
I think you're right - and the prophetic level of meaning doesn't detract from that. But still the way "those throw into the sea" prophecies fit together (WITHOUT getting into the controversy of Last Day, AD70, dual fulfillment etc.) there's clearly a prophetic event involved in the moving of these two different mountains. So there's still a question in how having a grain of faith can 'help' prophecy fulfill. I suppose 2Pe3 "hastening the day" has the same question attached.

Hi!!!Stevem3,
The way I undersood your quote,you are asking if how a grain of faith 'help' prophesy fullffill.right?There is no problem on that,God does'nt need help to do

what has been prophecise in 2Pe3.If this though happen,Ps. 46:1-4God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in touble.Therefore willnot we fear

though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried ito the midst of the sea.though the waters thereof roar and be troubled,though the mountain

shake with the swelling thereof,Se'lah.There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy placeof the most High.this refer to John 7:38

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.Acts 2:21 and it shall come to pass whosoever call on the

name of the Lord shall be saved.

Hope this help.

in love of Christ./RT.