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tmentour
Feb 27th 2010, 06:56 PM
Just wanna make sure I understand Luke 21:33=Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Am I taking this too literally? I mean eternal life means we'll stay in heaven forever, right?

notuptome
Feb 27th 2010, 07:13 PM
Just wanna make sure I understand Luke 21:33=Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Am I taking this too literally? I mean eternal life means we'll stay in heaven forever, right?
Well God is going to make a new heaven too. Any place where the devil has trod will be consumed with fervent heat and dissolve away. 2 Pet 3:10-13 Any place contaminated by sin will be destroyed and remade without sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

MaryFreeman
Feb 27th 2010, 08:07 PM
Well God is going to make a new heaven too. Any place where the devil has trod will be consumed with fervent heat and dissolve away. 2 Pet 3:10-13 Any place contaminated by sin will be destroyed and remade without sin.

For the cause of Christ
RogerExcelent answer Roger!

BroRog
Feb 27th 2010, 08:49 PM
Just wanna make sure I understand Luke 21:33=Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Am I taking this too literally? I mean eternal life means we'll stay in heaven forever, right?In this case, "heaven" isn't the abode of God, but rather the abode of the planets and stars. Jesus word here echos God's word to Israel found in Jeremiah 31:35 ff.

MaryFreeman
Feb 27th 2010, 08:58 PM
In this case, "heaven" isn't the abode of God, but rather the abode of the planets and stars. Jesus word here echos God's word to Israel found in Jeremiah 31:35 ff.

Very good!

However I am curious....

So you don't think that "Heaven" refers to the Heaven we know?

Just curious....

BroRog
Feb 27th 2010, 09:06 PM
Very good!

However I am curious....

So you don't think that "Heaven" refers to the Heaven we know?

Just curious....I'm not sure what you're asking. I think I'm tired. :)

MaryFreeman
Feb 27th 2010, 09:17 PM
I'm not sure what you're asking. I think I'm tired. :)

Before I explain.... I will say this:

I have no intention of changing or trying to change a mind that belongs to God alone....

I merely wish to pick said mind for understanding purposes....

And because I am curious about you.... my brother....

THAT BEING SAID....

I wondered what you felt the difference was when Jesus said heaven....

Or....

How do you define heaven in regards to the words of Jesus....

And why do you define it that way?

Let me try it this way....

Why do you believe Jesus meant the sky we gaze upon?

Like I said.... Just curious!

I always thought that He meant Heaven.... As in our final destination.... When He said Heaven....

I'm just curious how you reached your thoughts?

Did that help???? LOL I do have difficulty sometimes explaining myself....

MaryFreeman
Feb 27th 2010, 09:20 PM
Oh and just out of curiosity:

Revelations speaks of New Jerusalem and that we will live with Jesus forever there....

Is New Jerusalem the new Heaven?

markedward
Feb 27th 2010, 10:00 PM
Revelation 21 explicitly says that the New Jerusalem comes "down from heaven"... it can't simultaneously come down out of heaven and be heaven itself.

BroRog
Feb 28th 2010, 12:26 AM
How do you define heaven in regards to the words of Jesus....Thanks, I understand your question now. Yes, Jesus refered to the sky and the rest of the universe, when he said heaven and earth will pass away. Heaven and Earth is just another way of refering to everything that exists. We have learned from nature that this universe will degrade to an ultimate state of tapicoca pudding. (inert uniformity :) ) The Bible also teaches us that God intended that this universe be temporary. We could multiply examples like the following example from Isaiah,

Isaiah 34:4

And all the host of heaven will wear away,
And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll;
All their hosts will also wither away
As a leaf withers from the vine,
Or as one withers from the fig tree.

Butch5
Feb 28th 2010, 12:36 AM
Just wanna make sure I understand Luke 21:33=Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Am I taking this too literally? I mean eternal life means we'll stay in heaven forever, right?

Eternal life means we will be on earth forever. However, the passage is most likely speaking of the celestial bodies not the place of God's abode. The creation will pass away, it is going to be renewed.

nzyr
Feb 28th 2010, 05:40 AM
Eternal life means we will be on earth forever.
I don't believe we'll be on the earth forever.

For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: (Philippians 3:20)

I think we shall be able to go back and forth from heaven to the earth.

MaryFreeman
Feb 28th 2010, 07:39 AM
Revelation 21 explicitly says that the New Jerusalem comes "down from heaven"... it can't simultaneously come down out of heaven and be heaven itself.Interesting thought!

Why not?

MaryFreeman
Feb 28th 2010, 07:42 AM
Eternal life means we will be on earth forever. However, the passage is most likely speaking of the celestial bodies not the place of God's abode. The creation will pass away, it is going to be renewed.

Do you feel as if.... on earth forever.... Means the earth we have now?

Or are you speaking in terms of New Jerusalem?

MaryFreeman
Feb 28th 2010, 07:44 AM
I think we shall be able to go back and forth from heaven to the earth.

Why do you think this?

I mean to say....

What Scripture led you to believe this?

roaring tiger
Feb 28th 2010, 08:40 AM
Hi!!!tmentour,

Let me share of my thoughts on this thread.Eccle.1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Your topic the earth will pass away and heaven too..which earth and heaven will pass away?Hear the prophesy of Jeremiah.4:19-23

My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my heart; my heart make anoise in me;I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul the sound of trumphet, the alarm of war.

Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.

How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumphet?

For my people is foolish, they had not known me; they are scottish children, and they had none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they had no knowledge.

I beheld the earth, and,lo,it was without form,and void; and the heavens, they had no light. What heaven is this?

Deut.28:23 And the heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. [this a man's mind which is hardened.]

v.24] The Lord shall make the rain of the land powder and dust; from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.[this is the earth,our body which will be destroy.]

The Lord shall make rain powder and dust...remember the curesed made by God to the serpent...the dust shalt thou eat all the days of the life.

So, the heaven and earth will abideth forever...regarding new heaven and new earth it is we, if we had been a new man Eph.2:15.

in love of Christ./RT

Firstfruits
Feb 28th 2010, 11:36 AM
Just wanna make sure I understand Luke 21:33=Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Am I taking this too literally? I mean eternal life means we'll stay in heaven forever, right?

That is what Jesus revealed to the disciples and he explained in mor detail the same thing concering the heaven and earth, to John.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Christ message was the same, which was given by the prophets before Jesus came.

Firstfruits

Butch5
Feb 28th 2010, 01:19 PM
I don't believe we'll be on the earth forever.

For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: (Philippians 3:20)

I think we shall be able to go back and forth from heaven to the earth.

Our citizenship is in heaven noe, bcause that is where Christ is. However, when He returns He will rule from Jerusalem.

Butch5
Feb 28th 2010, 01:24 PM
Do you feel as if.... on earth forever.... Means the earth we have now?

Or are you speaking in terms of New Jerusalem?

Hi Mary,


This earth after is it renewed.


Romans 8:17-25 ( KJV )
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.


Acts 3:19-21 ( KJV )
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

MaryFreeman
Feb 28th 2010, 04:45 PM
Hi Mary,


This earth after is it renewed.


Romans 8:17-25 ( KJV )
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.


Acts 3:19-21 ( KJV )
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

I found this edifying! Thanks for sharing....

Now.... The creature to me means animals....

Do you find this so?

MaryFreeman
Feb 28th 2010, 04:53 PM
Hi!!!tmentour,

Let me share of my thoughts on this thread.Eccle.1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Your topic the earth will pass away and heaven too..which earth and heaven will pass away?Hear the prophesy of Jeremiah.4:19-23

My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my heart; my heart make anoise in me;I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul the sound of trumphet, the alarm of war.

Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.

How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumphet?

For my people is foolish, they had not known me; they are scottish children, and they had none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they had no knowledge.

I beheld the earth, and,lo,it was without form,and void; and the heavens, they had no light. What heaven is this?

Deut.28:23 And the heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. [this a man's mind which is hardened.]

v.24] The Lord shall make the rain of the land powder and dust; from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.[this is the earth,our body which will be destroy.]

The Lord shall make rain powder and dust...remember the curesed made by God to the serpent...the dust shalt thou eat all the days of the life.

So, the heaven and earth will abideth forever...regarding new heaven and new earth it is we, if we had been a new man Eph.2:15.

in love of Christ./RTSOTTISH lol.... They are SOTTISH children....

Scottish children are from Scotland....

Also I was wondering if you could share with me why you feel "and the earth that is under thee shall be iron." means man's mind which is hardened?

Butch5
Feb 28th 2010, 07:54 PM
I found this edifying! Thanks for sharing....

Now.... The creature to me means animals....

Do you find this so?


The Greek word is also translated creation. Paul is speaking of the creation.

roaring tiger
Mar 2nd 2010, 04:10 AM
SOTTISH lol.... They are SOTTISH children....

Scottish children are from Scotland....

Also I was wondering if you could share with me why you feel "and the earth that is under thee shall be iron." means man's mind which is hardened?

Greetings,

Thank you so much for correction,Yes ,it's sottish.. sorry for typing error.sis. you had gave me a free complimentary sleepless night, when you ask me to share to you what i said that

the "earth under thee shall be iron". however I ask to God to explain it to me and this is how it happened.

Because of sin...Jer. 4:22 For my people is foolish, they had "Not KNOWN ME" they are sottish children, they had none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good

they have no knowledge.

Jer. 3:25 We lie down in our shame. and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the Lord our God,we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and

not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God.

Eze. 3:7 But the house of Israel will not hearken unto thee; for they will not hearken unto me: for all the house of Israel are IMPUDENT and HARD HEARTED.

So, because of our evil deeds, God beheld the earth was without form,and void: and the heavens, they had no light; we are compare to a hard iron which symbolized

Satan.Rom. 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet. The grace of our Jesus be with you.Amen.

And the last of this,1 Pet. 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and

honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Hope this help,/RT.

Toymom
Mar 2nd 2010, 05:10 AM
Revelation 21 explicitly says that the New Jerusalem comes "down from heaven"... it can't simultaneously come down out of heaven and be heaven itself.

Exactly. Our ultimate goal and destination is not to "die and go to heaven", but to be a part of the New Jerusalem, which is God's ultimate goal as well. The common Christian concept of "heaven" is not really what the Bible tells us.

nzyr
Mar 2nd 2010, 05:17 AM
Exactly. Our ultimate goal and destination is not to "die and go to heaven", but to be a part of the New Jerusalem, which is God's ultimate goal as well. The common Christian concept of "heaven" is not really what the Bible tells us.

What church teaches what you are saying?

MaryFreeman
Mar 2nd 2010, 05:18 AM
Exactly. Our ultimate goal and destination is not to "die and go to heaven", but to be a part of the New Jerusalem, which is God's ultimate goal as well. The common Christian concept of "heaven" is not really what the Bible tells us.
Interesting!

What is it?

MaryFreeman
Mar 2nd 2010, 05:19 AM
The Greek word is also translated creation. Paul is speaking of the creation.So do you understand it to mean animals and trees.... Everything in creation? Because that's what I got....

nzyr
Mar 2nd 2010, 05:32 AM
Why do you think this?

I mean to say....

What Scripture led you to believe this?

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
(John 14:1-3)



For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
For we walk by faith, not by sight,
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:1-8)

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

roaring tiger
Mar 2nd 2010, 06:38 AM
Hi!!!MaryFreeman,

Our sister,Toymom really had given a very interesting post as printed hereunder.It also call my attention, so I decide to share my little understanding on it.

To clarify every thing surrounding this topic ,i would start first Gal.4:22 For it is written,that Abraham had two sons, the one by bondmaid,the other by a free woman.

v.24] Which things are an allegory:for these are the two covenants; the one from mount Si'nai in Arabia, which gendered the bondage, which is Agar.

v.25]For this Agar is mount Si'nai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.[this is the present christian believer.]

v.26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.[ this refer to those born again as a new man that had been freed by knowing the truth.]

This was also said by Lord Jesus in John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you, I go to prepare a place for you.

Is. 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than those of sons and of daughters; I will give them an everlasting

name, that shall not be cut off.

It was said that New Jerusalem will be descending from heaven...Let as see what is written in the bible.

Rev.21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city,the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

it was descending from heaven, but did not say it will go down to earth.So,how could we know this? Jesus, clarify in John 14;26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost

whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Sister, did you got what i mean? i'll give you some clues. John 6:62 What and if shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Jer.20:17 because he slew me not from the womb; or that my mother might had been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me.

Heb,4:14 Seeing then that we have a high priest, that is passed into the heavens,Jesus the Son of God,let us hold fast our profession.

Jesus said,It is the spirit that quickeneth;the flesh profiteth nothing:the word s that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

many blessing./RT.


[scripture says Matt.7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rend you.]



Originally Posted by Toymom
Exactly. Our ultimate goal and destination is not to "die and go to heaven", but to be a part of the New Jerusalem, which is God's ultimate goal as well. The common Christian concept of "heaven" is not really what the Bible tells us.



Interesting!

What is it?

Hi,Mary, did you got it?QUOTE/RT.

Steven3
Mar 2nd 2010, 02:11 PM
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.[/COLOR]
(John 14:1-3)Rather than being about the second coming, given the context of John 14-16 is about the Comforter this is much more likely to be about Christ coming back as/in the Comforter.
~ see also 1Jn2:1 where Christ is called the Advocate/Comforter/Paraclete.
~ see also same word "mansion" (Greek mone) is used in Jn 14:23.

MaryFreeman
Mar 2nd 2010, 05:12 PM
Hi!!!MaryFreeman,

Our sister,Toymom really had given a very interesting post as printed hereunder.It also call my attention, so I decide to share my little understanding on it.

To clarify every thing surrounding this topic ,i would start first Gal.4:22 For it is written,that Abraham had two sons, the one by bondmaid,the other by a free woman.

v.24] Which things are an allegory:for these are the two covenants; the one from mount Si'nai in Arabia, which gendered the bondage, which is Agar.

v.25]For this Agar is mount Si'nai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.[this is the present christian believer.]

v.26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.[ this refer to those born again as a new man that had been freed by knowing the truth.]

This was also said by Lord Jesus in John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you, I go to prepare a place for you.

Is. 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than those of sons and of daughters; I will give them an everlasting

name, that shall not be cut off.

It was said that New Jerusalem will be descending from heaven...Let as see what is written in the bible.

Rev.21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city,the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

it was descending from heaven, but did not say it will go down to earth.So,how could we know this? Jesus, clarify in John 14;26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost

whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Sister, did you got what i mean? i'll give you some clues. John 6:62 What and if shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Jer.20:17 because he slew me not from the womb; or that my mother might had been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me.

Heb,4:14 Seeing then that we have a high priest, that is passed into the heavens,Jesus the Son of God,let us hold fast our profession.

Jesus said,It is the spirit that quickeneth;the flesh profiteth nothing:the word s that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

many blessing./RT.


[scripture says Matt.7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rend you.]



Originally Posted by Toymom
Exactly. Our ultimate goal and destination is not to "die and go to heaven", but to be a part of the New Jerusalem, which is God's ultimate goal as well. The common Christian concept of "heaven" is not really what the Bible tells us.




Hi,Mary, did you got it?QUOTE/RT.

Yes I did RT! Thank you very much! I do appreciate your posts!