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Firstfruits
Mar 8th 2010, 03:40 PM
With regards to the following scriptures, what does it mean to be transformed? How are we transformed, and by what standard?

Rom 12:1 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=12&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Rom 12:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=12&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Eph 4:23 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=49&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Rom 6:4 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Mar 9th 2010, 10:05 AM
How are we translated into the kingdom of Christ?

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Firstfruits

ThyWordIsTruth
Mar 9th 2010, 11:08 AM
Hi Firstfruits,


With regards to the following scriptures, what does it mean to be transformed? How are we transformed, and by what standard?

Rom 12:1 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=12&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

This isn't part of your question, but I'd like to exposit this verse a little. May I draw your attention to what God requires of us as an acceptable worship unto Him. Here Scripture tells us that presenting our bodies, holy and acceptable to God, as a living sacrifice, is a reasonable service on our part.

In other words, living a sanctified and Holy life before God continually is a form of worship to Him. And Paul says this isn't even anything to be commended on our part but only a "reasonable service" unto God, in other words, a basic requirement for us as born-again believers.

Also, another verse that talks about this:
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;
1Th 4:4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor,
1Th 4:5 not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;


Rom 12:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=12&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

We are told here not to be conformed to this world. I understand that to mean do not be conformed to its standards of measuring things, of what is right and wrong, of what success means, of what is valued and sought after etc. Rather we are to get our standards from God's word alone, which represents the absolute unchanging truth throughout the ages.

if you look carefully even at the modern day church, a lot of churches have been conformed to this world, adopting its standards, its values, its practices and its beliefs. Scripture however, tells us not to do this.

Be transformed by the renewing of your mind - this comes about by getting our standards from God's word, and knowing reality as God tells us (concerning eternal life, our purpose here, our inheritance, etc.) To answer your question directly, we renew our minds by immersing ourselves to the study of God's word.

It is also important to note that the Bible says explicitly that transformation comes about by a renewal of our mind first. It does not come through a supernatural experience, from feelings, from witnessing the spectacular, but from knowing the truth from God's word. God's word is where our true transformation will begin.

ThyWordIsTruth
Mar 9th 2010, 11:18 AM
How are we translated into the kingdom of Christ?

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Firstfruits

We are translated into the kingdom of his Son when we are born again, when the Holy Spirit baptises us at the point of our regeneration and baptises us into the body of Christ.

1Co 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ
1Co 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and all were made to drink of one Spirit. l

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
Eph 2:21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.

Firstfruits
Mar 9th 2010, 11:58 AM
Hi Firstfruits,



This isn't part of your question, but I'd like to exposit this verse a little. May I draw your attention to what God requires of us as an acceptable worship unto Him. Here Scripture tells us that presenting our bodies, holy and acceptable to God, as a living sacrifice, is a reasonable service on our part.

In other words, living a sanctified and Holy life before God continually is a form of worship to Him. And Paul says this isn't even anything to be commended on our part but only a "reasonable service" unto God, in other words, a basic requirement for us as born-again believers.

Also, another verse that talks about this:
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;
1Th 4:4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor,
1Th 4:5 not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;



We are told here not to be conformed to this world. I understand that to mean do not be conformed to its standards of measuring things, of what is right and wrong, of what success means, of what is valued and sought after etc. Rather we are to get our standards from God's word alone, which represents the absolute unchanging truth throughout the ages.

if you look carefully even at the modern day church, a lot of churches have been conformed to this world, adopting its standards, its values, its practices and its beliefs. Scripture however, tells us not to do this.

Be transformed by the renewing of your mind - this comes about by getting our standards from God's word, and knowing reality as God tells us (concerning eternal life, our purpose here, our inheritance, etc.) To answer your question directly, we renew our minds by immersing ourselves to the study of God's word.

It is also important to note that the Bible says explicitly that transformation comes about by a renewal of our mind first. It does not come through a supernatural experience, from feelings, from witnessing the spectacular, but from knowing the truth from God's word. God's word is where our true transformation will begin.

Thank you ThyWordIsTruth,

I agree!

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Mar 9th 2010, 12:08 PM
We are translated into the kingdom of his Son when we are born again, when the Holy Spirit baptises us at the point of our regeneration and baptises us into the body of Christ.

1Co 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ
1Co 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and all were made to drink of one Spirit. l

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
Eph 2:21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.

Is this the same as putting on Christ? If so what is it concering Jesus that we are to put on?

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Firstfruits

ThyWordIsTruth
Mar 9th 2010, 01:37 PM
Is this the same as putting on Christ? If so what is it concering Jesus that we are to put on?

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Firstfruits

When the phrase "Put on <a person>" was used by Greek writers, its meaning is to imbibe his principles, imitate his example, copy his spirit and to become like him.

The Greeks used similar expressions and wrote similar things concerning Tarquin, Pythagoras, Plato, Socrates, etc. It's an idiom of the Greeks.

Thus to put on Christ is to follow his example, to live like him.

When read in the context of the prior 2 verses it makes perfect sense what Paul was trying to say. He contrasts walking in darkness and following after our flesh, with following after Christ.

Rom 13:12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.
Rom 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

These are very good questions you ask.

Firstfruits
Mar 9th 2010, 02:04 PM
When the phrase "Put on <a person>" was used by Greek writers, its meaning is to imbibe his principles, imitate his example, copy his spirit and to become like him.

The Greeks used similar expressions and wrote similar things concerning Tarquin, Pythagoras, Plato, Socrates, etc. It's an idiom of the Greeks.

Thus to put on Christ is to follow his example, to live like him.

When read in the context of the prior 2 verses it makes perfect sense what Paul was trying to say. He contrasts walking in darkness and following after our flesh, with following after Christ.

Rom 13:12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.
Rom 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

These are very good questions you ask.

Thanks ThyWordIsTruth,

An obvious question therefore is, what are the characteristics of Jesus that we should put on?

I know there are scriptures telling us to put on characteristics but are they the same as putting on Christ?

IE. Fruits of righteousness, The whole armour of God.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

ThyWordIsTruth
Mar 9th 2010, 04:33 PM
We can study the characteristics of Christ when we study the Gospels. He is the perfect combination (to me) of charisma, a commanding presence, gentleness, humility, love, friendship, sacrifice, strength, courage, prayerfulness, wisdom, servanthood, sensitivity to people, forgiveness, justice, mercy, forcefulness, forthrightness, etc. I don't think I can list everything down, as I learn something new each time I read the Gospels, and life's experiences also add to my understanding.

These are just his characteristics, there's his character, his values and principles etc. which you can distill when you study his teachings and his parables, and also his conversations with and even his rebuke of certain people.

Firstfruits
Mar 9th 2010, 04:56 PM
We can study the characteristics of Christ when we study the Gospels. He is the perfect combination (to me) of charisma, a commanding presence, gentleness, humility, love, friendship, sacrifice, strength, courage, prayerfulness, wisdom, servanthood, sensitivity to people, forgiveness, justice, mercy, forcefulness, forthrightness, etc. I don't think I can list everything down, as I learn something new each time I read the Gospels, and life's experiences also add to my understanding.

These are just his characteristics, there's his character, his values and principles etc. which you can distill when you study his teachings and his parables, and also his conversations with and even his rebuke of certain people.

Thanks ThyWordIsTruth,

So If we walk in the spirit and put on the whole armour of God and have the fruits of righteousness would that then be pleasing to God?

God bless you!

firstfruits

ThyWordIsTruth
Mar 9th 2010, 07:05 PM
Thanks ThyWordIsTruth,

So If we walk in the spirit and put on the whole armour of God and have the fruits of righteousness would that then be pleasing to God?

God bless you!

firstfruits

We please God when we obey his commandments. His commandments lay down for us what He expects of us, and what pleases him.

Chief of these are

1) Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.
2) Love your neighbour as yourself.

1) includes all the comandments for humble, holy and sanctified living.
2) concerns the commandments on how we should treat others and how we should carry ourselves.

The priority is 1, then 2. If we focus on 2 and forget 1, it is wrong. If we focus on 1 and forget 2, it's also wrong.

You're right that walking in the Spirit is the way God has instructed us to fulfill (1). It is the Spirit that enables us to overcome our flesh's desires and obey God.

The armor is for the purpose of resisting Satan. You're also indirectly correct in saying that it pleases God because when we resist the enemy and obey God, it pleases Him.

This e-book might help in clarifying just what Jesus requires of us:
http://www.desiringgod.org/media/pdf/books_bwjd/books_bwjd.pdf

ThyWordIsTruth
Mar 9th 2010, 07:12 PM
Firstfruits,
If you can, try to get and study this series of books.

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Life-Christ-Design-Discipleship/dp/1600060048/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

Alternatively, some people prefer the older version better because it's less "touchy feely" and deal with just the facts alone.

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Life-Christ-Classic-Discipleship/dp/0891090363

The one I linked is only the first book of a series of books used for discipleship. I have found them to be excellent for building a solid foundation on the doctrines of the Bible, and they take you step by step in a systematic way that really covers a whole lot of doctrines and clarifies a lot of things for you when you're done. They were immensely helpful to me.

I cannot recommend it highly enough.

theBelovedDisciple
Mar 9th 2010, 11:51 PM
With regards to the following scriptures, what does it mean to be transformed? How are we transformed, and by what standard?

Rom 12:1 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=12&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Rom 12:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=12&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Eph 4:23 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=49&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Rom 6:4 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

FF, be ye transformed... Correct...

now does God do this on the 'outside'

or His His Work done on the Inside....

are ye being 'transformed into a certain image that man has set up according to religious rules and regulations.. this which would produce a transformation on the 'outside'.. yet leave the 'inside' bitter and full of corruption.. as it was with the Pharisees of Jesus Day?

Where does God work at ?

the inside or outside...

this is why many say 'yes to Christ'.. yet they never know Him.. nor do they do His Will.. yet they say 'yes' to Christ...

lip service which makes you look good on the 'outside'...

Gods Work and Transformation is done on the Inside.. thru the Work of the Eternal Spirit.. the renewing of your mind... daily... and letting Him Circumcise your Heart.. this done thru the Work of the Holy Ghost... as He cuts away that hardness of heart, producing and letting you have compassion and mercy on others.. walking in Humility yet Power... His Annointing resting on you.. and In you... as You walk in Truth...

Firstfruits
Mar 10th 2010, 01:36 PM
We can study the characteristics of Christ when we study the Gospels. He is the perfect combination (to me) of charisma, a commanding presence, gentleness, humility, love, friendship, sacrifice, strength, courage, prayerfulness, wisdom, servanthood, sensitivity to people, forgiveness, justice, mercy, forcefulness, forthrightness, etc. I don't think I can list everything down, as I learn something new each time I read the Gospels, and life's experiences also add to my understanding.

These are just his characteristics, there's his character, his values and principles etc. which you can distill when you study his teachings and his parables, and also his conversations with and even his rebuke of certain people.

If the characteristics of Jesus are contained in the scripture and we put on Christ according to the gospel, then are the fruit of the spirit and the fruit of righteousness what are to put on concerning Christ's characteristics?

Galatioans 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Philippians 1:11
11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Jas 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Mar 10th 2010, 01:42 PM
We please God when we obey his commandments. His commandments lay down for us what He expects of us, and what pleases him.

Chief of these are

1) Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.
2) Love your neighbour as yourself.

1) includes all the comandments for humble, holy and sanctified living.
2) concerns the commandments on how we should treat others and how we should carry ourselves.

The priority is 1, then 2. If we focus on 2 and forget 1, it is wrong. If we focus on 1 and forget 2, it's also wrong.

You're right that walking in the Spirit is the way God has instructed us to fulfill (1). It is the Spirit that enables us to overcome our flesh's desires and obey God.

The armor is for the purpose of resisting Satan. You're also indirectly correct in saying that it pleases God because when we resist the enemy and obey God, it pleases Him.

This e-book might help in clarifying just what Jesus requires of us:
http://www.desiringgod.org/media/pdf/books_bwjd/books_bwjd.pdf

So as well as puting on His characteristics we need to obey his commands/teachings?

Thank you!

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Mar 10th 2010, 02:01 PM
FF, be ye transformed... Correct...

now does God do this on the 'outside'

or His His Work done on the Inside....

are ye being 'transformed into a certain image that man has set up according to religious rules and regulations.. this which would produce a transformation on the 'outside'.. yet leave the 'inside' bitter and full of corruption.. as it was with the Pharisees of Jesus Day?

Where does God work at ?

the inside or outside...

this is why many say 'yes to Christ'.. yet they never know Him.. nor do they do His Will.. yet they say 'yes' to Christ...

lip service which makes you look good on the 'outside'...

Gods Work and Transformation is done on the Inside.. thru the Work of the Eternal Spirit.. the renewing of your mind... daily... and letting Him Circumcise your Heart.. this done thru the Work of the Holy Ghost... as He cuts away that hardness of heart, producing and letting you have compassion and mercy on others.. walking in Humility yet Power... His Annointing resting on you.. and In you... as You walk in Truth...

To renew our mind I would say is on the inside and that which you have mentioned, but that would then show on the outside, by our life style.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Mar 12th 2010, 12:10 PM
Put on the new man!

Ephesians 4:21-24
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Longsufferer
Mar 12th 2010, 01:49 PM
For me, it is another way to say, Repent.

Firstfruits
Mar 12th 2010, 01:57 PM
For me, it is another way to say, Repent.

Would you agree that when we repent we have to change our lifestyle if it is not according to Christ?

Firstfruits