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divaD
Mar 9th 2010, 03:16 PM
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


The question is, what can be deduced from the text? While Adam and Eve were in the garden, did they ever eat of the tree of life? Personally I'm not certain, but I tend to think that they didn't. why? Because..how many times can one live for ever? Or how can one live forever then die?

Does Genesis 3:22 imply that all one has to do to live for ever is to eat of the tree of life just one time, or does it imply to live for ever, one has to eat of the tree of life continually? This is why I'm uncertain, because I can see it working either way.

Firstfruits
Mar 9th 2010, 04:08 PM
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


The question is, what can be deduced from the text? While Adam and Eve were in the garden, did they ever eat of the tree of life? Personally I'm not certain, but I tend to think that they didn't. why? Because..how many times can one live for ever? Or how can one live forever then die?

Does Genesis 3:22 imply that all one has to do to live for ever is to eat of the tree of life just one time, or does it imply to live for ever, one has to eat of the tree of life continually? This is why I'm uncertain, because I can see it working either way.

May be they did not get round to eating from it, as they were allowed to.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree Of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Firstfruits

BroRog
Mar 9th 2010, 04:15 PM
Hi David,

I can also see it working either way, though I lean toward the idea that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life continually. The only restricted tree was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. And so it would seem as if Adam and Eve had at least the opportunity to eat from the Tree of Life, but whether they actually did is unclear.

Firstfruits
Mar 9th 2010, 04:19 PM
Hi David,

I can also see it working either way, though I lean toward the idea that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life continually. The only restricted tree was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. And so it would seem as if Adam and Eve had at least the opportunity to eat from the Tree of Life, but whether they actually did is unclear.

From the following it seems as though they had not yet done so.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Firstfruits

BroRog
Mar 9th 2010, 04:23 PM
From the following it seems as though they had not yet done so.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

FirstfruitsI think it can be read either way, don't you?

divaD
Mar 9th 2010, 04:41 PM
I think it can be read either way, don't you?


BroRog, Gen 3:22 is indeed an interesting verse. Let's look at what happened when Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden tree. Did they have to continually eat from it in order to die, or did they only have to eat from it just one time in order to die, or did they/we die, because they/we no longer had access to the tree of life?

I believe that this would be correct "they only have to eat from it just one time in order to die". But at the same time, this can also be correct "they/we die, because they/we no longer had access to the tree of life".

And then, it could also be correct, if Adam and Eve only had to eat of the forbidden tree one time in order to die, then the same could be said about the tree of life..one only needs to eat of it one time in order to live forever.

The question is, what was the tree of life doing in the garden in the first place, especially considering it wasn't forbidden at the time?

Firstfruits
Mar 9th 2010, 04:49 PM
I think it can be read either way, don't you?

If they have eaten from the tree then according to God they would have everlasting life.

Firstfruits

RogerW
Mar 9th 2010, 08:56 PM
Since the tree of life was not forbidden, why wouldn't they have eaten from it before they disobeyed God? Prior to death entering in through their disobedience, there is no reason to believe they could not have eaten continually from the tree and lived forever. The tree of life was only blocked from them after they disobeyed God...why? Because now they lived in bodies of decay and death, so in His mercy God barred the way to the tree of life so they would not live forever in mortal, corruptible bodies of death.

Many Blessings,
RW

holyrokker
Mar 9th 2010, 09:45 PM
So is it safe to infer that had they NOT eaten of either the Tree of Life, or the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that they still would've died (physical death)?

I'm thinking that eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge is what separated them from fellowship with God, which was spiritual death.

Being denied access to the Tree of Life is what prevented eternal life, and limited them to mortality.

Zack702
Mar 10th 2010, 04:17 AM
What I allways wondered is what does "it" mean in the verse below. At first glance sure "it" looks like we would be eating the ground. But a closer look makes me wonder.

Genesis 3
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

The KJV version shows that God said I commanded you shall not eat of "it". And then it shows in sorrow shall you eat of "it". Depending on how you read it "it" could mean two or even three different things.

The following newer translations have decided "it" means normal food by saying in sorrow you will eat from the ground more or less...
The Message
The Amplified
New Century
Holman Standard
New International Reader
New Living
Contemporary

Almost everyone else leaves it as it.

roaring tiger
Mar 10th 2010, 08:36 AM
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


The question is, what can be deduced from the text? While Adam and Eve were in the garden, did they ever eat of the tree of life? Personally I'm not certain, but I tend to think that they didn't. why? Because..how many times can one live for ever? Or how can one live forever then die?

Does Genesis 3:22 imply that all one has to do to live for ever is to eat of the tree of life just one time, or does it imply to live for ever, one has to eat of the tree of life continually? This is why I'm uncertain, because I can see it working either way.

Hi!!!divaD greetings;
Would to God ye could bear with me a little folly and indeed bear with me.
Your OP about tree of life is a matter that men had start seeking since the world has been populated
but almost no one had succeeded in understanding it because it was taken away or hidden since the couple sinned.Your personnal asumption whether they ate the fruit of tree of life may be right
or maybe false.But ,take it for granted they had eaten it they could not last alive for couple of thousand years physically and like flowers they will whither in old age.
When Adam and Eve was drove out of garden He place at east of Eden Cher'u-bims,and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.Nowhere can we find it?
Prov.3:13-18 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and thr man that geteth understanding.
v.14]For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver,and the gain therof than fine gold.v.15]
She is more precious than rubies; and all things canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
v.16]Length of days is in her right hand riches and honour.
v.17]Her ways are ways of pleasantness,and all her paths are peace.
v.18]She is tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: happy is every one that retaineth her.
Who is the cher'u-bims that with flaming sword? zech. 4:14 Then said he,These are the two annointed ones,that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.Heb.4:12 for the word of God is quick
and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul
and spirit,and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart.
How could we know or learn about these?
John 14 26 But the Comforter,which is the Holy Ghost,whom the Father will send in my name,he
shall teach you all things,and bring all things to your remembrance,whatsoever I have said unto you.1John 2:27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that
any man teach you: but the same anointing teacheth you all the things,and is truth,and is no lie,
even as it hath taught you,ye shall abide in him.
Thanks and many blessing.
in love of Christ./RT.

holyrokker
Mar 10th 2010, 03:22 PM
What I allways wondered is what does "it" mean in the verse below. At first glance sure "it" looks like we would be eating the ground. But a closer look makes me wonder.

Genesis 3
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

The KJV version shows that God said I commanded you shall not eat of "it". And then it shows in sorrow shall you eat of "it". Depending on how you read it "it" could mean two or even three different things.

The following newer translations have decided "it" means normal food by saying in sorrow you will eat from the ground more or less...
The Message
The Amplified
New Century
Holman Standard
New International Reader
New Living
Contemporary

Almost everyone else leaves it as it.
Do you think God could be telling them that now they are limited to what is natural, and no longer have access to what is spiritual?

Zack702
Mar 10th 2010, 06:05 PM
Do you think God could be telling them that now they are limited to what is natural, and no longer have access to what is spiritual?

Well I am not sure about that and it depends more specificly I think on how we are using "spiritual".

I think The Lord is showing them that he has the tree of life. In order to partake in the tree of life they need him at heart. They never need to hide themselves from him and they need to seek him for mercy if not seek him for joy. Because our own mercy is temporary. And our own joy is temporary. But his is truely the source that is everlasting.

Even still I would like to further study that specific verse because it could mean different things.
If "it" is the same word being translated as "it".
Or if "it" means the knowledge of good and evil in one part. And in another "it" refers to the ground.
As I said at first glance "it" seams to be normal food. Which perhaps it does refer to normal food.

Sam07
Mar 10th 2010, 07:54 PM
Hey everyone,

Remember God planted the Garden of Eden on earth so it was a completely separate area and apparently garden is translated hedge or protected area so it is clear that God was comfortable with this and was quite content for the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life to grow together in the midst’s of the garden, but Adam was placed there to maintain the garden and to look after it so God had to warn him about eating from the tree of knowledge because he had to inform Adam of its contents and the affect it would have upon Adam.

It was obvious Adam understood what God said when God said son you may freely eat from any tree in the garden, but if you eat from this particular tree you will surely die, because there is no record of Adams curiosity getting the better of him or of any thoughts of temptation from him or Eve, prior to the devil using the serpent to deceive them both in order to open their eyes to this revelation separate them from God and transfer there authority and dominion over to him, hence the god of this world….until Jesus stripped and defeated him returning authority and dominion back to the members in body of Christ etc.

I believe the reason why the tree of life and the tree of knowledge were in the middle of the garden was to obviously keep out of peoples reach but they were also placed there in this paradise because they both represented or reflected symbolic aspects of God, the tree of knowledge represents Gods understanding of good and evil and the tree of life represents Gods eternity.

God created earth to enjoy his creation and created Adam in his image to have fellowship and communion with him and then he gave Adam dominion over his creation and God said it is good……………

Peace

Sam

Brother Mark
Mar 10th 2010, 11:17 PM
I think when they ate the tree of life, they had eternal life right then. But I think they would have to continue eating from the tree of life to have passed each additional test that came there way. The only way they could have passed the test for the tree of knowledge, IMO, would be to eat from the tree of life.

Just like we do... we eat from the Tree of Life and have eternal life. Then, when tests come our way, we must continue to eat from the Tree of Life (Jesus) to pass each test.

The Mighty Sword
Mar 10th 2010, 11:26 PM
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

It was a combination of the two, eating from the tree of life was fine, but since they ate from the tree of knowledge which was forbidden, God had forbidden them to eat from the tree of life afterwards, if they had the would have become eternal living beings.

holyrokker
Mar 10th 2010, 11:40 PM
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

It was a combination of the two, eating from the tree of life was fine, but since they ate from the tree of knowledge which was forbidden, God had forbidden them to eat from the tree of life afterwards, if they had the would have become eternal living beings.

Do you think it is safe to conclude that we have inherited mortality because we do not have access to that tree?

The Mighty Sword
Mar 10th 2010, 11:42 PM
Do you think it is safe to conclude that we have inherited mortality because we do not have access to that tree?

I think we inherited mortality because of disobedience.

crossnote
Mar 10th 2010, 11:53 PM
The Tree of Life is offered to fallen man after perfect obedience had been performed and God's wrath swallowed. It is planted on a hill called Calvary.

roaring tiger
Mar 11th 2010, 02:06 AM
The Tree of Life is offered to fallen man after perfect obedience had been performed and God's wrath swallowed. It is planted on a hill called Calvary.

Hi!!!crossnote greetings;
Yes,I agree that it was planted in hill of Calvary.It was the tree were Lord Jesus was hung.Adam being cursed after he ate the fruit of good and evil cursing goes on all their descendant.
Heb.9:29 And E-sai'as said before, Except the Lord Sab'a-oth had left us a seed, we had been as Sod'o-ma and been made like unto Go- mor' rha.
Gal.3:16 and that seed is which is Christ where as the Jew hung him on the tree on Calvary.
When God cursed Adam,He said,because thou hast hearkend unto the voice of thy wife,and eaten of the tree,of which I commanded thee,saying,Thou shalt not eat of it:cursed is the ground
for the sake sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of the life.
v.9]Thorn also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee:and thoushalt eat the herb of the field.
v.10] In the sweat of the face shalt thou eat bread,till thou return to the ground:for out of it wast thou taken:for dust thou art,and unto dust shall thou return.
And because God so love the world so He sent his begotten Son,the seed of Abraham Jesus Christ,Word of God that was planted in hill of Calvary.
Jesus preach in John 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross,and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
As part of obedience to God we shall be like a mustard seed,that being the lest of all seeds must grow,have stem and branches and leaves.
as what was said in Acts 12:24 But the word grew and multiplied. It signifies our growth in spirit of Christ.
And if we succeeded in knowing and breaking of the bread of life of Jesus,which constitute what God said to Adam,from sweat of your face you shall eat your bread.
John 14:26 But the Comforter,which is the Holy Ghost,whom the Father shall send in my name,he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance,whatsoever I have said unto you. It is Christ the wisdom of God,firstfruit of tree of life.
Thank you and many blessing to all.
in love of Christ./RT.

roaring tiger
Mar 12th 2010, 05:34 PM
What I allways wondered is what does "it" mean in the verse below. At first glance sure "it" looks like we would be eating the ground. But a closer look makes me wonder.

Genesis 3
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

The KJV version shows that God said I commanded you shall not eat of "it". And then it shows in sorrow shall you eat of "it". Depending on how you read it "it" could mean two or even three different things.

The following newer translations have decided "it" means normal food by saying in sorrow you will eat from the ground more or less...
The Message
The Amplified
New Century
Holman Standard
New International Reader
New Living
Contemporary

Almost everyone else leaves it as it.

Hi !!!Zack702 greetings;
Sorry, I over looked your question about "it".
You had quote in one of your post that "it" may means the tree of knowledge of good and evil or
"it" may refer to ground or "it" may mean normal food.
No,neither of the three mention are synonyms of "it".It pertain to what God said to Adam in
Gen.3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,till thou return to the ground; for out of it
wast thou taken:for dust thou art,and unto dust shalt thou return.
So, in view thereof,when Adam seen that they were naked they figs leaves together to cover their nakedness.Despite their misdeed God make coats of skin,and cloth them.Gen.3:21
So when Adam has sinned he has to work hard to produce material food and spiritual bread.
Please take note of the tree of life,Gen.3:22 And the Lord God said, behold,the man is become as one of us,to know good and evil;and now,lest he put forth his hand,and take also of the tree of life,
and eat,and live forever. Because God so love the world and does not wat us to perish so He sent
his beloved Son to give us salvation.
Jesus preach us in John 6:51,54-58 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat this bread,he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, I will give for
the life of the world.
V.54]Whoso eateh my flesh,and drink my blood,hath eternal life;and I will raise him up at the last day.v.55]For my flesh is meat indeed,and my blood is drink indeed.
v.56] He that eateth my flesh and drink my blood,dweleth in me and I in him.
v.57]And as the living Father hath sent me,and I live by the Father;so he that eateth me,even he shall live by me.
v.58]This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna,and are dead:he that eateth this bread shall live for ever.This "it" bread signifies the tree of life that taken away from Adam and now was to be given to us as a white raiment that thou mayest be clothed
and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear;and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve,that thou mayest see.Rev.3:18.
Adam has been cursed to labour to produce his food,so we was preach by Jesus, Matt.11:28-29 come unto me,all ye that labour and are heavy laden,and I will give you rest.
v.29]Take my yoke upon you,and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart; and ye shall find
rest unto your soul.
Thanks and many blessing.
in love of Christ./RT.

Zack702
Mar 14th 2010, 01:29 AM
It pertain to what God said to Adam in
Gen.3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,till thou return to the ground; for out of it
wast thou taken:for dust thou art,and unto dust shalt thou return.

v.58]This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna,and are dead:he that eateth this bread shall live for ever. This "it" bread signifies the tree of life that taken away from Adam and now was to be given to us as a white raiment that thou mayest be clothed
Adam has been cursed to labour to produce his food,so we was preach by Jesus, Matt.11:28-29 come unto me,all ye that labour and are heavy laden,and I will give you rest.
v.29]Take my yoke upon you,and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart; and ye shall find
rest unto your soul.
Thanks and many blessing.
in love of Christ./RT.

Hello roaring tiger. Thank you for the reply. I have also enjoyed reading many of your posts which you have kindly made ^^

You see then how that bread from heaven can be a "it" that can be a sign of something that is not actual bread.
However when eating actual bread the understanding of the symbol of "it" can enable the parallel of it to live within.
Such things are symbols of other things.
One of the greatest is plants baring fruit and the fruit containing seeds.
Or a fortification that in ruin can be rebuilt.

It says in the text thorns and thistles it will bring forth.
Thorns and thistles are real things that are really growing right now.
But what if they are also parallels of real things that can live within us?

The text you mention even connects to this idea of Jesus living in us.
And him even himself stating we must drink his blood.
Making it very apparent that his blood is a parallel of real things that can live within us.

roaring tiger
Mar 14th 2010, 10:21 AM
Hello roaring tiger. Thank you for the reply. I have also enjoyed reading many of your posts which you have kindly made ^^

You see then how that bread from heaven can be a "it" that can be a sign of something that is not actual bread.
However when eating actual bread the understanding of the symbol of "it" can enable the parallel of it to live within.
Such things are symbols of other things.
One of the greatest is plants baring fruit and the fruit containing seeds.
Or a fortification that in ruin can be rebuilt.

It says in the text thorns and thistles it will bring forth.
Thorns and thistles are real things that are really growing right now.
But what if they are also parallels of real things that can live within us?

The text you mention even connects to this idea of Jesus living in us.
And him even himself stating we must drink his blood.
Making it very apparent that his blood is a parallel of real things that can live within us.

Hi!!!Zack702 greetings;

Yes, that's true that eating of bread symbolize the what so called transubtiantation of or a system of making the material bread such as what other denomination

was doing in making communion.Even,i though not believe on them i respect it for that is there belief or it is the fruit of there works.

About plants baring fruit and and the fruit containing seeds.Yes you can rely of it as a forification as what preclude in Rom.9:29 And E-sai'as said before,Except

the Lord of Sab'a-oth had left us seed,we had been as Sod'o-ma' and beenmade like unto Go-mor'rha.

Jesus preach in Matt.7:16-20 Ye shall know them by their fruits.Do men gather grapes of thorn,or figs of thisthles?

v.17]Even so every good tree bringeth forth evil fruit: but a corrupt tree bring forth evil fruit.

v.18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

v.19]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down,and cast into the fire.

v.20]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.[in my opin by your avatar you hast the fruit of the tree]

About thorn and thisthles, yes,that is a real thing happening in every day life of man. It is likened in the parable of good seed and tares.

Matt.13:24-28 while the men slept his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. and when sprung up

and brought fruit, then appear the tares also and servant came to householder and said;Sir didst not thou sow good seed? from

whence then hath it tares.He said unto them,an enemy hath done this.The servants said unto him,Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

But he said,Nay;lest while ye gather up the tares,ye root up also the wheat with them.

Yes the text i mention is really what you understand Christ is actually live with us.Gal.2:20 I am crucified with Christ:nevertheless I live; yet not I,

but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I live in the flesh I will live by the the faith of the Son of God, who loved me,and gave himself for me.

Drinking his blood is a metaphor and not the material blood that flows out in his body while he was dying in the cross.

1John 5 And there are three that bear witness in earth,the spirit,and the water,and the blood and these three agree in one.LIFE.

The shedding of blood of Jesus,the cross neither by his death did not remissed our sin.It is not by this we can be saved for it was not the will

of Father that his beloved Son came here just to die,but to give us everlasting life.

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this,that a man lay down his life for his friends.You are my friends,if ye do whatsoever I command you.

If,that is the greatest love; Why is it needed for Jesus to die?

Jesus said in John 12:24Verily,verily,I say unto you,Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die,it abideth alone but if it die,it bring forth much fruit.

Jn.12:23]Thy hour is come,that the Son of man should be glorified.

1 Cor.15:36-38 Thou fool,that which thou sowest is not quickened,except it die.

v.37]And that which thou sowest,thou sowest not that body that shall be,but bare grain, it may chance of wheat,or of some other grain.

v.38]But God giveth it a body as it has pleased him, and to every seed his own body.And we have the seed of Abraham, Christ the WORD of GOD.

Thanks and many blessing.
in love of Christ./RT.