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ross3421
Mar 14th 2010, 06:15 AM
Is it possible that angels are "holy spirits" in themselves and are sent by THE Holy Spirit to the heirs of salvation for to minister?

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Do we see this at Pentecost

Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Ac 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Ac 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


Mark

Servant89
Mar 14th 2010, 06:32 AM
Angels do not receive worship (Rev 19 & 22), the HS is God, he can. God said he will not leave us comfortlesss, he is with us himself, the HS. The Bible refers to the HS as singular (not many of them). Angels need to hear the truth of God from those in the Church, the HS is the truth giver. Angels have flaws (Job 4:18), the HS doesn't have any.

Shalom

ross3421
Mar 14th 2010, 06:53 AM
Angels do not receive worship (Rev 19 & 22), the HS is God, he can.

A common mistake. The verse is not saying not to worship this angel rather worship God. In eternity we will worship the father God.

Re 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Note that John must have thought this angel to be like no other for him to bow down. In addition we see the angel in chapter 22 call himself the alpha and omega.......

Re 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Re 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


Angels have flaws (Job 4:18), the HS doesn't have any.
Shalom

Job 4:18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:

I think the servants and angels being spoken of are those which were aligned with Satan as seen in chapter 1.


Mark

ThyWordIsTruth
Mar 15th 2010, 05:02 PM
Angels have flaws (Job 4:18), the HS doesn't have any.
Shalom

Actually that verse from Job needs to be understood in context of the entire book of Job. The background of the book of Job is that Eliphaz the Temanite and his 3 friends have a faulty theology, for which God rebukes him for in the last chapter. The words of Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar must then be understood in that light (man's way of thinking, but wrong theology).

Thus the words spoken by Eliphaz in chapter 4 are categorically untrue. The picture he paints of God, being even distrustful of his angels, is a wrong picture. Thus we cannot conclude that angels have flaws from that verse, I don't think the holy angels have flaws.

Reynolds357
Mar 15th 2010, 05:26 PM
Is it possible that angels are "holy spirits" in themselves and are sent by THE Holy Spirit to the heirs of salvation for to minister?

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Do we see this at Pentecost

Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Ac 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Ac 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


Mark

We are merely discussing terminology here. What we call angels does not change who they are. The Holy Spirit is 1/3 of The Godhead. He is deity. Angels are servants of God who minister to man. They are not deity.

daughter
Mar 15th 2010, 06:48 PM
You need to be careful with angels, we are warned that simply because something is an angel, doesn't mean we should trust it. After all, the devil is an angel, and so are the demons. Speculating about angels is a notoriously dangerous thing to do spiritually speaking. We should be looking to Christ, not angels.

Ta-An
Mar 15th 2010, 08:31 PM
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Mark, what do you think this verse means??

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2010, 09:05 PM
If an evil spirit is just that an evil spirit, then by the same logic and angel of GOD (heaven) is a holy spirit:

Luke 7:21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.

Evil spirit= evil angels

Holy spirit=GODS angels

CRJarvis
Mar 15th 2010, 09:10 PM
I can not believe no one here knows what an angel is.
The word angel is not what many people think it is.

a lot of people think of them as a spiritual being with wings.
But that is a cherubim not a angel.

Now can a cherubim be an angel yes if sent by God.
Can a spirit be a angel only if sent by God.
Can a evil spirit be an angel only if sent by God.
Can a human be angel? ( I will let you answer this question)

For what the word angel means is a messenger of God.

Hebrew word
מַלְאַךְ
noun common masculine singular construct
n.m. messenger -- 1. messenger, a. one sent with a message,
Usage: AV - angel 111, messenger 98, ambassadors 4, variant 1; 214


Greek word
ἄγγελόν
noun accusative masculine singular
ou m angel; messenger, one who is sent
(This word was translated in the KJV in to the following english words. (this is what Usage is.)
Usage: AV - angel 179, messenger 7; 186

Now can a human be a angel?

Did God ever use a Human to send a message to anyone?

KJV Haggai 1:13 Then spake Haggai the LORD'S messenger in the LORD'S message unto the people, saying, I am with you, saith the LORD.

KJV Luke 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2010, 09:14 PM
I can not believe no one here knows what an angel is.
The word angle is not what many people think it is.

a lot of people think of them as a spiritual being with wings.
But that is a cherubim not a angel.
Now can a cherubim be an angel yes if sent by God.
Can a spirit be a angel only if sent by God.
Can a evil spirit be an angel only if sent by God.
Can a human be angel? ( I will let you answer this question)

For what the word angel means is a messenger of God.

Hebrew word
מַלְאַךְ
noun common masculine singular construct
n.m. messenger -- 1. messenger, a. one sent with a message,
Usage: AV - angel 111, messenger 98, ambassadors 4, variant 1; 214


Greek word
ἄγγελόν
noun accusative masculine singular
ou m angel; messenger, one who is sent
(This word was translated in the KJV in to the following english words. (this is what Usage is.)
Usage: AV - angel 179, messenger 7; 186

Now can a human be a angle?

First you tell us you can't believe we don't know what an angel is, which is an insult, now you're trying to convince us an angel is really an angle. :lol:

CRJarvis
Mar 15th 2010, 09:25 PM
yep my Dyslexia kicked in.
it was not meant as an insult,
(i am not saying no one here does not know this.
I'm just amazed that everyone does not know this yet.)

I had thought everyone knew this.
Yet the churches of today are not teaching the good stuff anymore.

CRJarvis
Mar 15th 2010, 09:33 PM
First you tell us you can't believe we don't know what an angel is, which is an insult, now you're trying to convince us an angel is really an angle. :lol:

if this is what I had said " I can not believe, no one here knows what an angel is." then yes it would be an Insult.
but what i had Said is "I can not believe no one here knows what an angel is."

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2010, 09:44 PM
if this is what I had said " I can not believe, no one here knows what an angel is." then yes it would be an Insult.
but what i had Said is "I can not believe no one here knows what an angel is."

Well believe me i have had dialogue with many on the board, they know an angel is a messenger of the LORD. Good talking to you.

CRJarvis
Mar 15th 2010, 10:21 PM
thank you and God Bless you.

theBelovedDisciple
Mar 15th 2010, 10:38 PM
if this is what I had said " I can not believe, no one here knows what an angel is." then yes it would be an Insult.
but what i had Said is "I can not believe no one here knows what an angel is."

have you got some special 'revelation' as to what an angel really is?

CRJarvis
Mar 15th 2010, 10:40 PM
have you got some special 'revelation' as to what an angel really is?

no i just looked in to the Greek and hebrew Text.
i also looked at what other words the KJV translated the hebrew and greek word in to.

daughter
Mar 15th 2010, 11:06 PM
It's not a special revelation as to what an angel is. It is simply that the word we translate as "angel" is the word for Messenger in the original texts. Malachi and Angelos would be the Hebrew and Greek pronunciations of the word "messenger."

Now, God does send spiritual messengers to deliver His word, and this is probably what most people think of when considering "angels." But the devil also sends messengers, and we know that these messengers, or angels, will be consigned with him to hell fire... it says so in Revelation.

So, it doesn't take a special revelation to know that an angel is a messenger, and if a heavenly messenger of God, then to be trusted, but sometimes a spiritual messenger who relays lies... as in demons.

History has been quite impacted by these demonic messengers by the way... many of the cults started because people listened to them. Islam and Mormonism spring to mind.

Reynolds357
Mar 15th 2010, 11:43 PM
if this is what I had said " I can not believe, no one here knows what an angel is." then yes it would be an Insult.
but what i had Said is "I can not believe no one here knows what an angel is."

When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging.

ross3421
Mar 15th 2010, 11:48 PM
If an evil spirit is just that an evil spirit, then by the same logic and angel of GOD (heaven) is a holy spirit:

Luke 7:21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.

Evil spirit= evil angels

Holy spirit=GODS angels

Thank you....... This is how I see as well.

CRJarvis
Mar 16th 2010, 12:41 AM
When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging.

God bless you too.

ThyWordIsTruth
Mar 16th 2010, 02:29 AM
If an evil spirit is just that an evil spirit, then by the same logic and angel of GOD (heaven) is a holy spirit:

Luke 7:21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.

Evil spirit= evil angels

Holy spirit=GODS angels

The Holy Spirit is not God's angels. The Holy Spirit is God and is the third person of the Trinity.


The Holy Spirit is God:
Act 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?
Act 5:4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."

- lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to lying to God

The Holy Spirit is Omnipresent
Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

- only God is Omnipresent. No created being, not even Satan, is omnipresent.

The Holy Spirit can be Blasphemed
Mat 12:31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
Mat 12:32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

- only God can be the object of blasphemy.

The Holy Spirit does things according to His will
1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

- only God does things according to his own will. The holy angels act in response to God's command, they are servants like us.

The Holy Spirit is Omniscient
1Co 2:10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
1Co 2:11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

- this Scripture tells us clearly that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, he is not an angel or angels.

The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture and is God
2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

He is the Spirit of God/Jesus

Mat 3:16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

1Pe 1:11 inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories.

He played a part in the creation of the Universe together with God the Father, and God the Son

Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

The Holy Spirit is the source of eternal life
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

nzyr
Mar 16th 2010, 02:32 AM
Holy angels aren't deity. They are spirits. But they aren't part of the Godhead. They are subject to Jesus Christ.

Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. (1 Peter 3:22)

CRJarvis
Mar 16th 2010, 02:49 AM
KJV Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

KJV 1 Corinthians 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
KJV 1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


This one below looks like a type or shadow of what is in 1 corinthians 15:28
KJV Genesis 41:40 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.

chad
Mar 16th 2010, 03:29 AM
Angels can be Holy (Mk 1:38; Lk 9:26), but they are not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead, Gods Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the comforter, counsellor - the one whom Jesus sent at Pentecost.

Angels are ministering spirits. Angels are not part of the Godhead. They are in submission to God (1 Peter 3:22).

ross3421
Mar 16th 2010, 08:25 AM
The Holy Spirit is not God's angels. The Holy Spirit is God and is the third person of the Trinity.


The Holy Spirit is God:
The Holy Spirit is Omnipresent
The Holy Spirit is Omniscient
The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture and is God
He is the Spirit of God/Jesus


Ok, God is able to show himself in many forms. It can be debated but the angel of the Lord is none other than one of these manifestations. If we think he can show himself in a man which is lower than the angels then why not in an angel. I can go through all the text supporting this if you would like but you can word search "angel of the Lord" for yourself.

Now how about the Holy Spirit? Think about it if this spirit indwells each and every believer on the face of the earth at one time then he must have the ability be a multitute of spirits. Who said the Holy Spirit is not made of many spirits? Actually I think scripture states otherwise.

6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

If we take a look at the above scripture we see a Lamb around the throne in heaven this is the picture of God's kingdom whom gives power unto this lamb. We see this lamb having not one but SEVEN spirits of God which would make up the third part of the trinity. Now if they are spirits of God then we could say they are God. Also we see they are sent out into all the earth, are not angels also sent forth?. Now I think we can make a further connection of "sevens" ; stars, candlesticks, eyes, horns, lampstands and last but not least the seven angels. I think we can say the following...

The seven angels = The seven spirits of God

So is there a spiritual higharcy in heaven? Sure, we have God, principalities, and all his other host of heaven in which angels play a role. The whole focus of this spiritual kingdom is the salvation of God's creation on earth. Angels are spirit beings, holy, and thus are holy spirits whom were are told are sent to be ministers unto us. How would an spirit, angel, minister unto you I ? Indwell us.

ross3421
Mar 16th 2010, 08:39 AM
Angels can be Holy (Mk 1:38; Lk 9:26),

Then they actually are holy spirits.


but they are not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead,

Can then the host of heaven (angels) comprise to make up the Holy Spirit?


Angels are ministering spirits.

How does an angel minister? Who gave then the authority to minister? Does not the Holy Spirit minister?, did not Jesus minister?


They are in submission to God (1 Peter 3:22).

22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

Well for that matter the Son and the Spirit are in submission to the Father but are equal. Likewise, if God being a spirit made spirit beings (angels) then what would they be? Part of God and submission to God while still having a certain authority and power.

Think about it. If God being a spirit made spirit beings then what more could they be? What less could they be?

forum lurker
Mar 16th 2010, 08:45 AM
Then they actually are holy spirits.


Where does their holiness come from? Are saints not holy?

chad
Mar 16th 2010, 11:58 PM
[QUOTE=ross3421;2367280]Then they actually are holy spirits.

A. The bible refers to angels as Holy Angels. No where that I know of are angels refered to as A Holy Spirit or the Holy Spirit.


Can then the host of heaven (angels) comprise to make up the Holy Spirit?

A. In my opinion no. The Holy Spirit is part of the God head (Father/Son/Holy Spirit). Although an angel may be Holy, they do not make up the God Head. Ie. They are not God.


How does an angel minister? Who gave then the authority to minister? Does not the Holy Spirit minister?, did not Jesus minister?

Gods angels are subject to God. Therefore thier authority comes from God. An Angels ministry is different than the H/S. In the NT, We see angels attending to Jesus after he was tempted in the desert and we see angels freeing the apostles when in prision. The bible describes Angels as messengers and those sent to serve those who will inherit salvation.

ThyWordIsTruth
Mar 17th 2010, 02:16 AM
Hi ross,


Ok, God is able to show himself in many forms. It can be debated but the angel of the Lord is none other than one of these manifestations. If we think he can show himself in a man which is lower than the angels then why not in an angel. I can go through all the text supporting this if you would like but you can word search "angel of the Lord" for yourself.

The Lord does not show himself as an angel, not that I know of. In the OT when an angel speaks on behalf of God, it is as good as God himself speaking, because the angel is speaking the words that God gave him to speak. However, the distinction is that the angel is not the Lord.

For Jesus, he did not "show himself in a man." Scripture says that he became a man.


Now how about the Holy Spirit? Think about it if this spirit indwells each and every believer on the face of the earth at one time then he must have the ability be a multitute of spirits. Who said the Holy Spirit is not made of many spirits? Actually I think scripture states otherwise.I'm afraid that I'll have to disagree with this way of interpreting Scripture. What we're doing here is interpolating and conjecting to arrive at an alternate "truth" but this is not the way God revealed truth to us. God has revealed Himself clearly in the Scriptures, as much as we can understand and as much as he chose to reveal concerning himself, and we are to accept his plain revelation of himself in the Scripture by faith. Thus I do not think we can arrive at truth by conjecture, and neither does the Bible teach us to know God this way.

In all of Scripture, God never says that the Holy Spirit is an angel(s). Scripture clearly states that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God himself, and is God.


6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

If we take a look at the above scripture we see a Lamb around the throne in heaven this is the picture of God's kingdom whom gives power unto this lamb. We see this lamb having not one but SEVEN spirits of God which would make up the third part of the trinity. Now if they are spirits of God then we could say they are God. Also we see they are sent out into all the earth, are not angels also sent forth?. Again I have to disagree with that conjecture in the last sentence. Using that same line of reasoning, a cat has four legs, and so does an elepant. Does that then make a cat an elephant? Also, Scripture did not say that the 7 spirits of God is the Holy Spirit, and I'm not sure that it is.



Now I think we can make a further connection of "sevens" ; stars, candlesticks, eyes, horns, lampstands and last but not least the seven angels. I think we can say the following...

The seven angels = The seven spirits of God Again I disagree. Many things in the Bible are seven. How could we possibly make a connection this way? It is like saying all the red things in the world are roses based on this line of reasoning.

And it is very very iffy to form doctrine based on prophecy that is not well understood even among many bible commentators, men who are learned in Scripture. And Christ specifically said that the 7 lampstands are churches, not angels. The 7 horns represent Christs total dominion and rule over his kingdome, and bespeak of his power and authority, it does not refer to angels also.


So is there a spiritual higharcy in heaven? Sure, we have God, principalities, and all his other host of heaven in which angels play a role. The whole focus of this spiritual kingdom is the salvation of God's creation on earth. Angels are spirit beings, holy, and thus are holy spirits whom were are told are sent to be ministers unto us. How would an spirit, angel, minister unto you I ? Indwell us.The problem I see with the above is this logical fallacy:

a) The angels are spirits
b) The angels are holy
c) The angels are holy spirits

However, the Bible does not call the Holy Spirit "holy spirits." It says Holy Spirit. Singular.
And nowhere in the Bible does God ever tell us that holy angels can indwell a man, or that God ever permits a holy angel to indwell a man. Only God indwells his children.

Eph 2:22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

However, I can give you a postulate that is certainly biblical:

a) God is Holy
b) God is a Spirit
c) God is the Holy Spirit

ross3421
Mar 17th 2010, 08:04 AM
Hi ross,
The Lord does not show himself as an angel, not that I know of.

Hi TWT

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

We are told from scripture that the voice of the Lord raises the dead. Above we are told that the Lord's voice is of an archangel.


In the OT when an angel speaks on behalf of God, it is as good as God himself speaking, because the angel is speaking the words that God gave him to speak. However, the distinction is that the angel is not the Lord.

2 And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
4 So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”

5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.


In all of Scripture, God never says that the Holy Spirit is an angel(s). Scripture clearly states that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God himself, and is God.

It does say angels are spirits. So would it be conjecture to say spirits are angels? God is spirit, so then can God be an angel?

The truth is God can be appear in whatever he wants, a bush, a donkey, a man, an angel. I think we have been boxed into to thinking that angels are somehow different class of spirits.


And Christ specifically said that the 7 lampstands are churches, not angels.

There are seven angels assigned to these seven churches. Note when we see the 7 lampstands (7 churches) we see another like the son of man. The son of man is the eighth but of the seven stars/angels. So we have 7 churches and seven angels and another like the son of man which would be no conjecture to say he would be the head of the churches but also of the angels which would be an archangel (chief of the angels).

Note the one like unto the son of man is seen in spirit form and what is a spirit? These 7 angels are the 7 spirits seen with the lamb Rev 5.

12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. 19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this. 20 The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.


And nowhere in the Bible does God ever tell us that holy angels can indwell a man, or that God ever permits a holy angel to indwell a man. Only God indwells his children.

It is beyond the possiblity that God uses angels to indwell mankind? I mean they are his mesengers to us, has one ever talked to you? It would be more logical that these are the spirits which indwell us ie to be God's messengers. We know scripture does show us evil angels indwell men but it is forbidded for holy angels? I guess more conjecture.


Mark

CRJarvis
Mar 19th 2010, 11:51 PM
KJV Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

KJV 1 Corinthians 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
KJV 1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


This one below looks like a type or shadow of what is in 1 corinthians 15:28
KJV Genesis 41:40 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.

Now we know God "YHVH" has gave all power over everything to Jesus (excluding himself "YHVH") so does this mean that Jesus has power over the Holy Spirit?

ThyWordIsTruth
Mar 20th 2010, 12:13 AM
Now we know God "YHVH" has gave all power over everything to Jesus (excluding himself "YHVH") so does this mean that Jesus has power over the Holy Spirit?

You don't "have power" over yourself. They are three persons one God. It doesn't work that way.

God the Father glorifies the Son. God the Son glorifies the Father. God the Holy Spirit glorifies the Son. They are not in competition, they are in perfect unity.

CRJarvis
Mar 20th 2010, 02:07 AM
i sure hope i have power over my self.

Steven3
Mar 21st 2010, 12:43 PM
Hi Ross3421
I think Psalm 104:4 "he makes his messengers winds, his ministers a flaming fire" isn't the same as "angels/messengers" = "winds/spirits" it's only a comparison.


Thus the words spoken by Eliphaz in chapter 4 are categorically untrue. The picture he paints of God, being even distrustful of his angels, is a wrong picture. Thus we cannot conclude that angels have flaws from that verse, I don't think the holy angels have flaws.Correct: Eliphaz views are stated to be wrong by God in Job42. And his statement is difficult to reconcile with Heb1:14