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Saved 1982
Mar 19th 2010, 05:07 PM
Encounter with a demon.
After I went through the six weeks of extreme warfare with the devil and his demons, I started praying, Father in Jesus Holy name let me look into the spirit world and see the demons, let me see my enemy.
Now I know you have all heard the saying, be careful what you pray for you may get it.
When the Lord set me free from the bad drinking habit I had, I started working with an alcoholic group, it wasnít AA, but a group run by the state. I was told I could help out , but they didnít allow Bibles to be brought in. I couldnít bring my Bible, of course that didnít stop me from telling everyone there about our loving Lord Jesus and His mighty miracle working power.
I received a phone call from the lady in charge about one oíclock in the afternoon( now this lady was a Christian and had heard about spiritual warfare, she just didnĎt know what to do) she said can you come up here I have a couple I want you to talk to. It so happened I was on vacation that week so I went.
When I got to the office the lady in charge was setting behind the desk which was a large desk, the couple was setting in front, so I got a chair and set behind it on side of the lady in charge. The husband was setting on the far corner of the desk away from me.
She said I want you to listen to what this young lady has to say, referring to the manís wife. They were a married couple in their mid thirties.
The wife starting telling me what happened when her husband got drunk ( he had a bad drinking problem) she said I donít know if I should tell you this you will think Iím crazy. I said go ahead tell me whatís going on. Then she starting telling me how when her husband got drunk his face would change and not look human anymore, his tongue would come out like a snake, foul looking stuff would ooze out of his mouth, he spoke in a raspy voice that wasnít his and filthy words would come out calling her all kinds of bad names. ( she told me her brother had a drinking problem then one night he seen her husband do this and he quit drinking)
As she was telling me this I looked over at her husband and got the shock of my life. Standing behind her husband was this thing ( a demon) about five feet tall and about three feet wide, itís face looked like it was crossed up between a man and an animal. It didnít have a nose, but had two slits where itís nose should have been, it had red glowing eyeís, and it had bright red lips like a woman with to much lipstick on. It didnít have teeth, but yellow fangs dripping with slime in itís mouth, itís hair was long and going straight up and out, it didnít look like hair but like long black bristles . It didnít have fingers but long yellow claws which it had on the top of the manís shoulders. Itís skin looked like tanned leather and grossly looking. Hollywood can close to what demons look like in their horror movies but when you see one for real it sets your heart to pumping. Talk about getting weak in the knees, I mean my legs starting shaking. I looked at the woman in charge and the manís wife their faces didnít looked shocked so I knew they didnít see what I was seeing. As I looked over at the man the demon took it claws off the manís shoulders and backed up.
Talk about praying, I didnít hear what the woman was saying I was calling out to God in my spirit. Father what do I do? Help me my Lord Jesus! I looked back at the man and the thing had itís claws back on his shoulders, but each time I looked at it , the demon backed up.
As I was calling out to our Lord, I felt those living waters start churning up inside me, as the Holy Spirit moved. All of a sudden a peace come upon me like I had never felt, all fear left me and the Holy Spirit was all over me. 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, then he that is in the world.
I told the man stand up, he looked at me kind of funny I guess because I said it real loud.( I want to say right here, you donít talk the devil or demons out of or away from anybody, you command them out in the Holy name of Jesus.) As the man stood up I took his hands in mine, then I said in a loud voice, you foul spirit that is destroying this man and his family I command you in the Holy name of Jesus Christ to loose him and be gone. All of a sudden the power of God hit us both and we went to our knees, that thing (the demon cried out with a loud voice and a growl, now the woman in charge and the manís wife didnít see the demon, but they heard the growl come out of manís mouth. ) and was gone. A glow appeared on the manís face and his eyeís took on a shine. The lady in charge and the manís wife set there in shock. They were from a town a good ways from were we lived. I prayed with them and for them, and told them to find a good church were they lived and go to it. I asked them to come to our church, but it would have been a far drive for them three times a week. I gave the man my phone number and told him if he ever needed me to call, I never have heard from him so I believe all is well with them. Since then on several occasions I have seen demons as God allowed me to look into the spirit world, let me say itís not for the faint of heart. So if you donít want to see demons, be careful what you pray for you may get it. I have also have seen Holy angels they are wonderful.
God bless,
Saved 1982 (Bill)

theBelovedDisciple
Mar 19th 2010, 05:55 PM
Encounter with a demon.
After I went through the six weeks of extreme warfare with the devil and his demons, I started praying, Father in Jesus Holy name let me look into the spirit world and see the demons, let me see my enemy.
Now I know you have all heard the saying, be careful what you pray for you may get it.
When the Lord set me free from the bad drinking habit I had, I started working with an alcoholic group, it wasnít AA, but a group run by the state. I was told I could help out , but they didnít allow Bibles to be brought in. I couldnít bring my Bible, of course that didnít stop me from telling everyone there about our loving Lord Jesus and His mighty miracle working power.
I received a phone call from the lady in charge about one oíclock in the afternoon( now this lady was a Christian and had heard about spiritual warfare, she just didnĎt know what to do) she said can you come up here I have a couple I want you to talk to. It so happened I was on vacation that week so I went.
When I got to the office the lady in charge was setting behind the desk which was a large desk, the couple was setting in front, so I got a chair and set behind it on side of the lady in charge. The husband was setting on the far corner of the desk away from me.
She said I want you to listen to what this young lady has to say, referring to the manís wife. They were a married couple in their mid thirties.
The wife starting telling me what happened when her husband got drunk ( he had a bad drinking problem) she said I donít know if I should tell you this you will think Iím crazy. I said go ahead tell me whatís going on. Then she starting telling me how when her husband got drunk his face would change and not look human anymore, his tongue would come out like a snake, foul looking stuff would ooze out of his mouth, he spoke in a raspy voice that wasnít his and filthy words would come out calling her all kinds of bad names. ( she told me her brother had a drinking problem then one night he seen her husband do this and he quit drinking)
As she was telling me this I looked over at her husband and got the shock of my life. Standing behind her husband was this thing ( a demon) about five feet tall and about three feet wide, itís face looked like it was crossed up between a man and an animal. It didnít have a nose, but had two slits where itís nose should have been, it had red glowing eyeís, and it had bright red lips like a woman with to much lipstick on. It didnít have teeth, but yellow fangs dripping with slime in itís mouth, itís hair was long and going straight up and out, it didnít look like hair but like long black bristles . It didnít have fingers but long yellow claws which it had on the top of the manís shoulders. Itís skin looked like tanned leather and grossly looking. Hollywood can close to what demons look like in their horror movies but when you see one for real it sets your heart to pumping. Talk about getting weak in the knees, I mean my legs starting shaking. I looked at the woman in charge and the manís wife their faces didnít looked shocked so I knew they didnít see what I was seeing. As I looked over at the man the demon took it claws off the manís shoulders and backed up.
Talk about praying, I didnít hear what the woman was saying I was calling out to God in my spirit. Father what do I do? Help me my Lord Jesus! I looked back at the man and the thing had itís claws back on his shoulders, but each time I looked at it , the demon backed up.
As I was calling out to our Lord, I felt those living waters start churning up inside me, as the Holy Spirit moved. All of a sudden a peace come upon me like I had never felt, all fear left me and the Holy Spirit was all over me. 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, then he that is in the world.
I told the man stand up, he looked at me kind of funny I guess because I said it real loud.( I want to say right here, you donít talk the devil or demons out of or away from anybody, you command them out in the Holy name of Jesus.) As the man stood up I took his hands in mine, then I said in a loud voice, you foul spirit that is destroying this man and his family I command you in the Holy name of Jesus Christ to loose him and be gone. All of a sudden the power of God hit us both and we went to our knees, that thing (the demon cried out with a loud voice and a growl, now the woman in charge and the manís wife didnít see the demon, but they heard the growl come out of manís mouth. ) and was gone. A glow appeared on the manís face and his eyeís took on a shine. The lady in charge and the manís wife set there in shock. They were from a town a good ways from were we lived. I prayed with them and for them, and told them to find a good church were they lived and go to it. I asked them to come to our church, but it would have been a far drive for them three times a week. I gave the man my phone number and told him if he ever needed me to call, I never have heard from him so I believe all is well with them. Since then on several occasions I have seen demons as God allowed me to look into the spirit world, let me say itís not for the faint of heart. So if you donít want to see demons, be careful what you pray for you may get it. I have also have seen Holy angels they are wonderful.
God bless,
Saved 1982 (Bill)


I read your story.. and from what I read... and what you 'say' is a demon or daemon ie 'devil'...... or from what you saw.. and claim to be a 'demon'.. from the description...

doesn't line up with His Word at all...

demons , devils, daemon in the Greek... these do not appear as ugly hideous creatures.. and their appearance is NOT one of hideous and ugly.. with fangs and claws...

that is what the Great Deciever wants you to believe.. its his deception... and he will do just that... so that his true identity and nature is not revealed...

devils, demons, daemon in the Greek...

their appearance is one 'like their father, diabolos, satanas (satan).. their appearance when the veil is pulled back is one of 'beauty', full of wisdom, appealing to the flesh... not hideous and ugly with fangs and claws... You said God allowed you to 'peer' into the 'spirit world'? well what your seeing is not Truth from the 'spirit world'.....

from what you saw and describe is not what a devil or demon looks like...

satan himself is a decoy artist.. and he will use false revelations, false deliverances, false conversions to cover up his true identity... he is a cunning and crafty creature...

what Hollywood and 'religion' peg as the 'devil' and his appearances is just not True...

he is a liar and the father of it.. and he dupes alot of people into believing something that he is really not.....

many do not 'know' or are unable to comprehend the depths of his darkness.... or the depths of satan... he is a master deciever....

moonglow
Mar 19th 2010, 06:12 PM
I read your story.. and from what I read... and what you 'say' is a demon or daemon ie 'devil'...... or from what you saw.. and claim to be a 'demon'.. from the description...

doesn't line up with His Word at all...

demons , devils, daemon in the Greek... these do not appear as ugly hideous creatures.. and their appearance is NOT one of hideous and ugly.. with fangs and claws...

that is what the Great Deciever wants you to believe.. its his deception... and he will do just that... so that his true identity and nature is not revealed...

devils, demons, daemon in the Greek...

their appearance is one 'like their father, diabolos, satanas (satan).. their appearance when the veil is pulled back is one of 'beauty', full of wisdom, appealing to the flesh... not hideous and ugly with fangs and claws... You said God allowed you to 'peer' into the 'spirit world'? well what your seeing is not Truth from the 'spirit world'.....

from what you saw and describe is not what a devil or demon looks like...

satan himself is a decoy artist.. and he will use false revelations, false deliverances, false conversions to cover up his true identity... he is a cunning and crafty creature...

what Hollywood and 'religion' peg as the 'devil' and his appearances is just not True...

he is a liar and the father of it.. and he dupes alot of people into believing something that he is really not.....

many do not 'know' or are unable to comprehend the depths of his darkness.... or the depths of satan... he is a master deciever....

You need to back up your own claims with scriptures before you say this to someone.

The bible says this about satan:

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (New King James Version)

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

It doesn't describe what demon's look like though and we know from other scriptures Satan can change appearances. He certainly doesn't have to appear as an angle of light. In the garden he was a serpent..in Revelations he is described as a dragon.

Since demons are spirits and have no bodies of their own, what saved may be seeing their character more then anything else..like satan being a dragon. Whether this is literal...that he can appear to look like a dragon or if its a description of his character we don't know for sure.

The fruits though of such things will tell the truth here..did the man stop drinking?

God bless

notuptome
Mar 19th 2010, 07:58 PM
Did this man get saved? Whether a demon was cast out or not I cannot say but did the man get saved?

I'm thinking of the scripture in Mat 12:43-45. Unless Jesus came into this mans heart the demon will be free to return.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Saved 1982
Mar 19th 2010, 10:14 PM
Yes the man got saved. I new it would do no good to cast a demon out and not get the man to know Jesus Chrsit as his Savior. I told the man this, and he accepted the fact that our Lord died for his sins and this was the only way to heaven.
To cast a demon out and not lead someone to God the Father through Jesus Chrsit our Lord would be very dangerous. This would open the doorway for many more demons to get into a person.
The following is for:the BelovedDisciple.
The first thing I will say is; I love you with the love of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Over the years I have had many come against me because I have been involved in spiritual warfare. The reason, Satan does not set back and take anyone coming against him or his kingdom lightly.
Our Lord Jesus said in John 10:10, the thief ( Satan) only comes for to steal, and to kill and to destroy.
Now I know that in 2 Corinthians 11: 14, it says that Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. However it does not say that the demons are. Demons can take on different forms and shapes.
They can even appear as a human for a short period of time.
A lot of people think that demons are fallen angels, but, Peter said in 2 Peter 2:4, For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.
So if demons are not fallen angels, then who or what are they?
What I wrote and what you wrote about me, I have placed in the hands of our Lord Jesus Christ to let Him judge.
I would ask you this question. Has our Lord ever opened your eyes to the spirit world and let you see angels or demons? For you my prayer would be. Father in the holy name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth open this ones’ eyes to see into the spirit world. Let them see a demon or demons. Then let them judge for themselves if what I have wrote is the truth.
I say this before God the Father , Jesus Christ his Son, the Holy Spirit, and all the holy angels. I wrote what I saw on that day. I set at my desk with my hand on a King James Bible; The Thompson Chain- Reference Bible and as I look up to the Throne of the most high God ( Jehovah ) and say, I wrote what our Lord showed me by the Holy Spirit.
My statement of truth. What I believe. I believe in one God who manifests Himself three ways; God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus Christ was born of a virgin. I believe He was baptized by John the Baptist, and the Holy Sprit descended like a dove upon Him.
I believe He started preaching when He was about thirty years of age. He preached and went about doing all kind of miracles, healing all manner of sickness and disease among the people. I believe He opened up blind eyes, made the deaf to hear, the mute to talk, the lame to walk, and raised the dead. I believe He preached for about three and one half years, then was hung on across and crucified. He was placed in a tomb, but, on the third day God raised Him from the dead and He was seen on earth for forty days. Acts 1:4) He was seen by the eleven disciples.
He was also seen of about five hundred brethren at one time after He was raised form the dead.( 1 Corinthians15 :6)
He ascended into heaven in a cloud ( Acts 1:9) and now He sets at the right hand of God the Father.
This Jesus is my Savior, my Lord, and My Master. I believe our Lord Jesus Christ is also God in the flesh. Emanuel, God with us.( Matthew 1:23)
God bless,
Saved 1982 ( Bill)

daughter
Mar 19th 2010, 10:45 PM
Bill, I say this with all due respect, but I think praying that another Christian will see a demon is an extremely nasty prayer. Why would you want someone, even a blood bought born again Christian who is ultimately saved, to have to suffer the demonic, just to prove a point? I'm speaking here as someone who has experience of the demonic, and it's not something I would wish on anyone.

Also, I believe that you're wrong in your belief that demons aren't fallen angels. But that's an aside. We shouldn't ponder the imponderables too much, it's bad for us. I don't think Christians should dwell on the demonic, it's unhealthy. And we certainly shouldn't wish the demonic on other Christians.

moonglow
Mar 19th 2010, 10:54 PM
Bill, I say this with all due respect, but I think praying that another Christian will see a demon is an extremely nasty prayer. Why would you want someone, even a blood bought born again Christian who is ultimately saved, to have to suffer the demonic, just to prove a point? I'm speaking here as someone who has experience of the demonic, and it's not something I would wish on anyone.

Also, I believe that you're wrong in your belief that demons aren't fallen angels. But that's an aside. We shouldn't ponder the imponderables too much, it's bad for us. I don't think Christians should dwell on the demonic, it's unhealthy. And we certainly shouldn't wish the demonic on other Christians.

I didn't read it that way..I read Saved only prayed they could 'see' the demons..not suffer at their hands.


I would ask you this question. Has our Lord ever opened your eyes to the spirit world and let you see angels or demons? For you my prayer would be. Father in the holy name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth open this onesí eyes to see into the spirit world. Let them see a demon or demons. Then let them judge for themselves if what I have wrote is the truth.

Jesus and Paul and others could see them. Not sure I would want to though.

God bless

daughter
Mar 19th 2010, 11:14 PM
I have seen demons, both before and after I was saved. It's certainly not something I would pray for another Christian to see.

Saved 1982
Mar 20th 2010, 02:05 PM
Daughter you are right, I wrote that in haste, I have prayed for my Lord to forgive me for my bad choice of words.This is going to far to prove a point.
I know there are some who's heart could not take seeing into the spirit world and to look at a demon. So my Father please forgive me for what I wrote in Jesus Holy name.
I ask your forgiveness the BelovedDisciple.
God bless,
Saved 1982 ( Bill)

RockSolid
Mar 20th 2010, 05:14 PM
It all depends on what you think demons are. Also if you think their is a difference between demons and 'unclean spirits'.
If you think they are the 1/3 of the angles that fell with Lucifer, then no, they shouldn't look like that. They should be beautiful. But can they take on any form?
If you think they are dark disembodied spirits (Jesus called them 'unclean spirits') from dead humans, then who knows what they would look like. (least likely in my opinion)
If you think that your own 'spirit' can become so depraved over a lengthy, unusually lofty carnal mind, that your spirit becomes an 'unclean spirit'... a Christian helps you by casting it out of you and you start fresh and new, but if you don't accept Jesus then you're unclean spirit comes back stronger.... then who know's what that would look like, if it would look like anything.

Back to the Word of God we go.

Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
1. So they knew that Jesus was the son of God.

Matthew 8:28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.
29"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"
2. Sounds like they know they are doomed in the future. Do they know the Word of God? Lucifer (an angel) knew the scriptures when he tested Jesus.

Make up your own mind.

I think their is a difference between demons and unclean spirits.

Athanasius
Mar 20th 2010, 05:26 PM
Jesus and Paul and others could see them. Not sure I would want to though.

God bless

No, you don't want to.

moonglow
Mar 20th 2010, 06:09 PM
It all depends on what you think demons are. Also if you think their is a difference between demons and 'unclean spirits'.
If you think they are the 1/3 of the angles that fell with Lucifer, then no, they shouldn't look like that. They should be beautiful. But can they take on any form?
If you think they are dark disembodied spirits (Jesus called them 'unclean spirits') from dead humans, then who knows what they would look like. (least likely in my opinion)
If you think that your own 'spirit' can become so depraved over a lengthy, unusually lofty carnal mind, that your spirit becomes an 'unclean spirit'... a Christian helps you by casting it out of you and you start fresh and new, but if you don't accept Jesus then you're unclean spirit comes back stronger.... then who know's what that would look like, if it would look like anything.

Back to the Word of God we go.

Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
1. So they knew that Jesus was the son of God.

Matthew 8:28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.
29"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"
2. Sounds like they know they are doomed in the future. Do they know the Word of God? Lucifer (an angel) knew the scriptures when he tested Jesus.

Make up your own mind.

I think their is a difference between demons and unclean spirits.

The bible doesn't say demons or unclean spirits are beautiful though. I already addressed this on my first post on here.


Xel'Naga


Quote Originally Posted by moonglow
Jesus and Paul and others could see them. Not sure I would want to though.

God bless
No, you don't want to.

I am sure I wouldn't want too either! There are enough scary things in this world I can see..don't need that too.

God bless

VerticalReality
Mar 20th 2010, 07:25 PM
No, you don't want to.

Personally, I would rather see them than be blind to them. It's difficult to battle an enemy you can't "see."

BroRog
Mar 20th 2010, 07:44 PM
I can see how casting out demons would be a wonderful gift for both those who do battle and those who are rescued. I can also understand the sentiment of those who would not wish encounters with demons on anyone. To those who cast out demons, thanks for all you do.

amazzin
Mar 20th 2010, 07:46 PM
Our warfare is not against flesh and blood my friend

Athanasius
Mar 20th 2010, 08:06 PM
Personally, I would rather see them than be blind to them. It's difficult to battle an enemy you can't "see."

Still, I'm not sure it's something anyone would want, if they truly understood what they were asking.

VerticalReality
Mar 20th 2010, 08:41 PM
Still, I'm not sure it's something anyone would want, if they truly understood what they were asking.

Why not want to see them? Why should a born again follower of Christ fear a demon? Me . . . I pray the Lord gives me the discernment to see them and know when they are at work. To me, one of the main problems in the church today is that too many believers do not have the discernment to see when the demonic is at work.

moonglow
Mar 22nd 2010, 03:05 AM
Why not want to see them? Why should a born again follower of Christ fear a demon? Me . . . I pray the Lord gives me the discernment to see them and know when they are at work. To me, one of the main problems in the church today is that too many believers do not have the discernment to see when the demonic is at work.

I think we can see when demonic things are at work without seeing the demons actually. At least I can. I don't need to see them to know something is going on. The bible also doesn't tell us to pray to see them anyway...but to be aware.

God bless

JLM Lives
Mar 22nd 2010, 05:54 AM
Very intresting post. it causes me to remember what my mom told me. She was in a special meeting. It was held in a gymnasium, a brother was preaching a wonderful sermon and my mom was enjoying it.
she said all of a sudden she saw "little spirits" she said they looked like monkeys. They were on the rafters and all around the building.

as she watched some of the monkeys would jump on some peoples shoulders and start wispering in thier ears. I just wondered what those monkeys were saying to people as they were trying to listen to the sermon. maybe attempting to convince them that what the sermon was about was not for them. things like that. anyway that's what she told me.

other preachers have testified of demons looking like a giant bat. and other creatures.

Therefore I for myself don't think that I could deny that demons may have claws and red eyes. also angels of light.

VerticalReality
Mar 23rd 2010, 01:44 AM
I think we can see when demonic things are at work without seeing the demons actually. At least I can. I don't need to see them to know something is going on. The bible also doesn't tell us to pray to see them anyway...but to be aware.

God bless

I don't disagree with your statement. However, I still wonder why there is such a sense of fear when this topic is discussed.

Whether I actually see a demon manifest or know it is present through discernment, I should have nothing to fear . . . unless of course I'm opening myself up in some way to attack from such a spirit. Otherwise, such spirits are subject to me, and the same is true for every other born again believer walking in the authority our Lord has given.

moonglow
Mar 23rd 2010, 03:44 PM
I don't disagree with your statement. However, I still wonder why there is such a sense of fear when this topic is discussed.

Whether I actually see a demon manifest or know it is present through discernment, I should have nothing to fear . . . unless of course I'm opening myself up in some way to attack from such a spirit. Otherwise, such spirits are subject to me, and the same is true for every other born again believer walking in the authority our Lord has given.

Because most of us don't want to see a nightmare and have that image forever burned into our minds I would think.

And this verse too I think explains our natural aversion to satan and the demons.

Genesis 3
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,

en∑mi∑ty (nm-t)
n. pl. en∑mi∑ties
Deep-seated, often mutual hatred.
[Middle English enemite, from Old French enemistie, from Vulgar Latin *inimcits, from Latin inimcus, enemy; see enemy.]
Synonyms: enmity, hostility, antagonism, animosity, rancor, antipathy, animus
These nouns refer to the feeling or expression of deep-seated ill will.

Especially in light of the verse that tells us to keep our minds on everything lovey, true and pure..

God bless

Ryan R
Mar 23rd 2010, 10:46 PM
What they are in essence and whatever it is that we see may or may not happen to see may be two entirely different things. We are never told to look for demons, just to resist them (James 4:7).

Our perception can fool us, the Bible can't.

Reynolds357
Mar 23rd 2010, 10:57 PM
I read your story.. and from what I read... and what you 'say' is a demon or daemon ie 'devil'...... or from what you saw.. and claim to be a 'demon'.. from the description...

doesn't line up with His Word at all...

demons , devils, daemon in the Greek... these do not appear as ugly hideous creatures.. and their appearance is NOT one of hideous and ugly.. with fangs and claws...

that is what the Great Deciever wants you to believe.. its his deception... and he will do just that... so that his true identity and nature is not revealed...

devils, demons, daemon in the Greek...

their appearance is one 'like their father, diabolos, satanas (satan).. their appearance when the veil is pulled back is one of 'beauty', full of wisdom, appealing to the flesh... not hideous and ugly with fangs and claws... You said God allowed you to 'peer' into the 'spirit world'? well what your seeing is not Truth from the 'spirit world'.....

from what you saw and describe is not what a devil or demon looks like...

satan himself is a decoy artist.. and he will use false revelations, false deliverances, false conversions to cover up his true identity... he is a cunning and crafty creature...

what Hollywood and 'religion' peg as the 'devil' and his appearances is just not True...

he is a liar and the father of it.. and he dupes alot of people into believing something that he is really not.....

many do not 'know' or are unable to comprehend the depths of his darkness.... or the depths of satan... he is a master deciever....

Before you accuse a brother of not being in line with the Word, you might want to read Revelation.

Reynolds357
Mar 23rd 2010, 11:00 PM
Bill, I say this with all due respect, but I think praying that another Christian will see a demon is an extremely nasty prayer. Why would you want someone, even a blood bought born again Christian who is ultimately saved, to have to suffer the demonic, just to prove a point? I'm speaking here as someone who has experience of the demonic, and it's not something I would wish on anyone.

Also, I believe that you're wrong in your belief that demons aren't fallen angels. But that's an aside. We shouldn't ponder the imponderables too much, it's bad for us. I don't think Christians should dwell on the demonic, it's unhealthy. And we certainly shouldn't wish the demonic on other Christians.
Seeing demons is beneficial to some. There are different classes of demons. Some are fallen angels, some are not.

Athanasius
Mar 23rd 2010, 11:06 PM
Why not want to see them? Why should a born again follower of Christ fear a demon? Me . . . I pray the Lord gives me the discernment to see them and know when they are at work. To me, one of the main problems in the church today is that too many believers do not have the discernment to see when the demonic is at work.

There are a lot of things you shouldn't fear, but still shouldn't do. I think this is one of them -- you can know when the demonic is at work without seeing the agents behind it.

daughter
Mar 24th 2010, 12:04 AM
Well, as Xel'Naga says, there are lots of things that Christians shouldn't fear, but shouldn't seek.

For example, I know Christians who have suffered the most excruciating pain and suffering, and are living examples of God's grace. However, we don't go willingly seeking pain and suffering. I'm thinking of my husband and Mieke here... I mean real, deep, terrible pain which most of us couldn't bear. Yet God gives grace in these circumstances.

We shouldn't seek pain and suffering. We should be ready for it, because God can be glorified in it, but wouldn't we look amiss at a Christian who actively sought pain, knowing that it's only transitory, and not a thing to be ultimately feared?

Similarly, we should be ready to battle demons, but we shouldn't seek them out.

VerticalReality
Mar 24th 2010, 02:06 AM
Well, as Xel'Naga says, there are lots of things that Christians shouldn't fear, but shouldn't seek.

For example, I know Christians who have suffered the most excruciating pain and suffering, and are living examples of God's grace. However, we don't go willingly seeking pain and suffering. I'm thinking of my husband and Mieke here... I mean real, deep, terrible pain which most of us couldn't bear. Yet God gives grace in these circumstances.

We shouldn't seek pain and suffering. We should be ready for it, because God can be glorified in it, but wouldn't we look amiss at a Christian who actively sought pain, knowing that it's only transitory, and not a thing to be ultimately feared?

Similarly, we should be ready to battle demons, but we shouldn't seek them out.

I can't speak for everyone, but I'm certainly not saying that folks need to be hanging out with demons or seeking them out to be pals or something.

However, Jesus sent the 70 out for a purpose . . . and part of that purpose was seeking out those in bondage to these demons in order to free them of such oppression. His disciples were seeking out to expose and expel the enemy. We all have the same calling . . .

moonglow
Mar 24th 2010, 02:39 AM
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm certainly not saying that folks need to be hanging out with demons or seeking them out to be pals or something.

However, Jesus sent the 70 out for a purpose . . . and part of that purpose was seeking out those in bondage to these demons in order to free them of such oppression. His disciples were seeking out to expose and expel the enemy. We all have the same calling . . .

Does it say they could actually see the demons though? I don't think so. Like I said before, I think its very possibly to know when someone is possessed or oppressed with evil spirits or demons without actually seeing them. I know that has been my experience and I was able to rebuke them without actually seeing them.

God bless

VerticalReality
Mar 24th 2010, 03:04 AM
Does it say they could actually see the demons though? I don't think so. Like I said before, I think its very possibly to know when someone is possessed or oppressed with evil spirits or demons without actually seeing them. I know that has been my experience and I was able to rebuke them without actually seeing them.

God bless

But my point is does it really matter? Does the demon have some sort of extra significance if we can see them as opposed to just discerning their presence? Will the demon be more difficult to cast out on such an occasion? I don't think it really matters much how we know they're there. They are subject to the believer regardless of how they manifest.

moonglow
Mar 24th 2010, 03:08 AM
But my point is does it really matter? Does the demon have some sort of extra significance if we can see them as opposed to just discerning their presence? Will the demon be more difficult to cast out on such an occasion? I don't think it really matters much how we know they're there. They are subject to the believer regardless of how they manifest.

I think our point is though the bible never says we need to see them.

I think if we needed too so we could be more effective in spiritual warfare, we would all see them, God would make sure we did, but we just don't so apparently to Him its not needed.

God bless

VerticalReality
Mar 24th 2010, 03:23 AM
I think our point is though the bible never says we need to see them.

I think if we needed too so we could be more effective in spiritual warfare, we would all see them, God would make sure we did, but we just don't so apparently to Him its not needed.

God bless

I think if you know they are there you do "see" them. You're just using the eyes that Jesus talked about. I'm not saying that people never actually see demons with their physical eyes, but if this does take place I believe it is extremely rare. Let's just say I'm very cautious about such testimonies. I mean what sort of physical, flesh and blood type appearance would a demon really have? I'm also very skeptical of those who describe demons in a very Hollywood type manner.

I believe I have seen angels and demonic spirits through visions and things like that . . . but I've never physically seen any demon ever.

moonglow
Mar 24th 2010, 03:31 AM
I think if you know they are there you do "see" them. You're just using the eyes that Jesus talked about. I'm not saying that people never actually see demons with their physical eyes, but if this does take place I believe it is extremely rare. Let's just say I'm very cautious about such testimonies. I mean what sort of physical, flesh and blood type appearance would a demon really have? I'm also very skeptical of those who describe demons in a very Hollywood type manner.

I believe I have seen angels and demonic spirits through visions and things like that . . . but I've never physically seen any demon ever.

I am too actually. I don't believe demons have bodies at all but are just spirits..otherwise they couldn't possess people in the first place. I think what people may 'see' is their character ...like satan being described as a beast in Revelation..or a dragon. Those are his character..his personality. I have seen demons in my dreams which is why I don't want to see them awake!

God bless

Ryan R
Mar 24th 2010, 06:18 PM
I am too actually. I don't believe demons have bodies at all but are just spirits..otherwise they couldn't possess people in the first place. I think what people may 'see' is their character ...like satan being described as a beast in Revelation..or a dragon. Those are his character..his personality. I have seen demons in my dreams which is why I don't want to see them awake!

God bless

Exactly. There ain't nothing pretty about demonic activity, and Satan is good at fooling people, so the only things we need to know about him are what we're told in the Bible. Anything else will be tainted by how he wants himself framed, since he is the god of this world, as per 2 Corinthians.

Just keep your eyes on Christ, otherwise we run the risk of falling into traps: "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" (2 Corinthians 4:4).

subarctic_guy
Apr 1st 2010, 10:12 AM
If you think they are dark disembodied spirits (Jesus called them 'unclean spirits') from dead humans . . . your spirit becomes an 'unclean spirit' . . . I think their is a difference between demons and unclean spirits.

Hey RockSolid, I have never heard this concept of humans dying and becoming unclean spirits, or of a difference between demons and unclean spirits. Would you share how you came to these conclusions?

RockSolid
Apr 2nd 2010, 07:52 PM
Hey RockSolid, I have never heard this concept of humans dying and becoming unclean spirits, or of a difference between demons and unclean spirits. Would you share how you came to these conclusions?

I don't believe humans die and become unclean spirits, I was just saying that might be a belief by someone.

But I do believe there is a difference between fallen angels and unclean spirits. Why would fallen angels feel the need to possess someone?... are they even able to possess someone? If fallen angels possess people, then do God's angels possess some as well? Why would their be 2000 of them hanging out in one man on the outskirts of town and then asked to be thrown into a herd of pigs? Angels are beings created by God to be messengers and can appear in bodily form, they don't need a body to possess.

chad
Apr 2nd 2010, 08:22 PM
Hi Daughter,

What did they look like?


I have seen demons, both before and after I was saved. It's certainly not something I would pray for another Christian to see.

daughter
Apr 2nd 2010, 10:43 PM
Hi Daughter,

What did they look like?
I'm not particularly happy to discuss it, but like an unclean thing. If God wants someone to know, He'll tell them.

chad
Apr 3rd 2010, 09:50 AM
Interesting point. I thought all humans that died went to sheol (Hades).

The bible does mention both evil spirits as well as unclean spirits and unclean devils.

In the Old Testament (KJV) it mentions evil spirits from God in 1 Sam 16:14-16; 1 Sam 16:23, 1 Sam 18:10, 1 Sam 19:9, 1 Judges 9:23 - from The Hebrew words Ra H7451 Ruwach H7307.

In the New Testament (KJV) it mentions unclean spirits Akathartos G169 Pneuma G4151 in Mathew 12:43, Mk 1:23-26, Mk 3:30, Mk 5:2, Mk 5:8, Mk 7:25, Mk 9:25, Luke 8:29, Luke 11:24.

Unclean Devils - Akathartos G169 Daimonion G1140 in Luke 4:33, Luke 9:42

And Evil Spirits - Translated Poneros G4190 Pneuma G4151 in Acts 19:15-16.

And in Revelation 18:2 KJV, it refers to both the habitation of devils (Daimon G1142 ) and the hold of foul spirits = evil spirits (Akathartos G169 Pneuma G4151).

(Rev 18:2 KJV) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.



Hey RockSolid, I have never heard this concept of humans dying and becoming unclean spirits, or of a difference between demons and unclean spirits. Would you share how you came to these conclusions?

subarctic_guy
Apr 3rd 2010, 11:25 AM
I don't believe humans die and become unclean spirits, I was just saying that might be a belief by someone.

Oh, i see now.


But I do believe there is a difference between fallen angels and unclean spirits. . . .Angels are beings created by God to be messengers and can appear in bodily form, they don't need a body to possess.

yeah, i still don't see it. i think spiritual beings that serve God are angels and th ones who rebel are demons/fallen angels/unclean spirits. It seems that the terms are interchangeable in the bible. (i could be wrong on this). An angel wouldn't posess a human unless God commanded them to -and I doubt that would happen. I still wonder if spiritual beings can become physical or only appear to do so. btw unclean spirits don't need to posess a human: they went into pigs, and then were not in a body after the pigs drowned.

Butch5
Apr 3rd 2010, 11:40 AM
Personally, I would rather see them than be blind to them. It's difficult to battle an enemy you can't "see."

Agreed, I think the problem is that we as Christians are not battling the enemy, at least here in America.

RockSolid
Apr 3rd 2010, 10:32 PM
Oh, i see now.



yeah, i still don't see it. i think spiritual beings that serve God are angels and th ones who rebel are demons/fallen angels/unclean spirits. It seems that the terms are interchangeable in the bible. (i could be wrong on this). An angel wouldn't posess a human unless God commanded them to -and I doubt that would happen. I still wonder if spiritual beings can become physical or only appear to do so. btw unclean spirits don't need to posess a human: they went into pigs, and then were not in a body after the pigs drowned.

Well, the good thing about this kind of debate is that it doesn't really matter in the grand scope of things. The gospel is not changed whether you're right, i'm right, or we're both wrong. I'm perfectly fine with lumping them all together, heh.

napsnsnacks
Apr 5th 2010, 09:19 AM
Encounter with a demon.
After I went through the six weeks of extreme warfare with the devil and his demons, I started praying, Father in Jesus Holy name let me look into the spirit world and see the demons, let me see my enemy.
Now I know you have all heard the saying, be careful what you pray for you may get it.
When the Lord set me free from the bad drinking habit I had, I started working with an alcoholic group, it wasnít AA, but a group run by the state. I was told I could help out , but they didnít allow Bibles to be brought in. I couldnít bring my Bible, of course that didnít stop me from telling everyone there about our loving Lord Jesus and His mighty miracle working power.
I received a phone call from the lady in charge about one oíclock in the afternoon( now this lady was a Christian and had heard about spiritual warfare, she just didnĎt know what to do) she said can you come up here I have a couple I want you to talk to. It so happened I was on vacation that week so I went.
When I got to the office the lady in charge was setting behind the desk which was a large desk, the couple was setting in front, so I got a chair and set behind it on side of the lady in charge. The husband was setting on the far corner of the desk away from me.
She said I want you to listen to what this young lady has to say, referring to the manís wife. They were a married couple in their mid thirties.
The wife starting telling me what happened when her husband got drunk ( he had a bad drinking problem) she said I donít know if I should tell you this you will think Iím crazy. I said go ahead tell me whatís going on. Then she starting telling me how when her husband got drunk his face would change and not look human anymore, his tongue would come out like a snake, foul looking stuff would ooze out of his mouth, he spoke in a raspy voice that wasnít his and filthy words would come out calling her all kinds of bad names. ( she told me her brother had a drinking problem then one night he seen her husband do this and he quit drinking)
As she was telling me this I looked over at her husband and got the shock of my life. Standing behind her husband was this thing ( a demon) about five feet tall and about three feet wide, itís face looked like it was crossed up between a man and an animal. It didnít have a nose, but had two slits where itís nose should have been, it had red glowing eyeís, and it had bright red lips like a woman with to much lipstick on. It didnít have teeth, but yellow fangs dripping with slime in itís mouth, itís hair was long and going straight up and out, it didnít look like hair but like long black bristles . It didnít have fingers but long yellow claws which it had on the top of the manís shoulders. Itís skin looked like tanned leather and grossly looking. Hollywood can close to what demons look like in their horror movies but when you see one for real it sets your heart to pumping. Talk about getting weak in the knees, I mean my legs starting shaking. I looked at the woman in charge and the manís wife their faces didnít looked shocked so I knew they didnít see what I was seeing. As I looked over at the man the demon took it claws off the manís shoulders and backed up.
Talk about praying, I didnít hear what the woman was saying I was calling out to God in my spirit. Father what do I do? Help me my Lord Jesus! I looked back at the man and the thing had itís claws back on his shoulders, but each time I looked at it , the demon backed up.
As I was calling out to our Lord, I felt those living waters start churning up inside me, as the Holy Spirit moved. All of a sudden a peace come upon me like I had never felt, all fear left me and the Holy Spirit was all over me. 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, then he that is in the world.
I told the man stand up, he looked at me kind of funny I guess because I said it real loud.( I want to say right here, you donít talk the devil or demons out of or away from anybody, you command them out in the Holy name of Jesus.) As the man stood up I took his hands in mine, then I said in a loud voice, you foul spirit that is destroying this man and his family I command you in the Holy name of Jesus Christ to loose him and be gone. All of a sudden the power of God hit us both and we went to our knees, that thing (the demon cried out with a loud voice and a growl, now the woman in charge and the manís wife didnít see the demon, but they heard the growl come out of manís mouth. ) and was gone. A glow appeared on the manís face and his eyeís took on a shine. The lady in charge and the manís wife set there in shock. They were from a town a good ways from were we lived. I prayed with them and for them, and told them to find a good church were they lived and go to it. I asked them to come to our church, but it would have been a far drive for them three times a week. I gave the man my phone number and told him if he ever needed me to call, I never have heard from him so I believe all is well with them. Since then on several occasions I have seen demons as God allowed me to look into the spirit world, let me say itís not for the faint of heart. So if you donít want to see demons, be careful what you pray for you may get it. I have also have seen Holy angels they are wonderful.
God bless,
Saved 1982 (Bill)

To make a long story short, someone is mentally ill and having hallucinations, possibly even from a direct influence of a foul spirit itself to deceive.

Someone should stay away from whoever it is putting this stuff into their minds and since this doctrine is very unique to Pentecostals and Charismatics you may want to avoid them and in doing that you become one of the few people that a foul spirit won't even bother with.

Sorry but there no way to sugarcoat or minimize something like this since I spent far too many years with those people to know that their very practices and beliefs make them victims of and a magnet that attracts foul spirits since they rarely mess with anyone else. Even Devil worshipers are not as commonly possessed as these are. My experience is that they don't cast out demons, they put them in since under their ministrations an otherwise normal person who has some minor issue in life can become a madman frothing at the mouth.

The root cause of most of that is they invite demons in by actually believing that Christians can be inhabited by demons.

Slug1
Apr 5th 2010, 01:07 PM
The root cause of most of that is they invite demons in by actually believing that Christians can be inhabited by demons.The man wasn't Christian and the OP delivered him of that demon. All the OP did was what Christains are commanded to do as we are obedient to the leading of the Holy Spirit. It's been awhile since I read this thread but he did help lead this man ot Christ as well. More "Christians" should be out there doing this for God (as the Great Commission states) so more can be healed of their afflictions due to demons in their flesh and then led to Christ.

Why is it when people are led to do God's work only through an empowerment through Jesus and executed by the Holy Spirit... are these Christians suddenly labeled... charismatic or Pentecostal?

I see this all over the board... Holy Spirit empowers a person, they post a testimony, they get attacked by others on the board and either labeled charismatic/Pentecostal, or they say it didn't really happen or worse, that it's not of God, is of the devil... which according to scripture is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit... I don't understand. Actually I do understand as the enemy doesn't want the fact that God is actually using servants today in miraculous ways even today.

It would be great if all servants of God did what the Bible instructs us to do... but then we'd all be labeled charismatic and Pentecostal :hmm:

The Bible instructs us what to do, just not "how" to do and this is where obedience to God's will come in, this is where "in Christ" produces fruit that glorifies God. This is where surrender to the movement of the Holy Spirit is a part of a Christians walk in Christ so they can "follow" the instructions that Christ has given us... we don't have to "know" the "HOW", we just have to let the Holy Spirit do His work so we can "allow" Jesus to do the work He told us that we'll do for Him.

Not many Christians want to allow the Holy Spirit to work through them in "power" and are satisfied doing their own work for God under their own power and they get beat up... see Acts 19 starting at v13.

But if they did allow the Holy Spirit to use them in power then suddenly they're "Charismatic"... not many can handle this!

Demons left me alone because I was no threat to them at all in my comfortable church and religion experiences. Then the Lord sent me to a... yes, a Pentecostal church and I'm now part of a deliverance ministry. Before this, I was not a threat and they didn't bother with me, no need... what was I gonna do since I didn't allow Christ to use me to help.


Someone should stay away from whoever it is putting this stuff into their minds and since this doctrine is very unique to Pentecostals and Charismatics you may want to avoid them and in doing that you become one of the few people that a foul spirit won't even bother with.You have it backwards... the reason why Charismatics and Pentecostals find themselves dealing with demons is because of the threat that Charismatics and Pentecostals are "AGAINST" them.... they know it, satan knows it. The Lord continues to use us against the powers of satan as this battle is spiritual. After all, Christians who don't believe that demons are actually working against them... how is the Lord gonna include such Christians in the spiritual battle that is raging? God is forced to only use those that allow Him to use them... why? It's because religion has dulled the blades that God has given us to use against satan offensively.

Actually the Lord uses many who are obedient and not just those already labeled... some just keep it under the down low, so their Christian brothers and sisters don't label them.

moonglow
Apr 5th 2010, 01:53 PM
The man wasn't Christian and the OP delivered him of that demon. All the OP did was what Christains are commanded to do as we are obedient to the leading of the Holy Spirit. It's been awhile since I read this thread but he did help lead this man ot Christ as well. More "Christians" should be out there doing this for God (as the Great Commission states) so more can be healed of their afflictions due to demons in their flesh and then led to Christ.

Why is it when people are led to do God's work only through an empowerment through Jesus and executed by the Holy Spirit... are these Christians suddenly labeled... charismatic or Pentecostal?

I see this all over the board... Holy Spirit empowers a person, they post a testimony, they get attacked by others on the board and either labeled charismatic/Pentecostal, or they say it didn't really happen or worse, that it's not of God, is of the devil... which according to scripture is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit... I don't understand. Actually I do understand as the enemy doesn't want the fact that God is actually using servants today in miraculous ways even today.

It would be great if all servants of God did what the Bible instructs us to do... but then we'd all be labeled charismatic and Pentecostal :hmm:

The Bible instructs us what to do, just not "how" to do and this is where obedience to God's will come in, this is where "in Christ" produces fruit that glorifies God. This is where surrender to the movement of the Holy Spirit is a part of a Christians walk in Christ so they can "follow" the instructions that Christ has given us... we don't have to "know" the "HOW", we just have to let the Holy Spirit do His work so we can "allow" Jesus to do the work He told us that we'll do for Him.

Not many Christians want to allow the Holy Spirit to work through them in "power" and are satisfied doing their own work for God under their own power and they get beat up... see Acts 19 starting at v13.

But if they did allow the Holy Spirit to use them in power then suddenly they're "Charismatic"... not many can handle this!

Demons left me alone because I was no threat to them at all in my comfortable church and religion experiences. Then the Lord sent me to a... yes, a Pentecostal church and I'm now part of a deliverance ministry. Before this, I was not a threat and they didn't bother with me, no need... what was I gonna do since I didn't allow Christ to use me to help.

You have it backwards... the reason why Charismatics and Pentecostals deal with demons is because of the threat that Charismatics and Pentecostals are "AGAINST" them.... they know it, satan knows it. The Lord continues to use us against the powers of satan as this battle is spiritual.

Actually the Lord uses many who are obedient and not just those already labeled... some just keep it under the down low, so their Christian brothers and sisters don't label them.

I am Southern Baptist now but I have done spiritual warfare before on a very personal level with my son. And endured spiritual attacks many times before myself. I agree with your post..and also I think it should be known we don't have to be in a Charismatic or Pentecostal church to do these things. :) I totally and completely agree with you about scripture...this should apply to all of us no matter what type of church we go too. Even our pastor acknowledges this too.

God bless

Slug1
Apr 5th 2010, 01:56 PM
I am Southern Baptist now but I have done spiritual warfare before on a very personal level with my son. And endured spiritual attacks many times before myself. I agree with your post..and also I think it should be known we don't have to be in a Charismatic or Pentecostal church to do these things. :) I totally and completely agree with you about scripture...this should apply to all of us no matter what type of church we go too. Even our pastor acknowledges this too.

God bless

AMEN,... I did do that edit because not only charismatics and Pentecostals are used by God to do spiritual battle with the forces of satan. It's just sad that many "denominations" deny this fact and God can't use them and they think they're doing great because satan doesn't approach them in battle. They think they're strong in Christ and it's not that at all, it's because they are not a threat to him at all and he doesn't need to battle them!! This gives him more forces to battle those on the front lines in spiritual warfare... satan doesn't have to spread out his forces against the "entire" Body of Christ because much of the Body of Christ is to busy worshiping and serving their religion and thus... not much use as God needs those who will allow Him to work in power against satan.

napsnsnacks
Apr 5th 2010, 02:34 PM
It is a case of both the preacher and the alleged victim being deceived equally and the first tip off is the description of the demon as you may find in some fantastic art.

Demons are fallen angels. There is no word in the bible about their appearance being changed to any hideous creatures therefore their appearance defaults to what angels look like, except these falling angels no longer have and glory about them.

They are dull and faded.

Even Satan still looks the same as his former self (Lucifer) with the jewels and musical instruments as part of his body except he has no glory and in fact when he shows himself to any man it will be as an "angel of light." That also defaults as to how demons/fallen angels will show themselves.

No professional liar or master of deception such as fallen angels or demons are would ever show themselves as hideous creatures REGARDLESS of whether they look that way or not because they cannot deceive one who ran off in fear like they would from the fictional creature of the black lagoon or chupacabra, except those who did not run off in fear of such a hideous creature.

Even the Catholics, the all high masters of exorcism say that demon possession is rare but these other people do it at every weekday meeting. The whole place is a nest of demonic activity.

Only the Pentecostals, Charismatics and Catholics do not run, just the opposite, they entertain them when anyone else having a life issue just needs or wants some good solid Christian counseling.

Note that it seems that those who believe that demons look this way are forever in contact with them in some form or another.

The imagination overrules sanity and that deception over time became doctrine.

Slug1
Apr 5th 2010, 02:50 PM
See thats the problem, you got it backwards again. The demon doesn't "reveal" itself or "showed" itself to the person who wrote the OP. This is how the Holy Spirit enabled the OPer to "visualize" the demon. The Holy Spirit opened the person's spiritual eyes to see the demon in this way... why so ugly? Possibly the Lord wanted the OPer to "see" how serious and ugly the affliction was upon this man and it was simply represented by the way the demon "appeared". I don't know, it wasn't my discernment.A demon isn't gonna "reveal" itself to a man or women of God who is capable of utilizing the authority they have through Christ to get rid of it. Demons aren't dumb, they'll do all they can to get people to have your opinion so they aren't challenged.

The Holy Spirit is the one who enabled the OPer to see the demon and the power of Christ is what removed the demon once discerned.



Even the Catholics, the all high masters of exorcism say that demon possession is rare but these other people do it at every weekday meeting. The whole place is a nest of demonic activity.I have to agree with you... in 3 years with this deliverance ministry I've prayed with about 5 people and all five had a demon manifest. if you count me, then that's six times and two demons were removed from me.

Yeah, weekly events... :o

Reynolds357
Apr 5th 2010, 02:50 PM
It is a case of both the preacher and the alleged victim being deceived equally and the first tip off is the description of the demon as you may find in some fantastic art.

Demons are fallen angels. There is no word in the bible about their appearance being changed to any hideous creatures therefore their appearance defaults to what angels look like, except these falling angels no longer have and glory about them.

They are dull and faded.

Even Satan still looks the same as his former self (Lucifer) with the jewels and musical instruments as part of his body except he has no glory and in fact when he shows himself to any man it will be as an "angel of light." That also defaults as to how demons/fallen angels will show themselves.

No professional liar or master of deception such as fallen angels or demons are would ever show themselves as hideous creatures REGARDLESS of whether they look that way or not because they cannot deceive one who ran off in fear like they would from the fictional creature of the black lagoon or chupacabra, except those who did not run off in fear of such a hideous creature.

Even the Catholics, the all high masters of exorcism say that demon possession is rare but these other people do it at every weekday meeting. The whole place is a nest of demonic activity.

Only the Pentecostals, Charismatics and Catholics do not run, just the opposite, they entertain them when anyone else having a life issue just needs or wants some good solid Christian counseling.

Note that it seems that those who believe that demons look this way are forever in contact with them in some form or another.

The imagination overrules sanity and that deception over time became doctrine.

I hate to be so blunt, but you simply do not know what you are talking about. You have formed opinions you state as fact. What you have based them on, I have absolutely no clue.
I wish you would support some of your personal opinions you state as fact with scripture.
If you would take the time to read Revelation, you would see that demons do not always appear as angels of light. Can they appear as angels of light? Yes. Do they have to appear as angels of light? According to several scriptural examples, No. What about the legion that was cast out? What about the demoniac who threw himself into the fire? What about the demon possessed woman who hindered the ministry of Paul? What about the demons released with the breaking of the seals, vials, and bowls?

Vhayes
Apr 5th 2010, 02:58 PM
Do I believe demons exist? You bet I do. Do I believe they cause havoc with people? Yep.

Having said that, I would also like to say this; most things that are blamed on "demons" are nothing other than a self-centered human not wanting to step up to the plate for their own actions. It's far easier to say, "The devil made me do it!" than it is to say, "Lord, I made a mistake. I have hurt You and I am sorry. Please help me grow from this mistake."

Slug1
Apr 5th 2010, 03:05 PM
Do I believe demons exist? You bet I do. Do I believe they cause havoc with people? Yep.

Having said that, I would also like to say this; most things that are blamed on "demons" are nothing other than a self-centered human not wanting to step up to the plate for their own actions. It's far easier to say, "The devil made me do it!" than it is to say, "Lord, I made a mistake. I have hurt You and I am sorry. Please help me grow from this mistake."I agree... honesty with God in the confession of sin enables God to heal us. It actually has a name... repentance. This is actally so hard for many to actually do, they pull the scapegoat and have others do the work of a delivernace but there isn't a demon there to remove so the people get louder and louder and louder until the emotions are so high everyone in the church is spilling out onto the floor. In the meantime, the person goes home with no intention of repenting of sin even though they pray the words and they keep sinning and blame a "demon". They need to look in the mirror.

Anyway, anyone who has the Holy Spirit and they exercise the gift of Discernment will "see" that no demon is present and the person only needs proper counseling. Counseling should be done first anyway when possible... but many of those churches "hyped" up on the show and emotion, thrive on that emotion and the show and it is weekly.

I've never yelled once. Nor have those I am with, had to yell... some we have to continue praying and worshiping in the presence of the demon once it's manifested. I've even listened to them call out to satan for help and then in the next moment following another "in the name of Jesus Christ"... they are ejected from the person's flesh... can be messy at times, not all.

moonglow
Apr 5th 2010, 05:23 PM
To make a long story short, someone is mentally ill and having hallucinations, possibly even from a direct influence of a foul spirit itself to deceive.

Someone should stay away from whoever it is putting this stuff into their minds and since this doctrine is very unique to Pentecostals and Charismatics you may want to avoid them and in doing that you become one of the few people that a foul spirit won't even bother with.

Sorry but there no way to sugarcoat or minimize something like this since I spent far too many years with those people to know that their very practices and beliefs make them victims of and a magnet that attracts foul spirits since they rarely mess with anyone else. Even Devil worshipers are not as commonly possessed as these are. My experience is that they don't cast out demons, they put them in since under their ministrations an otherwise normal person who has some minor issue in life can become a madman frothing at the mouth.

The root cause of most of that is they invite demons in by actually believing that Christians can be inhabited by demons.

I agree with Slug..you need to re-read the OP. This man did not see the demon. So he wasn't having hallucinations. He was an alcoholic.


napsnsnacks
It is a case of both the preacher and the alleged victim being deceived equally and the first tip off is the description of the demon as you may find in some fantastic art.

Demons are fallen angels. There is no word in the bible about their appearance being changed to any hideous creatures therefore their appearance defaults to what angels look like, except these falling angels no longer have and glory about them.

They are dull and faded.

Even Satan still looks the same as his former self (Lucifer) with the jewels and musical instruments as part of his body except he has no glory and in fact when he shows himself to any man it will be as an "angel of light." That also defaults as to how demons/fallen angels will show themselves.

No professional liar or master of deception such as fallen angels or demons are would ever show themselves as hideous creatures REGARDLESS of whether they look that way or not because they cannot deceive one who ran off in fear like they would from the fictional creature of the black lagoon or chupacabra, except those who did not run off in fear of such a hideous creature.

Even the Catholics, the all high masters of exorcism say that demon possession is rare but these other people do it at every weekday meeting. The whole place is a nest of demonic activity.

Only the Pentecostals, Charismatics and Catholics do not run, just the opposite, they entertain them when anyone else having a life issue just needs or wants some good solid Christian counseling.

Note that it seems that those who believe that demons look this way are forever in contact with them in some form or another.

The imagination overrules sanity and that deception over time became doctrine.

The bible doesn't tell us what demons look like..it certainly doesn't say they are faded and dull either. The closest we have is this:

Revelation 9
The Fifth Trumpet Brings the First Terror
1 Then the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen to earth from the sky, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. 2 When he opened it, smoke poured out as though from a huge furnace, and the sunlight and air turned dark from the smoke.

3 Then locusts came from the smoke and descended on the earth, and they were given power to sting like scorpions. 4 They were told not to harm the grass or plants or trees, but only the people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were told not to kill them but to torture them for five months with pain like the pain of a scorpion sting. 6 In those days people will seek death but will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them!

7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. They had what looked like gold crowns on their heads, and their faces looked like human faces. 8 They had hair like womenís hair and teeth like the teeth of a lion. 9 They wore armor made of iron, and their wings roared like an army of chariots rushing into battle. 10 They had tails that stung like scorpions, and for five months they had the power to torment people. 11 Their king is the angel from the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyonóthe Destroyer.

http://whatisthepyramid.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Christianandapollyon.jpg

Of course most don't take this description literally...many believe it describes war type machines or weapons. But still, it gives a pretty scary image. Often the bible describes the character of a person or being, like an animals. Jesus is called the Lamb of God. Satan is called a serpent, a beast, ..these things describe their characters..their intent.

So I don't see why the OP couldn't have been seeing the character of the demon.

God bless

VerticalReality
Apr 5th 2010, 05:27 PM
It's unfortunate and saddening that so many Christians today write off the demonic oppression that is on so many people's lives while at the same time the science and mental health field that they put all their faith in continues to fail people with temporary coping mechanisms.

Brother Mark
Apr 5th 2010, 05:32 PM
It's unfortunate and saddening that so many Christians today write off the demonic oppression that is on so many people's lives while at the same time the science and mental health field that they put all their faith in continues to fail people with temporary coping mechanisms.

Amen. I believe there is far more demonic activity than we are willing to admit. If there is temptation, is there not a tempter? If our war is not against flesh and blood, then are we only battling a few days a year?

Vhayes
Apr 5th 2010, 05:33 PM
So - it isn't "me" that sins, it's a demon?

VerticalReality
Apr 5th 2010, 05:36 PM
Amen. I believe there is far more demonic activity than we are willing to admit. If there is temptation, is there not a tempter? If our war is not against flesh and blood, then are we only battling a few days a year?

Jesus certainly didn't have any trouble finding them . . .

moonglow
Apr 5th 2010, 05:38 PM
So - it isn't "me" that sins, it's a demon?

Demons aren't always about sinning..not by a long shot. Look at the boy in the bible that had seizures. He wasn't sinning. Or the man at the graveyard, that cut himself and was just insane. Or the lady with the bent back...on and on and on. None of them were sinning. Its much much more then that. The bible tells us satan is out to kill, steal and destroy...

God bless

VerticalReality
Apr 5th 2010, 05:38 PM
So - it isn't "me" that sins, it's a demon?

I don't think that is what Mark was saying. I think when a person sins it is them choosing to follow after another spirit.

Vhayes
Apr 5th 2010, 05:57 PM
Maybe - but I think more times than not that "other spirit" is self centeredness, pride and vanity. People don't need tempted to put themselves and their wants ahead of all else.

napsnsnacks
Apr 5th 2010, 07:17 PM
The demon doesn't "reveal" itself or "showed" itself to the person who wrote the OP. This is how the Holy Spirit enabled the OPer to "visualize" the demon. The Holy Spirit opened the person's spiritual eyes to see the demon in this way...

That is not the Holy Spirit, it is demonic activity masquerading as such.

Visualizing demons, lol. That is what creative people do with "art" and what they produce in the complete absence of any Holy Spirit as a muse is most identical in description to this other alleged demon.

The imagination run amok.

napsnsnacks
Apr 5th 2010, 07:27 PM
It's unfortunate and saddening that so many Christians today write off the demonic oppression that is on so many people's lives while at the same time the science and mental health field that they put all their faith in continues to fail people with temporary coping mechanisms.

Put your foot down, speak in the name of Jesus, demons flee.

No need for all the trappings of witchcraft and sorcery and praying to and talking to demons to help someone stop smoking or lusting at every woman walking down the street.

Even habitual things and addictions are not demon oppression or possession. I was one of the most chronic alcoholics (so as my dad until he was around 40)that you could have ever met and there was no demon possession.

Now days in those circles of people can be convinced they are possessed (denial, they just cannot accept responsibility and accountability) and need deliverance when these poor souls know what their problems are and are in their right minds compared to those demon possesed in scripture who did not know what their problems were and were not in their right minds.

Reynolds357
Apr 5th 2010, 07:30 PM
So - it isn't "me" that sins, it's a demon?

It is you and I that sin. We are 100% responsible for our sin. However, it is helpful to know if the temptation for the sin we are committing has a demonic root.

Slug1
Apr 5th 2010, 07:38 PM
That is not the Holy Spirit, it is demonic activity masquerading as such.

Visualizing demons, lol. That is what creative people do with "art" and what they produce in the complete absence of any Holy Spirit as a muse is most identical in description to this other alleged demon.

The imagination run amok.What are you talking about? If there are other people in the room, one see's the demon while the others don't... it's not the demon revealing itself as an ugly brute to only one select person. It's the Holy Spirit opening the spiritual eyes of the man of God and allowing him to see, or view, or visualize... whatever your want to call/term it.

We're talking about a real demon and the Lord revealing to the OPer a visualization of it, not some artists rendering of one.

napsnsnacks
Apr 5th 2010, 07:40 PM
It is you and I that sin. We are 100% responsible for our sin. However, it is helpful to know if the temptation for the sin we are committing has a demonic root.

The first route is our own sinful nature and sinful desires, our own thoughts, our own feelings.

Demons cannot possess Christians which is another tip off when anyone says or teaches to you that as a believer covered by the blood of Christ that you can be inhabited by demons and need "deliverance."

napsnsnacks
Apr 5th 2010, 07:44 PM
If there are other people in the room, one see's the demon while the others don't... it's not the demon revealing itself as an ugly brute to only one select person.

It's a disturbed person seeing things that aren't there.

Demons aren't visible.

Name or refer to one demon of scripture that was involvd with any of those poor souls that were possessed as you commonly see in these type circles of people.

Brother Mark
Apr 5th 2010, 07:46 PM
So - it isn't "me" that sins, it's a demon?

Who tempted Eve? Was it Eve that sinned or Satan? What I am saying is that both (myself and the enemy) are involved and far too often one or the other is ignored by the church.

Brother Mark
Apr 5th 2010, 07:47 PM
I don't think that is what Mark was saying. I think when a person sins it is them choosing to follow after another spirit.

Correct. The enemy is involved far more than many of us know. That doesn't diminish our need for maturity and understanding the death of the old man.

Slug1
Apr 5th 2010, 07:48 PM
The first route is our own sinful nature and sinful desires, our own thoughts, our own feelings.

Demons cannot possess Christians which is another tip off when anyone says or teaches to you that as a believer covered by the blood of Christ that you can be inhabited by demons and need "deliverance."First you have to define your definition of possession.

The body is three parts... flesh, soul, spirit. The Holy Spirit occupies only the part called the spirit. This leaves the flesh still available for oppression, control and occupation by satan if we choose to continue to sin and give him authority.

Slug1
Apr 5th 2010, 07:51 PM
It's a disturbed person seeing things that aren't there.

Demons aren't visible.

Name or refer to one demon of scripture that was involvd with any of those poor souls that were possessed as you commonly see in these type circles of people.The Bible states in 1 Cor 12:10 the Gift of Discernment is "for" the discerning of spirits. I don't expect the "way" this gift works to be the same for everybody. Some just know what spirit, some see them, some smell them, some hear them, some feel them. The Bible is clear that some will be given this gift, the how it works... it's up to God.

How is a person WITHOUT this gift gonna tell one WITH this gift how it's gonna work?

Every Christian in the world knows that demons aren't visible... yet through discernment any Christian can know, see, hear etc.

Jesus in all His glory was not visible either... to the eyes of the Apostles. Not until God opened their "spiritual" eyes and allowed at least Peter, James, and John the brother of James to see Jesus for real... not Him in the flesh but in glory.

Don't doubt what God can allow a person to see.

I also need to say this... I understand your concern about demons masquerading, as they do this... another reason for God to bestow the gift of discernment upon the Body of Christ so we aren't fooled and know, see, hear, feel the truth about the ways satan moves against the Body of Christ. More Christians need to exercise this gift, request it from God... but then, many Christians say the gifts have ended... they render themselves and all who follow their opinions and doctrines... ineffective against satan in this spiritual battle that rages around them and they remain comfortable in their religious lifestyles and satan doesn't have to worry about them combating him or his minions on any front line because they have blinded themselves. If God was to open their eyes spiritually, they'd doubt and their brethren in their religion would call them... disturbed or that their imagination is running amok.

Reynolds357
Apr 5th 2010, 09:04 PM
The first route is our own sinful nature and sinful desires, our own thoughts, our own feelings.

Demons cannot possess Christians which is another tip off when anyone says or teaches to you that as a believer covered by the blood of Christ that you can be inhabited by demons and need "deliverance."
Demons can not possess Christians. What does that have to do with anything? The line between possession and oppression is so fine, it only exists in the academic world. Demonized is what the Greek literally says anyway. Possessed is an English concept.
Did demons hinder the ministry of Paul? If Paul had to engague in Spiritual warfare, I doubt you are immune from demonic attack. Unless that is, you have risen to a place of knowledge higher than that of the Apostle Paul.

Reynolds357
Apr 5th 2010, 09:06 PM
It's a disturbed person seeing things that aren't there.

Demons aren't visible.

Name or refer to one demon of scripture that was involvd with any of those poor souls that were possessed as you commonly see in these type circles of people.

What are you saying? Satan has numerous demons. Are you saying that because I have not yet encountered a particular demon that was called by name in scripture that I have not encountered a demon?
I have encountered numerous demons. Most in the lives of others, but one in my own life. When I first began ministry, a demon tried on several occasions to kill me. Through prayer and fasting, The Lord opened my eyes to what was happening. I took authority over him and eventually won that spiritual battle. On one occasion I saw this demon. A couple years later, I was talking to another Christian who had no idea of my experience. He was telling me of an almost identical thing that had happened to him and described the same demon in vivid detail.

VerticalReality
Apr 5th 2010, 09:29 PM
Maybe - but I think more times than not that "other spirit" is self centeredness, pride and vanity. People don't need tempted to put themselves and their wants ahead of all else.

Self-centeredness, pride and vanity is a spirit.

VerticalReality
Apr 5th 2010, 09:33 PM
Put your foot down, speak in the name of Jesus, demons flee.

No need for all the trappings of witchcraft and sorcery and praying to and talking to demons to help someone stop smoking or lusting at every woman walking down the street.

Even habitual things and addictions are not demon oppression or possession. I was one of the most chronic alcoholics (so as my dad until he was around 40)that you could have ever met and there was no demon possession.

Now days in those circles of people can be convinced they are possessed (denial, they just cannot accept responsibility and accountability) and need deliverance when these poor souls know what their problems are and are in their right minds compared to those demon possesed in scripture who did not know what their problems were and were not in their right minds.

I'm not one who really believes today's prototypical ideal of "demon possession." I don't believe people all of a sudden wake up one day demon possessed. I believe they give themselves over long enough to a spirit to eventually become identified by that spirit. That spirit becomes who they identify themselves with . . . either knowingly or unknowingly.

VerticalReality
Apr 6th 2010, 04:29 AM
I'm not one who really believes today's prototypical ideal of "demon possession." I don't believe people all of a sudden wake up one day demon possessed. I believe they give themselves over long enough to a spirit to eventually become identified by that spirit. That spirit becomes who they identify themselves with . . . either knowingly or unknowingly.

I'm going to give an example of this in modern terms . . .

My wife's niece (she is about 23 or so) all of a sudden one day had a meltdown while under the influence of I believe alcohol and some sort of drug. She was admitted to the mental ward out at the local hospital. During her time there the doctors diagnosed her as bi-polar (Kind of funny how that pops up out of nowhere). Since that time she has identified herself as the same. She will freely speak in agreement with this diagnosis. She has now accepted this and given her identity over to it. Of course, she is not in Christ, and she is highly deceived.

I believe this is what happens with a lot of things influenced by spiritual principalities and powers. How many times do people lash out in anger according to their own fleshly lust only to say, "That's just the kind of person I am!" They will give themselves over to this spirit, and the more they do this the worse they will become. Wife beaters don't start out that way. They progressively get worse over time. Over time they continually give themselves over to that spirit until they are identified with it and can no longer control themselves. This is why you end up with people going into fits of rage and killing folks or doing something really harmful to themselves or others. If we live according to our flesh we are subject to the unclean spirits of this world.

Something to think about for a second . . .

I believe one of the largest interpretation errors is the issue of the unclean spirit in Matthew 12. The passage says that when an unclean spirit goes out of a man . . .

Why do people automatically assume that the spirit has been cast out? The passage doesn't say that the spirit is cast out. It just says that the spirit goes out of the man. People make the assumption that the spirit is cast out of a person, but I believe the truth is that people give these spirits access to come and go by not discerning the will of God and being obedient to Him. This is why people over time get progressively worse. They give themselves over to a spirit, and eventually one spirit becomes two . . . two becomes three . . . three becomes four . . . etc. Eventually, this person has given themselves over to such spiritual oppression that they no longer identify themselves with anything else (then you find situations like Legion).

Just something to think about.

Vhayes
Apr 6th 2010, 01:40 PM
It is you and I that sin. We are 100% responsible for our sin. However, it is helpful to know if the temptation for the sin we are committing has a demonic root.

Jeremiah 17
9 - "The heart is more deceitful than all else
And is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?

Vhayes
Apr 6th 2010, 01:42 PM
Who tempted Eve? Was it Eve that sinned or Satan? What I am saying is that both (myself and the enemy) are involved and far too often one or the other is ignored by the church.
Yep! That I agree with completely.

Brother Mark
Apr 6th 2010, 02:17 PM
2 Cor 10 speaks about pulling down strongholds. IMO, it deals with both the demonic and the heart.

2 Cor 10:3-6
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, 4 for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. 5 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, 6 and we are ready to punish all disobedience, whenever your obedience is complete.
NASU

First, Paul points out that the weapons of our warfare are mighty. (We know from other passages that we do not war against flesh and blood.) Vs 6 is interesting. He is ready to punish all disobedience when our obedience is complete. What is that? If I am completely obeying, who then is being punished? IMO, it's the enemy. The walls of sin must be dealt with. If the house remains standing, then the end result will be a worse one.

The enemy lives in a house of sin, a stronghold, built up like Jericho. When we repent, and run to God for help, then he will punish the demons that are still in disobedience. But until we repent, there is no punishing of "them".

napsnsnacks
Apr 6th 2010, 03:32 PM
Who tempted Eve? Was it Eve that sinned or Satan? What I am saying is that both (myself and the enemy) are involved and far too often one or the other is ignored by the church.

Eve was not tempted. That is a long standing Garden of Eden legend.

The Serpent didn't temp Eve, it or he lied to her, she was deceived, believed the lie and ate the fruit.

She TOOK THE FRUIT and ate it.

GEN 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise...

Lying to someone is trickery, not temptation.

Adam on the other hand WAS TEMPTED BY EVE, she OFFERED (tempted) it to Adam:

GEN 3:6 ...and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

GEN 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, SHE GAVE ME OF THE TREE,

GEN 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife (not the serpent or the Devil), and hast eaten of the tree,

Eve was deceived, Adam was tempted and not by the serpent or the Devil.

Bladers
Apr 6th 2010, 04:25 PM
Eve was not tempted. That is a long standing Garden of Eden legend.

The Serpent didn't temp Eve, it or he lied to her, she was deceived, believed the lie and ate the fruit.

She TOOK THE FRUIT and ate it.

GEN 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise...

Lying to someone is trickery, not temptation.

Adam on the other hand WAS TEMPTED BY EVE, she OFFERED (tempted) it to Adam:

GEN 3:6 ...and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

GEN 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, SHE GAVE ME OF THE TREE,

GEN 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife (not the serpent or the Devil), and hast eaten of the tree,

Eve was deceived, Adam was tempted and not by the serpent or the Devil.

Actually, Eve was actually Tempted and Deceived!

Temptation: "If you feel you want to do something or have something, even though you know you really should avoid it, you can refer to this feeling as temptation."

But Adam wasn't tempted. He ate of the tree because he realized what eve have done...
She disobeyed God and he knew of the consequences. All he could have done is say: "GOD THE WIFE YOU GAVE ME DISOBEY YOU, I WANT ANOTHER WIFE"

But he didn't. Just like today, if you really loved your wife. You would do anything to protect/comfort your wife when she has done something wrong. He knew that eve was already changing, the consequences has already began to take effect. So he ate the fruit to comfort his wife.

That is why he said: "The wife you gave me, gave me and i ate!"
He wasn't tempted, He willingly ate!

Firefighter
Apr 6th 2010, 05:05 PM
That is why he said: "The wife you gave me, gave me and i ate!"
He wasn't tempted, He willingly ate!

He said that to avoid the blame and tried to put it back on God...

Equipped_4_Love
Apr 7th 2010, 12:01 AM
AMEN,... I did do that edit because not only charismatics and Pentecostals are used by God to do spiritual battle with the forces of satan. It's just sad that many "denominations" deny this fact and God can't use them and they think they're doing great because satan doesn't approach them in battle. They think they're strong in Christ and it's not that at all, it's because they are not a threat to him at all and he doesn't need to battle them!! This gives him more forces to battle those on the front lines in spiritual warfare... satan doesn't have to spread out his forces against the "entire" Body of Christ because much of the Body of Christ is to busy worshiping and serving their religion and thus... not much use as God needs those who will allow Him to work in power against satan.

So, then, what I gather from your argument is this: that a person's uselfulness in the body of Christ is dependant upon how much or often he/she is attacked by demons? I'm sorry, but I must disagree. I believe that a person can be doing amazing things for God and be divinely protected by God, for whatever reason.

Equipped_4_Love
Apr 7th 2010, 12:07 AM
See thats the problem, you got it backwards again. The demon doesn't "reveal" itself or "showed" itself to the person who wrote the OP. This is how the Holy Spirit enabled the OPer to "visualize" the demon. The Holy Spirit opened the person's spiritual eyes to see the demon in this way... why so ugly? Possibly the Lord wanted the OPer to "see" how serious and ugly the affliction was upon this man and it was simply represented by the way the demon "appeared". I don't know, it wasn't my discernment.A demon isn't gonna "reveal" itself to a man or women of God who is capable of utilizing the authority they have through Christ to get rid of it. Demons aren't dumb, they'll do all they can to get people to have your opinion so they aren't challenged.

.....that is, if the OPer's encounter was truly spiritual. It sounds more like a hallucination to me. Another thing that sort of sent up red flags was that the OPer automatically assumed that because the guy didn't contact him, that everything is okay with him. I would think that if there was that serious of a spiritual encounter, that there would be follow-up on the OPers part.

Equipped_4_Love
Apr 7th 2010, 12:13 AM
It's unfortunate and saddening that so many Christians today write off the demonic oppression that is on so many people's lives while at the same time the science and mental health field that they put all their faith in continues to fail people with temporary coping mechanisms.

I agree. For years I suffered from "manic depression," yet the doctors who diagnosed me were unable to help. I do believe that many mental illnesses are spiritual oppression -- especially when you spend time in a scene that is rife with demonic activity.

Slug1
Apr 7th 2010, 02:11 AM
.....that is, if the OPer's encounter was truly spiritual. It sounds more like a hallucination to me. Another thing that sort of sent up red flags was that the OPer automatically assumed that because the guy didn't contact him, that everything is okay with him. I would think that if there was that serious of a spiritual encounter, that there would be follow-up on the OPers part.

Follow up is possible but not always possible. If you are led out to a remote area of a third world country as a missionary. People there are hungry for God and by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit, He leads you to specific people who have demons in them... whether this discernment is by sight (as the OPer was gifted), smell, feeling, or just straight up "knowledge"... then you were used to cast the demons out of, say... 10 people. The next day, the next town... 5 more demons cast out of people. Next day, a few more. Next day, you fly back home.

Follow up, isn't always possible.

If the Holy Spirit enables you to physically see a demon, it's not for fun and games... theres a person the Lord wants to free of this demon and since you're the one visually seeing it... you're the vessel the Lord is about to use. If follow up is needed, you'll be led to this as well.

Equipped_4_Love
Apr 7th 2010, 02:41 AM
Oh, okay. That makes sense. Thanks!!

So, then, do you believe that all people who claim to see demons have had an actual spiritual encounter -- and if so, how does one discern between the real and the imagined? I ask because I am still quite skeptical about the OP, but you sound pretty certain that it was authentic. Was there something in the OP that tipped you off....something I am perhaps missing?

Slug1
Apr 7th 2010, 03:36 AM
Oh, okay. That makes sense. Thanks!!

So, then, do you believe that all people who claim to see demons have had an actual spiritual encounter -- and if so, how does one discern between the real and the imagined? I ask because I am still quite skeptical about the OP, but you sound pretty certain that it was authentic. Was there something in the OP that tipped you off....something I am perhaps missing?I have seen demons in various forms but this is usually concerning territorial discernment. What I mean is, for example and this will be the only one I give. The house I live in was prayed over due to a series of dreams given to various people, to myself and my wife and even our daughter. Once all these dreams came to our pastors attention, he informed us that we (me, my wife, DD) weren't the only ones receiving dreams. So, he and a few of the intercessors at church prayed over our house. We did a split up prayer partner approach.

A week later I was outside praying to God. It was late Friday, early Saturday about 1:30AM. We got home late from fellowshipping with friends and I told my wife that I was still gonna do my prayers before bed. I tend to pace my driveway while doing some prayers. It was a nice night, full moon, cool temp... ideal time to just pray and I wasn't led to do a kneel down prayer in the back room.

As I was praying, I was stopped... this has happened many times before during prayer and usually I'm led to pray for a person or a situation that was not in the thought process. The Holy Spirit simply leads me into a new direction of prayer and it's usually interceding for a person or a situation at church. I've informed the pastor in the past of these prayers and I am informed the situation is real, even though I didn't know about it.

Anyway, I was led to look over my shoulder at the garage of my house and clearly I could see in the bright full moon light (the house and garage and garage door are all white in color) what looked to me as black waves crashing and flowing all across only the door of the garage. It seemed in slow motion as well. i made note of this and then I was able to continue praying, so I did.

Once I Amened, I turned around and looked at the garage and I watched these black waves of what appeared as water continue to move, flow, and crash across the front of the garage door.

I went inside and woke my wife up as she was already asleep and asked her is she prayed in the garage last week? She didn't with her partner, i didn't with mine. So we did pray over the garage and anointed the doors ourselves then. The main one and the one leading from the kitchen to garage.

Later I found out that no one had prayed in the garage.

The Holy Spirit enabled me to discern that whatever was oppressing in our house was still in the garage, the only area not prayed over and anointed in oil. I visually saw this fact and since then, I have not seen this again, nor have we had the dreams nor "feelings" of unease since then either.

So do I believe the OPer's testimony, I have no reason not to... considering all I have seen and due to all the ways I have been led by God in individual and territorial spiritual warfare.

-SEEKING-
Apr 7th 2010, 03:55 AM
I have seen demons..........

So do I believe the OPer's testimony, I have no reason not to... considering all I have seen and due to all the ways I have been led by God in individual and territorial spiritual warfare.

Wow. That was a chilling testimony. Now I won't be able to go to sleep just yet.

Equipped_4_Love
Apr 7th 2010, 03:56 AM
Thanks, Slug

Oh, I definitely believe in demonic activity, such as you have described, but I am wondering if you believe that there are ever instances where it is not real demonic activity, but imagined? Shouldn't we also use discernment, and not believe every story we hear?

Slug1
Apr 7th 2010, 01:03 PM
Thanks, Slug

Oh, I definitely believe in demonic activity, such as you have described, but I am wondering if you believe that there are ever instances where it is not real demonic activity, but imagined? Shouldn't we also use discernment, and not believe every story we hear?I will also agree with this as well. Written testimony is always hard to discern and I fully understand how many I testify to, call for and put on their hipwaders :lol:

As you can tell though, God has given me testimony and I don't stop testifying despite all the pressure from those who don't believe the testimony God has given me.

We must call on God and hold to all we know and allow Him to reveal to us what we hear from others is the truth and not perception. Perception if a powerful tool of the enemy.

Imagine John, telling you what the Lord opened up before his eyes as he was enabled to see spiritually. Not only did John see Jesus' truth of the future but he had to express it in words and did by the lead of the Holy Spirit. He even tells us that there is stuff he was not to tell us. This isn't the first time the Apostles experience much that Jesus did or told them that was not recorded in the Bible except that it happened and "was not" recorded in the Bible for our knowledge.

We have to deal with this... even in the testimony I just wrote, those black "waves"... this is the only way I can describe it because spiritually it was much more. I can't fully describe the feelings I had (name them, sure), nor can I describe what it truely looked like. What I described in words is only how I can describe it physically but spiritually there was more as when the Lord opens your spiritual eyes, there is much to take in.

Imagine a blind person seeing colors for the first time and trying to describe what they see. Or looking at a large maple tree for the first time in October and all the colors of autumn is expressed in the leaves... then they have to describe the leaves, the bark, the shape, the branches, it's movement in the wind.

Can you describe what wind looks like? Allow God to open your spiritual eyes to see how He "sees" wind and try to describe that to a person who only operates with natural eyes open. Some wouldn't even listen to you.

Once your spiritual eyes are open, it's hard to describe what the experience is like.

I've even had my spiritual sense of smell opened and smelled an over powering smell of roses as I was praying one night... I cried so hard that night. I can't describe how I could also smell each element that made up the overall "rose" smell. It is overpowering but not so overpowering. So I can understand your comments in the PM you sent me. If I saw what you discussed I too would be on my knees but as in the Bible, once the truth is revealed of what is before you, I'd also be able to stand back up. Initially, I'd be overpowered but once corrected, getting back up is possible.

Also, in church when Jesus comes upon a person at the altar or anywhere and they fall to the floor. Many Christians who operate only in the natural, or only in the capacity of religion... contest this. I personally don't like the term used for this but it's still clear, Jesus is overpowering and when He comes upon a person and they go down onto the floor, they're not getting back up till He has completed His ministering.

Slug1
Apr 7th 2010, 01:04 PM
Wow. That was a chilling testimony. Now I won't be able to go to sleep just yet.Soon as we got done PMing you last night, I was off to bed and slept like a baby!! :P

Brother Mark
Apr 7th 2010, 01:24 PM
Soon as we got done PMing you last night, I was off to bed and slept like a baby!! :P

Right. Because one who fears God, has no fear of demons.

Slug1
Apr 7th 2010, 01:37 PM
Right. Because one who fears God, has no fear of demons.Amen, that night when I saw what I did, fear was not in any of the emotions I felt. I did feel comfort, strength, courage, boldness, an anger but not a fleshly anger more a righteous anger toward the evil, humbleness, worshipfull, praise filled... oh, just to recall some. Burdened also... had a job to do and with my wife, we prayed what God placed upon our lips.

cindylou
Apr 7th 2010, 02:21 PM
Right. Because one who fears God, has no fear of demons.



ummmm I found this thread very disturbing. I started reading it while alone at night and it did disturb my sleep, I had to turn on cartoons and turn the lights on and for the past couple days have not slept well and keep checking over my shoulder :(

Slug1
Apr 7th 2010, 02:27 PM
ummmm I found this thread very disturbing. I started reading it while alone at night and it did disturb my sleep, I had to turn on cartoons and turn the lights on and for the past couple days have not slept well and keep checking over my shoulder :(What you're feeling is the perception and the enemy is playing with this. If God allows you to encounter a spiritual demon, the REAL DEAL, you will also be covered as you are now in Jesus' blood. As you may be scared by watching a horror flick, nothing is spiritual, it's emotional.

Sure fear is an emotion but what is the source of fear, the type that causes lack of sleep, anxiety etc... Fear God and He will fill you with strength, courage, endurance, all that is needed to combat the fear that the enemy will use.

Give it over to God, surrender the unease... also, discern what it is in prayer. If such a testimony was false, fear would not be a feeling that God would give you. Fear, fright as you seem to be describing is pushing you away from the testimony, probably causing unbelief, you're searching for your hipwaders :lol:

Lift this all to God and allow Him to minister to you the truth.

Before I was led to look over my shoulder, God had fully prepared me for what I was to see as He revealed it to me.

:hug:

Brother Mark
Apr 7th 2010, 02:43 PM
ummmm I found this thread very disturbing. I started reading it while alone at night and it did disturb my sleep, I had to turn on cartoons and turn the lights on and for the past couple days have not slept well and keep checking over my shoulder :(

Israel was afraid of the giants in the land of Joshua. Those giants were far bigger and far stronger they were. However, God promised them victory! It is the same with us. Apart from God, the enemy is much stronger than we are. But when we are walking with the Lord, he is no match for us.

Josh 1:7-9
7 "Only be strong and very courageous; be careful to do according to all the law which Moses My servant commanded you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, so that you may have success wherever you go. 8 "This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success. 9 "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous! Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go."
NASU

As Joshua marched on the enemy, look at their response.

Josh 2:8-9

8 Now before they lay down, she came up to them on the roof, 9 and said to the men, "I know that the Lord has given you the land, and that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have melted away before you.
NASU

When we walk with the Lord, Satan will do all in his power to intimidate us because he is scared of God in a big way. If he can frighten us, then we won't move out like Joshua did and take him out. If however, we do not fear and understand the power we have in the Lord, he is toast if the Lord is sending us after him. He knows he is no match for the Lord God and the terror of the Lord falls on him too.

Slug1
Apr 7th 2010, 02:45 PM
I can't rep ya Mark... awesome post!

Reynolds357
Apr 7th 2010, 03:06 PM
ummmm I found this thread very disturbing. I started reading it while alone at night and it did disturb my sleep, I had to turn on cartoons and turn the lights on and for the past couple days have not slept well and keep checking over my shoulder :(
If you fear the demonic, you are givng them open invitation to come in and ravage your life.

Keep in mind, Satan is prowling "as a roaring lion." The word does not say he is a lion. His most powerful weapon is fear. If the roar can put fear in you, he has won.

I read a section in a biography of one of the founders of the modern pentecostal movement. He was very gifted in discernment of Spirits and almost daily cast out "devils."
One night he awakened from his sleep because he sensed something in his spirit. He saw Lucifer standing at the foot of his bed. He told Lucifer "Oh, it is only you. I am not about to let you mess up my good night's sleep." Then he rolled over and went back to sleep. That is how little fear he had of the enemy.

Slug1
Apr 7th 2010, 03:20 PM
Yep, intimidation is a tool that satan will use because if it works... we're doing all the work of putting fear in ourselves for him.

Dani H
Apr 8th 2010, 12:49 AM
ummmm I found this thread very disturbing. I started reading it while alone at night and it did disturb my sleep, I had to turn on cartoons and turn the lights on and for the past couple days have not slept well and keep checking over my shoulder :(

I'm sorry. Demons are real though. Their specialty lies in manipulating our minds with fear and intimidation so we don't see them for what they really are ... sniveling, sad, pathetic little bullies whose extremely limited power is never a match for the power of the Holy One of Israel. Because Jesus is equally real, and you are forever safe in Him. :hug: