PDA

View Full Version : Does God care about world peace



WELL
Mar 19th 2010, 06:29 PM
After all, Jesus said Mt 5:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
But what kind of peace is this? Is this revelent to our world today? Or should we not care about how peaceful it is for ourselves and others? I believe it is very important, and the only way we can be a peacemaker is by obeying what Jesus taught in the gospels, not as in the old covenant, as God changed the laws [not all, but some] in the New Covenant. God's peace begins in the gospel! What do you think?

theBelovedDisciple
Mar 19th 2010, 07:04 PM
After all, Jesus said Mt 5:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
But what kind of peace is this? Is this revelent to our world today? Or should we not care about how peaceful it is for ourselves and others? I believe it is very important, and the only way we can be a peacemaker is by obeying what Jesus taught in the gospels, not as in the old covenant, as God changed the laws [not all, but some] in the New Covenant. God's peace begins in the gospel! What do you think?


God's Peace begins in the 'heart'.. and Its there that It will be found...


True Global Peace will come when He returns.. from Heaven..... as He teaches the Nations to turn their spears into pruning hooks and swords into plowshares..... and they will 'learn war no more'.......

Blessed are the peacemakers... His Chidren will strive to be peacemakers... between people.. and those that do that are 'blessed'.....True Global peace will not come until satan is bound at the Return of Jesus Christ... then he that causes confusion and chaos will not be able to influence those on the planet... causing those to 'unwrest' any peace that is established.. this between individuals, familys, and countries... You will have the Head Peacemaker.. Jesus Christ HImself.. ruling and reigning...

WELL
Mar 19th 2010, 07:24 PM
God's Peace begins in the 'heart'.. and Its there that It will be found...


True Global Peace will come when He returns.. from Heaven..... as He teaches the Nations to turn their spears into pruning hooks and swords into plowshares..... and they will 'learn war no more'.......

Blessed are the peacemakers... His Chidren will strive to be peacemakers... between people.. and those that do that are 'blessed'.....True Global peace will not come until satan is bound at the Return of Jesus Christ... then he that causes confusion and chaos will not be able to influence those on the planet... causing those to 'unwrest' any peace that is established.. this between individuals, familys, and countries... You will have the Head Peacemaker.. Jesus Christ HImself.. ruling and reigning...


Yes, I agree with this peace you share about. Do we have any responsibility in being peacemakers here and now[on earth], again relating to; Mt 5:9" Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." Or are we to be peacemakers in another age?

Crosstalk
Mar 20th 2010, 01:03 AM
Jesus is the Prince of peace and He will establish world peace when He returns and sets up His millennial kingdom. Until then He giving sinners what
they want...........a free will to sin. Of course that same sinfulness is what's causing the wars and factions around the world.

Isa. 9:6-7

Reynolds357
Mar 20th 2010, 01:27 AM
After all, Jesus said Mt 5:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
But what kind of peace is this? Is this revelent to our world today? Or should we not care about how peaceful it is for ourselves and others? I believe it is very important, and the only way we can be a peacemaker is by obeying what Jesus taught in the gospels, not as in the old covenant, as God changed the laws [not all, but some] in the New Covenant. God's peace begins in the gospel! What do you think?

God cares about world peace. He will instigate it when Jesus sets up His Earthly kingdom.

WELL
Mar 20th 2010, 08:31 AM
God cares about world peace. He will instigate it when Jesus sets up His Earthly kingdom.

Amen. Hopefully mosy Christians know how final peace will be set up, but my question, do we have a responsibility prior to Jesus return to be peacemakers?

nzyr
Mar 20th 2010, 12:19 PM
Yes God cares about world peace. If people became more like Jesus there would be fewer wars in the world.

From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

(James 4:1-6)

roaring tiger
Mar 20th 2010, 01:52 PM
After all, Jesus said Mt 5:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
But what kind of peace is this? Is this revelent to our world today? Or should we not care about how peaceful it is for ourselves and others? I believe it is very important, and the only way we can be a peacemaker is by obeying what Jesus taught in the gospels, not as in the old covenant, as God changed the laws [not all, but some] in the New Covenant. God's peace begins in the gospel! What do you think?

Hi!!!WELL greetings:
If you will observe the situation at present,we can see that peace is nowhere can be find everywhere.Crime,lawlessness,drug abuse,and so many incidents such as flood,earthquake,famine,
poverty , wars,goverment corruptions and many incidents around the globe.
Jesus said in Matt.10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace but sword.
v.35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his Father,and the daughter against her mother,and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
v.36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
That is the very sad situation of the world today,butJesus is calling upon us;Come unto me,all ye that labour and are heavy laden,and I will give you rest.Take my yoke upon you,and learn of me;
for I am meek and lowly in heart,and ye shall find rest unto your soul.
Thanks and many blessing.
in love of Christ./RT.

BruceG
Mar 20th 2010, 02:50 PM
Yes, I agree with this peace you share about. Do we have any responsibility in being peacemakers here and now[on earth], again relating to; Mt 5:9" Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." Or are we to be peacemakers in another age?

I agree, but the question must be asked "What peace are we to make here on earth?" Peace among nations or peoples outside of God's control? Impossible. Peace between men and a God who loves them? Absolutely.

I like the way Paul said it:

Unto us is granted the ministry of reconciliation whereby we cry "Be ye reconciled to God."

Bruce

WELL
Mar 20th 2010, 06:17 PM
Yes God cares about world peace. If people became more like Jesus there would be fewer wars in the world.

From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

(James 4:1-6)


Wow, how lovely, straight from the practical book James. I feel you've hit the nail on the head.
Yes, Jesus says:Mt 5:13" Ye are the salt of the earth" :and Mark 9:50 " Have Salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another." And Paul: Rom 14:19 "Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another." It seems clear to me we do have a responsibility to be as peaceful as possible.

Jesus does bring a special peace on His return, but this does not excuse us of our responsibility now.

WELL
Mar 20th 2010, 06:29 PM
Hi!!!WELL greetings:
If you will observe the situation at present,we can see that peace is nowhere can be find everywhere.Crime,lawlessness,drug abuse,and so many incidents such as flood,earthquake,famine,
poverty , wars,goverment corruptions and many incidents around the globe.
Jesus said in Matt.10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace but sword.
v.35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his Father,and the daughter against her mother,and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
v.36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
That is the very sad situation of the world today,butJesus is calling upon us;Come unto me,all ye that labour and are heavy laden,and I will give you rest.Take my yoke upon you,and learn of me;
for I am meek and lowly in heart,and ye shall find rest unto your soul.
Thanks and many blessing.
in love of Christ./RT.

Dear RT. Lovely scriptures but I wonder if you get the point? Earth quakes I don t think have got to do with our responsibility of peace, and "v.35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his Father", is not an issue regarding world peace, but an issue between a son and a father. I feel once Jesus gives us rest for our souls, this will impact the way we want to bring more rest for others around us souls too. What do you think?

WELL
Mar 20th 2010, 06:39 PM
I agree, but the question must be asked "What peace are we to make here on earth?" Peace among nations or peoples outside of God's control? Impossible. Peace between men and a God who loves them? Absolutely.

I like the way Paul said it:

Unto us is granted the ministry of reconciliation whereby we cry "Be ye reconciled to God."

Bruce


Yes Bruce. We have the ministry of reconcilliation. Do we have any responsibility with this ministry regarding peace to our neighbour and largley to the world? I'm not asking what is possible or impossible, I'm asking what is our responsibility, and how do we go about it? Why does God speak about peace as quoted above?

Dani H
Mar 20th 2010, 07:24 PM
Yes, He does.

Psalm 46:10
Be still, and know that I am God;I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!

The "be still" actually literally means "stop fighting." Puts a whole new spin on things, doesn't it?

Of course, we'd have to stop the infighting amongst ourselves before we can actually get concerned about world peace. :)

Servant89
Mar 20th 2010, 09:24 PM
After all, Jesus said Mt 5:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
But what kind of peace is this? Is this revelent to our world today? Or should we not care about how peaceful it is for ourselves and others? I believe it is very important, and the only way we can be a peacemaker is by obeying what Jesus taught in the gospels, not as in the old covenant, as God changed the laws [not all, but some] in the New Covenant. God's peace begins in the gospel! What do you think?

No, God does not care for Political peace. Gen Gis Kan obtained world peace through fear. Being anti war does not make anyone hollier. It is written, this world is going downward, things will get worse, not better (2nd law of thermodynamics). This is how the antichrist shall deceive many...

Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

But those that try to make peace between brothers... ahhh, that's gold! The soft answer turns away wrath.

Shalom

WELL
Mar 20th 2010, 09:43 PM
[QUOTE=Servant89;2371112]No, God does not care for Political peace.


You say God does not care about peace. Where do you find this in the scriptures, and related to those quoted above?

WELL
Mar 20th 2010, 09:59 PM
[QUOTE=Servant89;2371112]

Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.


Most translations I've read use the word security, not peace from this quote.[Dan8:25] This quote does not negate God's word where He calls for peace, and it seems as if this person[system] will be destroyed by God's own hand, so perhaps dear servant 89 you have spoken slightly off the topic in your first 6 lines,[or perhaps I don t understand you correctly] but the last 2 are so lovely and to the point; yes may it start with us, as we have peace tween ourselves, and as the world sees we love love one another, they will know we are truly His disciples

roaring tiger
Mar 21st 2010, 05:43 AM
After all, Jesus said Mt 5:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
But what kind of peace is this? Is this revelent to our world today? Or should we not care about how peaceful it is for ourselves and others? I believe it is very important, and the only way we can be a peacemaker is by obeying what Jesus taught in the gospels, not as in the old covenant, as God changed the laws [not all, but some] in the New Covenant. God's peace begins in the gospel! What do you think?



Dear RT. Lovely scriptures but I wonder if you get the point? Earth quakes I don t think have got to do with our responsibility of peace, and "v.35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his Father", is not an issue regarding world peace, but an issue between a son and a father. I feel once Jesus gives us rest for our souls, this will impact the way we want to bring more rest for others around us souls too. What do you think?


Hi!!!WELL greetings;
Sorry,if we did not understanding our context for one another.Matt.v.35 is connected to world peace,as far as I know, peace must start at our home before we look to peace of the world.The scripture I give to you s very relevant
in making peace.If you would read and understand the concept of Matt.10:34-36 you can prove to your self that what I say to you is truth.OT and NT rae both needed as our reference in studying the word of God as what Jesus
said in Matt.5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy,the law or the prophets:I am not come to destroy, it but to fullfil.
In Matt.10:34 This is NT or the gospel of Jesus,hesaid,Think not that I come to send peace on earth:I came not to send peace,but a sword.Do you know the word of God?Heb.4:12 For the word of God is quick,and powerful,abd sharper
than any twoedged sword,piercing into the divding assunder of soul,and of the jonts and marrow,and is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart.How thus it relate to our topic?
In OT Abraham,was called a friend of God.Gen.23:3-4 And I will make thee swear by the Lord,God of heaven,and the God of the earth,that thou shalt not take a wife into my son of the daughters of the Canaanites among whom I dwell.
v.4)But thou shalt go to my country,and to my kindred,take a wife unto my son Isaac.
Gen.28:1 And Isaac called Jacob and bless him,Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.So the wishes of Abraham for his offspring not to take a wife not of his kindred and belong to other country was being observed.
Now,you refer it to what was happening in our present time.Observe those who belong to different sects,if a father is devoute catholic and it happen that his son would like to marry a Jehovah's witness; do you think that they will agree
on there marriage?If,a mother belong to a protestant denomination do you think they will agree if their daughter marry a mormon,surely, no.Then it willbe the start of armageddon in one's house.Now,did you get my point?
Thank you for bearing with my folly,and indeed bear with me.
in love of Christ./RT.

WELL
Mar 21st 2010, 08:02 AM
Dear RT. Lovely scriptures but I wonder if you get the point? Earth quakes I don t think have got to do with our responsibility of peace, and "v.35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his Father", is not an issue regarding world peace, but an issue between a son and a father. I feel once Jesus gives us rest for our souls, this will impact the way we want to bring more rest for others around us souls too. What do you think?


Hi!!!WELL greetings;
Sorry,if we did not understanding our context for one another.Matt.v.35 is connected to world peace,as far as I know, peace must start at our home before we look to peace of the world.The scripture I give to you s very relevant
in making peace.If you would read and understand the concept of Matt.10:34-36 you can prove to your self that what I say to you is truth.OT and NT rae both needed as our reference in studying the word of God as what Jesus
said in Matt.5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy,the law or the prophets:I am not come to destroy, it but to fullfil.
In Matt.10:34 This is NT or the gospel of Jesus,hesaid,Think not that I come to send peace on earth:I came not to send peace,but a sword.Do you know the word of God?Heb.4:12 For the word of God is quick,and powerful,abd sharper
than any twoedged sword,piercing into the divding assunder of soul,and of the jonts and marrow,and is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart.How thus it relate to our topic?
In OT Abraham,was called a friend of God.Gen.23:3-4 And I will make thee swear by the Lord,God of heaven,and the God of the earth,that thou shalt not take a wife into my son of the daughters of the Canaanites among whom I dwell.
v.4)But thou shalt go to my country,and to my kindred,take a wife unto my son Isaac.
Gen.28:1 And Isaac called Jacob and bless him,Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.So the wishes of Abraham for his offspring not to take a wife not of his kindred and belong to other country was being observed.
Now,you refer it to what was happening in our present time.Observe those who belong to different sects,if a father is devoute catholic and it happen that his son would like to marry a Jehovah's witness; do you think that they will agree
on there marriage?If,a mother belong to a protestant denomination do you think they will agree if their daughter marry a mormon,surely, no.Then it willbe the start of armageddon in one's house.Now,did you get my point?
Thank you for bearing with my folly,and indeed bear with me.
in love of Christ./RT.


A quick reply, but will read again later to see if I've missed anything. I feel the major point I was making regarding the change from the old covenant to the new one, begining in Matt 5, and Luke 6, where Jesus says, you have heard what it said, but now I say unto you,[para-phrase], I think reading these passages will help enlighten the understanding abut this change. Do we agree that there is this change? Because if not, I feel it will be difficult to go further on this topic. Jesus came to fufill the yes, and now He has given us even a "higher" law, a more superior one.

Blessings

Servant89
Mar 21st 2010, 07:06 PM
[QUOTE=Servant89;2371112]

Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.


Most translations I've read use the word security, not peace from this quote.[Dan8:25] This quote does not negate God's word where He calls for peace, and it seems as if this person[system] will be destroyed by God's own hand, so perhaps dear servant 89 you have spoken slightly off the topic in your first 6 lines,[or perhaps I don t understand you correctly] but the last 2 are so lovely and to the point; yes may it start with us, as we have peace tween ourselves, and as the world sees we love love one another, they will know we are truly His disciples

That was excellent feedback. Thank you!!! I stand corrected.

:-)

Shalom

WELL
Mar 21st 2010, 10:44 PM
[QUOTE=WELL;2371123]

That was excellent feedback. Thank you!!! I stand corrected.

:-)

Shalom

As long as we love one another, the war is almost won. Keep up the probing. We all need to be kept on our toes. You ARE a blessing!

dave2770
Mar 21st 2010, 10:50 PM
God only cares if you wish to love him or not. Nothing else matters. Your suffering in life does not matter. Your desires for a new car does not matter. Only if you choose to love God, that is what he cares about, everything else is just in your head. World Peace is something God definitely does not care about.

Servant89
Mar 21st 2010, 10:55 PM
God does not care for man-made peace through politics, that is what I meant. History shows all peace treaties were broken. God cares for world peace when his son brings it. Jesus said:

MAT 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

We are in spiritual warfare. Get with the program. When good is silent to make peace, evil wins. Everyone loved Jesus until the Holy Spirit fell on him, and then problems started (the forces of evil went to war).

Shalom

WELL
Mar 22nd 2010, 01:08 PM
God only cares if you wish to love him or not. Nothing else matters. Your suffering in life does not matter. Your desires for a new car does not matter. Only if you choose to love God, that is what he cares about, everything else is just in your head. World Peace is something God definitely does not care about.

Dave, what scripture do you have to back you, if you believe He doesn t care about world peace[that being peace with our neighbours,and with others around the world]?

WELL
Mar 22nd 2010, 01:19 PM
God does not care for man-made peace through politics, that is what I meant. History shows all peace treaties were broken. God cares for world peace when his son brings it. Jesus said:

MAT 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

We are in spiritual warfare. Get with the program. When good is silent to make peace, evil wins. Everyone loved Jesus until the Holy Spirit fell on him, and then problems started (the forces of evil went to war).

Shalom

Jesus is the Prince of Peace, so He must care about it in some deep way. He gave us the gospel of peace to proclaim, so there again , He must care about it deeply in some deep way. Have you thought about this?

In Matt 10 quoted above, Jesus speaks of peace between family members, not world peace.

Yes , our war is not against flesh and blood, I agree 100%! Fleshly war does not bring peace, but if we have the gospel of peace spoken of right where it speaks of spiritual war[see below], then perhaps we have a responsibility regarding peace.
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

divaD
Mar 22nd 2010, 01:40 PM
After all, Jesus said Mt 5:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
But what kind of peace is this? Is this revelent to our world today? Or should we not care about how peaceful it is for ourselves and others? I believe it is very important, and the only way we can be a peacemaker is by obeying what Jesus taught in the gospels, not as in the old covenant, as God changed the laws [not all, but some] in the New Covenant. God's peace begins in the gospel! What do you think?




1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


If world peace is such a good thing, and that God desires it in this age, I then have to wonder why it turns into disaster here?

WELL
Mar 22nd 2010, 04:50 PM
1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


If world peace is such a good thing, and that God desires it in this age, I then have to wonder why it turns into disaster here?

Maybe 1 Thes 5:3 is a little off the topic. Does God care about world peace? Do we have any responsibility in being peaceful here on earth?

The second part is pertinent. Why is there such a lack of peace? A good question, let's try and answer it. What do you think? Is it maybe because we as christians are doing too little regarding the gospel of peace, or are we doing too much?

divaD
Mar 22nd 2010, 06:20 PM
Maybe 1 Thes 5:3 is a little off the topic. Does God care about world peace? Do we have any responsibility in being peaceful here on earth?

The second part is pertinent. Why is there such a lack of peace? A good question, let's try and answer it. What do you think? Is it maybe because we as christians are doing too little regarding the gospel of peace, or are we doing too much?



I didn't really think it was off topic, but since it's your topic, then I guess you would know.:) The point I was trying to make, since world peace requires pretty much everyone being involved, why would Christians want to unite with the world in peace? Doesn't the AC bring in some kind of false peace towards the end? I agree that we as Christians should be peaceful, but the rest of the world needs to unite in the peace of the saints, and not the saints uniting in the peace of the rest of the world. The former I can agree with, keeping in mind I'm referring to the real saints of the world, and not the false religions, etc. The latter...now that's another story.

WELL
Mar 22nd 2010, 07:02 PM
I didn't really think it was off topic, but since it's your topic, then I guess you would know.:) The point I was trying to make, since world peace requires pretty much everyone being involved, why would Christians want to unite with the world in peace? Doesn't the AC bring in some kind of false peace towards the end? I agree that we as Christians should be peaceful, but the rest of the world needs to unite in the peace of the saints, and not the saints uniting in the peace of the rest of the world. The former I can agree with, keeping in mind I'm referring to the real saints of the world, and not the false religions, etc. The latter...now that's another story.

Ok, now I get where you are coming from. You approaching it from a different angle, I see God has called us to preach the gospel of peace. It s a true and sincere peace, but NOT as the world gives. We therefore HAVE a responsibility regarding REAL peace here.

You look at the false peace and "worry" about it s deception, which is a good thing, but I feel we need to get with the first responsibility first, loving each other, preaching the gospel, and making disciples, and by this bringing peace.

No, I 'm not saying the rest of the world needs to unite in the peace of the saints. They need to be born again, and so comes the peace, not in any other way, but perhaps that is what you are saying in short?

So the question still stands, does God care about world peace?

Blessings

Reynolds357
Mar 22nd 2010, 08:29 PM
Amen. Hopefully mosy Christians know how final peace will be set up, but my question, do we have a responsibility prior to Jesus return to be peacemakers?

We have a responsibility to be peacemakers. We must also remember that sometimes, peace must be preserved by fighting wars.

WELL
Mar 22nd 2010, 08:31 PM
We have a responsibility to be peacemakers. We must also remember that sometimes, peace must be preserved by fighting wars.

Isn t this a contradiction. Did Jesus say physical war brings peace?

Servant89
Mar 22nd 2010, 10:35 PM
Isn t this a contradiction. Did Jesus say physical war brings peace?

Actually he has...

Num 33:55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Shalom

James Fourate
Mar 22nd 2010, 10:46 PM
I may not understand the topic but the way I understand it, Abraham had a child with Sarah's handmaiden, Hagar. Abrahams first born child was Ishmael. Once Sarah finally had a son (Isaac) Sarah asked Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael away. Once Hagar and Ishmael were sent away, Hagar ran out of water and placed Ishmael under a bush to die. God heard Ishmael crying. God (or a voice from Heaven) told Hagar to go back to the bush to get her son and promised Hagar that because Ishmael was the seed of Abraham, he (Ishmael) would father a great nation. He of course became the father of what is now the Islamic religion. DISCLAIMER-The exact wording/ spelling may be wrong but the ONLY point Im trying to get to is that God could have just let Ishmael die, but he didnt.

Ive tried for many, many years to understand how this works out in the long run in Gods plan for peace, even after the birth of Jesus. If God were concerned about peace on earth, wouldnt he have let Ishmael die under the bush? If God did not tell Hagar to go back and save her son, the Islamic Nation would have never even existed. This is only one of many examples that leads me to believe God has a plan, we may not understand it but at this time, peace on earth is not part of that plan or is he concerned with it. Is that a fair statement?

Servant89
Mar 23rd 2010, 12:59 AM
I may not understand the topic but the way I understand it, Abraham had a child with Sarah's handmaiden, Hagar. Abrahams first born child was Ishmael. Once Sarah finally had a son (Isaac) Sarah asked Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael away. Once Hagar and Ishmael were sent away, Hagar ran out of water and placed Ishmael under a bush to die. God heard Ishmael crying. God (or a voice from Heaven) told Hagar to go back to the bush to get her son and promised Hagar that because Ishmael was the seed of Abraham, he (Ishmael) would father a great nation. He of course became the father of what is now the Islamic religion. DISCLAIMER-The exact wording/ spelling may be wrong but the ONLY point Im trying to get to is that God could have just let Ishmael die, but he didnt.

Ive tried for many, many years to understand how this works out in the long run in Gods plan for peace, even after the birth of Jesus. If God were concerned about peace on earth, wouldnt he have let Ishmael die under the bush? If God did not tell Hagar to go back and save her son, the Islamic Nation would have never even existed. This is only one of many examples that leads me to believe God has a plan, we may not understand it but at this time, peace on earth is not part of that plan or is he concerned with it. Is that a fair statement?

That is a fair statement. God has a plan and his ways are higher than our ways. God is not interested in peace that Satan can bring about (through antichrist). God is not interested in a peace treaty made by men that were planning all along to go to war. God knows the underlying motives of our hearts.

Listen up. During the reign of Solomon there was peace and prosperity and the ecomony was great. Yet, every time Jesus mentioned king Solomon was to put him down. And during the reign of king David there was constant war and family problems and betrayal and the ecomony was not so good. Yet, every time Jesus mentioned king David was to exhalt him and lift him up. If both were running for president, I would vote for king David. Who would you vote for?

Shalom

Reynolds357
Mar 23rd 2010, 01:31 AM
Isn t this a contradiction. Did Jesus say physical war brings peace?

No contradiction at all. Jesus told his followers there would be a time to fight.

James Fourate
Mar 23rd 2010, 02:55 AM
Excellent point Servant89. I like your posts, no confusion and to the point.

My first reaction if I only read the old testament, would be to vote for king Solomon for "president". I understand it the same way, Gods plans are higher than our ways and we are not meant to understand everything. Our greed and need for power will always doom any peace treaty we try to make. Besides, we have already been told that any attempt would just be failed due to Satans puppet mastering antichrist. It will not be until satan is "bound" that we will have peace.

We would be fooling ourselves to believe God was interested in peace at this moment in time because he is ALLOWING Satan to "have his time". Thank you.

nzyr
Mar 23rd 2010, 01:57 PM
That is a fair statement. God has a plan and his ways are higher than our ways. God is not interested in peace that Satan can bring about (through antichrist). God is not interested in a peace treaty made by men that were planning all along to go to war. God knows the underlying motives of our hearts.

Listen up. During the reign of Solomon there was peace and prosperity and the ecomony was great. Yet, every time Jesus mentioned king Solomon was to put him down. And during the reign of king David there was constant war and family problems and betrayal and the ecomony was not so good. Yet, every time Jesus mentioned king David was to exhalt him and lift him up. If both were running for president, I would vote for king David. Who would you vote for?

Shalom

Neither David or Solomon will ever run for president. Jesus said Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Peace is a wonderful thing. It allows for prosperity, safety, and long life among other things. War doesn't always kill the bad guys. Sometimes innocent people are killed. I know the world isn't going to have true lasting peace until Jesus returns. But that doesn't mean all wars are good and or necessary. We signed a peace treaty with Japan after world war two had ended. Was this a bad idea? I don't think so.

Servant89
Mar 23rd 2010, 11:45 PM
Neither David or Solomon will ever run for president. .

Do you want people to assume you actually believe that Solomon and David will some day run for President? If not, why do you treat me as if believe that. No one believes that. Treat people the way you want to be treated and you will be a peacemaker yourself.


Jesus said Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

AMEN !!! They are blessed indeed.


Peace is a wonderful thing. It allows for prosperity, safety, and long life among other things. .

Yes and history is full of tyrants that made it work. Gen Gis Kahn, Sadam Hussein, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin. Hitler brought Germany from the great depression to the # 1 Economy on the planet. So?


War doesn't always kill the bad guys. Sometimes innocent people are killed. .

Please forgive me if I hurt your feelings, it is not my intention to do that, but when we care more for our resume in the law (how sanctified we look before others), than the safety of our own children, we blew it before God.

Saul was the first one that tried that. God told him:

1Sam 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

But he saved the "innocent" victims and blew it.


I know the world isn't going to have true lasting peace until Jesus returns. But that doesn't mean all wars are good and or necessary. .

AMEN ! TRUE!


We signed a peace treaty with Japan after world war two had ended. Was this a bad idea? I don't think so.

That was a very good idea. One of the few that worked. You are correct on that one.

Shalom

Servant89
Mar 23rd 2010, 11:49 PM
My first reaction if I only read the old testament, would be to vote for king Solomon for "president".

Mine too. I would have voted for King Solomon too had it not been for the NT.

Shalom

Servant89
Mar 24th 2010, 12:32 AM
We signed a peace treaty with Japan after world war two had ended. Was this a bad idea? I don't think so.

Actually before I read your post I thought all peace treaties failed. But you brought to my attention that is not the case. That one actually has worked for 65 years!!!! Great Point!

Let me ask you this: That great accomplishment of obtaining a very successful peace treaty between the US and Japan .... did it come through the minds of peacemakers? I think so.

Here is the best question: Was it accomplished through diplomacy (using kind words) or was it reached by dropping TWO ATOMIC BOMBS on them?

We dropped the bomb the moment that we cared more for our children than our image before the world, than our resume in the law. We did it the moment we cared more for our children than the innocent victims in Japan. Our children are not negotiable. That is how peace is reached with a tyrant. Rom 13 explains that. That police wear a sword, a weapon, a gun and God has given them the authority to use it because with the wicked, they do not listen to words, we need to outgun them.

Shalom

Servant89
Mar 25th 2010, 12:08 AM
When Jesus comes back he will bring 1000 years of peace, but it will be accomplished through two things (because there will be wicked people on earth):

1. The mother of all nuclear holocausts (God himself will burn the whole earth with fire) and the few that will be left and survive that, will get the point (do not mess with God).

2. He will rule the earth with a rod of iron. It is written:

Ps 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And this is how Jesus will rule with a rod of iron... after Armaggedon.

Zec 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

The wicked will never ever listen or change their ways through diplomacy, never ever, they need a strong hand to control them. Peace with the wicked is a deceiving experience.

Shalom

inn
Apr 7th 2010, 12:47 PM
Actually before I read your post I thought all peace treaties failed. But you brought to my attention that is not the case. That one actually has worked for 65 years!!!! Great Point!

Let me ask you this: That great accomplishment of obtaining a very successful peace treaty between the US and Japan .... did it come through the minds of peacemakers? I think so.

Here is the best question: Was it accomplished through diplomacy (using kind words) or was it reached by dropping TWO ATOMIC BOMBS on them?

We dropped the bomb the moment that we cared more for our children than our image before the world, than our resume in the law. We did it the moment we cared more for our children than the innocent victims in Japan. Our children are not negotiable. That is how peace is reached with a tyrant. Rom 13 explains that. That police wear a sword, a weapon, a gun and God has given them the authority to use it because with the wicked, they do not listen to words, we need to outgun them.

Shalom


Forgive me for piping in here, I am sorry, but this quote seems to be a little out of pace with how Jesus said we need respond to evil doers. Has He not quite clearly instructed us in the gospel of Our Lord how we need to respond?

David Taylor
Apr 7th 2010, 02:34 PM
The mis-analysis here, though is that Ishmael is the father of the Islamic religion.

Ishmael wasn't. Mohammed(circa 700 AD), who was born 2100 years after Ishmael(circa 1400 BC), is the father of the Islamic religion.

From Ishmael, came many peoples 20 centuries before Islam was invented by Mohammed.

Islamic historical revisionism attempts to venue the origination of Islam with Ishmael a true biblical character, instead of Mohommed, a heathen born 6 centuries after the Bible was completed.

Genesis 25:12 "Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's handmaid, bare unto Abraham: And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam, And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah: These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations. And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people. And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren. "

When speaking of the the Gentiles coming to faith in Christ in the book of Isaiah, specific mention is made to include the sons of Ishmael in this group.

Isaiah 60:1 "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee. The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD. All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory. "

Islam came from Mohammed, not Ishmael. God blessed Ishmael, and God included people from the nation that he blessed out of Ishmael amongst the numbers of those from the Gentiles who would come to Christ.

Even so, the people whom Mohammed has since enslaved in Islam too, are in need of a true and living Savior, one that isn't found in Islam.

"The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. "

Rick Schworer
Apr 7th 2010, 02:44 PM
God is not willing that any should perish, so yes He does care about world peace. But God would not do one wrong thing to save the entire world - He must remain holy, as that is His number one attribute. Jesus Christ will bring in 1,000 years of peace as prophesied in the end of Revelation and throughout the old testament. But to do this, He will have to take control of the world by might - not by the Spirit. Right now, we are told to win as many as we can by the Spirit.

But in the end, to put it crudly, it will come down to blood, guts, and hair.

inn
Apr 7th 2010, 02:54 PM
"The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. "

I like this end as it speaks of our responsibility, and yes surley God will end it all, He is Omega, but why did Jesus say; "Love your enemies..."

It seems like one is saying above we need to be in the dropping of bombs?

Servant89
Apr 7th 2010, 11:56 PM
Forgive me for piping in here, I am sorry, but this quote seems to be a little out of pace with how Jesus said we need respond to evil doers. Has He not quite clearly instructed us in the gospel of Our Lord how we need to respond?

Yes he has. We are not God. God can judge, we are called not to judge. But that does not remove the fact that the 1,000 year milenium of peace by Jesus Christ will be heralded by the second coming in fire and the 1,000 years of ruling with a rod of iron. That is the only way to ensure peace with the wicked. That is Jesus' approach.

When we care more for our resume in the law, about how well we keep the law, more than the safety of our children, we blew it.

Taking a slap on my face is one thing, letting the wicked rape our children is another thing. Taking to the wicked while they do wickedness to our children puts our religion above providing safety for our children.

1 Tim 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Way too many Christians are heavy into their own resume in the law, which stinks before God.

Those are extreme cases. We are called to conquer evil with good and I try that every day. It works, but there are limits to our patience.

Shalom

Servant89
Apr 8th 2010, 12:06 AM
I like this end as it speaks of our responsibility, and yes surley God will end it all, He is Omega, but why did Jesus say; "Love your enemies..."

It seems like one is saying above we need to be in the dropping of bombs?

We are called to love our enemies, the way we loved Japan after the bombing, we helped them get up and prosper. The bomb saved lives. There are extreme circumtances that call for using weapons (Rom 13).

Lk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he (Jesus) said unto them, It is enough.

Those that say, I do not need to defend my family, God will defend it... we are responsible... Abraham went to war to bring Lot back. David went to war, and he prayed about it. We are called to love our enemies, but we are not called to love our enemies more than our children. That's is selfrighteousnes.

Shalom

dan
Apr 8th 2010, 04:21 AM
...World Peace. That is why He has given you a world filled with war. He would like you to solve it, I believe.

Loving your neighbor as yourself is the second of the Greatest Commandments, so, go, and spread peace.

Oh, by the way, He also allowed His Son to tell you of the way of physical peace, here:

LK 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his court, those things are in peace which he possesseth.

I believe that He also gave an example of what a "good man" would do:

MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

And, of course, He allotted that all of His Followers should buy a weapon:

LK 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

inn
Apr 8th 2010, 06:53 AM
Those are extreme cases. We are called to conquer evil with good and I try that every day. It works, but there are limits to our patience.

Shalom

I agree Servant,those are extreme cases. I feel Jesus' commands need to be obeyed no matter how extreme the cases are. God allowed the bombing of Japan, I so hope it wasn't a christian who pushed the button though, as it would seem to me that this person was not obeying Jesus to love his enemy.
So, yes, I agree with your last statement about patience too. We need to wait for God to sort it out, not our little finite minds. He commands stand firm through all the ages.

inn
Apr 8th 2010, 07:04 AM
...World Peace. That is why He has given you a world filled with war. He would like you to solve it, I believe.

Loving your neighbor as yourself is the second of the Greatest Commandments, so, go, and spread peace.

Oh, by the way, He also allowed His Son to tell you of the way of physical peace, here:

LK 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his court, those things are in peace which he possesseth.

I believe that He also gave an example of what a "good man" would do:

MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

And, of course, He allotted that all of His Followers should buy a weapon:

LK 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Dan, I really like a lot of what you said. I am wondering if you haven't stoped short though and not read the further part of Luke 22, after v36, as Servant points out above, when the disciples come to Him with 2 swords, He says to them;"Thats enough..." If Jesus was instructing them to all have swords, He would have said; "Go get another 10..." I believe He was saying this to test their faith.

inn
Apr 8th 2010, 01:22 PM
We dropped the bomb the moment that we cared more for our children than our image before the world, than our resume in the law. We did it the moment we cared more for our children than the innocent victims in Japan. Our children are not negotiable. That is how peace is reached with a tyrant. Rom 13 explains that. That police wear a sword, a weapon, a gun and God has given them the authority to use it because with the wicked, they do not listen to words, we need to outgun them.

Shalom

Here I wonder too. Is caring about your children who are experiencing no bombs, to go and bomb thousands of people who are not even fighting in any war?
Isn't loving ones children to bring them up by the precepts of the gospel?
Is not what Jesus says very different to out gunning them?

Servant89
Apr 8th 2010, 09:18 PM
Here I wonder too. Is caring about your children who are experiencing no bombs, to go and bomb thousands of people who are not even fighting in any war?
Isn't loving ones children to bring them up by the precepts of the gospel? Is not what Jesus says very different to out gunning them?

It sounds beautiful, tell the army an Air Force to get rid or their bombs.... and see what happens if we get rid of all our weapons.

I just saw last week a documentary about the planned invasion to Japan forecasting 7 million deaths, Two bombs eliminated that.

Mt 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mk 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Lk 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:

http://pavisnet.com/native/firstseal.jpg

To have peace, we need to be strong. Our eagle has arrows but is looking at the olive branch for peace, but to have peace, we need to have the arrows and outgun the enemy. The wicked do not listen to words when they are in the mood to hurt us.

Look at the data on guns in this country, the states with the most gun control laws and less liberty to own guns have the most crime. Look at Mexico where guns are not allowed.

Those in this country that are pro-gun are the consevative Christian right wing. The liberals want to get guns from the public. The liberals want to allow abortion to continue and allow gay marriage. I am not a liberal. I am a conservative Christian.

The law was written for the unrighteous, not the righteous.

1 Tim 1:9 (http://webnet77.com/cgi-bin/bible/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=54&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Eccles 8:11 (http://webnet77.com/cgi-bin/bible/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=21&CHAP=8&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

Therefore... let them have it!!!!!

Eccles 3: (http://webnet77.com/cgi-bin/bible/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=21&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=8)1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

My children are not negotiable.

Shalom

Servant89
Apr 9th 2010, 01:28 AM
<<Look at me, look at me, I am so holy and righteous, I hate violence, I hate guns, I can not even think of hurting the innocent children of our enemies, I have such a heart for mercy and love, I cant stand the thought of hunting or hurting even animals, I do not understand how someone that calls himself a Christian can be in the military, training to kill other people? how can a Christian kill others? aren't we supposed to love our enemies? >>

Nope, that's not me. I do not have any problem being a weapon's officer in a B-2 bomber, regardless of the bombs we carry (conventional or nuclear). I am a fan of Abraham, that when someone stole his nephew, he went to war and got him back.

King Saul had a religious trip, saying: "Oh, I cant kill women and children, I know God asked me to do that, but I am too tenderhearted to do such thing. What would people think of me? I fear for their opinion." The Lord's answer was:

1 Sam 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

That is the God that I serve and I love the way he does business. I can't wait to see Jesus rulling this world with a rod of iron and showing those that do not know his word who he really is. He came as a lamb, but he is returning as the Lion of Judah. Yes Lord Jesus, the Spirit and the bride say come, come quickly and show this world how to get 1,000 years of peace (Jesus' style).

Shalom

inn
Apr 9th 2010, 10:28 AM
Dear Servant
Firstly Servant, you didnot answer my questions, so I will ask it again
1. Is caring about your children who are experiencing no bombs, to go and bomb thousands of people who are not even fighting in any war?
2.Isn't loving ones children to bring them up by the precepts of the gospel?
3. Is not what Jesus says very different to out gunning them?
Highly unlikely that this will happen,..."see what happens if we get rid of all our weapons".
so we probably will see when God shows us one day how easy it is for Him to wipe out any entire army with out the use of any bomb, He truly is mighty!
You quoted below Mt , but it is actualy Luke.
Mt 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mk 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Lk 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:

All 3 of these quotes are not speaking of war at all Servant, it is good to go back and read them again. Luke 11 is about demons, Mk 3 and which you thought was Mt is about keeping our lamps burning,v35.

4.Do you think that Jesus in one breath will say ;"Love your enemies." and in another tell us to hate/kill them?
Please answer the questions Servant, this is a way of reasoning, so I can know exactly on which verse of Jesus we are in agreement / disagreement with.

This is all I have time for now, need to get going.

Blessings

chad
Apr 9th 2010, 11:42 AM
I think God wants to bring peace, but not in the way that the world defines.

God is a god of peace (1 Cor 14:33). Through Christ Jesus, we find peace with God. God desires that his people live in peace. That is peace within themselves and peace with others. Paul writes in Romans 8:6 that to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Peace is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.



After all, Jesus said Mt 5:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus%20king%20lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
But what kind of peace is this? Is this revelent to our world today? Or should we not care about how peaceful it is for ourselves and others? I believe it is very important, and the only way we can be a peacemaker is by obeying what Jesus taught in the gospels, not as in the old covenant, as God changed the laws [not all, but some] in the New Covenant. God's peace begins in the gospel! What do you think?

AndrewBaptistFL
Apr 9th 2010, 12:06 PM
God knows that there will never be world peace, however, we are called to love our neighbors (whether near or distant).

Servant89
Apr 9th 2010, 11:00 PM
Dear Servant
Firstly Servant, you didnot answer my questions, so I will ask it again
1. Is caring about your children who are experiencing no bombs, to go and bomb thousands of people who are not even fighting in any war?

In the case of bombing Japan, yes, that is caring for our children. We saved a lot of american and japanese lives doing that. And it resulted in the most awesome peace treaty ever signed.


2.Isn't loving ones children to bring them up by the precepts of the gospel?

AMen to that.


3. Is not what Jesus says very different to out gunning them??

I quoted the Scriptures.


Highly unlikely that this will happen,..."see what happens if we get rid of all our weapons".
so we probably will see when God shows us one day how easy it is for Him to wipe out any entire army with out the use of any bomb, He truly is mighty!

He is mighty but he wants us to be responsible for what we are accountable for.


4.Do you think that Jesus in one breath will say ;"Love your enemies." and in another tell us to hate/kill them? Blessings

Thank you for the blessings, I appreciate that.

Love your enemies stands, but we need to have priorities in our lives. Loving our enemies above our family or church members is not right.

Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

If we have to kill to save our family and to preserve our liberty, we have to decide what we love most, our family or our reputation relative to God's law. I am here to tell you, the Lord does not care for how well we keep the law (if we do it to impress him), our righteousness is a filthy rag. He rather surrounds himself with grateful sinners than self righteous saints.

Shalom

inn
Apr 10th 2010, 12:37 AM
Dear Servant
I'll go through your answers one by one.

1. Is caring about your children who are experiencing no bombs, to go and bomb thousands of people who are not even fighting in any war?
S.A. stands for Servants answer.
"In the case of bombing Japan, yes, that is caring for our children. We saved a lot of american and japanese lives doing that. And it resulted in the most awesome peace treaty ever signed."
I.A stands for inn's answer
I believe that bombing is never an act of love, Servant maybe you need to take a look at what love is in the light of Rom13:10 "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour." Tell me Servant, do you truly believe in the light of Rom 13:10 above, that this was really love by bombing Japan?

2.Isn't loving ones children to bring them up by the precepts of the gospel?
S.A.
"AMen to that."
I.A. In the gospel is Mt 5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

3. Is not what Jesus says very different to out gunning them??
S.A.
"I quoted the Scriptures. "
I.A. As I mensioned in my previous post; the lack of context to these scriptures, you seemed to overlook this?

I.A.
Highly unlikely that this will happen,..."see what happens if we get rid of all our weapons".
so we probably will see when God shows us one day how easy it is for Him to wipe out any entire army with out the use of any bomb, He truly is mighty!
S.A.
He is mighty but he wants us to be responsible for what we are accountable for.
I.A. "He is mighty but..." Isn't this perhaps an expression of He can't do it without our little bombs? I mean little in comparison to His glorious might!

4.Do you think that Jesus in one breath will say ;"Love your enemies." and in another tell us to hate/kill them?
S.A."Love your enemies stands, but we need to have priorities in our lives. Loving our enemies above our family or church members is not right."
I.A. In light of Rom 13:10 quoted above and many other passages, it is loving our enemies and our closest ones, they are not in contradiction, they need to be obeyed at the same time. Titus3:2 Instructs us;"To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. " It seems very clear no matter what political persuation one is of. And especialy dropping bombs in a country 1 000s of miles away is a gross violation of what Jesus commanded. And dropping bombs is certianly NOT an act of gentleness and harmlessness that Jesus commands;
Mt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. "

Many more blessings, much more peace
inn

Servant89
Apr 10th 2010, 01:21 PM
Dear Servant
I'll go through your answers one by one.

1. Is caring about your children who are experiencing no bombs, to go and bomb thousands of people who are not even fighting in any war?
S.A. stands for Servants answer.
"In the case of bombing Japan, yes, that is caring for our children. We saved a lot of american and japanese lives doing that. And it resulted in the most awesome peace treaty ever signed."
I.A stands for inn's answer
I believe that bombing is never an act of love, Servant maybe you need to take a look at what love is in the light of Rom13:10 "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour." Tell me Servant, do you truly believe in the light of Rom 13:10 above, that this was really love by bombing Japan?

2.Isn't loving ones children to bring them up by the precepts of the gospel?
S.A.
"AMen to that."
I.A. In the gospel is Mt 5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

3. Is not what Jesus says very different to out gunning them??
S.A.
"I quoted the Scriptures. "
I.A. As I mensioned in my previous post; the lack of context to these scriptures, you seemed to overlook this?

I.A.
Highly unlikely that this will happen,..."see what happens if we get rid of all our weapons".
so we probably will see when God shows us one day how easy it is for Him to wipe out any entire army with out the use of any bomb, He truly is mighty!
S.A.
He is mighty but he wants us to be responsible for what we are accountable for.
I.A. "He is mighty but..." Isn't this perhaps an expression of He can't do it without our little bombs? I mean little in comparison to His glorious might!

4.Do you think that Jesus in one breath will say ;"Love your enemies." and in another tell us to hate/kill them?
S.A."Love your enemies stands, but we need to have priorities in our lives. Loving our enemies above our family or church members is not right."
I.A. In light of Rom 13:10 quoted above and many other passages, it is loving our enemies and our closest ones, they are not in contradiction, they need to be obeyed at the same time. Titus3:2 Instructs us;"To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. " It seems very clear no matter what political persuation one is of. And especialy dropping bombs in a country 1 000s of miles away is a gross violation of what Jesus commanded. And dropping bombs is certianly NOT an act of gentleness and harmlessness that Jesus commands;
Mt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. "

Many more blessings, much more peace
inn

We should love our enemies, but not above our love for our family or the members of our church.

The subject is WORLD PEACE... God's peace is different from world peace...

Jn 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my Peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

PLease follow this.

According to Daniel 9:25, Jesus entered Jerusalem as king (Palm Sunday) 483 years after the commandment to restore Jerusalem. The church is called the New Jerusalem in Rev 21:1-2. The commandment to restore the New Jerusalem came when Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis on 31 Oct 1517. 483 jewish years after day, another king entered Jerusalem and he brought peace to Israel. That king is different from all the other kings and Guiness states his country is the smallest country in the world (that makes him the smallest king). When he made a covenant with Israel on 30 Dec 1993, there was peace for almost 7 years. The peace was reached by convincing Israel to give land back to the Palestinians in exchange for peace which violates the commandment of God. The first city Israel conquered when they entered the promised land was Jericho. The fist city Israel gave back to the Palestinians was Jericho (13 May 1994). That little king is famous for being a man of peace (an angel of light). But that kind of peace, like the world gives, well, God is not impressed with that. On 28 Sept 2000, the Palestinian intifada (suicide bombings of Israel) started and lasted for 3.5 years.

Shalom

inn
Apr 10th 2010, 06:58 PM
Hi Servant
Some questions you missed from my previous post, and one more to add.
5.Tell me Servant, do you truly believe in the light of Rom 13:10 above, that this was really love by bombing Japan?
6."He is mighty but..." Isn't this perhaps an expression of He can't do it without our little bombs? I mean little in comparison to His glorious might!
Added, 7.Mt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. "
Do you believe that we need obey this in this day and age? I'm sure you will agree with being sent forth, but do you believe we need to be harmless as Jesus commands?

I agree with you, God's peace IS different. Once we have recieved His peace, I guess we need to share it, it seems like much of the New Testament is about this, so in a sense, we do bring peace to the world, but not through politics, but by being salt and light, and being blessed by;
Mt 5:9" Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

Servant89
Apr 10th 2010, 08:04 PM
Hi Servant
Some questions you missed from my previous post, and one more to add.
5.Tell me Servant, do you truly believe in the light of Rom 13:10 above, that this was really love by bombing Japan?
6."He is mighty but..." Isn't this perhaps an expression of He can't do it without our little bombs? I mean little in comparison to His glorious might!
Added, 7.Mt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. "
Do you believe that we need obey this in this day and age? I'm sure you will agree with being sent forth, but do you believe we need to be harmless as Jesus commands?

I agree with you, God's peace IS different. Once we have recieved His peace, I guess we need to share it, it seems like much of the New Testament is about this, so in a sense, we do bring peace to the world, but not through politics, but by being salt and light, and being blessed by;
Mt 5:9" Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

Finally, we are in agreement, not by politics. Thank you.

Concerning the mighty power of God... how many times have you experienced the kingdom of God with power? Go to "Testimonies" under "Christ life" in this message board, read the thread "honeymoon prayer" and you will see if I believe God has power or not.

Shalom

inn
Apr 10th 2010, 09:14 PM
Servant.
Yes, I agree ; God's peace IS different.
But what about the other questions?
I trust you can believe that God's power is WAY more poverful than human little bombs.
Grace and peace

Servant89
Apr 10th 2010, 11:38 PM
Servant.
Yes, I agree ; God's peace IS different.
But what about the other questions?
I trust you can believe that God's power is WAY more poverful than human little bombs.
Grace and peace

I do not understand why is so important to you to see how much faith I have, but as I said before, go to "testimonies" and look for the thread named "honeymoon prayer" and see for yourself. Satisfy your curiosity about my faith and relationship with the Lord there.

Shalom

inn
Apr 11th 2010, 01:33 PM
Hi Servant

That's great that you had faith sometime earlier in your life, that's really great.
A conversation/discussion is a two way affair. If I ask you something about A, and you start telling me about R, well then we are missing each other.
My question here are concerning your faith in Jesus if you are in a non peace situation,you have used the words; "We dropped the bomb..." and I believe that makes Jesus sad. My point is , as seen by my questions below, is do you have faith in bombs to bring you "peace", or do you have faith in the Almighty to bring you peace?

I'd appreciate an answer to my questions Servant.
FROM TWO POSTS BACK:
"Some questions you missed from my previous post, and one more to add.
5.Tell me Servant, do you truly believe in the light of Rom 13:10 above, that this was really love by bombing Japan?
6."He is mighty but..." Isn't this perhaps an expression of He can't do it without our little bombs? I mean little in comparison to His glorious might!
Added, 7.Mt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. "
Do you believe that we need obey this in this day and age? I'm sure you will agree with being sent forth, but do you believe we need to be harmless as Jesus commands?

I agree with you, God's peace IS different. Once we have recieved His peace, I guess we need to share it, it seems like much of the New Testament is about this, so in a sense, we do bring peace to the world, but not through politics, but by being salt and light, and being blessed by;
Mt 5:9" Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." "

Servant89
Apr 11th 2010, 05:32 PM
Hi Servant
That's great that you had faith sometime earlier in your life, that's really great.
A conversation/discussion is a two way affair. If I ask you something about A, and you start telling me about R, well then we are missing each other.
My question here are concerning your faith in Jesus if you are in a non peace situation,you have used the words; "We dropped the bomb..." and I believe that makes Jesus sad. My point is , as seen by my questions below, is do you have faith in bombs to bring you "peace", or do you have faith in the Almighty to bring you peace?"

I have faith in Jesus (who is all powerful) who stated that for him to bring 1000 years of peace with the wicked on earth, he will do it by ruling the world with a rod of iron every one of those years. Am I more powerful than him? No.

If Abraham would had answered like this, he would not have been the father of the faith:

God: Abraham, go kill your son, the one that you love (Gen 22:2).
Abraham: But Lord, is that love? How can you use the word love with respect to my son and then ask me to kill him? Is that love? Is that what you asked me to do, to follow your example? Lord, answer me, is that love, to kill my son, is that love?

Nope, Abraham did not go into theological discussion with God on that. Abraham did not care for his resume in the law.


I'd appreciate an answer to my questions Servant.
FROM TWO POSTS BACK: "Some questions you missed from my previous post, and one more to add.
5.Tell me Servant, do you truly believe in the light of Rom 13:10 above, that this was really love by bombing Japan?"

Yes, love for freedom, love for family, love for our way of life.


6."He is mighty but..." Isn't this perhaps an expression of He can't do it without our little bombs? I mean little in comparison to His glorious might!

Only God can read minds (1king 8:29), you are not good at it. Do you actually believe there are Christians here that believe God created the universe but he cannot force peace? I know the word, it is written:

Prov 16:7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.

I believe that. But I will not wait until the rapist finishes raping my children to see if God stops it or not. I am accountable to God for my children and those in my household.


Added, 7.Mt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. "
Do you believe that we need obey this in this day and age? I'm sure you will agree with being sent forth, but do you believe we need to be harmless as Jesus commands?

I believe that, but not in every situation. It is also written: There is a time and a season for everything, there is a time for peace and a time for war. Mat 12:1-6 states you cannot make a doctrine out of one verse while ignoring the exceptions to the rule evident in the rest of the Bible (which is what you are doing), you will end up creating doctrines like the ones the pharisees had in Mat 12.


I agree with you, God's peace IS different. Once we have recieved His peace, I guess we need to share it, it seems like much of the New Testament is about this, so in a sense, we do bring peace to the world, but not through politics, but by being salt and light, and being blessed by; MAT 5:9" Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." "

Yes, blessed are the peacemakers (but not all). You see there are exceptions to that rule too, for it is written about the antichrist, Dan 8:25 "... by peace he shall destroy many:" Blessed is the antichrist? I don't think so.

Shalom

inn
Apr 12th 2010, 10:40 AM
Servant,
Thanks for your post, you answered one part of the question, thanks, it’s a good start. It is interesting that you say you have faith in Jesus to bring the 1000 years of peace. I am very interested in,
A] Do you believe that Jesus can bring you peace in today and tomorrow, and your life on earth, tell me please?

Also you did not answer the second part of the question. Here is the question from the previous post;”My point is , as seen by my questions below, is do you have faith in bombs to bring you "peace", or do you have faith in the Almighty to bring you peace?"
B] Do you have faith in bombs to bring you peace?

Thanks for answering;
5.Tell me Servant, do you truly believe in the light of Rom 13:10 above, that this was really love by bombing Japan?"
Yes, love for freedom, love for family, love for our way of life.
C]I wonder, do you really believe that bombing Japan was doing no ill to their neighbours?
D] Did you actualy read Rom 13:10?

You didn’t answer 6. So I will ask it again,
F]"He is mighty but..." Isn't this perhaps an expression of He can't do it without our little bombs?
Can He or can’t He Srevant?

So far you give me the impression that you don’t believe He can bring peace by Himself here and now, but I am willing to hear you on this.


G] Do you really have the faith to believe that someone is going to rape your children Servant?
H] Well, why do you mension it then?

Hypothetical arguments are not the most healthy.

I’m pleased you answered
7.Mt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. "
Do you believe we need to be harmless as Jesus commands?
“I believe that, but not in every situation.”
Your answer says that you believe it, but when the situation changes , then you don’t believe it, which I feel is not faith at all; we either believe or we don’t.
I] Can you imagine one believing Jesus died for their sins in one situation, and in another situation they don’t believe it?

I like that you quoted Prov 16:7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.
I believe it obedience to the King of Kings pleases the Lord!
Perhaps all us christians should believe this and pull out of the physical wars we are involved in, and be salt and light and peacemakers, and get on with the work God called us to, spreading the gospel of peace.

Servant I wonder about your sincerity here, as in post number 19 in this thread you mensioned that you stand corrected in your use of Dan 8:25, and now you go and do it again,
Quoted from post 19
“Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.


Most translations I've read use the word security, not peace from this quote.[Dan8:25] This quote does not negate God's word where He calls for peace, and it seems as if this person[system] will be destroyed by God's own hand, so perhaps dear servant 89 you have spoken slightly off the topic in your first 6 lines,[or perhaps I don t understand you correctly] but the last 2 are so lovely and to the point; yes may it start with us, as we have peace tween ourselves, and as the world sees we love love one another, they will know we are truly His disciples
That was excellent feedback. Thank you!!! I stand corrected.”

J]That last sentence is yours Servant, tell me what’s going on please?

Abundent peace
inn

dan
Apr 12th 2010, 04:38 PM
Dan, I really like a lot of what you said. I am wondering if you haven't stoped short though and not read the further part of Luke 22, after v36, as Servant points out above, when the disciples come to Him with 2 swords, He says to them;"Thats enough..." If Jesus was instructing them to all have swords, He would have said; "Go get another 10..." I believe He was saying this to test their faith.

...It doesn't seem logical that Jesus would contradict what He just told His Apostles. So, in view of the fact that only the Romans, and those that had sworn allegiance to Rome, were allowed to carry swords, it seems to me He was saying, "It is enough that I have told you to disobey weapons laws".

He never rescinded the command to buy a weapon. Even when He told Peter to put away his sword, He never said to not wear the sword.

inn
Apr 12th 2010, 09:36 PM
Dan, you say ; " ...It doesn't seem logical that Jesus would contradict what He just told His Apostles."

Is this not a contradiction though Dan, Jesus first says don’t take;

Mat 10:9 Acquire no gold nor silver nor copper for your belts,

Mat 10:10 no bag for your journey, nor two tunics nor sandals nor a staff, for the laborer deserves his food.

Luk 10:4 Carry no moneybag, no knapsack, no sandals,

AND

Luk 22:35 And he said to them, "When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing."

Luk 22:36 He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

Luk 22:37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors.' For what is written about me has its fulfillment."

Luk 22:38 And they said, "Look, Lord, here are two swords." And he said to them, "It is enough." ?



Yes, I believe it is a contradiction, what do you think? He is testing their faith as He asks …”did you lack anything” Lk 22:35. Well of course they didn’t, but do you think Jesus is now going change and stop providing for them, they going now be left to provide for themselves?

Jesus said earlier in the same chapter; Luk 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.

Luk 10:20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

Luk 10:21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.

Luk 10:22 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

Luk 10:23 Then turning to the disciples he said privately, "Blessed are the eyes that see what you see!

Jesus having given them this authority; Luk 10:19” Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions,” do you now think they need to be afraid of some little gang or army? That why Jesus said; Luk 22:37 “ 'And he was numbered with the transgressors.' For what is written about me has its fulfillment." He knew Peter was going to strike with the sword, and that He needed to rebuke Peter, and show him how to bring true peace, and you fail to quote the whole verse once again;

Mat 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

What more do we need to see the truth of this statement staring blatantly in our faces? If any of us live by the sword, we shall die by the sword.


Where do you get this from Dan, as it seems as if Jesus was not directly wanting His followers to be disobedient to the laws of the land in that time…” only the Romans, and those that had sworn allegiance to Rome, were allowed to carry swords…” ?
You say;"It is enough that I have told you to disobey weapons laws".
But scripture records that Jesus says ;”It is enough.” So feel free to add words if you like, but if scripture records it as enough, then it is enough for me.
Maybe I am missing your point Dan , so please correct me if I’m on the wrong tangent. The topic here is ; “Does God care about world peace?” I may interpret your last post as saying indirectly; “let’s war.” But at the same time we do disagree on interpretation of the verses above, and I think it’s good to reason on a loving and deep level and I want to understand why you believe what you believe through the scriptures, and perhaps there are some I’m not looking at?

Where do you get this from Dan, as it seems as if Jesus was not directly wanting His followers to be disobedient to the laws of the land in that time…” only the Romans, and those that had sworn allegiance to Rome, were allowed to carry swords…”
I don’t know why you posted the last 3 verses you posted, perhaps you can go into more detail?

Blessings and peace
ps. I notice you have edited your post. I answered it before you edited it.

Servant89
Apr 12th 2010, 09:48 PM
My answers are in blue.

A] Do you believe that Jesus can bring you peace in today and tomorrow, and your life on earth, tell me please? Yes.

Do you have faith in bombs to bring you "peace", or do you have faith in the Almighty to bring you peace?" I have faith in both. I believe that when the righteous are stronger than the wicked it will bring peace. I have faith in God but not like you have faith in God. I do not believe God will bring paradise NOW. That means, if we give away all our weapons, it will not bring paradise now. This is a testing period. Not all our problems will be solved now, no matter what we do.


B] Do you have faith in bombs to bring you peace? Two nuclear bombs brought peace to Japan-USA, that is a fact. I believe that.

Thanks for answering;
5.Tell me Servant, do you truly believe in the light of Rom 13:10 above, that this was really love by bombing Japan?"
Yes, love for freedom, love for family, love for our way of life.

C]I wonder, do you really believe that bombing Japan was doing no ill to their neighbours? When the choice was to have 7 million people die as a result of an invasion, vs 200,000 as a result of two bombs, the choice is clear. We did less ill to our enemies.
D] Did you actualy read Rom 13:10? Nope, I see you repeating it often here (look up).

You didn’t answer 6. So I will ask it again,
F]"He is mighty but..." Isn't this perhaps an expression of He can't do it without our little bombs?
Can He or can’t He Srevant?

The issue is not if he can or cant, the issue is will he or wont he. There is a good probability he wont, as I said, we wont get paradise NOW.
So far you give me the impression that you don’t believe He can bring peace by Himself here and now, but I am willing to hear you on this.

G] Do you really have the faith to believe that someone is going to rape your children Servant?

Read Job, in this world, bad things happen to the servants of the Lord. We need to be prepared as the word says.

H] Well, why do you mension it then? Read Job.

Hypothetical arguments are not the most healthy.

I’m pleased you answered
7.Mt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. "
Do you believe we need to be harmless as Jesus commands?

Yes, as much as we can. There is a time for war. I believe that, but not in every situation.

Your answer says that you believe it, but when the siyuation changes , then you dont believe it, which I feel is not faith at all; we either believe or we dont.
Can you imagine one believing Jesus died for their sins in one situation, and in another situation they dont believe it?

I like that you quoted Prov 16:7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.
I believe it obedience to the King of Kings pleases the Lord!

Did you read Job? There are exceptions. Jesus said while carrying the cross..

Lk 23:31 (http://webnet77.com/cgi-bin/bible/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=23&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=31) For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

Perhaps all us christians should believe this and pull out of the physical wars we are involved in, and be salt and light and peacemakers, and get on with the work God called us to, spreading the gospel of peace.

That is what we are doing in the US today, avoiding rocking the boat, and that is why a minority that does not fear God rules over us, permitting abortion, gay marriage, mocking creation, etc.

Servant I wonder about your sincerity here, as in post number 19 in this thread you mensioned that you stand corrected in your use of Dan 8:25, and now you go and do it again,
Quoted from post 19
“Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Most translations I've read use the word security, not peace from this quote.[Dan8:25] This quote does not negate God's word where He calls for peace, and it seems as if this person[system] will be destroyed by God's own hand, so perhaps dear servant 89 you have spoken slightly off the topic in your first 6 lines,[or perhaps I don t understand you correctly] but the last 2 are so lovely and to the point; yes may it start with us, as we have peace tween ourselves, and as the world sees we love love one another, they will know we are truly His disciples

That was excellent feedback. Thank you!!! I stand corrected.”

J]That last sentence is yours Servant, tell me what's going on please?

I like to admit I am wrong now and then. when it is called for.

Abundant peace
inn

Shalom

inn
Apr 13th 2010, 06:32 PM
Servant



I failed to find your answer to question I] Can you imagine one believing Jesus died for their sins in one situation, and in another situation they don’t believe it?



You say;

“I believe that when the righteous are stronger than the wicked it will bring peace.”

Our righteousness is ALREADY stronger than the wicked, as our righteousness is imputed righteousness, it is put into us by God Himself.

You say;

“I have faith in God but not like you have faith in God. I do not believe God will bring paradise NOW. That means, if we give away all our weapons, it will not bring paradise now.”

I don’t recall Jesus saying we must seek paradise now, but seek first His kingdom. It’s about obedience to His commands Servant. It’s not about trying to solve problems, it’s about obedience…seek first His kingdom, HE WILL DO THE REST!

You say;

“I have faith in both.”(Jesus, and bombs)

My answer will come in the form of an encouragement in that, I’d like to encourage you in the faith of our Lord Jesus.

God wants us to imitate Jesus as MUCH as we possibly can. His purpose was to teach the right way to behave and to provide salvation. We to need to show the right way to live and lead others to salvation. By dropping bombs on people, we CANNOT lead them to salvation.



Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Some of the folk who had bombs dropped on them were Christians in Japan. Do you believe this was edifying them by dropping bombs on them?

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

This is what God wants, unity in the faith and of the knowledge of the Son, and as we know His words and obey them, then our house is SECURE and on the rock,(I am speaking spiritually.) This is the stature of the fullness of Christ:

Do you want this in your life?



Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

It’s only as we do what Jesus says that we can not be tossed about by wrong doctrines.



Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

As I pointed out above, this love is not dropping bombs. I don’t know who you spend time with, but I have not yet met anyone who would say please love me by dropping a atomic bomb on me, do you?

Us as His body are fitted together and some want to go be fitted together with people who are disobedient in that they refuse to hear; Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

How do the gentiles walk? After the flesh; Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
We need to walk inthe ways of the Spirit Servant. What are the fruit of the Spirit, do you see anything about bombs,and injuring people, or do you see the opposite?




Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

People that are doing wrong are doing so because of the blindness of their heart, and some want to go and solve the problem with a bomb. The New Testament tells us that this blindness can only be solved by the light of the Gospel. There is NO New Testament verse that says the opposite to Eph 6:12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rivers of peace

Servant89
Apr 13th 2010, 10:23 PM
Do you think we need to disarm the police and the Army?

Shalom

inn
Apr 14th 2010, 05:42 PM
[QUOTE=Servant89;2387464]Do you think we need to disarm the police and the Army?

Shalom[/QUOTE

No, that's NOT my calling and I never mensioned that idea once.
It'll be great if you answer questions above from post 69.

Rivers...

Servant89
Apr 14th 2010, 09:24 PM
[QUOTE=Servant89;2387464]Do you think we need to disarm the police and the Army?

Shalom[/QUOTE

No, that's NOT my calling and I never mensioned that idea once.
It'll be great if you answer questions above from post 69.

Rivers...

Let me ask it like this: Do you believe that unarmed policemen and no army, would be a good thing for our country, if we could convince our people to go for it?

Shalom

inn
Apr 15th 2010, 03:22 PM
Servant,
Is this avoidance tactics? I asked some questions of you , not some policeman! If I was speaking to a policeman, I would ask him other questions, let's get on with what we're discussing amoung us; that is you and I. As I said in post 71, I am not called to disarm any army or force of any kind. This is a christian site, I am addressing christians, and I prefer not to debate on a hypothetical level. Now back to us, Servant, please answer, so we can go forward. That would be great.

More rivers.....

Servant89
Apr 15th 2010, 09:25 PM
Servant,
Is this avoidance tactics? I asked some questions of you , not some policeman! If I was speaking to a policeman, I would ask him other questions, let's get on with what we're discussing amoung us; that is you and I. As I said in post 71, I am not called to disarm any army or force of any kind. This is a christian site, I am addressing christians, and I prefer not to debate on a hypothetical level. Now back to us, Servant, please answer, so we can go forward. That would be great.

More rivers.....

Count the numer of questions I have answered and count the ones you have. Talking about avoidance... Do you believe that unarmed policemen and no army, would be a good thing for our country, if we could convince our people to go for it?

Shalom

inn
Apr 16th 2010, 09:40 AM
Servant,
Out of politeness, I first asked you questions, and if you are interested in discussion, then please go ahead and answer from post 69. To answer your question; All I've said in here is clear; I am calling those who profess to following Jesus to obey Him in the entirity of His teachings. Loving your enemies is one of the commands. I am not a politican, and what the world does with it's army is their own affair. My concern is christians going to war against each other, and doing ill to their neighbours. I am not here to make any political statements about police forces. As you can see by the O.P. this topic is about Jesus and world peace, so I'd appreciate if you do not derail the thread. I am having a one on one discussion with you in here at the moment,(most other folk seem have positive things to say regarding this topic). If you are interested in this discussion, then please answer. That will be appreciated.
More abundent rivers...

inn
Apr 16th 2010, 10:02 AM
I think God wants to bring peace, but not in the way that the world defines.

God is a god of peace (1 Cor 14:33). Through Christ Jesus, we find peace with God. God desires that his people live in peace. That is peace within themselves and peace with others. Paul writes in Romans 8:6 that to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Peace is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Chad, keep it up, your post is music to my ears...
Rivers of music...

Servant89
Apr 16th 2010, 09:58 PM
inn (I am answering your questions from post # 19): My answers are in blue again.

Some of the folk who had bombs dropped on them were Christians in Japan. Do you believe this was edifying them by dropping bombs on them?

Edifying ? No.

Prov 17:10 A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

This is what God wants, unity in the faith and of the knowledge of the Son, and as we know His words and obey them, then our house is SECURE and on the rock,(I am speaking spiritually.) This is the stature of the fullness of Christ:

Do you want this in your life?

Yes.


As I pointed out above, this love is not dropping bombs. I don’t know who you spend time with, but I have not yet met anyone who would say please love me by dropping an atomic bomb on me, do you?

Nope. Never.

How do the gentiles walk? After the flesh; Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
We need to walk inthe ways of the Spirit Servant. What are the fruit of the Spirit, do you see anything about bombs,and injuring people, or do you see the opposite?

No I dont.

But I am against having an unarmed army or police. And if someone breaks into my house to rape my kids I will minister to them with my firearms if I have the chance to do it. After all,

1 Tim 1:9 (http://webnet77.com/cgi-bin/bible/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=54&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Shalom

inn
Apr 17th 2010, 01:03 PM
I don't have a fancy p.c. so my new comments begin with a dash, a slow one -

-Servant, thanks, now we are going forward, you still missed one question from post 65.
I failed to find your answer to question I] Can you imagine one believing Jesus died for their sins in one situation, and in another situation they don’t believe it?



You say;

“I believe that when the righteous are stronger than the wicked it will bring peace.”

Our righteousness is ALREADY stronger than the wicked, as our righteousness is imputed righteousness, it is put into us by God Himself.

-Z] Do you acknowledge this Servant, or do you believe the wicked are stronger than the righteous. It’s good to notice the context of the question in the sentence above.

You say;

“I have faith in God but not like you have faith in God. I do not believe God will bring paradise NOW. That means, if we give away all our weapons, it will not bring paradise now.”

I don’t recall Jesus saying we must seek paradise now, but seek first His kingdom. It’s about obedience to His commands Servant. It’s not about trying to solve problems, it’s about obedience…seek first His kingdom, HE WILL DO THE REST!

-Y] Servant, do you acknowledge that as christians we need to seek first His kingdom?

You say;

“I have faith in both.”(Jesus, and bombs)

My answer will come in the form of an encouragement in that, I’d like to encourage you in the faith of our Lord Jesus.

God wants us to imitate Jesus as MUCH as we possibly can. His purpose was to teach the right way to behave and to provide salvation. We to need to show the right way to live and lead others to salvation. By dropping bombs on people, we CANNOT lead them to salvation.

-X] Do you acknowledge this Servant; “By dropping bombs on people, we CANNOT lead them to salvation.”?



Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Some of the folk who had bombs dropped on them were Christians in Japan. Do you believe this was edifying them by dropping bombs on them?

-W]Do you believe it was possible for there to be even one christian in that Japanise city that was bombed?

-W In a sense a retorical question.

-V] Do you believe that this was truly an act of sdifying your brother or sister by dropping a bomb on them? If you say yes, then I guess you will be asking someone to come and kill you in order to edify you, which is unreasonable, but I guess the military systems of this world often ask people to do unreasonable things.

-You quoting a proverb about a hundred lashes is out of place, as we are talking about bombing christians, [U] or are you calling you christian brother or sister a fool because they happen to be born Japanese?


Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

This is what God wants, unity in the faith and of the knowledge of the Son, and as we know His words and obey them, then our house is SECURE and on the rock,(I am speaking spiritually.) This is the stature of the fullness of Christ:

Do you want this in your life?

-Great that you answered yes. I guess a simple way to begin is by hearing the words of Jesus and obeying them by His grace.



Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

It’s only as we do what Jesus says that we can not be tossed about by wrong doctrines.

-T] Servant, do you want this fullness for the whole church?



Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

As I pointed out above, this love is not dropping bombs. I don’t know who you spend time with, but I have not yet met anyone who would say please love me by dropping a atomic bomb on me, do you?

-S]So is it possible Servant, that you have said you don ‘t know of people asking for love in the form of a bomb dropped on them, that dropping a bomb on them is perhaps not love at all?



Us as His body are fitted together and some want to go be fitted together with people who are disobedient in that they refuse to hear; Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

How do the gentiles walk? After the flesh; Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
We need to walk inthe ways of the Spirit Servant. What are the fruit of the Spirit, do you see anything about bombs,and injuring people, or do you see the opposite?

-R] If you don’t see dropping bombs as a friut of the spirit, then why do you believe christians get involved in this nonesense?

-Q] If God calls us to one thing, and the State calls us to another, is it not RIGHT to say; “Sorry State, but God does not want me to bear the fruit of the flesh and unrighteousness.”
-Servant, I have NEVER said once we must disarm any force, I am speaking as a servant of God who takes the teachings of Jesus seriously. We know that no earthly government will disarm, WE KNOW THAT, so why even bother with this hypothetical question. What I am saying, I am saying to the christian, to the follower of Christ!

- P] Do you get me on this Servant, as you keep going there? Speak to me as a brother/sister, not as a politican.
- O] Do you acknowledge this thread is about world peace, not rape Servant? Please keep to the topic
- N] Can you see that by posting 1 Tim 1:9 you are using an incorrect context?( as the context is a law/grace thing, the word law is used in that sense.)


There is NO New Testament verse that says the opposite to Eph 6:12
-“ For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

Blessings, rivers of peace, joy, life, peace….

Gillian
Apr 17th 2010, 03:13 PM
I agree. We are called to shining lights manifesting Christ daily, so it may reach unsaved. the main prupose of God plan and the Gospel to spread forth, witiness the inner peace. not politics or what for what against, since in Spirit fullness more peace embraced, unforactly it alway case of few. that what asked of us.
peace doesnt mean pacfiest attuide, ever Christ day certianlly not pacfist with anti-christ.

Struggle in peace for your own sake and struggle in daily to be a constantly witiness of Christ, for sake, to be shining light to others that are in darkness. that our prupose of peace. by Spirit fullness aumtomcially the world would be better, improved place in rightousness path and understandings if large numbers do sucesslly in all locations. but never will be that with satan tempts. But better keep striking then not. Holy Spirit in fullness of by large numbers, it would be in that One Spirit peace and undderstandings in agreement then would it embrance. and that only exist in heaven!

peace in basic

love enemy
love friends
kindness
to care
humilty
quick to forgive
no grudge
slow to anger
anger in rightous cause with self control
quick to mercy
decree justice fairly
fairly in law serve according to own good and bad deeds
recongise each individuals own efforts rewards according to his/her own
called to serve people
firstmost be like God, (okay be like Christ if God word too much)
servant to God above all
adore God, the manifestly of love and it humitly.
love others as you are of yourself
all are family brothers sisters one big family!
God the Father to be heed by us
love others more then yourselves (place people in Spirit needs then ur own in greater effort)
through Spirit or eyes of Jesus in like manner cosntantly
we are called to serve each other.
like Christ who came to be servant to us and a serveant to Father.
Praise God with happy hearts
striking to run the race to God.
Stay awake!
be alert.
alway on fire.
struggle without let up
listen to God in Word constantly.
Think about what God say.
be cosntantly in prayer without ceasing to God.
give glory to God.
make sure election own choices, our ways to be like God way are discipled cosntantly by own wills.

cant think any more now

Gillian

dan
Apr 18th 2010, 03:41 PM
Dan, you say ; " ...It doesn't seem logical that Jesus would contradict what He just told His Apostles."

Is this not a contradiction though Dan, Jesus first says don’t take;

Jesus having given them this authority; Luk 10:19” Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions,” do you now think they need to be afraid of some little gang or army? That why Jesus said; Luk 22:37 “ 'And he was numbered with the transgressors.' For what is written about me has its fulfillment." He knew Peter was going to strike with the sword, and that He needed to rebuke Peter, and show him how to bring true peace, and you fail to quote the whole verse once again;

Mat 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

What more do we need to see the truth of this statement staring blatantly in our faces? If any of us live by the sword, we shall die by the sword.

If this were a true statement in the context that is generally offered, I would have no disagreement.

However, those that live by the sword don't, as a rule, die by the sword, and, as Jesus is not one to be speaking falsehoods, it is not logical that he meant it for everyone and all times.

But, I do think that during that particular moment in history, when Jesus' time had come to give his life for the world, that those that resisted with the sword would have died by the sword


Where do you get this from Dan, as it seems as if Jesus was not directly wanting His followers to be disobedient to the laws of the land in that time…” only the Romans, and those that had sworn allegiance to Rome, were allowed to carry swords…” ?

I get that from the reading of history.

On at least two occasions, the Romans had to quell rebellion in cities that were part of the Empire.

It is reported that Cassius, after subduing the rebels, returned their armor and weapons when they renewed their oath of allegiance to Rome.


You say;"It is enough that I have told you to disobey weapons laws".
But scripture records that Jesus says ;”It is enough.” So feel free to add words if you like, but if scripture records it as enough, then it is enough for me.

I hear you. But, if Jesus was referring to the circumstances I described above, He was saying those words.


Maybe I am missing your point Dan , so please correct me if I’m on the wrong tangent. The topic here is ; “Does God care about world peace?” I may interpret your last post as saying indirectly; “let’s war.” But at the same time we do disagree on interpretation of the verses above, and I think it’s good to reason on a loving and deep level and I want to understand why you believe what you believe through the scriptures, and perhaps there are some I’m not looking at?

Perhaps it is not apparent to you that world peace is dependent on, not the willingness to be peaceful, but, the ability, willingness, and level of preparedness in the waging of war.

That is to say, we don't have to wage a war, if we look like we will. But, if we are perceived by the world to be weak, someone will test us.

The Soviets looked for many years to find a chink in our armor and now they think they have found it. They think that through the use of surrogates, attacks on us will not bring retaliation on their countries.


I don’t know why you posted the last 3 verses you posted, perhaps you can go into more detail?

Blessings and peace
ps. I notice you have edited your post. I answered it before you edited it.

The last three verses on that post are my signature to every post.

There is a verse in Isaiah that says something like: "I will number you to the sword because you forgot the name of my holy mountain".

Agar is that name.

The next verse assigns the "goodman" the obligation to confront the bad. A forgotten tenet, in my opinion.

The third, tells of the man that will not prepare, or look as though he is prepared. Evil sees this, and visits violence upon him.

inn
Apr 20th 2010, 05:11 PM
Dan
, you didn't really go through those scriptures did you, let me post them again and you can go through them one by one and then tell me that the two do not contradict,

Firstly Jesus says in Luke 10
Mat 10:9 Acquire no gold nor silver nor copper for your belts,

Mat 10:10 no bag for your journey, nor two tunics nor sandals nor a staff, for the laborer deserves his food.

Luk 10:4 Carry no moneybag, no knapsack, no sandals,

AND
Secondly;
Luk 22:35 And he said to them, "When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing."

Luk 22:36 He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.


Is this a contradiction,or not? (between Luke 10 and Luke 22)

I will wait for your answer before I go any further, as Getting past one point at a time is important, and it's important for us to see the wood from the trees.

Blessings

inn
Apr 20th 2010, 05:45 PM
Dear Gillian,
As I read the words of Jesus, I do not see Him using the word pascifist etc. I find Him using words like love, so in one way I do agree with you. May we all continue to love deeply.

Gillian
Apr 20th 2010, 06:11 PM
Dear Gillian,
As I read the words of Jesus, I do not see Him using the word pascifist etc. I find Him using words like love, so in one way I do agree with you. May we all continue to love deeply.


of curse Jesus isnt pascifet (misspell) those who agaisnt any forms of volience

inn
Apr 20th 2010, 06:23 PM
Gillian,
You missed my point about love. No where in the gospels do we find Jesus beating anyone up. Bear in mind the tread is,'Does God care about world peace?'

Gillian
Apr 20th 2010, 09:38 PM
of course not, but yet He does harsh judgment such a Day of the Lord along God`s wrath on sinners.

`peace doesnt mean pacfiest attuide, ever Christ day certianlly not pacfist with anti-christ ` as my eariler post said, peace love people not nessuarcy mean to be Christlike is total anti war pacfiest word mean. The Lord Day doenst mean He ne gentle sit down chat to poor misunderstood anti christ.

I never said he a beater or a pafiest.

it seem we both missed each other points in any case we agreed.

inn
Apr 21st 2010, 04:06 PM
of course not, but yet He does harsh judgment such a Day of the Lord along God`s wrath on sinners.

`peace doesnt mean pacfiest attuide, ever Christ day certianlly not pacfist with anti-christ ` as my eariler post said, peace love people not nessuarcy mean to be Christlike is total anti war pacfiest word mean. The Lord Day doenst mean He ne gentle sit down chat to poor misunderstood anti christ.

I never said he a beater or a pafiest.

it seem we both missed each other points in any case we agreed.

Great. I just feel a few people in here speak about the end, where in the bit I have posted, it's about our behaviour now, so may we continue to be loving peacemakers, that s where it seems there is a problem amoung christians today, and God CERTIANLY will have no problem carring out His continued great plan.
Many blessings to you in Christ, and please keep up pleasant posting, it s always uplifting to discuss with someone who is open to try and understand.

dan
Apr 22nd 2010, 05:20 AM
Dan
, you didn't really go through those scriptures did you, let me post them again and you can go through them one by one and then tell me that the two do not contradict,

Firstly Jesus says in Luke 10
Mat 10:9 Acquire no gold nor silver nor copper for your belts,

Mat 10:10 no bag for your journey, nor two tunics nor sandals nor a staff, for the laborer deserves his food.

Luk 10:4 Carry no moneybag, no knapsack, no sandals,

AND
Secondly;
Luk 22:35 And he said to them, "When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing."

Luk 22:36 He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

Is this a contradiction,or not? (between Luke 10 and Luke 22)

I will wait for your answer before I go any further, as Getting past one point at a time is important, and it's important for us to see the wood from the trees.

Blessings

...I did, but my disagreement is about "dying by the sword", not "buying one".

inn
Apr 22nd 2010, 07:18 PM
Dear Dan,

Your answer to the queestion about weather it was a contradiction was; "If this were a true statement in the context that is generally offered, I would have no disagreement. "
That is not a definate yes or a no. I need a yes or a no, or an expamded explanation of why you would choose neither yes or no, then we can go further, one step ata time.
Thanks

dan
Apr 23rd 2010, 09:17 AM
Dear Dan,

Your answer to the queestion about weather it was a contradiction was; "If this were a true statement in the context that is generally offered, I would have no disagreement. "
That is not a definate yes or a no. I need a yes or a no, or an expamded explanation of why you would choose neither yes or no, then we can go further, one step ata time.
Thanks

Yes, the statements that you referred to are contradictions. However, the statement I referred to was what I disagreed with. That is, "dying by the sword".

inn
Apr 23rd 2010, 07:06 PM
[QUOTE=dan;2386304]...It doesn't seem logical that Jesus would contradict what He just told His Apostles.

So, here we go then Dan; this is where your argument begins, your first point I can remember from Lk10, and Lk 22. In post 66 , you can it doesn't seem logical, and now you admit, there is in fact a contradiction.

I will answer the rest in a moment, I trust you will deal honestly with this comment above, which one will you stick to, post 66, or your latest one?

inn
Apr 23rd 2010, 07:19 PM
Dan; secondly, to this question I posed, " Where do you get this from Dan, as it seems as if Jesus was not directly wanting His followers to be disobedient to the laws of the land in that time…” only the Romans, and those that had sworn allegiance to Rome, were allowed to carry swords…” ? All I can remember you replying ti this was you got it from history, well this is not good enough I feel. Are we not called to live by the word that proceeds from the mouth of God, and not history?

Are you saying that Jesus was wanting his disciples to carry 12 swords?
Is it good for anyone to add words onto a potrion of Lk 22 for their sake of interpretation?

Blessings.
Disagree, that's fine, but by you answering these questions, we can pin point exactly where we disagree.

inn
Apr 24th 2010, 05:59 AM
Hey Servant, what' happened to you, I posed some questions a while back, you were so faithful in communication, I hope you are ok!

dan
Apr 25th 2010, 02:14 PM
Dan; secondly, to this question I posed, " Where do you get this from Dan, as it seems as if Jesus was not directly wanting His followers to be disobedient to the laws of the land in that time…” only the Romans, and those that had sworn allegiance to Rome, were allowed to carry swords…” ? All I can remember you replying ti this was you got it from history, well this is not good enough I feel. Are we not called to live by the word that proceeds from the mouth of God, and not history?

Are you saying that Jesus was wanting his disciples to carry 12 swords?
Is it good for anyone to add words onto a potrion of Lk 22 for their sake of interpretation?

Blessings.
Disagree, that's fine, but by you answering these questions, we can pin point exactly where we disagree.

It's really easy to read it again if you wish.:lol:

As far as carrying twelve swords, I believe that, yes, each one was to have his own, but, perhaps, it was "enough" to make Him a "transgressor" of Roman Law if He told others to break this law.

Read His words again:

LK 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
LK 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

If you ignore my words and just use the Bible's, it still tells you to buy a weapon.:lol:

inn
Apr 27th 2010, 11:52 AM
Dan, you seem to have chosen to avoid the question I posed in post 90.
Firstly needs to be dealt with first.

This is where your argument begins, your first point I can remember from comment on Lk 22:35,36( In post 66 ), you say;"It doesn't seem logical that Jesus would contradict what He just told His Apostles."

And now in post 89 you admit, there is in fact a contradiction.

Now how can I have a discussion with you when in fact you have said 2 contradicting statements?

That s why I need to ask you, which post is the correct one, 66 or 89?

And as I have pointed out earlier, you do not quote the full passage, and this has danger in misleading folk, yet you still persist in this. In verse 38 after your quote Lk22:35,36 Jesus says 2 swords are enough Dan, So it seems you are the one ignoring the words of Jesus.

Which post do I take as truth from you Dan, post 66 or 89?

And about these pictures you posted, I feel laughing about what God has commanded is a sad affair, and perhaps you need to consider editing them out; out of humble respect.

Blessings and peace.

dan
Apr 28th 2010, 07:15 AM
Dan, you seem to have chosen to avoid the question I posed in post 90.
Firstly needs to be dealt with first.

This is where your argument begins, your first point I can remember from comment on Lk 22:35,36( In post 66 ), you say;"It doesn't seem logical that Jesus would contradict what He just told His Apostles."

And now in post 89 you admit, there is in fact a contradiction.

That s why I need to ask you, which post is the correct one, 66 or 89?

And as I have pointed out earlier, you do not quote the full passage, and this has danger in misleading folk, yet you still persist in this. In verse 38 after your quote Lk22:35,36 Jesus says 2 swords are enough Dan, So it seems you are the one ignoring the words of Jesus.

Which post do I take as truth from you Dan, post 66 or 89?

Blessings and peace.

Did Jesus ever rescind His command to buy or carry a weapon? No. You have said that you think Jesus said two swords are enough for twelve men after He said for all to buy that can afford one.

You have my permission to believe that if you wish. But, perhaps you should think about it.:lol:

The incongruity of it is too much for me. Perhaps you can break it down and make it simpler for me.

Firstfruits
Apr 28th 2010, 10:47 AM
After all, Jesus said Mt 5:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
But what kind of peace is this? Is this revelent to our world today? Or should we not care about how peaceful it is for ourselves and others? I believe it is very important, and the only way we can be a peacemaker is by obeying what Jesus taught in the gospels, not as in the old covenant, as God changed the laws [not all, but some] in the New Covenant. God's peace begins in the gospel! What do you think?

We are tought to live in peace with all, as much as is possible.

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

2 Cor 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

God bless!

Firstfruits

inn
Apr 28th 2010, 11:14 AM
Dan.
I love what Firstfruits said above, and I wonder if you have ever taken the time to meditate on this?
You once again avoid the question I posed in post 94(or 90 if you like, you have been avoiding from way back then). Sucessful communication normaly happens when there is talking and listening. If I ask you something and you do not answer, it is a sign that in fact you may not be listening at all. Please answer Dan, from post 94.

In your last post, it seems that you have missed the point COMPLETELY. No where have I said that one should or should not own or buy a sword. Are you perhaps reading another thread, and getting confused? This thread is about world peace, in which personal peace has a huge role as we can see by what Firstfruits posted above. Perhaps it will be a good idea to stick to the thread.

And if you feel that Jesus said 2 are enough means buy 10 more, that is completely up to you, but seems as it has little to do with God caring about world peace, now back to post 94.

Peace

Creator
Apr 28th 2010, 08:46 PM
But what kind of peace is this? ?

"Well; He did say, my peace I give unto you...NOT as the world gives give I unto you" .:kiss:

Creator

inn
Apr 29th 2010, 10:04 AM
"Well; He did say, my peace I give unto you...NOT as the world gives give I unto you" .:kiss:

Creator

I can t answer for Well, but it seems to me this isn t the issue in this thread. Does God care about world peace? He has given it to us, so maybe we should be spreading it around a bit more, so yes, I agree with you, He has given us His peace.

chad
Apr 29th 2010, 10:42 AM
Well... ok, but this is just my opinion. Jesus is the prince of peace Isaiah 9:6. He gives us peace with God, through forgiveness of sin. It is by faith that we are justified (Rom 5:1) and it is by faith we are saved from Gods Wrath (Rom 5:9). We were once enemies to God, but now we are reconciled to God, through his son Christ Jesus (Rom 5:10).

So when you say Does God care about world peace. Of course God does. But what is your definition on how God brings peace to the earth. Is it an earthly understanding and definition of what peace is. Or is it based on the word of God (That peace which comes through his son, Jesus , the prince of peace and our savior?)

It is through our lord Jesus that God brings peace to this earth. The sin debt is paid, we are no under wrath and no longer enemies of God.



Chad, keep it up, your post is music to my ears...
Rivers of music...

inn
Apr 29th 2010, 11:08 AM
Well... ok, but this is just my opinion. Jesus is the prince of peace Isaiah 9:6. He gives us peace with God, through forgiveness of sin. It is by faith that we are justified (Rom 5:1) and it is by faith we are saved from Gods Wrath (Rom 5:9). We were once enemies to God, but now we are reconciled to God, through his son Christ Jesus (Rom 5:10).

So when you say Does God care about world peace. Of course God does. But what is your definition on how God brings peace to the earth. Is it an earthly understanding and definition of what peace is. Or is it based on the word of God (That peace which comes through his son, Jesus , the prince of peace and our savior?)

It is through our lord Jesus that God brings peace to this earth. The sin debt is paid, we are no under wrath and no longer enemies of God.

It is my opinion that once we have this peace you describe in your first paragraph, that we spread the gospel of peace, Rom 10:15 "How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace,

Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; "

So my understanding is that once we recieve His peace, it affects the way I live, and then I do not support un-peace, in other words, fist fights, violence, brutlity, war in any way. I thus become a peacemaker, as Jesus blesses; Mt 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. "

In a sense this is ONE of the ways God brings world peace, and if christians did more, there would be more peace, and of course He can do s much more too, but this doesn t alieviate me from my responsibility to be a peacemaker.

Another point, " Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. "Mt 6:10

I hope this gives a bit of feed back, and if not, ask more directly, so I can know exactly what you want to find out, but these are only my opinions, there are many who know much more.

dan
Apr 29th 2010, 05:44 PM
We are tought to live in peace with all, as much as is possible.

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

2 Cor 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

God bless!

Firstfruits

If peace were a function of being willing to be peaceful the world would be in peace.

But peace is a result of evil learning where it can take advantage and where it is in peril of not being able to continue to exist.:lol:

inn
Apr 30th 2010, 05:41 PM
Dan,
again I see you are avoiding the discussion, as I posted to you in post 97 about questions you are avoiding as far back as post 94.
I post them again, just in case you don t like turning pages;
"
I love what Firstfruits said above, and I wonder if you have ever taken the time to meditate on this?
You once again avoid the question I posed in post 94(or 90 if you like, you have been avoiding from way back then). Sucessful communication normaly happens when there is talking and listening. If I ask you something and you do not answer, it is a sign that in fact you may not be listening at all. Please answer Dan, from post 94.

In your last post, it seems that you have missed the point COMPLETELY. No where have I said that one should or should not own or buy a sword. Are you perhaps reading another thread, and getting confused? This thread is about world peace, in which personal peace has a huge role as we can see by what Firstfruits posted above. Perhaps it will be a good idea to stick to the thread.

And if you feel that Jesus said 2 are enough means buy 10 more, that is completely up to you, but seems as it has little to do with God caring about world peace, now back to post 94.

Peace

Servant89
May 1st 2010, 03:58 PM
How many here think Jesus was impressed on Palm Sunday, when there was peace in Jerusalem, and everyone was saying: “Hosanna to the King, blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord.” Is that what God wants? God looks at the inside, not the outside. Jesus declared judgment on Jerusalem that day and there was no prayer of “Father forgive them” on that day. We get impressed by outward appearance. Not God. The peace that God gives is not like world peace. We can have peace in the midst of tribulation. That while the world is at war, we are at peace, that is the one that counts, the one that is beyond human understanding.

Phil 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Jn 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my Peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Jn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Shalom

dan
May 2nd 2010, 05:32 PM
Dan,
again I see you are avoiding the discussion, as I posted to you in post 97 about questions you are avoiding as far back as post 94.
I post them again, just in case you don t like turning pages;

I love what Firstfruits said above, and I wonder if you have ever taken the time to meditate on this?

Of course, but the fact is that, "As much as possible", is in there, and that leaves open the chance that peace can become impossible, doesn't it?

Of course, nothing is impossible with God. But, often, God says "No", or, "Not yet".

JER 8:11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.


You once again avoid the question I posed in post 94(or 90 if you like, you have been avoiding from way back then). Sucessful communication normaly happens when there is talking and listening. If I ask you something and you do not answer, it is a sign that in fact you may not be listening at all. Please answer Dan, from post 94.

Yes, I don't like to argue some points, as I perceive them to be a person's "strong meat". But since you persist, I will tell you.

I still think the statements that you think were contradictory were not. They were, rather, a progression of steps Jesus was using to make His Followers strong and righteous.

MT 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


In your last post, it seems that you have missed the point COMPLETELY. No where have I said that one should or should not own or buy a sword. Are you perhaps reading another thread, and getting confused? This thread is about world peace, in which personal peace has a huge role as we can see by what Firstfruits posted above. Perhaps it will be a good idea to stick to the thread.

As I hinted above, perhaps it is too much for you to bear to think that weapons have anything to do with peace.

That's a pity, for the world provides ample evidence of it.

As a matter of fact, here is a researchers recount of some of the things that have gone on in that regard:

http://www.davidkopel.com/2A/Foreign/gun-bans-and-genocide.htm


And if you feel that Jesus said 2 are enough means buy 10 more, that is completely up to you, but seems as it has little to do with God caring about world peace, now back to post 94.

Peace

No, as I stated before, He advised that each individual was to buy his own, and when He said it is enough, it was in reference to the fact that He'd told them to disobey Roman Law, and, in so doing, had made Himself a transgressor of that Law.

In order that He would be counted, in that way, among the transgressors.

Servant89
May 2nd 2010, 08:16 PM
I can t answer for Well, but it seems to me this isn t the issue in this thread. Does God care about world peace? He has given it to us, so maybe we should be spreading it around a bit more, so yes, I agree with you, He has given us His peace.


I agree with inn here, we should be spreading it around a bit more.

Shalom

inn
May 2nd 2010, 09:05 PM
Of course, but the fact is that, "As much as possible", is in there, and that leaves open the chance that peace can become impossible, doesn't it?

Of course, nothing is impossible with God. But, often, God says "No", or, "Not yet".
.


Are you then saying that it is not possible for you then dan?
I would say, because God ahs given us peace, why do you now want to go and sew destruction by joining forces with a fleshly army and possibly killing innocents?
Not only will it aid in you loosing this great peace from God, but in you being disobedient to His commands;love your enemies.

Jesus said in teching us to pray; your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Many don t see His peace, they see desrtuction, so they join the military.

I feel quoting from the Old covenant bursts the wine skins, so I choose to focus on the superior covenant, as it is from this covenant that true peace is bestowed.

inn
May 2nd 2010, 09:09 PM
[QUOTE=dan;2400424]
"Yes, I don't like to argue some points, as I perceive them to be a person's "strong meat". But since you persist, I will tell you.

I still think the statements that you think were contradictory were not. They were, rather, a progression of steps Jesus was using to make His Followers strong and righteous."

Come on dan, you admitted that it was a contradiction, are you now going back on your own words?
It seems you are making a point, that what jesus said in Lk 10 was inferior to what He said in Lk 22.
Please clarify.

inn
May 2nd 2010, 09:18 PM
No, as I stated before, He advised that each individual was to buy his own, and when He said it is enough, it was in reference to the fact that He'd told them to disobey Roman Law, and, in so doing, had made Himself a transgressor of that Law.

In order that He would be counted, in that way, among the transgressors.

Dan, we know that you quoted those verses out of context in this sense, that you left out Jesus`expression," That is enough." Now of course this raises suspicion in this, you did not want the reader to notice that when He said buy 12 swords, and they brought Him 2, He said; that s enough.

Are you not adding to scripture by saying .."it was in reference to the fact that He'd told them to disobey Roman Law." ?
I mean enough is enough, that s what Jesus said, but why do you feel you need to add to His words? Do you not think He was wise enough and he thus needed you to add to His words?Not only that but i feel you probably will be a big Rom 13 fan where we are commanded to obey governing authorities, and now you call for a contradiction to this. Please provide a worthy explanation dan.

inn
May 2nd 2010, 09:22 PM
I agree with inn here, we should be spreading it around a bit more.

Shalom


Servant , I asked you questions way back, come on, let s not sweep it under the carpet, please.

If you truly agree that we should be spreading it around a bit more, well then have you changed your position and joined with the ranks of peace?

How can one go to war with a weapon of physical destruction in one hand, and the gospel of peace in the other hand?

Servant89
May 2nd 2010, 10:39 PM
Servant , I asked you questions way back, come on, let s not sweep it under the carpet, please.

If you truly agree that we should be spreading it around a bit more, well then have you changed your position and joined with the ranks of peace?

How can one go to war with a weapon of physical destruction in one hand, and the gospel of peace in the other hand?

I am sweeping it under the carpet. Call me a coward. It's ok.

Our peace is internal and we can have it in the midst of war. The Bible is crystal clear about that. The Lord’s kingdom is not of this world. Not everyone that hears the gospel will convert. The Bible says that the law was written for the unrighteous, not for the righteous.

1 Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Rom 13:1-6 states that God has given policemen and the armed forces weapons and license to use them because of the wicked. The wicked will not listen to the gospel and without the fear of the law and the sentence, they will not behave as they should in society. That’s why.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

Shalom

dan
May 3rd 2010, 12:05 AM
Dan, we know that you quoted those verses out of context in this sense, that you left out Jesus`expression," That is enough." Now of course this raises suspicion in this, you did not want the reader to notice that when He said buy 12 swords, and they brought Him 2, He said; that s enough.

Are you not adding to scripture by saying .."it was in reference to the fact that He'd told them to disobey Roman Law." ?
I mean enough is enough, that s what Jesus said, but why do you feel you need to add to His words? Do you not think He was wise enough and he thus needed you to add to His words?Not only that but i feel you probably will be a big Rom 13 fan where we are commanded to obey governing authorities, and now you call for a contradiction to this. Please provide a worthy explanation dan.

...I was thinking the same of you.:lol:

You ignored the fact that Jesus also said:

LK 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

So, what did He say that could possibly make Him a transgressor of anyone's law?:hmm:

I'll understand if you can't come up with something.:lol:

dan
May 3rd 2010, 01:10 AM
Are you then saying that it is not possible for you then dan?
I would say, because God ahs given us peace, why do you now want to go and sew destruction by joining forces with a fleshly army and possibly killing innocents?
Not only will it aid in you loosing this great peace from God, but in you being disobedient to His commands;love your enemies.

Jesus said in teching us to pray; your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Many don t see His peace, they see desrtuction, so they join the military.

I feel quoting from the Old covenant bursts the wine skins, so I choose to focus on the superior covenant, as it is from this covenant that true peace is bestowed.

Not possible? Jesus has taught me that weapons create peace. Historically speaking, He has been right.

When Washington D.C. lost it's handgun ban a year ago did murders go up? No, down. About 21 percent. Three percent is the normal fluctuation. Crime down seven percent overall.

The FBI stats are a testament to owning weapons:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2009prelimsem/table_4co-id.html

How much would you pay to have that in England? Especially, London.

Crime, and, as a result, innocent victimization, is down all over the US. 48 states allow you to shoot people that appear to be in the process of murdering you.

Christ also said:

REV 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear:
REV 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Sowing destruction? Or, sowing peace?

And what about you? Are you sowing peace, or destruction?

Perhaps you should wake up and smell the coffee.

inn
May 3rd 2010, 07:35 AM
You have contradicted yourself, and I have tried to get you to speak the truth regarding the below, but you refuse.

Unless you clear this up, I can t see it worth going forward with you.

But perhaps you are a little immature that you don t see it necessary to clear these things, I m not sure, but your behaviour seems to be leaning in that direction more and more.

Here is what I asked you way back, check it out, and get back to me maturley please.

Dan, you seem to have chosen to avoid the question I posed in post 90.
Firstly needs to be dealt with first.

This is where your argument begins, your first point I can remember from comment on Lk 22:35,36( In post 66 ), you say;"It doesn't seem logical that Jesus would contradict what He just told His Apostles."

And now in post 89 you admit, there is in fact a contradiction.

Now how can I have a discussion with you when in fact you have said 2 contradicting statements?

That s why I need to ask you, which post is the correct one, 66 or 89?

And as I have pointed out earlier, you do not quote the full passage, and this has danger in misleading folk, yet you still persist in this. In verse 38 after your quote Lk22:35,36 Jesus says 2 swords are enough Dan, So it seems you are the one ignoring the words of Jesus.

Which post do I take as truth from you Dan, post 66 or 89?

And about these pictures you posted, I feel laughing about what God has commanded is a sad affair, and perhaps you need to consider editing them out; out of humble respect.

Blessings and peace.

inn
May 3rd 2010, 07:45 AM
Not possible? Jesus has taught me that weapons create peace. Historically speaking, He has been right.



Where does Jesus does teach you we must go to physical war? Jesus said love your enemies. This is a contradiction to the gospel Dan, but maybe that s why you do not quote Jesus saying this.

We are not told to learn from history Dan, which verse did you get that from?

Nothing you said about FBI, coffee, gun laws etc say we must go to war, so I don t know what you are on about.

Besides this, show me even one scripture that tells us to go to physical war in the New Testament? It s NOT there!

inn
May 3rd 2010, 07:56 AM
Here is what you have swept under the carpet, what I posted way back in post 89

I don't have a fancy p.c. so my new comments begin with a dash, a slow one -

-Servant, thanks, now we are going forward, you still missed one question from post 65.
I failed to find your answer to question I] Can you imagine one believing Jesus died for their sins in one situation, and in another situation they don’t believe it?



You say;

“I believe that when the righteous are stronger than the wicked it will bring peace.”

Our righteousness is ALREADY stronger than the wicked, as our righteousness is imputed righteousness, it is put into us by God Himself.

-Z] Do you acknowledge this Servant, or do you believe the wicked are stronger than the righteous. It’s good to notice the context of the question in the sentence above.

You say;

“I have faith in God but not like you have faith in God. I do not believe God will bring paradise NOW. That means, if we give away all our weapons, it will not bring paradise now.”

I don’t recall Jesus saying we must seek paradise now, but seek first His kingdom. It’s about obedience to His commands Servant. It’s not about trying to solve problems, it’s about obedience…seek first His kingdom, HE WILL DO THE REST!

-Y] Servant, do you acknowledge that as christians we need to seek first His kingdom?

You say;

“I have faith in both.”(Jesus, and bombs)

My answer will come in the form of an encouragement in that, I’d like to encourage you in the faith of our Lord Jesus.

God wants us to imitate Jesus as MUCH as we possibly can. His purpose was to teach the right way to behave and to provide salvation. We to need to show the right way to live and lead others to salvation. By dropping bombs on people, we CANNOT lead them to salvation.

-X] Do you acknowledge this Servant; “By dropping bombs on people, we CANNOT lead them to salvation.”?



Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Some of the folk who had bombs dropped on them were Christians in Japan. Do you believe this was edifying them by dropping bombs on them?

-W]Do you believe it was possible for there to be even one christian in that Japanise city that was bombed?

-V] Do you believe that this was truly an act of edifying your brother or sister by dropping a bomb on them? If you say yes, then I guess you will be asking someone to come and kill you in order to edify you, which is unreasonable, but I guess the military systems of this world often ask people to do unreasonable things.

-You quoting a proverb about a hundred lashes is out of place, as we are talking about bombing christians, [U] or are you calling you christian brother or sister a fool because they happen to be born Japanese?


Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

This is what God wants, unity in the faith and of the knowledge of the Son, and as we know His words and obey them, then our house is SECURE and on the rock,(I am speaking spiritually.) This is the stature of the fullness of Christ:

Do you want this in your life?

-Great that you answered yes. I guess a simple way to begin is by hearing the words of Jesus and obeying them by His grace.



Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

It’s only as we do what Jesus says that we can not be tossed about by wrong doctrines.

-T] Servant, do you want this fullness for the whole church?



Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

As I pointed out above, this love is not dropping bombs. I don’t know who you spend time with, but I have not yet met anyone who would say please love me by dropping a atomic bomb on me, do you?

-S]So is it possible Servant, that you have said you don ‘t know of people asking for love in the form of a bomb dropped on them, that dropping a bomb on them is perhaps not love at all?



Us as His body are fitted together and some want to go be fitted together with people who are disobedient in that they refuse to hear; Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

How do the gentiles walk? After the flesh; Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
We need to walk inthe ways of the Spirit Servant. What are the fruit of the Spirit, do you see anything about bombs,and injuring people, or do you see the opposite?

-R] If you don’t see dropping bombs as a friut of the spirit, then why do you believe christians get involved in this nonesense?

-Q] If God calls us to one thing, and the State calls us to another, is it not RIGHT to say; “Sorry State, but God does not want me to bear the fruit of the flesh and unrighteousness.”
-Servant, I have NEVER said once we must disarm any force, I am speaking as a servant of God who takes the teachings of Jesus seriously. We know that no earthly government will disarm, WE KNOW THAT, so why even bother with this hypothetical question. What I am saying, I am saying to the christian, to the follower of Christ!

- P] Do you get me on this Servant, as you keep going there? Speak to me as a brother/sister, not as a politican.
- O] Do you acknowledge this thread is about world peace, not rape Servant? Please keep to the topic
- N] Can you see that by posting 1 Tim 1:9 you are using an incorrect context?( as the context is a law/grace thing, the word law is used in that sense.)


There is NO New Testament verse that says the opposite to Eph 6:12
-“ For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

Blessings, rivers of peace, joy, life, peace….

dan
May 3rd 2010, 08:55 AM
Where does Jesus does teach you we must go to physical war? Jesus said love your enemies. This is a contradiction to the gospel Dan, but maybe that s why you do not quote Jesus saying this.

When the soldiers asked, "What must we do to be saved?" The answer was not to extort or bear false witness. Nowhere did anyone say to the soldier to give up their profession.

LK 3:14 And soldiers also asked him, saying, And we, what must we do? And he said unto them, Extort from no man by violence, neither accuse `any one' wrongfully; and be content with your wages.(The Bible In Basic English)

And, guess what? Soldiers go to war.

Do you really read the Bible?


We are not told to learn from history Dan, which verse did you get that from?

Prophecy. When prophecy comes true, it becomes, (are you ready?) ...history.


Nothing you said about FBI, coffee, gun laws etc say we must go to war, so I don t know what you are on about.

So, you have never read in the Bible (again) that you shall know them by their fruits?

Maybe we should try a little addition and subtraction. When you subtract 21 percent of the murders from a previous year is that a "good" thing?


Besides this, show me even one scripture that tells us to go to physical war in the New Testament? It s NOT there!

Really? Let's look closer.

The soldier verse mentioned above is one.

Buying of swords is another, because weapons are used for war. That's two.

The man defending his home is three:

MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

The strong armed man is four:

LK 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his court, those things are in peace which he possesseth.

I believe that the verse that has Jesus weeping over Jerusalem is five, because the knowledge of the things that make for peace has been lost, and one of the things that make peace is the ability to make war.

That also ties in very nicely with Daniel 11:22, where the weapons are destroyed right before all references to Christ are destroyed.

Revelation 13:10 is six, as it describes self-defense, which is a microcosm of war.

REV 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Then Revelation 18:6 which tells us to make war on the whore is seven.

REV 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

So, yeah, it's in there.

inn
May 3rd 2010, 12:09 PM
Dan, you seem to not mind been seen as dishonest. Please clear up your contradiction I pointed out.(post 114) If you do not, you wil have this looming over your head, and it is not easy debating with you if i feel you are been dishonest.

For a lack of time, none of the verses you quoted say; go to physical war,NOT ONE!

Love your enemies
In peace

dan
May 3rd 2010, 08:47 PM
Dan, you seem to not mind been seen as dishonest. Please clear up your contradiction I pointed out.(post 114) If you do not, you wil have this looming over your head, and it is not easy debating with you if i feel you are been dishonest.

For a lack of time, none of the verses you quoted say; go to physical war,NOT ONE!

Love your enemies
In peace

...But they don't always tell you the truth.

I would say that it's a lucky thing that some Christians believe in war.

Without that belief, many would be dead a long time ago.

As it turns out, this unbelief of the present and future will result in many unjustifiable deaths.

It is prophesied in the Bible:

DAN 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

For those that don't see: The bad guy will use peace as a weapon and shall destroy many.

Hint: Do not allow others to maintain your physical peace, but, rather, make it and maintain it yourself.

Servant89
May 3rd 2010, 09:54 PM
[QUOTE=inn;2400727]Here is what you have swept under the carpet, what I posted way back in post 89
QUOTE]

inn: You are officially the worst listener I have ever seen. By far...

It is amazing to me ...

Shalom

inn
May 4th 2010, 10:06 AM
inn: You are officially the worst listener I have ever seen. By far...

It is amazing to me ...

Shalom


As usual, you do not back what you say with any eveidence. I stail await your answers fr post 89.
Blessings

RabbiKnife
May 4th 2010, 02:39 PM
Inn,

How about you do us all a favor and stop judging men's hearts by calling them dishonest. They may interpret scripture differently than you, they may apply it culturally in a culture that is different than your culture, but you have absolutely no basis to call any man dishonest. You can say you don't agree; you can say you don't understand their position; you can say that you don't know if they understand the implications of their posts.

But you'll call me dishonest once, and immature once, before I write you off as a judgmental nutcase.

If you want to have dialogue, this is the place for it.

But the name-calling needs to stop. These are your brothers and sisters in Christ you are addressing, and unless you've been given as special role as Holy Spirit, Jr., your posts are coming across -- at least on this side of the pond-- as very judgmental. You are likely to have little meaningful dialogue in that tone.

Your brothers on this site have given you a clear apologetic that explains that
a. Jesus did not condemn those who were soldiers;
b. John the Baptist did not condemn those who were soldiers;
c. The government has a clear role to play in wielding the sword of justice, which includes war.

Jesus didn't say anything about air conditioning, or birth control, or automobiles, but He expects us, through the Holy Spirit and the counsel of other believers, to understand His word and to relate to the world in which we find ourselves.

You disagree. That's OK.

inn
May 4th 2010, 02:51 PM
Inn,

How about you do us all a favor and stop judging men's hearts by calling them dishonest. They may interpret scripture differently than you, they may apply it culturally in a culture that is different than your culture, but you have absolutely no basis to call any man dishonest. You can say you don't agree; you can say you don't understand their position; you can say that you don't know if they understand the implications of their posts.

But you'll call me dishonest once, and immature once, before I write you off as a judgmental nutcase.

If you want to have dialogue, this is the place for it.


You disagree. That's OK.

Have you read the posts where i ve called the folk on their actions?
Perhaps you need to start there, and then site the direct and specific situations.I still get the impression you are immature by the way you attempt to dialogue.
Write me off if you will, but at least try and address the questions I pose, and if I have written something you feel offended by, site it, quote it and let s sort it out. That s the way I have done it.
That s speaking the truth in love. What you have just done is fling mud indiscriminately.

We are called to speak the truth in love, and that s what i am seeking to do in here.I have meant no offence and appologise if i have offended anyone but pease let s sort out the specific issues, not just fling mud like you have done.
love

RabbiKnife
May 4th 2010, 02:54 PM
That's me, immature mud-flinging war-monger. And no, I don't believe that the Gospels, or any other portion of Scripture, should be used to prooftext pacificism.

I'll now apply the Scripture in Proverbs that I think is appropriate and move on.

inn
May 4th 2010, 03:01 PM
Your brothers on this site have given you a clear apologetic that explains that
a. Jesus did not condemn those who were soldiers;
b. John the Baptist did not condemn those who were soldiers;
c. The government has a clear role to play in wielding the sword of justice, which includes war.

Jesus didn't say anything about air conditioning, or birth control, or automobiles, but He expects us, through the Holy Spirit and the counsel of other believers, to understand His word and to relate to the world in which we find ourselves.

You disagree. That's OK.

I haven t mensioned air con, birth con, autos etc

I haven t said Jesus or John condemned soldiers.

I never said the government has no place.

It seems like you need to read the thread again, perhaps you and all those going on about those points!

The point is John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
I am not so interested in what Jesus didn t say to the soldiers, as to what He says to us today, and this is been BLATANTLY ignored!
Love your enemies.
Love

inn
May 4th 2010, 03:04 PM
That's me, immature mud-flinging war-monger. And no, I don't believe that the Gospels, or any other portion of Scripture, should be used to prooftext pacificism.

I'll now apply the Scripture in Proverbs that I think is appropriate and move on.

Do what you want please, but again, you do not really want to look at the issue, fling mud then and move on, Prov or no proverb, but I ask you to please look into the mirror and ask yourself, am I really being mature about this?

Servant89
May 4th 2010, 10:48 PM
As usual, you do not back what you say with any eveidence. I stail await your answers fr post 89.
Blessings

LOL, wow, I will say it again ...

Amazing!

Shalom

dan
May 5th 2010, 05:02 AM
...And praise Him for The Word, may we be allowed to perform His Will. Amen.

DAN 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
DAN 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
DAN 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

inn
May 5th 2010, 07:12 AM
Mt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mt 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Servant89
May 6th 2010, 12:11 PM
Mt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mt 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Amen to that. Amen!

But that does not mean we need to get rid of Romans 13. Does it? Mat 12:1-6 states that there are exceptions to the rules and we must acknowledge them, otherwise, we fall into error.

Shalom

dan
May 6th 2010, 04:25 PM
Mt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mt 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

...That I can explain your complaints about my view, but that you cannot explain my differences with yours?

inn
May 6th 2010, 05:45 PM
...That I can explain your complaints about my view, but that you cannot explain my differences with yours?


Dan, please go ahead and then explain my complaints about your view, I feel you will get it completely wrong, but like the questions I ve asked you way back you don t get back to me on.
You first said in post 66 that there was a contradiction between Lk 10 Lk 22, then in post 89 you said there was no contradiction. To not clear this is to be dishonest, you have to stand by post 66 or 89.

Now you again try and get us side tracted. Have you read what someone commented about this Daniel scripture from post 19? Perhaps you quote like this because you have not read the thread.

I can t remember Jesus ever saying that this Daniel word has revelence today, and that this word cancells out what He said about being peacemakers and loving our enemies.

But anyway, you have said you can explain my complaints about your view; I take you up on that, give it a shot, but I d much rather you clear what I said about your posts 66 and 89, and that you be honest about where you accuse me of quoting out of context in post 112, I look forward to hearing from you.
Love and peace

dan
May 7th 2010, 12:42 PM
Dan, please go ahead and then explain my complaints about your view, I feel you will get it completely wrong, but like the questions I ve asked you way back you don t get back to me on.
You first said in post 66 that there was a contradiction between Lk 10 Lk 22, then in post 89 you said there was no contradiction. To not clear this is to be dishonest, you have to stand by post 66 or 89.

Now you again try and get us side tracted. Have you read what someone commented about this Daniel scripture from post 19? Perhaps you quote like this because you have not read the thread.

I can t remember Jesus ever saying that this Daniel word has revelence today, and that this word cancells out what He said about being peacemakers and loving our enemies.

But anyway, you have said you can explain my complaints about your view; I take you up on that, give it a shot, but I d much rather you clear what I said about your posts 66 and 89, and that you be honest about where you accuse me of quoting out of context in post 112, I look forward to hearing from you.
Love and peace

Thank you for your honesty.

inn
May 7th 2010, 07:16 PM
Thank you for your honesty.

Dan, I love you man, you are welcome, is this all I get from you. I know you well enough to know you can to better, but if I don t hear from you I wish you all the best, I am passionate about love, as in the end, that s what seems to count. 1 cor 13.
Blessings, love and peace

inn
May 8th 2010, 10:04 PM
That's me, immature mud-flinging war-monger. And no, I don't believe that the Gospels, or any other portion of Scripture, should be used to prooftext pacificism.

I'll now apply the Scripture in Proverbs that I think is appropriate and move on.

Just to clear any possible misunderstandings. The words above belong to Rabbiknife, just in case anyone thought I said them.

Dugdeep
May 12th 2010, 12:09 PM
I am new in here, but I think this thread has so many stars because it's onto a good thing here. Those who believe that Jesus is the peacemaker are onto a good thing for sure! Those that believe that God wants people to go to war to solve problems have missed the boat.

-SEEKING-
May 12th 2010, 12:16 PM
I am new in here, but I think this thread has so many stars because it's onto a good thing here. Those who believe that Jesus is the peacemaker are onto a good thing for sure! Those that believe that God wants people to go to war to solve problems have missed the boat.

Well what about King David, Moses, Joshua, Solomon? Did they miss the boat as well?

Dugdeep
May 12th 2010, 12:23 PM
Well what about King David, Moses, Joshua, Solomon? Did they miss the boat as well?

I think I remember reading in here, and I agree, that these whom you mension were under the old covenant. It' s only us under the New Covenant that miss the boat if we want to kill in order to bring peace, I think.

-SEEKING-
May 12th 2010, 12:28 PM
I think I remember reading in here, and I agree, that these whom you mension were under the old covenant. It' s only us under the New Covenant that miss the boat if we want to kill in order to bring peace, I think.

Well it's certainly a valid point you make. But I did bring it up because they too were servants of God.

Dugdeep
May 12th 2010, 12:38 PM
Well it's certainly a valid point you make. But I did bring it up because they too were servants of God.


That's great that you bring this up, as in heir day and time they did wonderful things, but it seems to me, that now under this great New Covenant, we have a different example to follow, Jesus our Hero!

Calypsis4
May 12th 2010, 12:43 PM
World peace will be when the Prince of Peace returns to earth and establishes His kingdom.

May it be soon!

Servant89
May 12th 2010, 10:08 PM
World peace will be when the Prince of Peace returns to earth and establishes His kingdom.

May it be soon!


Yes and Jesus who is far more perfect than us will bring a millenium of peace. But how will he do that? By burning this planet with fire (which will make Hiroshima and Nagasaki look like firecrakers) and then rulling the nations with a rod or iron.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

That is how the NT states that the perfect one will bring world peace with the wicked. There is no other way.

Or wait, wait, wait, ... there are some here that think they are more efficient than Christ and can bring world peace by being nice. Identify yourselves now.

The only peace treaty that I am aware of that worked, that actually worked is the one between US and Japan, and how did we get them to cooperate? Anyone? Why did it it work?

Shalom

Butch5
May 12th 2010, 10:56 PM
Well it's certainly a valid point you make. But I did bring it up because they too were servants of God.

Hi seeking,

Let me suggest that Christ brought a new Law which supersedes the old law.

Isaiah 42:1-9 ( KJV )
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

This prophecy is clearly speaking of Christ, in it God says the Isles (Gentiles) shall wait for his law. This is the new law that Christ brought, the old law has been superseded. Notice what God says, the former things are come to pass, the old covenant is passing away, God says "new things do I declare." The new things are the law that Christ brought. God says He tells this before it happens. Isaiah isn't the only one to speak of this, Moses told of a prophet that God would raise up from among the Jews and he said whoever would not listen to that prophet would be cut off from the people.


Deuteronomy 18:15-19 ( KJV )
The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus said,


John 7:16 ( KJV )
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

In case there is any question about who this prophet is Peter assures us.


Acts 3:19-24 ( KJV )
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

I think it is clear that God foretold of a time when Christ would come and He would bring a new law, "Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare:" The time of war and violence ended when Christ initiated the New covenant.

The Mighty Sword
May 13th 2010, 01:47 AM
Hi seeking,

Let me suggest that Christ brought a new Law which supersedes the old law.



Matthew 5:17-18 (King James Version)

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Galations 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Supercede??? No, fullfill??? Yes.

RabbiKnife
May 13th 2010, 01:30 PM
We get so tied up in word arguments.

When a contract is fulfilled, it means that all of the terms and obligations of the agreement have been met. Sometimes, this is by actually doing all the things required in the contract. Sometimes, it is by entering into a new agreement that both supercedes, replaces, does away with, voids, completes, fulfills, etc...the previous agreement.

Whichever word you pick, the outcome is the same.

The old agreement has no more power or relevance to the parties to the new agreement in the slightest. It is as if were never even written.

-SEEKING-
May 13th 2010, 02:07 PM
MOD NOTE:

This thread has been closed since OP is no longer able to participate.