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chad
Mar 19th 2010, 09:24 PM
Adam and eve never ate from the tree of life (Gen 3:22), but we inherit eternal life in the sense of never being able to die spiritually. When a person dies (If they have not accepted Christ), they inherit eternal punishment in hades and then the lake of fire.

So were we created with eternal life from the beginning?

-SEEKING-
Mar 19th 2010, 09:30 PM
Adam and eve never ate from the tree of life (Gen 3:22),

Could it be that they did eat of it, but were no longer allowed to?

Crosstalk
Mar 19th 2010, 10:15 PM
It depends on how you define life. Spiritual death occurs when one sins but we all have eternal spirits and each persons spirit will live on through
eternity in one of two places. So if you look at it that way then I suppose we are born with an eternal existence but I wouldn't confuse the issue
by calling it eternal life. 1 John 5:12

CRJarvis
Mar 19th 2010, 11:34 PM
and this is where when someone makes an assumption on scriptures,
Seeing it never said they had not ate of the tree of life.
yet his action was to stop them from eating it,
it really does not say here but what about the breath of Life?
and man does not live by bread alone, but from the breath (words) of God?

וַיֹּאמֶר = and to say/ (if a word starts with a "וַ" it is a and)
יְהוָה = YHVH (name of God)
אֱלֹהִים, = 'elohiym {el-o-heem'} (KJV translates it as God, rulers or judges,
הֵן = Behold / Lo "to calling attention to some fact upon which action is to be taken"
הָאָדָם = The Man (seeing Adam's name means Man. add a atricle הָ = The)
הָיָה = has became, take place, come about, come to pass
כְּאַחַד= Like (כְּ) Them, the other, One/s, another
מִמֶּנּוּ, = Decided or reasoned ,expressing the idea of separation, (that they will decided what is Good and evil)
לָדַעַת, = (To ="לָ") learn, to know, to perceive
טוֹב= Good, a good thing
וָרָע; = And "וַ" Evil, bad;
וְעַתָּה = and Now
פֶּן-יִשְׁלַח = Lest to send
יָדוֹ, = Hand
וְלָקַח = and to take, take and carry along with oneself
גַּם = also
מֵעֵץ = From Tree
הַחַיִּים, = The Life
וְאָכַל, = and to consume, Eat
וָחַי = and to live
לְעֹלָם. = to, into/ long duration, antiquity (for ever)

I hope you like this, it takes time to do.
And please check it out for your self.

Sirus
Mar 19th 2010, 11:54 PM
Adam and eve never ate from the tree of life (Gen 3:22), but we inherit eternal life in the sense of never being able to die spiritually. When a person dies (If they have not accepted Christ), they inherit eternal punishment in hades and then the lake of fire.

So were we created with eternal life from the beginning?How are you defining eternal life? We have eternal life and have past from death to life but are still mortal in constitution. We have the Spirit. Anything the Spirit dwells in will live forever. Did they have the Spirit? It doesn't say they did. We can take an educated guess they did. We know as long as they had access to the tree of life they would live forever. The tree of life shows up again in the future for the same purpose. That said, there is no scripture that even implies they were created and made in their constitution to live forever. That's what the tree of life was for and as long as they could access the tree of life there was no physical death (Rom 5:12) -separation from this natural world. Very good is not perfect. Very good is for His will and purpose from the foundation of the earth -mortal man glorified in Christ. There is however scripture that says the first man was earthy, natural, corruptible -1Cor 15. Man was created mortal with provision from God to escape corruption. That's what scripture says. Very plainly I might add. It's not debatable, since there is not even one verse that even implies otherwise.

crossnote
Mar 20th 2010, 12:48 AM
Death involves separation. Those that die the second death will forever be separated from God.. the source of Life. They, being separated eternally will exist suffering throughout eternity... certainly the saddest subject.

BroRog
Mar 20th 2010, 12:50 AM
Adam and eve never ate from the tree of life (Gen 3:22), but we inherit eternal life in the sense of never being able to die spiritually. When a person dies (If they have not accepted Christ), they inherit eternal punishment in hades and then the lake of fire.

So were we created with eternal life from the beginning?No. The idea of the eternal soul comes from Plato, not the Bible.

th1bill
Mar 20th 2010, 12:54 AM
There are two deaths possible and because of the number of "Christians" by osmoses, and linage I'll put it this way, the followers of Christ and the Fire Insurance policy holders will only experience the First Death, the Natural Death. Those that do not follow Christ and have not payed for their Fire Insurance will experience the First and the Second Death. The Second is the eternal separation from from God.

So, if the information your seeking is does anyone just Wink Out at the natural death the answer is no. We are created, every one of us in the image of God and that is, perhaps, one of the most misunderstood concepts taught in the scriptures. Every human on the Earth is created in this image so God is not white, brown, black, red or yellow. He does not have straight hair nor kinky hair. God is the Eternal Spirit that has never not existed and it is that image that we are created in. When a child is born they will never not exist again.

chad
Mar 20th 2010, 01:40 AM
Going from the NIV translation, (Which I know some people despise)...

(Gen 3:22 NIV) And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So was Gen 3:22 talking about the body not dying a physical death, or not dying a spiritual death? What was the purpose of the Tree of life (Was it to prevent physical death or spiritual death)?

When I say 'Eternal life' ... I am meaning, a soul living after physical death. Becuase those that have not accepted Christ, even though they have experinced the first death (Physical body), still exists in Hades, then at the final judgement into the lake of fire.

What I mean when I say eternal life is 'Existing eternally' after physical death - either in heaven or hades and later the lake of fire.



QUOTE=-SEEKING-;2370492]Could it be that they did eat of it, but were no longer allowed to?[/QUOTE]

CRJarvis
Mar 20th 2010, 02:16 AM
Could it be that they did eat of it, but were no longer allowed to?
seeking is right this ccould be.

if all we have is this one scripture then one can make this assumption.
now if we look at all scriptures that are about eternal life we will have a better understanding of what it is saying.

let really take a look at the Hebrew word used here.
לְעֹלָם. = to, into/ long duration, antiquity (for ever)

then at the Greek that was in most of the NT translated from the hebrew.
or in reference to the OT Hebrew scripture

anthony57
Mar 20th 2010, 02:23 AM
Adam and eve never ate from the tree of life (Gen 3:22), but we inherit eternal life in the sense of never being able to die spiritually. When a person dies (If they have not accepted Christ), they inherit eternal punishment in hades and then the lake of fire.

So were we created with eternal life from the beginning?

The elect of God, which Adam represents, was created for Eternal Life through Jesus christ.

CRJarvis
Mar 20th 2010, 03:11 AM
The elect of God, which Adam represents, was created for Eternal Life through Jesus christ.

KJV John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

KJV John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

KJV Zechariah 1:5 Your fathers, where are they? and the prophets, do they live for ever?

KJV Exodus 15:18 The LORD(YHVH) shall reign for ever and ever.

anthony57
Mar 20th 2010, 04:51 AM
The elect of God, those chosen in Christ before the world began, Have been given eternal life before they are born, by their eternal union with Jesus christ, who is eternal life which was with the Father 1 jn 1:

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

roaring tiger
Mar 20th 2010, 09:30 AM
Adam and eve never ate from the tree of life (Gen 3:22), but we inherit eternal life in the sense of never being able to die spiritually. When a person dies (If they have not accepted Christ), they inherit eternal punishment in hades and then the lake of fire.

So were we created with eternal life from the beginning?

Hi!!!chad greetings;
Yes, man is created with etrnal life.Gen.1:26 God made man in his image and likeness.
1Joh,5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father,the Word nd the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.Father is God,the Word is God,and the Holy Ghost is God but they are not
three but, one God.Is.45:5I am the Lord,and there is none else,there is no God before me:I girded
thee,thou hast not known me.
1 Joh.5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth,the spirit,and the blood and the water.
This a metaphor of 1Thes.5:23 And the very God sanctify you wholly and I pray God your whole spirit,and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So God has triunity but one essence one God,so as a man has spirit(life),soul,and body;but one man.God is eternal,so the spirit (life) that we receive from him is also eternal.
If,life itself is eternal;then what will be the purpose that we are given commandment and doctrine
to believe to God to have everlasting life?
Because if the body with out spirit is dead,so is belief with out work is dead. In believing to Jesus
we can have salvation of or soul.
We need not worry about life because the spirit(life) will never suffer death.Eccl.12:7 Then shall
the dust(flesh) return to the earth as it was and the spirit return to God who gave it.
How about the soul?Eccl.3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man(life) that goeth upward,and the spirit of the beast (soul) that goeth downward.
When the three component of a man seperated is prophecise in Zech.13:8-9 And it shall come to pass,that in all the land,saith the Lord,two parts therein shall be cut off and die(flesh and soul):
but the third shall be left therein(life)
v.9) And I will be bring the third,and I will refine them as silver is refined,and will try them as gold is tried:they shall call on my name,and I will hear them will say,It is my people,and they shall
say,the Lord is my God.Those are the foreknow conformed to the image of his Son.Rom.8:29.
How could our soul have eternal life?1 Joh.5:11-13 And this is the record,that hath given to us
eternal life,and this life is in his Son.
v.12)He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
v.13)These things have I written to you that believe on the name of the Son of God;that you may know that ye have etrnal life,and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
How can we eat the tree of life now it was hidden by God to man when Adam sinned?
The tree of life was planted at hill of Calvary were Jesus was hunged.So,Jesus preach in Matt.10:38
And he that taketh not his cross,and followeth me is not worthy of me.
Matt.11:29 Take my yoke upon you,and learn of me;for I am meek and lowly in heart:and ye shall find rest unto your soul.
How could we have access to the tree of life?Rev.2:7 He that hath an ear hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches: To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,which is in the
midst of the paradise of God.How then could we know this?
Joh.14:26 But the Comforter,which is the Holy Ghost,whom the Father will send in my name,he
shall teach you all things,and bring all things to your remembrance,whatsoever I have said uto you.Hope this help.
Thank you and many blessing.
in love of Christ./RT.

RogerW
Mar 20th 2010, 01:30 PM
Adam and eve never ate from the tree of life (Gen 3:22), but we inherit eternal life in the sense of never being able to die spiritually. When a person dies (If they have not accepted Christ), they inherit eternal punishment in hades and then the lake of fire.

So were we created with eternal life from the beginning?

If we were created with eternal life within ourselves, why do we need to eat from the tree of life to live forever?

Many Blessings,
RW

BroRog
Mar 20th 2010, 07:25 PM
If we were created with eternal life within ourselves, why do we need to eat from the tree of life to live forever?

Many Blessings,
RWGood point Roger.

th1bill
Mar 20th 2010, 08:38 PM
If we were created with eternal life within ourselves, why do we need to eat from the tree of life to live forever?

Many Blessings,
RW

I have never tried to dig into this one for scripture support but that would be to prevent the first or the natural death.

Servant89
Mar 20th 2010, 09:15 PM
First of all, the Bible defines death as the separation of the physical body from the soul and spirit. When Abraham was dead (his soul was not with his body) God told Moses... that even though the soul of Abraham was outside his body, his soul was still alive and conscious.

Mat 22:31 ... have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

This is also repeated in the story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:20). This is further validated when Jesus told the thief at the cross, today you will be with me in paradise (dead, outside his body, but with a soul that is alive).

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

We remain mortals today (trust me on that). We shall receive eternal life later, at the resurrection from the dead and the rapture. We shall receive inmortality at the second coming of Christ.

1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Mk 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

That is why eternal life is the blessed hope, we hope to get it, because we do not have it yet.

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

P.S. The teachinng of soul sleep, meaning that the soul is not counscious when we are dead, it typical of the cults (JW and Mormons believe that), not a Christian teaching.

Shalom

roaring tiger
Mar 21st 2010, 07:37 AM
If we were created with eternal life within ourselves, why do we need to eat from the tree of life to live forever?

Many Blessings,
RW

Hi!!!Roger greetings;
Hope you will not mind if I answer this,bcause as what I see "chad" and me belong to same position
but I will answer only on my self.

First, I would clarify our thread is "if we were created with eternal life". As what I had explain in my
previous post,I said that God created man in his image and likeness.God have a triune divinity the
Father,the Word,and the Holy Ghost.1Joh.5:7 and they bear record ,that these three are one.
So,when God created man they too had three components;spirit,soul and body;but they are not three
but one man.God is omnipresent or present everywhere,omnipotent or all powerfull ,omniscient or
knows all things.God is Spirit,life is spirit.When the word of God judges a man as what is shown
in Heb.4:12 word od of God will pierce even to dividing asunder of soul and spirit and of joints
and marrow.If this happen the man is now cut or divided into three.The spirit (life) which is eternal
shall return to God who gave it,the dust (flesh) shall return to earth as it was.The soul which signify as the seed of the beast shall go downward and shall await for judement days.Eccl.12:7, 3:7
The life which is the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world shall not die so,Jesus said Joh.6:62 What if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before.
1Joh.5:10-13 He that believe on the Son of God ahth the witness in himself:he that believeth not
God hath made him a liar;because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
v.11) And this the record,that God hath given to us eternal life,and this life is in his Son.
v.12) He that hath the Son hath life;and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
v.13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God;that ye may
know that ye have eternal life,and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
So,it was clear now that we have eternal life but we still have an enemy;the DEATH of our soul.
We still need to eat the tree of life for the sake of our dying soul.Like Jesus the seed of Abraham
is sowed in us,the Word of God the incorruptible seed or the Word of God is within us. When the
the Word was made flesh,and dwelt among us(and we beheld his glory,the glory as of the only
begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.The Word which is sown onevery one of us must
grow and multiplies Acts 12:24 until it reach the multitude of a tree.This is all spiritual things
that we can only learn by our faith with the guidance of the Holy Ghost or the Comforter which
Jesus said that shall be send by Father to his name.Breaking of bread (body of Jesus)and the
tree of life has the same meaning with different analogy.
If we overcome this,it was the fullfillment of Col.3:4 When Christ who is our life,shall appear,then
shall ye (soul)also appear with him in glory.
Thank you very much and many blessing.
in love of Christ./RT.

anthony57
Mar 21st 2010, 08:07 AM
If Adam [Mankind] had remained unfallen, without transgression, then He nor men in him could have entered that Kingdom of Eternal Glory to which all believers in Christ were destined before the foundation Matt 25:

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

2 tim 4:18

And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

At best, the life we had in Adam was earthly 1 cor 15:

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So if Adam would have continued perfect in the flesh and blood he was created in, He could not inherit the kingdom of God, prepared for the sheep from the foundation, remember, at his best Adam was still flesh and blood..

hebrews 2 :

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood [In Adam], he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And scripture says this 1 cor 15:

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So Man at His best unfallen state in flesh and blood, cannot inherit the kingdom of God..

As Jesus said, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, even Adam, in His unfallen state needed to be born again if He was to inherit the Kingdom of Glory..