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-SEEKING-
Mar 22nd 2010, 02:40 AM
I was having a discussion the other night with a good friend of mine when he suddenly asked me how many years I thought the Hebrews were in Egypt? I said right off the top of my head I think 250. He said that it was probably closer to 230. yet I've heard many others say 400 years and still others say 430. So I was just wondering if it was possible to get the exact number of years.

Thanks.

JohnDB
Mar 22nd 2010, 01:57 PM
Why not believe Exodus 12:41? It says what it says and I have absolutely no doubts about it.
(430 years to the day)

Also it goes hand in glove with what God promised Abraham during the treaty of the blood path.

Why the confusion? None of the other timelines fit as well as an exodus occurring in 1446 BC. Any other timeline suggestion has a whole laundry list of issues.

-SEEKING-
Mar 22nd 2010, 02:07 PM
I'll have to go and do some research but what I've heard is that the 430 years includes the calling of Abraham. That's why I asked the question. It has something do with the fact that Moses was only 4 generations from Levi. Again I have to look into it. It was in Chronicles where my friend stumbled upon this.

JohnDB
Mar 22nd 2010, 02:45 PM
In the Context of when God was speaking to Abraham a generation was 100 years. (one of them anthropological thingies...Abraham was to be a hundred years old when he had his first son Isaac)

Now...do you see how this is understood. "......In/during/after the fourth Generation.."?

It wasn't that this time frame included Abraham's time in Egypt...

The time frame began when Jacob/Israel and the whole family migrated to Egypt to avoid the famine.
(72 = birth of a nation)

-SEEKING-
Mar 22nd 2010, 03:15 PM
Thanks for your input John. As I said I'm kind of going blindly here. I'm at work but I will make a point of researching it further once I get home.

Servant89
Mar 22nd 2010, 10:53 PM
The 400 years refers to the period of time that Pharaoh afflicted Israel.

Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

The 430 years refer to the period of time between the time that Abraham heard the promise of God (his covenant), when he was 75 years old (see Gen 12:1-4) and the time Israel received the law (Exo 20).

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Israel was in Egypt for a while without being afflicted. The affliction started when Pharaoh died and a new king came to the throne.

Exo 1:1 Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob.
2 Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah,
3 Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin,
4 Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.
5 And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.
6 And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation.
7 And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them.
8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.

And that is when the affliction started.

Shalom

-SEEKING-
Mar 26th 2010, 12:49 PM
Ok. I was a bit busy and I finally had some time to look for the scriptures in 1 Chronicles that my friend mentioned. Here it is.

1 Chronicles 6:1-3 "The sons of Levi: Gershon, Kohath, and Merari. 2 The sons of Kohath: Amram, Izhar, Hebron, and Uzziel. 3 The children of Amram: Aaron, Moses, and Miriam."

So we have Levi, the son of Jacob. Levi had Kohath, Kohath had Amran, and Amran was Moses' father.
Now considering Levi was still alive when the Hebrews got to Egypt, there were only 2 generations before we get to Moses. So I can't see where the 430 years would only include the time in slavery.

JohnDB
Mar 26th 2010, 01:00 PM
Ok. I was a bit busy and I finally had some time to look for the scriptures in 1 Chronicles that my friend mentioned. Here it is.

1 Chronicles 6:1-3 "The sons of Levi: Gershon, Kohath, and Merari. 2 The sons of Kohath: Amram, Izhar, Hebron, and Uzziel. 3 The children of Amram: Aaron, Moses, and Miriam."

So we have Levi, the son of Jacob. Levi had Kohath, Kohath had Amran, and Amran was Moses' father.
Now considering Levi was still alive when the Hebrews got to Egypt, there were only 2 generations before we get to Moses. So I can't see where the 430 years would only include the time in slavery.

Because not all of the sons were listed. There were a few "gaps" in the genealogical chain written here.

And there sre reasons for this...

Partly because of in the Hebrew language there is no term for "grandfather" or "Great-grandfather"...Only "father".

Legacy was a big big thing to these in the ancient near east. Those "descendants" who did something extraordinary were usually mentioned and others overlooked but noted elsewhere.

Also...one other thing.

We are unable and unaccustomed to reading this in Hebrew. We look at these names as tags and not titles.
All of these names had meanings and definitions which were readily understood in Hebrew...but not English as tags transliterated from the Hebrew language. So...we don't see what is being written there.

BUT

If you were to take some time...write down the definitions to the names...use several sources...and then read the genealogies once again with the definitions read back in you will see something. And that something is quite remarkable.

What I am saying is that the Bible is written on a level of complexity that goes far far beyond what most will ever understand. And it is a miracle of writing.

But the story of Ruth should give a person a clue as to how Naomi had a baby even though Ruth had the child.

-SEEKING-
Mar 26th 2010, 02:04 PM
Because not all of the sons were listed. There were a few "gaps" in the genealogical chain written here.

Not that I doubt you but how do you know this to be a fact? Why would they go through the trouble of listing them, and then just skip some random names. You know what I mean.

JohnDB
Mar 26th 2010, 02:17 PM
Because they don't fit the sentence...ROFL...at a guess.

You have to do this process once to see what I am saying. (try Adam's lineage in Genesis)

Also...one other major principle to really affix in your mind. The bible is not a history book. It was written for the sole purpose of us to learn and understand some principles. Where the Bible may contain history as part of the telling of these principles...that is not it's focus.

-SEEKING-
Mar 26th 2010, 02:25 PM
Also...one other major principle to really affix in your mind. The bible is not a history book. It was written for the sole purpose of us to learn and understand some principles. Where the Bible may contain history as part of the telling of these principles...that is not it's focus.

Now that is an excellent point my brother. Thank you so much.

Servant89
Mar 27th 2010, 02:00 AM
Levi lived 137 yrs

Ex 6:16 And these are the names of the sons of Levi according to their generations; Gershon, and Kohath, and Merari: and the years of the life of Levi were an hundred thirty and seven years.

Kohath lived 133 yrs

Ex 6:18 And the sons of Kohath; Amram, and Izhar, and Hebron, and Uzziel: and the years of the life of Kohath were an hundred thirty and three years.

Amram lived 137 yrs

Ex 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years.

Moses was 80 years od when he delivered the law

137+133+137+80 = 487 yrs -430 yrs in Egypt = 57 ys of overlap... tight indeed. The Bible says that Abraham was impotent at 99 years old, and yet, God healed him so good, that when Sarah died (he was 137 yrs old then), he got a new young wife that gave him more children (healed him real good for sure) and he died 167 years old.

As for me, I believe the word of God, just the way it is.

Shalom

Shalom

JohnDB
Mar 27th 2010, 02:02 AM
I will probably die when I am seventy something...but I was thirty something when I had my son...

your math simply isn't feasable....


and on a side note...

Shem...Noah's son...and Abraham were alive both at the same time.

Abraham was seventy five when Shem passed.

Servant89
Mar 28th 2010, 02:14 PM
I will probably die when I am seventy something...but I was thirty something when I had my son...

your math simply isn't feasable.....

That is why I posted what happened to Abraham, in order for people to have faith and not judge situations based on their own experience.

Shalom

Cyberseeker
May 4th 2010, 09:54 AM
Ok. I was a bit busy and I finally had some time to look for the scriptures in 1 Chronicles that my friend mentioned. Here it is.

1 Chronicles 6:1-3 "The sons of Levi: Gershon, Kohath, and Merari. 2 The sons of Kohath: Amram, Izhar, Hebron, and Uzziel. 3 The children of Amram: Aaron, Moses, and Miriam."

So we have Levi, the son of Jacob. Levi had Kohath, Kohath had Amran, and Amran was Moses' father.
Now considering Levi was still alive when the Hebrews got to Egypt, there were only 2 generations before we get to Moses. So I can't see where the 430 years would only include the time in slavery.

I think it is not a strict 'father-son' genealogy and that other offspring were in-between. In other words Kohath and Amram were not the son, grandson and great-grandson of Levi, but his descendants. This is often the way Hebrew uses the word 'ben,' since it can refer either to an immediate son or a descendant.