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Firstfruits
Apr 1st 2010, 11:21 AM
With the understanding that the works of righteousness in the following scriptures are the works of the law, what is the work that God shall rememeber?

Tit 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=56&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Gal 3:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What is the work of the law of liberty by which we shall be blessed?

Jas 1:25 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=25) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Heb 6:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Firstfruits

theBelovedDisciple
Apr 1st 2010, 03:12 PM
With the understanding that the works of righteousness in the following scriptures are the works of the law, what is the work that God shall rememeber?

Tit 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=56&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Gal 3:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What is the work of the law of liberty by which we shall be blessed?

Jas 1:25 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=25) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Heb 6:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Firstfruits


First of all FF, one has to understand how one is Justifed Today.. is it thru their own work? religiious works? trying to Gain God's Favor by what they 'do'? hoping God will justify them by just how good they do it.. or the 'amount' of 'works' they do?


How is One Truely Justified FF? its thru Faith... the Just shall live by Faith...

and the Works a Genuine Chrisitan walks in are 'works' of Faith... these He had already ordained ahead of time.. even before the person was Saved by Jesus Christ... they walk in Faith in them.. these He has directed them into...

its not doing this and doing that.. feverishly.. regligiously.. hoping to gains God's Grace and Favor thru what you do...

He will show what He has designed and set forth for you to 'walk in'... for they were ordained ahead of time , like Paul states.. that Ye should walk in them.....

one has to go back to 'how are you justiifed'..

and those who believe they are 'justified' thru their own religious works.. no matter how dressed up there to look like the real thing... will contintue to live in that cycle of condemnation and guilt.. never measuring up to that 'image' that is put out there...

but then there are those Who are Genuinley Justified thru Faith.. in His Completed Work at Calvary... and this is a 'heart issue'.. God sees and knows the heart.. and He knows whom you Trust... and when it comes to Faith in His Son and what He has accomplshed.. thats where the rubber hits the road...


FF, You believe there is One God? thou doest well, the devils believe and tremble,

One says I have 'faith', the other says I have 'works'...

I will SHEW you Faith by my works...

Firstfruits
Apr 1st 2010, 03:28 PM
First of all FF, one has to understand how one is Justifed Today.. is it thru their own work? religiious works? trying to Gain God's Favor by what they 'do'? hoping God will justify them by just how good they do it.. or the 'amount' of 'works' they do?


How is One Truely Justified FF? its thru Faith... the Just shall live by Faith...

and the Works a Genuine Chrisitan walks in are 'works' of Faith... these He had already ordained ahead of time.. even before the person was Saved by Jesus Christ... they walk in Faith in them.. these He has directed them into...

its not doing this and doing that.. feverishly.. regligiously.. hoping to gains God's Grace and Favor thru what you do...

He will show what He has designed and set forth for you to 'walk in'... for they were ordained ahead of time , like Paul states.. that Ye should walk in them.....

one has to go back to 'how are you justiifed'..

and those who believe they are 'justified' thru their own religious works.. no matter how dressed up there to look like the real thing... will contintue to live in that cycle of condemnation and guilt.. never measuring up to that 'image' that is put out there...

but then there are those Who are Genuinley Justified thru Faith.. in His Completed Work at Calvary... and this is a 'heart issue'.. God sees and knows the heart.. and He knows whom you Trust... and when it comes to Faith in His Son and what He has accomplshed.. thats where the rubber hits the road...


FF, You believe there is One God? thou doest well, the devils believe and tremble,

One says I have 'faith', the other says I have 'works'...

I will SHEW you Faith by my works...

We are justified freely by Gods grace/mercy.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

How then are we redeemed by Christ Jesus, how are we reconclied to God?

According to the scriptures there are two type of work, one not recognized by God and one that is recognized by God.

Tit 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=56&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Gal 3:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Jas 1:25 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=25) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Heb 6:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

What is the difference?

Firstfruits

notuptome
Apr 1st 2010, 03:37 PM
But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. John 5:17

Worked Jesus the works of the law? What works did Jesus work?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Firstfruits
Apr 1st 2010, 03:43 PM
But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. John 5:17

Worked Jesus the works of the law? What works did Jesus work?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

We receive Jesus by the hearing the faith of the gospel.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

How do we work the work of God according to Jesus?

Firstfruits

BroRog
Apr 1st 2010, 03:53 PM
With the understanding that the works of righteousness in the following scriptures are the works of the law, what is the work that God shall rememeber?

Tit 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=56&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Gal 3:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What is the work of the law of liberty by which we shall be blessed?

Jas 1:25 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=25) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Heb 6:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

FirstfruitsI don't think Titus 3:5 is talking about works of the Law. The focus here are moral acts. God did not save us on the basis of our moral acts, he says, but on the basis of his mercy.

BroRog
Apr 1st 2010, 03:58 PM
We are justified freely by Gods grace/mercy.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

How then are we redeemed by Christ Jesus, how are we reconclied to God?

According to the scriptures there are two type of work, one not recognized by God and one that is recognized by God.

Tit 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=56&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Gal 3:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Jas 1:25 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=25) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Heb 6:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

What is the difference?

Firstfruits

God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

notuptome
Apr 1st 2010, 04:01 PM
We receive Jesus by the hearing the faith of the gospel.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

How do we work the work of God according to Jesus?

Firstfruits
Tell to all the world that salvation is come.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Bandit
Apr 1st 2010, 04:18 PM
With the understanding that the works of righteousness in the following scriptures are the works of the law...

I am sorry, Firstfruits, but I would have a disagreement with your very first statement. The law (Old Covenant) is not the only covenant which requires that one live righteously. The real problem is that so many are taught, and want to believe, that how they live has no bearing on their salvation; but the New Testament scriptures contain numerous passages which (attempt to) teach that how one lives does determine how one is eventually judged. Living rightly before God is no accident - it is an ongoing, conscience decision. I hope you are not trying to say that once a person is “saved” that all the rest is automatic. (Nor do I hope you are saying that how we live does not determine our final judgement.)

notuptome
Apr 1st 2010, 05:00 PM
I am sorry, Firstfruits, but I would have a disagreement with your very first statement. The law (Old Covenant) is not the only covenant which requires that one live righteously. The real problem is that so many are taught, and want to believe, that how they live has no bearing on their salvation; but the New Testament scriptures contain numerous passages which (attempt to) teach that how one lives does determine how one is eventually judged. Living rightly before God is no accident - it is an ongoing, conscience decision. I hope you are not trying to say that once a person is “saved” that all the rest is automatic. (Nor do I hope you are saying that how we live does not determine our final judgement.)
What do you think Jesus was teaching in John 5:24 when He said "(believers) have everlasting life and shall not come into judgement"?

Belief determines behaviour not behaviour determining belief. We live for Christ because the Holy Spirit is in us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Firstfruits
Apr 1st 2010, 08:59 PM
Tell to all the world that salvation is come.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That would therefore be according to the gospel, since it is through the gospel that we are saved.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Apr 1st 2010, 09:03 PM
I am sorry, Firstfruits, but I would have a disagreement with your very first statement. The law (Old Covenant) is not the only covenant which requires that one live righteously. The real problem is that so many are taught, and want to believe, that how they live has no bearing on their salvation; but the New Testament scriptures contain numerous passages which (attempt to) teach that how one lives does determine how one is eventually judged. Living rightly before God is no accident - it is an ongoing, conscience decision. I hope you are not trying to say that once a person is “saved” that all the rest is automatic. (Nor do I hope you are saying that how we live does not determine our final judgement.)

Do the following not clearly state "works of the law"?

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What then is it that you do not agree with regarding the works of the law?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Apr 1st 2010, 09:06 PM
God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Thanks BroRog,

Is the law of liberty not the same as the law of works?

Firstfruits

Bandit
Apr 1st 2010, 09:16 PM
What do you think Jesus was teaching in John 5:24 when He said "(believers) have everlasting life and shall not come into judgement"?

Belief determines behaviour not behaviour determining belief. We live for Christ because the Holy Spirit is in us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, the believer (one who is presently a believer) has life. Belief and behavior go hand-in-hand. You can often determine what one believes by how they live. If God is important to them - they live according to His precepts (as they understand them). If God is not important to them - they live as they please.

Firstfruits
Apr 1st 2010, 09:24 PM
Yes, the believer (one who is presently a believer) has life. Belief and behavior go hand-in-hand. You can often determine what one believes by how they live. If God is important to them - they live as He according to His precepts (as they understand them). If God is not important to them - they live as they please.

Amen!

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Firstfruits

Bandit
Apr 1st 2010, 09:29 PM
Do the following not clearly state "works of the law"?

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What then is it that you do not agree with regarding the works of the law?

Firstfruits

I think we need to understand the purpose for Paul's words. My understanding of these verses is that Paul is pointing out that the baptism of the Spirit comes by the New Covenant (which he calls "faith") and not by the Old Covenant (which he calls "law"). But both covenants call for the pursuit of righteousness by their participants. Paul is not saying anything to the effect that one's behavior is not relevant to New Covenant. Need I remind you of certain passages within the Book of Galatians which speak of the need of upright behavior and the judgement which will fall upon those who do not "walk in the spirit"?

notuptome
Apr 1st 2010, 09:38 PM
I think we need to understand the purpose for Paul's words. My understanding of these verses is that Paul is pointing out that the baptism of the Spirit comes by the New Covenant (which he calls "faith") and not by the Old Covenant (which he calls "law"). But both covenants call for the pursuit of righteousness by their participants. Paul is not saying anything to the effect that one's behavior is not relevant to New Covenant. Need I remind you of certain passages within the Book of Galatians which speak of the need of upright behavior and the judgement which will fall upon those who do not "walk in the spirit"?
Believers do not pursue righteousness but receive the righteousness of Christ by grace through faith.

Grace produces righteous behaviour. Behaviour can only be an indicator not a progenitor of righteousness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Butch5
Apr 1st 2010, 09:56 PM
With the understanding that the works of righteousness in the following scriptures are the works of the law, what is the work that God shall rememeber?

Tit 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=56&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Gal 3:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=5) He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What is the work of the law of liberty by which we shall be blessed?

Jas 1:25 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=25) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Heb 6:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Firstfruits

The good works that God will remember are those at the end of Matthew 25.

Bandit
Apr 1st 2010, 10:06 PM
Believers do not pursue righteousness but receive the righteousness of Christ by grace through faith.

Grace produces righteous behaviour. Behaviour can only be an indicator not a progenitor of righteousness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger


Sorry, but you are merely spouting off calvinist doctrine.

Butch5
Apr 1st 2010, 10:13 PM
Sorry, but you are merely spouting off calvinist doctrine.

Agreed, if Grace prduced righteous behavior, then all men would be righteous since,


Titus 2:11-12 ( KJV )
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

However, we see that Paul had a different understanding, that Grace taught men how to live but didn't make them live that way.

notuptome
Apr 1st 2010, 10:54 PM
Sorry, but you are merely spouting off calvinist doctrine.
Totally unfounded accusation. It is not productive to label another for the sake of refuting their position.

2 Cor 5:21 clearly teaches that we are made the righteousness of God in Christ.

Grace is not exclusive to the Calvinist. Grace is central to the doctrine of salvation in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome
Apr 1st 2010, 10:57 PM
Agreed, if Grace prduced righteous behavior, then all men would be righteous since,


Titus 2:11-12 ( KJV )
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

However, we see that Paul had a different understanding, that Grace taught men how to live but didn't make them live that way.
Is that the understanding of Rom 10:3?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

BroRog
Apr 2nd 2010, 01:56 AM
Thanks BroRog,

Is the law of liberty not the same as the law of works?

FirstfruitsIn what context?

Beckrl
Apr 2nd 2010, 02:18 AM
Thanks BroRog,

Is the law of liberty not the same as the law of works?

Firstfruits

The perfect law of liberty is the law of Christ. 1 Cor.9:21, Gal. 6: 2 Reflective of law, Jesus asked the question, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Lk. 6: 46). Also, "If ye love me, keep my commandments"

Firstfruits
Apr 2nd 2010, 11:19 AM
In what context?

There is no justification in the works of the law, but there is justification when we do the works of the law of liberty. If they are the same then would they not both be counted for righteousness?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Apr 2nd 2010, 11:21 AM
The perfect law of liberty is the law of Christ. 1 Cor.9:21, Gal. 6: 2 Reflective of law, Jesus asked the question, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Lk. 6: 46). Also, "If ye love me, keep my commandments"

With the underestanding of what Jesus has commanded, how do we fulfil the law of liberty?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Apr 2nd 2010, 11:25 AM
The good works that God will remember are those at the end of Matthew 25.

How do the good works that God will remember apply to the end of Matthew 25?

Firstfruits

Butch5
Apr 2nd 2010, 12:34 PM
Is that the understanding of Rom 10:3?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Romans 10:3 does not say that Christ's righteousness is mputed to anyone. There is no Scripture that says Christ's righteousness is imputed. That is a reformed doctrine.

What is the rightouesness of God?

BroRog
Apr 2nd 2010, 03:45 PM
There is no justification in the works of the law, but there is justification when we do the works of the law of liberty. If they are the same then would they not both be counted for righteousness?

FirstfruitsI was hoping you would supply the context. What particular circumstance to you have in mind, or what passage? For instance, in Galatians Paul remarks that he and Peter know from experience that "by works of the Law no man can be justified." But he prefaces this remark the observation that he and Peter are "not sinners from among the Gentiles." What he means is: there are certain things that Jews do in the context of the Mt. Sinai covenant that set them apart from Gentiles. Jews have certain festivals to keep, and they can't mix cloth, or drink a mother cow's milk while eating her calf, etc. The Pharisees taught the people to anticipate God's favor if their culture would observe all of these social and religious rules. Paul argues that God would never grant his favor based on the observance of certain rules, especially if some of those rules were designed to highlight his moral ineptitude.

James is the one who talks about the law of liberty, which I understand as the royal law, or the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. This particular law has no ritual aspects such as Paul mentions in Galatians. Real love doesn't wait for Valentines day, Mother's day, or Father's day to express itself. Love finds expression everyday and under the most perplexing of circumstances.

BroRog
Apr 2nd 2010, 04:21 PM
That is a reformed doctrine.Hey, you say that like it's a bad thing. :) :P

My friend Jack Crabtree coined the word "justifiedness" which attempts to get at the real issue behind passages such as this. Our English word "righteousness" can be misleading. In Romans 10, the issue isn't righteousness:the state of being morally right, but justifiedness:the state of being right with God.

As I understand it, justice in the first century was slightly different than ours. Suppose that I in a fit of anger I killed your dog. In our culture I would either go to jail or pay a fine or both. In the first century court, a judge might turn to you and ask, "what would it take to satisfy you?" You could say, "All I want is an apology." If I apologized, the judge would then render me "justified", which is to say, "the man will not be punished. He has given the plaintiff what he wanted." To be "justified" in this instance isn't a declaration that what I did was right. Rather, it is a declaration that the court will not punish me, since the plaintiff got what he wanted and the court will not bring criminal charges.

Romans 10, presents us with the question: How was Israel supposed to seek God's declaration of "I will not punish you." In this situation, God has something against us and we would like to seek his mercy. We come to him hoping that he will declare to us, "not to be punished." And God has decided to give this declaration under certain circumstances. And Paul argues that Israel didn't know the conditions under which God would grant "not to be punished" but invented a means of their own.

Here is what I think Paul was trying to say,

Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about God's (conditions under which he would declare "not to be punished") and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to (God's conditions under which he would declare "not to be punished") (For the law realizes it's ultimate purpose in Christ, who guarantees the declaration of "not to be punished" for all those who believe him.)

Firstfruits
Apr 2nd 2010, 04:35 PM
I was hoping you would supply the context. What particular circumstance to you have in mind, or what passage? For instance, in Galatians Paul remarks that he and Peter know from experience that "by works of the Law no man can be justified." But he prefaces this remark the observation that he and Peter are "not sinners from among the Gentiles." What he means is: there are certain things that Jews do in the context of the Mt. Sinai covenant that set them apart from Gentiles. Jews have certain festivals to keep, and they can't mix cloth, or drink a mother cow's milk while eating her calf, etc. The Pharisees taught the people to anticipate God's favor if their culture would observe all of these social and religious rules. Paul argues that God would never grant his favor based on the observance of certain rules, especially if some of those rules were designed to highlight his moral ineptitude.

James is the one who talks about the law of liberty, which I understand as the royal law, or the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. This particular law has no ritual aspects such as Paul mentions in Galatians. Real love doesn't wait for Valentines day, Mother's day, or Father's day to express itself. Love finds expression everyday and under the most perplexing of circumstances.

The first scriptures tells us that when we do the works of law of liberty we shall be blessed/justified. The second tells us we shall not be justified by doing the works of the law, even to say that those who do so are fallen from grace.

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without The deeds of The law.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Firstfruits

Jemand
Apr 2nd 2010, 05:11 PM
The perfect law of liberty is the law of Christ. 1 Cor.9:21, Gal. 6: 2 Reflective of law, Jesus asked the question, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Lk. 6: 46). Also, "If ye love me, keep my commandments"

1 Cor. 9:20. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
21. to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Gal. 6:2. Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

I agree with Beckrl.

Both Paul and James distinguished between the Law as found in the Old Testament covenant, and the commandments of Christ.

John 14:15. “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.”

John 14:21. “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

John 15:10. “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”

Rom. 3:19. Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20. because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
21. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22. even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

Keeping the works of the Law will never justify anyone, but neither will anyone ever be justified who fails to obey the commandments of Christ.

James 1:25. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

James 2:19. You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22. You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
24. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25. In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26. For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

(All quotations from the Scriptures are from the NASB, 1995)

BroRog
Apr 2nd 2010, 05:21 PM
The first scriptures tells us that when we do the works of law of liberty we shall be blessed/justified. The second telss us we shall not be justified by doing the works of the law, even to say that those who do so are fallen from grace.

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without The deeds of The law.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

FirstfruitsFirst off, try giving up on the KJV. Those of us in this century are not well versed in King James English, which is like a second langauge to many of us. I was looking at James' letter this morning to refresh my understanding. But when I read your post, I could barely recognize the verse you cited from James.

James is trying to say, "if a man reflects deeply on the scriptures, thinking intently and at length about them, and if he doesn't forget what he read but those scriptures effect his behavor, then this man will be blessed in what he does." He calls the Mosaic Law, a "perfect Law". The Mosaic Law becomes "perfect" only when it fulfills it's ultimate purpose, which is to instruct those who read it. Again, the law reaches it's intended goal, (its "perfection" if you will) only when a man (or woman) reflects deeply on the scriptures such that the scriptures make a dramatic impact on what he thinks and how he acts. The Law is a law of liberty, only to those who seek the truth about themselves, in the same way that Jesus says the truth will set you free. Those who allowed the Law to act as a commentary on their life, the Law became a means of freedom. The man who didn't allow the law to critically examine his life, to inform his human nature and condition, to that man the law became a slave master. James finds justification within the context of a moral law for the man (or woman) who meditates on the law, allows the law to critique his life, and finds freedom in his reaction to it.

In Romans 3:28, Paul isn't saying that a man can't find justification within a Jewish context. He is saying that a man can also find justifcation in other contexts. The Jews can find justification from within a Jewish context, but a Gentile can find justification outside of the Jewish religion and culture. Since Jewish religious practice doesn't bring justification, then Jewish religious practice can't be a prerequisite to finding justification. In Galatians, Paul argues that since a man is seeking justifictation on the basis of his sucessful religious observance, he has no use for another means to justification, i.e. belief in Jesus Christ.

Jemand
Apr 2nd 2010, 05:58 PM
James is trying to say, "if a man reflects deeply on the scriptures, thinking intently and at length about them, and if he doesn't forget what he read but those scriptures effect his behavor, then this man will be blessed in what he does." He calls the Mosaic Law, a "perfect Law". The Mosaic Law becomes "perfect" only when it fulfills it's ultimate purpose, which is to instruct those who read it. Again, the law reaches it's intended goal, (its "perfection" if you will) only when a man (or woman) reflects deeply on the scriptures such that the scriptures make a dramatic impact on what he thinks and how he acts. The Law is a law of liberty, only to those who seek the truth about themselves, in the same way that Jesus says the truth will set you free. Those who allowed the Law to act as a commentary on their life, the Law became a means of freedom. The man who didn't allow the law to critically examine his life, to inform his human nature and condition, to that man the law became a slave master. James finds justification within the context of a moral law for the man (or woman) who meditates on the law, allows the law to critique his life, and finds freedom in his reaction to it.

In Romans 3:28, Paul isn't saying that a man can't find justification within a Jewish context. He is saying that a man can also find justifcation in other contexts. The Jews can find justification from within a Jewish context, but a Gentile can find justification outside of the Jewish religion and culture. Since Jewish religious practice doesn't bring justification, then Jewish religious practice can't be a prerequisite to finding justification. In Galatians, Paul argues that since a man is seeking justifictation on the basis of his sucessful religious observance, he has no use for another means to justification, i.e. belief in Jesus Christ.

I believe that James was a Jewish Christian rather than an unregenerate Jew and that he thought and wrote of the Law as a Jewish Christian. In the mind of first century Jewish Christians, Christ was the giver of a new law that superseded the Mosaic Law. We find more than 50 examples of this in Matthew’s Gospel alone where Christ introduces His new law with the words, “I say to you.” No first century Jewish Christian would have referred to the Mosaic Law as the “perfect law, the law of liberty.”

Beckrl
Apr 2nd 2010, 07:06 PM
With the underestanding of what Jesus has commanded, how do we fulfil the law of liberty?

Firstfruits

I'm not to sure of your question , but would guess "Love" fulfills all. 1 John 2:3-11, Romans 13:10

notuptome
Apr 2nd 2010, 08:38 PM
Romans 10:3 does not say that Christ's righteousness is mputed to anyone. There is no Scripture that says Christ's righteousness is imputed. That is a reformed doctrine.

What is the rightouesness of God?
That is what 2 Cor 5:21 states.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Sirus
Apr 3rd 2010, 12:09 AM
First off, try giving up on the KJV. Those of us in this century are not well versed in King James English, which is like a second langauge to many of us. I was looking at James' letter this morning to refresh my understanding. But when I read your post, I could barely recognize the verse you cited from James. Very easy to read. So much so that children understand it. Become a child.

Sirus
Apr 3rd 2010, 04:22 AM
The good works that God will remember are those at the end of Matthew 25.There is no knowledge of Christ in those works. They are not the result of faith in Christ. God will remember those works done by those here when He returns. Then shall the kingdom of heaven (earth) be like......

Sirus
Apr 3rd 2010, 04:24 AM
Agreed, if Grace prduced righteous behavior, then all men would be righteous since,


Titus 2:11-12 ( KJV )
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

However, we see that Paul had a different understanding, that Grace taught men how to live but didn't make them live that way.Not true. All men do not experience Grace.

BroRog
Apr 3rd 2010, 04:49 AM
Very easy to read. So much so that children understand it. Become a child.

Sigh . . . .

Sirus
Apr 3rd 2010, 05:58 AM
Sigh . . . .That was my initial response, but I thought it best to actually say something intelligible. Must be why I can understand the KJV, even though I am "in this century" and was "not well versed in King James English". How do you say
"Those of us in this century are not well versed in King James English"?

Firstfruits
Apr 3rd 2010, 02:24 PM
First off, try giving up on the KJV. Those of us in this century are not well versed in King James English, which is like a second langauge to many of us. I was looking at James' letter this morning to refresh my understanding. But when I read your post, I could barely recognize the verse you cited from James.

James is trying to say, "if a man reflects deeply on the scriptures, thinking intently and at length about them, and if he doesn't forget what he read but those scriptures effect his behavor, then this man will be blessed in what he does." He calls the Mosaic Law, a "perfect Law". The Mosaic Law becomes "perfect" only when it fulfills it's ultimate purpose, which is to instruct those who read it. Again, the law reaches it's intended goal, (its "perfection" if you will) only when a man (or woman) reflects deeply on the scriptures such that the scriptures make a dramatic impact on what he thinks and how he acts. The Law is a law of liberty, only to those who seek the truth about themselves, in the same way that Jesus says the truth will set you free. Those who allowed the Law to act as a commentary on their life, the Law became a means of freedom. The man who didn't allow the law to critically examine his life, to inform his human nature and condition, to that man the law became a slave master. James finds justification within the context of a moral law for the man (or woman) who meditates on the law, allows the law to critique his life, and finds freedom in his reaction to it.

In Romans 3:28, Paul isn't saying that a man can't find justification within a Jewish context. He is saying that a man can also find justifcation in other contexts. The Jews can find justification from within a Jewish context, but a Gentile can find justification outside of the Jewish religion and culture. Since Jewish religious practice doesn't bring justification, then Jewish religious practice can't be a prerequisite to finding justification. In Galatians, Paul argues that since a man is seeking justifictation on the basis of his sucessful religious observance, he has no use for another means to justification, i.e. belief in Jesus Christ.

How does the translation you have used take the law of Christ to love one another to be the law of Moses?

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Firstfruits

Jemand
Apr 3rd 2010, 07:43 PM
Re: The KJV,


Very easy to read. So much so that children understand it.

These are not true statements. For example, how many children know the difference in meaning between an hungred (found in the New Testament of the KJV in nine places) and hungry? For that matter, do you know the difference in meaning between an hungred and hungry? The difference in meaning is real (an hungred is neither syntactically nor semantically equivalent to the adjective hungry) and important, but do you know what it is? The morpheme an in this usage is clearly not the English indefinite article an, so what is it and what does it mean? What part of speech is the word hungred in this usage? Don’t bother to ask your child’s English teacher or even a professor of English in a university because very few teachers of English know the answers to these questions.

Sirus
Apr 3rd 2010, 08:41 PM
This is nonsense. A few instances that cause us to learn is not an excuse to discard a trans or falsely claim we cannot understand it. That's foolishness and outright laziness. Your example doesn't matter and is equally ridiculous - does not affect doctrine.

Firstfruits
Apr 3rd 2010, 08:58 PM
Not true. All men do not experience Grace.

Is grace not according to Gods mercy?

Firstfruits

Sirus
Apr 3rd 2010, 09:58 PM
What does that have to do with all men not experiencing the power of God -gospel?

losthorizon
Apr 4th 2010, 02:29 AM
He calls the Mosaic Law, a "perfect Law". The Mosaic Law becomes "perfect" only when it fulfills it's ultimate purpose, which is to instruct those who read it.

Actually Rog – the “perfect law of liberty” referred to by James is the gospel of Christ which sets men free through the blood of Christ - the Testator of the New Testament. It is not the Law of Moses – the Law of Moses was never perfect - “the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.”
Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.For the record - the KJV is still an excellent version...among many others.

Firstfruits
Apr 4th 2010, 10:36 AM
What does that have to do with all men not experiencing the power of God -gospel?

Because not all men accept the free gift from God.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Apr 4th 2010, 10:39 AM
Actually Rog – the “perfect law of liberty” referred to by James is the gospel of Christ which sets men free through the blood of Christ - the Testator of the New Testament. It is not the Law of Moses – the Law of Moses was never perfect - “the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.”
Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.For the record - the KJV is still an excellent version...among many others.

Amen!

God bless you.

Firstfruits

Sirus
Apr 4th 2010, 03:05 PM
Because not all men accept the free gift from God.

FirstfruitsThat what I am saying.

BroRog
Apr 4th 2010, 05:42 PM
Actually Rog – the “perfect law of liberty” referred to by James is the gospel of Christ which sets men free through the blood of Christ - the Testator of the New Testament. It is not the Law of Moses – the Law of Moses was never perfect - “the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.”
Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.For the record - the KJV is still an excellent version...among many others.The fact that the Law of Moses brought death is the reason why it was perfect. I don't agree that James was talking about the gospel as the perfect law of liberty. If that is what he meant he would have said something about the gospel in that context. Instead, he talks about the royal law of loving our neighbor.

losthorizon
Apr 4th 2010, 10:06 PM
The fact that the Law of Moses brought death is the reason why it was perfect.


Really? Death doesn't appear to be perfection. Can you expand your thought here? If it was perfect why was it annulled and nailed to the cross of Christ?


I don't agree that James was talking about the gospel as the perfect law of liberty. If that is what he meant he would have said something about the gospel in that context.

Can you expand your thought here - how can the the letter that "killeth" be the perfect law? Sorry Rog but the perfect law of liberty that brings salvation is the gospel of Christ - the liberty with which Christ has made us free.

BroRog
Apr 5th 2010, 01:46 AM
Really? Death doesn't appear to be perfection. Can you expand your thought here? If it was perfect why was it annulled and nailed to the cross of Christ? It wasn't my idea. Paul makes the point in Romans chapters 3 and 7, and Galatians 3 and 4. In the New Testament, "perfect" refers to the suitablity of a thing for the purpose it was intended to perform. According to Paul, the law was suited to God's intented purpose, which was to bring a Jew to Christ.

Sirus
Apr 5th 2010, 01:56 AM
Really? Death doesn't appear to be perfection. Can you expand your thought here? If it was perfect why was it annulled and nailed to the cross of Christ? Depends. Perfect has two meanings. One certainly applies. It's the reason people are so confused and wrongfully say creation and man were perfect (absolute completeness) before sin. God said very good for His will and purpose not absolutely complete. Same applies here. The law was very good for His will and purpose but it was not absolutely complete because it was weak through the flesh. That's why Christ had to come and crucify flesh and condemn sin in flesh. So that by faith in what Christ did for us and to us (death - burial - resurrection) we could establish (hold up) the law and fulfill the righteousness in the law.

losthorizon
Apr 5th 2010, 01:59 AM
It wasn't my idea. Paul makes the point in Romans chapters 3 and 7, and Galatians 3 and 4. In the New Testament, "perfect" refers to the suitablity of a thing for the purpose it was intended to perform. According to Paul, the law was suited to God's intented purpose, which was to bring a Jew to Christ.
You didn't explain this statement - "the Law of Moses brought death is the reason why it was perfect." How does death bring perfection?

losthorizon
Apr 5th 2010, 02:02 AM
Depends. Perfect has two meanings. One certainly applies. It's the reason people are so confused and wrongfully say creation and man were perfect (absolute completeness) before sin. God said very good for His will and purpose not absolutely complete. Same applies here. The law was very good for His will and purpose but it was not absolutely complete because it was weak through the flesh. That's why Christ had to come and crucify flesh and condemn sin in flesh. So that by faith in what Christ did for us and to us (death - burial - resurrection) we could establish (hold up) the law and fulfill the righteousness in the law.
Do you share Rog's understanding that the “perfect law of liberty” is a reference to the Law of Moses?

kay-gee
Apr 5th 2010, 02:50 AM
Do you share Rog's understanding that the “perfect law of liberty” is a reference to the Law of Moses?

Even though many claim "Christ", they are unable to loose the shackles of Old Testament.

all the best...

Sirus
Apr 5th 2010, 03:15 AM
Do you share Rog's understanding that the “perfect law of liberty” is a reference to the Law of Moses?No I do not........

Firstfruits
Apr 5th 2010, 10:33 AM
The fact that the Law of Moses brought death is the reason why it was perfect. I don't agree that James was talking about the gospel as the perfect law of liberty. If that is what he meant he would have said something about the gospel in that context. Instead, he talks about the royal law of loving our neighbor.

We are ministers of the Spirit, not ministers of the law of Moses.

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2 Cor 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2 Cor 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.


The Holy Spirit reminds us of the teachings of Jesus not the teachings of the law.

Jn 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Firstfruits

BroRog
Apr 5th 2010, 03:39 PM
You didn't explain this statement - "the Law of Moses brought death is the reason why it was perfect." How does death bring perfection?

Huh? I said the Law was perfect. I didn't say death brought perfection. I don't know what you think this line of investigation might accomplish. All we need to do is look at the passage in James and see what James meant by "the Law of Liberty." If you would like to actually look at what James has to say, I'd be willing to do that.

BroRog
Apr 5th 2010, 03:41 PM
We are ministers of the Spirit, not ministers of the law of Moses.Did I say we were ministers of the Law of Moses? Are we trying to understand what James said or are we simply going to throw verses on the wall to see which one's stick?

Firstfruits
Apr 5th 2010, 03:55 PM
Did I say we were ministers of the Law of Moses? Are we trying to understand what James said or are we simply going to throw verses on the wall to see which one's stick?

The law of liberty that James spoke of is not the law of Moses, the law of librty is the law of Christ.

"Love one another"

Firstfruits

BroRog
Apr 5th 2010, 04:06 PM
The law of liberty that James spoke of is not the law of Moses, the law of librty is the law of Christ.

"Love one another"

FirstfruitsAre you saying that "love one another" isn't in the Law of Moses? Of course it is.

You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord. Leviticus 19:18

Firstfruits
Apr 5th 2010, 04:13 PM
Are you saying that "love one another" isn't in the Law of Moses? Of course it is.

You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord. Leviticus 19:18

I notice you said "in the law of Moses" but doing one commandment in the law of Moses does not fulfil the law of Moses, to offend in even one point makes us guilty of all the law of Moses.

Firstfruits

JLM Lives
Apr 5th 2010, 05:24 PM
I believe the answer is simple. not hard at all. First we believe and trust Jesus in ALL things. very simple to do. Second we get out of the way and allow The Holy Spirit to lead us unto all rightouness. not our rightouness the rightouness of Jesus
Christ. therefore the works are the works of Jesus Christ. It will be natural. because it is not I but Christ that worketh thru me. Amen?

Firstfruits
Apr 5th 2010, 08:38 PM
I believe the answer is simple. not hard at all. First we believe and trust Jesus in ALL things. very simple to do. Second we get out of the way and allow The Holy Spirit to lead us unto all rightouness. not our rightouness the rightouness of Jesus
Christ. therefore the works are the works of Jesus Christ. It will be natural. because it is not I but Christ that worketh thru me. Amen?

What then has Jesus commanded us to do to show that we belong to him?

Firstfruits