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Redeemed by Grace
Apr 9th 2010, 03:16 PM
Part of my trilogy of poll questions today - the 1st being Does God know our Thoughts. the 2nd Does Satan know our Thoughts.... the next one and I might say be a bit more interesting poll -- If God knows our thoughts, then does God also bring influence to our thoughts.

For the purpose of keeping the poll simple, the same three responses are the choices... yes, no, or I don't know.

Beckrl
Apr 9th 2010, 03:20 PM
Can you defind influence?

Redeemed by Grace
Apr 9th 2010, 03:31 PM
Can you defind influence?

How about anything like, given, persuaded, changed one's mind/heart... or by scripture something like....

Matthew 16:13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" 14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets." 15 He *said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

theBelovedDisciple
Apr 9th 2010, 03:31 PM
Hi RBG...

good post...

As far as God 'knowing' our thoughts and influencing them.... I would say 'yes'...

as David says... 'thou desirest Truth in that 'inward part'.. that innner man.. where our 'thoughts, heart intent and spirit come together... and in that 'inward part'... thou shalt make me to 'know wisdom'..

I look back the Last Supper.. when Jesus 'knew' who would betray Him.. and He spoke to Judas...

what you are going to to, thou doest quickly....

God 'knew' what Judas was up to.. being influenced and possessed by the devil himself...

I believe He not only was talking to Judas.. but He was speaking to Satan directly.... as satan moved Judas and had put into Judas heart to betray Jesus...

we live in a supernatural playing field.. this is the 'world' as it is...

as far as Satan knowing a Born Again Chrisitans thoughts?

he knows the weakness of a Geunine Chrisitan.. because he once controlled and manipulated that person prior to Jesus SAving them.... that Inward Part... I don't believe satan 'knows' directly... but one must be careful as to what one is thinking and possessing. and revealing them......especially when it comes to the 'things of God'.. that are divinely inspired and the 'spriitual man' percieves them...

its like throwing your pearls before swine.. want to avoid that... because others will turn and rend you for them..because they do not understand or percieve the spiritual things of God as they are revealed thru the Holy Ghost...

if one presents his/her thoughts outwardly.. either thru actions or words.. then satan knows right well what your up to.. he knows...

like I said, we live in a supernatural playing field....our words and actions mean alot.... and they usually are a direct result of our thought process... whether fleshly inspired or Divinely Inspired by God Himself..

Nomad
Apr 10th 2010, 01:45 PM
The Scriptures gives abundant evidence that God can and does influence our thoughts. Consider the following passages:

Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Exo 4:21 And the LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.

Exo 11:2 Speak now in the hearing of the people, that they ask, every man of his neighbor and every woman of her neighbor, for silver and gold jewelry."
Exo 11:3 And the LORD gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians. Moreover, the man Moses was very great in the land of Egypt, in the sight of Pharaoh's servants and in the sight of the people.

Deu 2:30 But Sihon the king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him, for the LORD your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, that he might give him into your hand, as he is this day.

Jos 11:20 For it was the LORD's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be devoted to destruction and should receive no mercy but be destroyed, just as the LORD commanded Moses.

Psa 105:23 Then Israel came to Egypt; Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham.
Psa 105:24 And the LORD made his people very fruitful and made them stronger than their foes.
Psa 105:25 He turned their hearts to hate his people, to deal craftily with his servants.

Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

Isa 63:17 O LORD, why do you make us wander from your ways and harden our heart, so that we fear you not? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes of your heritage.

2Th 2:11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false...

crawfish
Apr 10th 2010, 01:50 PM
God told me to vote "no". ;)

notuptome
Apr 10th 2010, 02:08 PM
God influences our thoughts when we read and cogitate upon His word. Ps 119 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his ways? By taking heed according to thy word...Thy word have I hidden in my heart that I might not sin against thee. 9 & 11

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Bandit
Apr 10th 2010, 08:12 PM
I voted "yes", but I believe that most often we must be receptive to His influence; in other words, He usually does not force His will upon people.

th1bill
Apr 10th 2010, 09:34 PM
Of course I voted yes.
If we read the Christian Manifesto, the letter to the Romans, the picture is very clear. In Romans 1:19 we learn that even those that deny Him are, indeed, influenced by Him.

When you come right down to it the servant of God, the Christian, just by taking the name, is influenced by by God. Inversely, so is the Atheist. The very moment he or she denies God they admit having been influenced by God. When we write the date on a letter, that date is suffixed with ad., all dates before the zero day are counted back from Christ/God. It is not even possible to live without the influence of God. Without Him there is no earth to live on, no air to breath, no dirt to even create man with. That we live is the influence of God.

ThyWordIsTruth
Apr 12th 2010, 03:46 AM
I voted "yes." I've "seen" this happen a number of times, and although experience is no standard for truth, I'd like to share it.

There's been 2 occassions now in recent times where I've been talking to friends who're unsaved. As we were conversing I was silently praying for the Lord to open a way for me to share the Gospel with them. Out of nowhere they'd start to open up and talk about some problems they were having, very personal stuff which they normally won't talk about, and the way will be open for me to share the Gospel with them. And Scripture also affirms that God does influence our thoughts.

The Mighty Sword
Apr 12th 2010, 08:02 AM
He influenced Saul/Paul.

Redeemed by Grace
Apr 13th 2010, 03:42 PM
I'm a bit suprise at the overwelming response thus far being that God can influence one's thoughts, for I was sure that some would say not so based on 'free will'... :saint:

ThyWordIsTruth
Apr 13th 2010, 03:59 PM
I'm a bit suprise at the overwelming response thus far being that God can influence one's thoughts, for I was sure that some would say not so based on 'free will'... :saint:

Well, being able to "influence" thoughts is not the same as God programming someone to think a certain way with no choice to act any other way. At the end of the day, someone can influence you but the final decision is still up to you.

If this were not true, then praying for someone to come to saving faith or for situations to change based on people's behaviours changing would be pointless don't you think?

Redeemed by Grace
Apr 13th 2010, 04:44 PM
Well, being able to "influence" thoughts is not the same as God programming someone to think a certain way with no choice to act any other way. At the end of the day, someone can influence you but the final decision is still up to you.

If this were not true, then praying for someone to come to saving faith or for situations to change based on people's behaviours changing would be pointless don't you think?

Howdy...

If you would, please define what you mean by influence then, so as we are all together... I used Matthew 16:13, wheras God gave Peter both words and understanding per Jesus' words

Bandit
Apr 13th 2010, 08:37 PM
Howdy...

If you would, please define what you mean by influence then, so as we are all together... I used Matthew 16:13, wheras God gave Peter both words and understanding per Jesus' words


"Influence" is not "control". Influence is more of a prompting (suggesting) in some way for a desired result or decision. At least in the way we have come to use the term, to say one has influence over another means that one's input and suggestions about a situation carry a certain amount of weight (and much more so than most other people). Most of us do not think of "influence" as describing "robot" like control. Influence means that we weigh a certain source of information greater than another, but in the end we still decide what to believe or how to act.

As far as Matthew 16:13-17, I would suggest that Peter was not a robot. Both the Spirit and the Father (and even Jesus' own words and actions) were indicating that Jesus was the Christ, and Peter analyzed that input and he accepted what they were indicating about Jesus. They were not controlling Peter like some puppet on a string.

ThyWordIsTruth
Apr 14th 2010, 01:50 AM
Howdy...

If you would, please define what you mean by influence then, so as we are all together... I used Matthew 16:13, wheras God gave Peter both words and understanding per Jesus' words

I mean influence as in a friend influencing you to take a smoke and passing you a cigarette, or influencing you to take a joint and telling you that you're a sissy if you are too scared to try it. Then exerting peer pressure on you. This is influence. You still have a choice to say no, get up and walk away or succumb.

It is different from say that same friend overpowering you physically and tying you up hand and foot and stuffing the joint into your mouth, duct-taping it there and then lighting it and forcing you to smoke it.

Redeemed by Grace
Apr 14th 2010, 03:09 PM
I mean influence as in a friend influencing you to take a smoke and passing you a cigarette, or influencing you to take a joint and telling you that you're a sissy if you are too scared to try it. Then exerting peer pressure on you. This is influence. You still have a choice to say no, get up and walk away or succumb.

It is different from say that same friend overpowering you physically and tying you up hand and foot and stuffing the joint into your mouth, duct-taping it there and then lighting it and forcing you to smoke it.

OK then... so how does that happen then? How does God influence you?

Bandit
Apr 14th 2010, 09:18 PM
OK then... so how does that happen then? How does God influence you?

God influences me through His word. The more I read and meditate upon it, the more both He and I have to work with in various situations. So as I find myself in different situations, and as I have meditated upon His word, His Spirit has something within me to work with, but for the most part only to the extent that I have applied myself. Those who refuse to read God's word don't leave very much in their heart for Him to work with.

Redeemed by Grace
Apr 15th 2010, 02:49 AM
God influences me through His word. The more I read and meditate upon it, the more both He and I have to work with in various situations. So as I find myself in different situations, and as I have meditated upon His word, His Spirit has something within me to work with, but for the most part only to the extent that I have applied myself. Those who refuse to read God's word don't leave very much in their heart for Him to work with.

Hi Bandit,

I hear what you are saying, yet I don't think I see what you are saying, per se. Can you describe or clarify this part that you wrote, "...the more both He and I have to work with in various situations." How then does He work?

Not a trick question, but a tough one indeed, for we declare we do all the thinking, yet we somehow say that He does "something" as well, for which is what I wanted to see within the poll... "Does God influence our thoughts?"

And for the record, I voted YES.

ThyWordIsTruth
Apr 15th 2010, 06:41 AM
OK then... so how does that happen then? How does God influence you?

I'm not God. I could explain it from experience, but experience can be subjectively interpreted and I'd rather not.
Has God chosen to reveal it in Scripture? If not it'll be pure speculation and I'd rather not go there. One way in which Scripture tells us how God influences us is through his written word, the Bible.

Firstfruits
Apr 15th 2010, 10:44 AM
Through the Holy Spirit God reminds us of the words/teachings of Christ.

Jn 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Firstfruits

Bandit
Apr 15th 2010, 11:15 AM
Hi Bandit,

I hear what you are saying, yet I don't think I see what you are saying, per se. Can you describe or clarify this part that you wrote, "...the more both He and I have to work with in various situations." How then does He work?

Not a trick question, but a tough one indeed, for we declare we do all the thinking, yet we somehow say that He does "something" as well, for which is what I wanted to see within the poll... "Does God influence our thoughts?"

And for the record, I voted YES.


For me, often as I find myself in various situations, I find various scriptures coming to mind. Now I believe that very often the Holy Spirit is bringing these to the forefront of my mind to prompt me as how to best "navigate" the situation, but if I have not read and meditated on His word, then there is little scripture for Him to draw upon from my memory. As Psalm 119:105 says, "Your word is a lamp to my feet, a light to my path." And do please read all the surrounding section - like verses 97-112. If we do not read and meditate on His word, then would we not be in some way like the 5 foolish virgins in Matthew 25? They neglected the oil for their lamp, so when the time came they had no light and were not prepared for the situation when it occured. So I see that God will influence us through His word, but only if we commit ourselves to that word.

Now I know this is not the only form of influence, but I think this is a very major method of influence for the people of God - if we will avail ourselves to it.

Realist1981
Apr 19th 2010, 07:46 AM
Of coarse God controls our thoughts but only when we submit to his will. That's what being led by the Holy Spirit really means. As long as you submit yourself to the Holy Spirit
and follow his course you will not sin. However, we have free will and can seperate ourself from God's influence into the other's influence

This is why Paul says to "Capture every thought"
Thinking leads to action. And that action will either be for the glory of God or otherwise.

Gillian
Apr 19th 2010, 11:11 AM
true

God know our thoughts afar, but not forced, or to great extent as our impression may be. devil can tempt us away from God and devil isnt God fault or\any evil influnce. but evil are used by God in many times turn out a blessing despite the evil (satan) intention.

Redeemed by Grace
Apr 20th 2010, 12:59 PM
Of coarse God controls our thoughts but only when we submit to his will. That's what being led by the Holy Spirit really means. As long as you submit yourself to the Holy Spirit
and follow his course you will not sin. However, we have free will and can seperate ourself from God's influence into the other's influence

This is why Paul says to "Capture every thought"
Thinking leads to action. And that action will either be for the glory of God or otherwise.


true

God know our thoughts afar, but not forced, or to great extent as our impression may be. devil can tempt us away from God and devil isnt God fault or\any evil influnce. but evil are used by God in many times turn out a blessing despite the evil (satan) intention.

Hello Real and Gil,

Seeing that you both replied in the same fashion I thought I'd ask you both the same question.... To the part underlined, you both offered a 'qualification' that limits God's knowing your thoughts. Can either of you show scripture where this qualification is true?


For does not God 'know' the thoughts of all peoples, and would He not also offer influence to all folks, if not just to those for whom He saves?

Blessings...