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Beckrl
Apr 11th 2010, 12:12 AM
What of the folded napkin that was placed apart from the linen clothes? I notice in John's account he tries to give information and details in all the while speaks of himself as the other disciple.

In given the details of the napkin being folded and separate from the linen clothes.
This may or may not apply what to you thing? In some translation it would be "wrapped " and others "rolled up" rather than folded. How do you see that translation?


"In order to understand the significance of the folded napkin, you have to understand a little bit about Hebrew tradition of that day. The folded napkin had to do w/ the Master and Servant, and every Jewish boy knew this tradition. When the servant set the dinner table for the master, he made sure that it was exactly the way the master wanted it. The table was furnished perfectly, and then the servant would wait, just out of sight, until the master had finished eating, and the servant would not dare touch that table, until the master was finished.

Now if the master had finished eating, he would rise from the table, wipe his fingers, his mouth, and clean his beard, and would wad up that napkin and toss it onto the table. The servant would then know to clear the table. For in those days, the wadded napkin meant, "I'm done".

But if the master got up from the table, and folded his napkin, and laid it beside his plate, the servant would not dare touch the table, because the servant knew that the folded napkin meant, "I'm not finished yet." The folded napkin meant, "I'm coming back!"

markedward
Apr 11th 2010, 03:33 PM
The KJV gives the word as "napkin", but the original Greek word runs more along the lines of "towel" (it comes from the word for "sweat"; this implies that the cloth being referred to was similar to a towel used to wipe away sweat from one's face). Likewise, the KJV says it was "folded", but the Greek word means more like "twisted". Put in simple English, Jesus' head was wrapped in a "sweat-towel" (i.e. a face-cloth), and when he was resurrected, it was found twisted up off to the side.

The explanation given is too speculative. It assumes that every Master who ate a formal meal had the propensity for folding their napkin whenever they got up from eating. Claiming that this was a common custom for every Master at the time of Jesus is just too speculative to believe. Jesus wasn't eating dinner, either.

Oh, and the "custom" it describes isn't supported by historical documents. As far as scholarly research goes, this "custom" is fictional.

BroRog
Apr 11th 2010, 04:47 PM
I just don't see the connection between murder and dinner.

Beckrl
Apr 11th 2010, 05:50 PM
I tend to agree althought at first read it sounds good, but when I searched the translations it lead me away come that assumption. Just wnated to verify it with some of you. Some I guess would say that by Jesus folding the napkin it told the disciples that the Master would be coming back, but even in John's account he makes the statement that they as of yet knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead, and then they went back again to their own home. So if that where the cast that Jesus folded it for that purpose of his disiciples to know that he has raisen and would come again would be lost because they didn't yet know of that scripture. You would think they knew, but it took Mary to go tell them.

ThyWordIsTruth
Apr 12th 2010, 04:01 AM
I tend to agree that this is so speculative that it'll be dangerous to form any kind of doctrine based on it. I don't know where this idea originated because i heard someone telling me the very same thing recently.

First, Jesus was folding his burial clothes and wrappings, not a napkin.
Second, there is just no customary crossover between one kind of cloth (burial cloth) with another (dining napkin).
Thirdly if Jesus wanted to teach something important enough to us that he wants us to take notice of, he'd have told his disciples clearly instead of leaving vague symbolisms.
Lastly, even if it were true, it'll be unimportant and irrelevant anyway because Jesus already clearly told us that he'd be coming back. His words surely bear more weight than any vague symbolism does (assuming of course that it were true in the first place).

I personally think these doctrines are the product of an over-imaginative mind.

SIG
Apr 12th 2010, 04:51 AM
I researched this one recently, after reading an email...it is utterly false. There is NO such Jewish tradition, the cloth was NOT a napkin (closer to a sweatband), etc, etc.

I am always dismayed at these stories, which, as far as I can see, are:

1.Circulated by well-meaning but misguided believers, who of course undermine their credibility with mistruth

or

2. Circulated by non-believers to help discredit believers (who probably need no help with that one)...

At any rate, in researching this, I discovered the word "glurge"....

ThyWordIsTruth
Apr 12th 2010, 05:26 AM
I researched this one recently, after reading an email...it is utterly false. There is NO such Jewish tradition, the cloth was NOT a napkin (closer to a sweatband), etc, etc.

I am always dismayed at these stories, which, as far as I can see, are:

1.Circulated by well-meaning but misguided believers, who of course undermine their credibility with mistruth

or

2. Circulated by non-believers to help discredit believers (who probably need no help with that one)...

At any rate, in researching this, I discovered the word "glurge"....

SIG,
Do you have any links to sites which debunk this?

Beckrl
Apr 12th 2010, 09:17 PM
Well, I was watching an program on tv and this minister and group was in the olive garden in Jerusalem, He told of this but did say it was his belief. Whether he started it are was just relating a possible reason for the folded napkin. Nothing to back it up!

I then googled it and found alot of hits for it, but doing the research it don't pan out. I just was curious to see how you would see it. Thanks.

SIG
Apr 14th 2010, 10:47 PM
ThyWordIsTruth--A Google search will lead you to many; here is one:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/f/folded-napkin.htm

ThyWordIsTruth
Apr 15th 2010, 06:44 AM
thank you
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

RevLogos
Apr 17th 2010, 03:15 AM
Just curious but isn't a separate cloth for the face problematic for those who believe the "Shroud of Turin" is Jesus' burial cloth?