PDA

View Full Version : EVERYTHING in the New Covenant is WAY superior to the Old Covenant!



inn
Apr 12th 2010, 02:56 PM
Any thoughts, agreements, or disagreements. Let's get into some rejoicing because of what God has done for us, amazing that He has given so much life, what are we doing with it?

Kahtar
Apr 12th 2010, 03:08 PM
Yes. We now have a better Sacrifice. We still have the sacrifice, and trust in that Sacrifice, which was done one time for all.
We have a better high Priest, one who does not have to go in every year, nor sacrifice for himself first, but One Who entered in one time, and now sits on the right hand of the father.
We now have better offerings than the smoke of burning incense. We have the praises of the Father from our own lips.
We have a better temple, not one made with hands, but WE are now the temple, and the Glory of the Father is seating on the mercy seat of our hearts.
We have a better law, not one written on stone tablets, but the selfsame law written upon the tablets of our hearts.
I could go on for an hour.....

Firstfruits
Apr 12th 2010, 03:27 PM
Yes. We now have a better Sacrifice. We still have the sacrifice, and trust in that Sacrifice, which was done one time for all.
We have a better high Priest, one who does not have to go in every year, nor sacrifice for himself first, but One Who entered in one time, and now sits on the right hand of the father.
We now have better offerings than the smoke of burning incense. We have the praises of the Father from our own lips.
We have a better temple, not one made with hands, but WE are now the temple, and the Glory of the Father is seating on the mercy seat of our hearts.
We have a better law, not one written on stone tablets, but the selfsame law written upon the tablets of our hearts.
I could go on for an hour.....

Does that mean that we are to teach according to the new covenant and not the old covenant, if so, what is the new covenant?

Firstfruits

-SEEKING-
Apr 12th 2010, 03:38 PM
Does that mean that we are to teach according to the new covenant and not the old covenant, if so, what is the new covenant?

Firstfruits

Interesting question. What are your thoughts?

Firstfruits
Apr 12th 2010, 03:46 PM
Interesting question. What are your thoughts?

According to the following the old covenant is the tables of the covenant, and the new has replaced the old.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

But what is the difference between the old and the new?

Firstfruits

inn
Apr 12th 2010, 03:46 PM
Having said all that in post 1, I have a few questions. The New Covenant(N.C.) means the law is written on our hearts. I believe this is so we know the complete difference between the the 2 covenants, grace and law, and perhaps a few other lists, but I'd like to go deeper! Why do you beleiev the law is written on our hearts?
Rejoicing

Firstfruits
Apr 12th 2010, 03:51 PM
Having said all that in post 1, I have a few questions. The New Covenant(N.C.) means the law is written on our hearts. I believe this is so we know the complete difference between the the 2 covenants, grace and law, and perhaps a few other lists, but I'd like to go deeper! Why do you beleiev the law is written on our hearts?
Rejoicing

Is it the same law written in our heart with the understanding that we cannot be justified by it.

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Firstfruits

-SEEKING-
Apr 12th 2010, 04:11 PM
But what is the difference between the old and the new?

Firstfruits

Simply stated the OT was setup to bring all to the realization that without Jesus, they were totally helpess. In a nutshell.

markedward
Apr 12th 2010, 04:39 PM
With the inclusion of the book of Hebrews in the Bible, I'm so perplexed that there are Christians who believe God will return us to the Old Covenant during a future thousand-year period. Why in the world would God take us back to the Old Covenant when he so clearly told us that it was "obsolete" and only a "shadow" of Jesus?

inn
Apr 12th 2010, 09:47 PM
With the inclusion of the book of Hebrews in the Bible, I'm so perplexed that there are Christians who believe God will return us to the Old Covenant during a future thousand-year period. Why in the world would God take us back to the Old Covenant when he so clearly told us that it was "obsolete" and only a "shadow" of Jesus?

Wow, this is LIVING TRUTH, I like it all, and to add to this good choc nut sunday, not only Hebrews but much more of the pages of the New Testament, woooooo, time to celebrate His love for us!!!!

BruceG
Apr 13th 2010, 12:20 AM
According to the following the old covenant is the tables of the covenant, and the new has replaced the old.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

But what is the difference between the old and the new?

Firstfruits

In the end, the basic differences are the source of the power. One is our self effort, one is the power of the indwelling spirit.

The old covenant of obedience to the Law of commandments- This covenant is powered by self effort, self control, inner strength and resolve, discipline. It is doomed to failure for none can keep the law other than Jesus. Why? We all have fallen natures. The law is summed up in "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."

The law had an attached curse. Obedience was required 100% of the time and if you broke one commandment one time, you were guilty of all. That is why it is the yoke of bondage, the ministration of death.

As well, Jesus revealed that the law also demanded heart purity in that obedience. That is why lust is the equivenalt of adultery. It is a hard task master. Who can bear its weight? None but Christ.

How important we understand this point. It was not meant to be obeyed. It was not to teach us the standards we are to live up to. Yes, we are commanded to obey, but God knew what lied in our hearts. Our pride in our own strength and ourself rule must be broken. It had one purpose. It was to be our schoolmaster to teach us that we cannot keep it. We simply do not have the strength because of a fallen nature that will always want to stray. It was given to break us, to make us fall upon Christ to do for us what we cannot do for ourselves.

The new covenant of grace thru faith-

This covenant was actually made before the law, by 400 years, as it was originally made to Abraham and his seed (Jesus Christ). The new covenant actually came into effect on the day of pentecost when the spirit, which had been with the disciples, came inside them.

The new covenant is clearly prophesied about in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36. Here God says the reason he was forced to bring in a new covenant was a) we constantly broke the old one (Jeremiah 31) and we blasphemed his name with religious pride (Ezekiel 36). Here God says that all will directly know him and not have need for a man to teach him, that our sins and iniquities he would remember no more, that He would send his Spirit to dwell in us, that he would give us new hearts, softened hearts after Him, and he would (are you ready for this?) cause us to walk in His statutes! Obedience, a requirement in the old covenant, was to be a blessing of the new! How many of us have missed this amazing promise. It is not on our shoulders any more, it is on His.

Under the new, we are no longer our workmanship, as under the old, but we are now His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. The new covenant is the easy yoke, the ministration of life, the rest of God for those who have been broken by the law and have learned to "cease from their own labors" as God did from His.

Interestingly, self control, a virtual must for the laborer under the old covenant, is now listed as a fruit of abiding in Christ under the new.

Also, concerning the promise of God to "cause us to obey", multitudes of sons and daughters have not been taught this aspect of the covenant and thus end up back under the law of commandments, with the weight of obedience back on their shoulders, thus they are back under the spirit of the old covenant, the law and it works death, not life. But God promised that there would come a day when our pride would be broken completely, and we would in contrition come to God admitting our need for a totally obedient heart. At the end of God prophesying about thsi amazing new covenant. He says this and it applies totally to us today:

"I shall yet be inquired of by the House of Israel to do it for them. I will increase them like a flock"
Ezekiel 36:37
Blessings, Bruce

Firstfruits
Apr 13th 2010, 08:59 AM
In the end, the basic differences are the source of the power. One is our self effort, one is the power of the indwelling spirit.

The old covenant of obedience to the Law of commandments- This covenant is powered by self effort, self control, inner strength and resolve, discipline. It is doomed to failure for none can keep the law other than Jesus. Why? We all have fallen natures. The law is summed up in "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."

The law had an attached curse. Obedience was required 100% of the time and if you broke one commandment one time, you were guilty of all. That is why it is the yoke of bondage, the ministration of death.

As well, Jesus revealed that the law also demanded heart purity in that obedience. That is why lust is the equivenalt of adultery. It is a hard task master. Who can bear its weight? None but Christ.

How important we understand this point. It was not meant to be obeyed. It was not to teach us the standards we are to live up to. Yes, we are commanded to obey, but God knew what lied in our hearts. Our pride in our own strength and ourself rule must be broken. It had one purpose. It was to be our schoolmaster to teach us that we cannot keep it. We simply do not have the strength because of a fallen nature that will always want to stray. It was given to break us, to make us fall upon Christ to do for us what we cannot do for ourselves.

The new covenant of grace thru faith-

This covenant was actually made before the law, by 400 years, as it was originally made to Abraham and his seed (Jesus Christ). The new covenant actually came into effect on the day of pentecost when the spirit, which had been with the disciples, came inside them.

The new covenant is clearly prophesied about in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36. Here God says the reason he was forced to bring in a new covenant was a) we constantly broke the old one (Jeremiah 31) and we blasphemed his name with religious pride (Ezekiel 36). Here God says that all will directly know him and not have need for a man to teach him, that our sins and iniquities he would remember no more, that He would send his Spirit to dwell in us, that he would give us new hearts, softened hearts after Him, and he would (are you ready for this?) cause us to walk in His statutes! Obedience, a requirement in the old covenant, was to be a blessing of the new! How many of us have missed this amazing promise. It is not on our shoulders any more, it is on His.

Under the new, we are no longer our workmanship, as under the old, but we are now His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. The new covenant is the easy yoke, the ministration of life, the rest of God for those who have been broken by the law and have learned to "cease from their own labors" as God did from His.

Interestingly, self control, a virtual must for the laborer under the old covenant, is now listed as a fruit of abiding in Christ under the new.

Also, concerning the promise of God to "cause us to obey", multitudes of sons and daughters have not been taught this aspect of the covenant and thus end up back under the law of commandments, with the weight of obedience back on their shoulders, thus they are back under the spirit of the old covenant, the law and it works death, not life. But God promised that there would come a day when our pride would be broken completely, and we would in contrition come to God admitting our need for a totally obedient heart. At the end of God prophesying about thsi amazing new covenant. He says this and it applies totally to us today:

"I shall yet be inquired of by the House of Israel to do it for them. I will increase them like a flock"
Ezekiel 36:37
Blessings, Bruce

Thanks Bruce,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

inn
Apr 15th 2010, 03:57 PM
" The new covenant actually came into effect on the day of pentecost when the spirit, which had been with the disciples, came inside them. "
Any ideas about the relationship of the N.C. and the kingdom?
Did the kingdom start before the N.C?

" Obedience, a requirement in the old covenant, was to be a blessing of the new! How many of us have missed this amazing promise. It is not on our shoulders any more, it is on His."
I have a feeling you are saying we do still need to be obedient in the N.C? Always good to make sure.
"I shall yet be inquired of by the House of Israel to do it for them. I will increase them like a flock"
Ezekiel 36:37
Why did you choose this scripture to end with?

BruceG
Apr 17th 2010, 10:38 PM
" The new covenant actually came into effect on the day of pentecost when the spirit, which had been with the disciples, came inside them. "
Any ideas about the relationship of the N.C. and the kingdom?
Did the kingdom start before the N.C?

" Obedience, a requirement in the old covenant, was to be a blessing of the new! How many of us have missed this amazing promise. It is not on our shoulders any more, it is on His."
I have a feeling you are saying we do still need to be obedient in the N.C? Always good to make sure.
"I shall yet be inquired of by the House of Israel to do it for them. I will increase them like a flock"
Ezekiel 36:37
Why did you choose this scripture to end with?

Let me see if I can help you here. Obedience is always required, under either of the covenants. The thing we must understand is, under the old covenant, no one obeyed! Why? Becasue the law came with a "curse" of sorts. It said that to fulfill it, it could not be broken one time and if it was, it was the same as breaking every commandment. Ouch! It did not point us to perfection, it demanded it, and yet gave us no power to obey the commandments. It was all about our strength, self control, discipline. But man has a fallen nature they are born with and simply cannot obey. The law awkens in us a desire to obey, but doesn't endue us with the power to do so. As a matter of fact, in Jeremiah 31, where God Himself prophesies of the coming new covenant. he said the reason there was to be a new one was because no one obeyed the old one, nor could they!

Enter the new covenant. What held us back from obeying under the old? Our fallen nature...our flesh.... this was the root of the problem. So what did our amazing God do in the new one? He made it so that when Christ died, our flesh died with Him, and when He arose from the dead, we too arose with a brand new nature, the new man. And into this new man, God sent His spirit to dwell in us, whereas before he has only been with us.

An abiding relationship was to be created, where we would become one, us and the spirit of God, and in so doing, He would cause us to obey. No, we are not made robots, nor puppets, but because the inner struggle for control has been ended with the putting off of the flesh by faith and the putting on of the new man by faith as well, the end result is that Christ's character is formed inside us and we obey because it is our nature to obey.

Now, you asked why I ended with the scripture that I chose. You are astute to pick up on that for it is important. Let me ask you a question. Do you feel for the most part that the body of Christ is experiencing this "being caused to obey" or have we in essence gone back under the law after we get forgiven? Paul said that if we return to self effort in just one area, we will end up under the entire law, and will experience what those under the old covenant did- failure.

We have all done this...every denomination....we have all thought if we had enough self control, we could become holy. Yet none are holy and to make matters worse, now unbelief has gripped us because of those failures to the point we do not even believe it is possible to defeatthe flesh, and that we MUST sin a little every day! What happened to "the glorious liberty of the children of God"? What happened to being made "free indeed"? The result is a church languishing in laodecian mediocrity, and the world pays us no attention.

God knew this would happen. All the virgins slept! But in the last days, God is waking us all up from a deep sleep and putting the desire for Him and His promises back in our hearts. The veil is being taken away and unbelief is being replaced with faith. God is getting ready to do for us exactly what He has promised, but he needs one ingredient. He needs broken hearts, hearts that admit that our religious Christianity has not made us happy, nor let us experience the rest of God, or the victory He has clearly promised us.

Brother, this is where we are at this exact moment in time. God is awakening His people and we are learning to put on our new man and walk in His strength. If you care to see thios for yourself, read Ezekiel 36, for it is a snapshot of what is coming upon us right now. The religious will resist, the hungry and broken will embrace it.

That is why I ended with that particular scripture.

Blessings, Bruce

dga
Apr 18th 2010, 05:18 PM
All Scripture is God breathed, Old and New Covenant (2 Timothy 3:16). In Chapters 5, 6 and 7 of the Gospel of Matthew, it is obvious that Jesus put the standard even higher, than the Old Testament. For example, in Matthew 5:21, 22, Jesus says that even if one says to his brother 'You are fool', will be in danger of hell. He put the standard higher. Which means, that New Testament believers, have to live in a higher standard and requirements from God. To say to someone 'You are fool', according to the words of Jesus, is equal to killing someone. Maybe, the standard was rized, because the New Testament believers, have the Holy Spirit in them, and he helps them obey God's commands. But in the Old Testament, they did not have the Holy Spirit. Only the priests, and the kings had the Holy Spirit.

inn
Apr 20th 2010, 06:00 PM
Now, you asked why I ended with the scripture that I chose. You are astute to pick up on that for it is important. Let me ask you a question. Do you feel for the most part that the body of Christ is experiencing this "being caused to obey" or have we in essence gone back under the law after we get forgiven? Paul said that if we return to self effort in just one area, we will end up under the entire law, and will experience what those under the old covenant did- failure.

This may be a shallow reply , as I have not thought it completely yet, so I may respond in depth later if this is insufficient. I don t often get time in here, so I am redeeming the time in a sense.

I feel there is a wafting at times when I do get somewhat legalistic, and when I give less attention to ,'mercy reigns over judgement.' This does however bring me back in the end to COMPLETE grace, and end up maturing hugely from this experience.

Thanks for your caring comments, I enjoy this form of communication, and trust others will post answers to all the questions they have something to give... for the building up of the body.
Blessings, rivers keep flowing

inn
Apr 20th 2010, 06:02 PM
All Scripture is God breathed, Old and New Covenant (2 Timothy 3:16). In Chapters 5, 6 and 7 of the Gospel of Matthew, it is obvious that Jesus put the standard even higher, than the Old Testament. For example, in Matthew 5:21, 22, Jesus says that even if one says to his brother 'You are fool', will be in danger of hell. He put the standard higher. Which means, that New Testament believers, have to live in a higher standard and requirements from God. To say to someone 'You are fool', according to the words of Jesus, is equal to killing someone. Maybe, the standard was rized, because the New Testament believers, have the Holy Spirit in them, and he helps them obey God's commands. But in the Old Testament, they did not have the Holy Spirit. Only the priests, and the kings had the Holy Spirit.

Oh yes, and thus we have a GREATER responsibility too then I guess?

Firstfruits
Apr 22nd 2010, 02:09 PM
Oh yes, and thus we have a GREATER responsibility too then I guess?

What then is our responsibility through Christ?

Firstfruits

inn
Apr 22nd 2010, 07:08 PM
What then is our responsibility through Christ?

Firstfruits

We have a bigger responsibility in carring out the great commission, much is about what you posted in.;'What did Jesus command.'
Keep up thee good posts!

inn
May 8th 2010, 12:35 PM
What then is our responsibility through Christ?

Firstfruits

To obey everything He commanded, everything!

Rufus
Jan 6th 2013, 12:03 AM
Hi One and All:

I'm returning after a long absence.

This is a topic that is very dear to my heart; for NCT is actually a hermeneutic; it is the way to proper understanding of God's truth. And so, as I find time I will read everyone's contributions carefully and hopefully make some of my own.

God Bless,
Rufus

Fenris
Jan 8th 2013, 02:03 PM
Simply stated the OT was setup to bring all to the realization that without Jesus, they were totally helpess. In a nutshell.

Weirdly enough, observant Jews have not come to this conclusion...

RabbiKnife
Jan 8th 2013, 03:00 PM
Weirdly enough, observant Jews have not come to this conclusion...

Come on, Fenris, give it up.

The New Covenant does have bacon, you know...

:)

Fenris
Jan 8th 2013, 03:13 PM
Come on, Fenris, give it up.

The New Covenant does have bacon, you know...

In the vernacular of -SEEKING-'s post, I am not totally helpless. I am capable of resisting the temptation. :)

RabbiKnife
Jan 8th 2013, 03:17 PM
In the vernacular of -SEEKING-'s post, I am not totally helpless. I am capable of resisting the temptation. :)


:D..................................

-SEEKING-
Jan 8th 2013, 04:44 PM
Weirdly enough, observant Jews have not come to this conclusion...

I had to scroll up to see my own post. WOW. This was almost 3 years ago when I posted this.

Fenris
Jan 8th 2013, 04:47 PM
Thread necro.......!

-SEEKING-
Jan 8th 2013, 04:53 PM
Thread necro.......!

Yep. The OP hasn't even been here in quite a while.

We're not close to Easter are we? :cool:

BrianW
Jan 8th 2013, 05:51 PM
And there is a good reason that he hasn't been here for a while too. Let us let him and his threads rest shall we?

Thread closed.

But if you are interested in this topic there is a similar ongoing thread on it here;

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/244183-Why-do-so-many-Christians-dismiss-the-OT-as-irrelevant