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Equipped_4_Love
Apr 17th 2010, 04:23 PM
This is probably a really stupid quesion, but I'm going to ask it anyhow.....what is the connection between the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes of Israel. Did each apostle come from a different tribe, or there no connection whatsoever?

Are they the ones who will be sitting at the right hand of Jesus, judging the 12 tribes?

Firstfruits
Apr 17th 2010, 05:12 PM
This is probably a really stupid quesion, but I'm going to ask it anyhow.....what is the connection between the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes of Israel. Did each apostle come from a different tribe, or there no connection whatsoever?

Are they the ones who will be sitting at the right hand of Jesus, judging the 12 tribes?

Would that mean that they would be judging themselves?

Firstfruits

Equipped_4_Love
Apr 17th 2010, 05:25 PM
Would that mean that they would be judging themselves?

Firstfruits

LOL...Good point!!

See, told you it was a dumb question.

Sirus
Apr 17th 2010, 05:37 PM
12 is the number of government
Some of the apostles were brothers from one tribe so they could not represent 12.
Yes it will be the 12 apostles -Judas.

Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Sirus
Apr 17th 2010, 05:39 PM
Would that mean that they would be judging themselves?

FirstfruitsNo because the judging is in the regeneration -millennial reign having to do with government- not eternal judgment.

Equipped_4_Love
Apr 17th 2010, 05:41 PM
Some of the apostles were brothers from one tribe so they could not represent 12.

Oh, yes....of course. Another good point. Thanks. That clarifies a lot.

Didn't Paul replace Judas?

Sirus
Apr 17th 2010, 05:48 PM
Didn't Paul replace Judas?One would think so but technically when Jesus said
"Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me"
He was talking to all (ye) the disciples present that truly followed. How many were there that truly followed?

Sirus
Apr 17th 2010, 05:51 PM
Also, with 12 representing government it doesn't necessarily mean only 12 thrones, but all the thrones that will be a part of running the kingdom in the millennium.

Gillian
Apr 17th 2010, 06:25 PM
This is probably a really stupid quesion, but I'm going to ask it anyhow.....what is the connection between the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes of Israel. Did each apostle come from a different tribe, or there no connection whatsoever?

Are they the ones who will be sitting at the right hand of Jesus, judging the 12 tribes?

They the 12 not in christ time concerning judas.
defily along gentiles saints judge world, these 12 jews will judge Isreal. Im sure it signfance in some smybmol to whole of Isreal Jacob the Isreal. Judah the oldest or second oldest brother first birth in blessing right?? not sure.., the messiac line through David is the messiac line. Jospeh so far doenst appear so, I think benjahams and other neaphew later melted as one counted a tribe with Isreal.

this propley nothing but I noticed earthly step father of Christ Jospeh`s father was called Isreal who bared Jospeh. just intresting tibit. Matthew first chapter.

what you say no doubt signfence in it meaning. but what i mentioned not really as far I try to think. if any of readers able, to see connection in it.
u welcome

Gillian

markedward
Apr 17th 2010, 08:47 PM
Nothing in Scripture says that Paul was the apostle who replaced Judas. Simply that he was an apostle for Gentiles... just as Barnabas, who was never counted as one of the Twelve, but is also called an apostle. [Acts 14.14]

Rather, it was Matthias who replaced Judas; in Acts 1 the eleven remaining apostles cast lots to determine which of two individuals would replace Judas in fulfillment of prophecy. That means that Matthias, the one who was chosen, was prophesied to take the place of Judas, and hence, Matthias is the "official" twelfth apostle, not Paul.

markedward
Apr 17th 2010, 08:50 PM
this propley nothing but I noticed earthly step father of Christ Jospeh`s father was called Isreal who bared Jospeh. just intresting tibit. Matthew first chapter.I might be misunderstanding you, but I think you're confusing two different men named Joseph.

Israel had twelve sons. Two of the twelve sons were named Judah and Joseph. The step-father of Jesus was named Joseph, yes, but he was not the same person as Joseph the son of Israel. Joseph, the step-father of Jesus, was a descendant of Judah.

Equipped_4_Love
Apr 17th 2010, 09:14 PM
Okay....so what I'm getting from all of this is that the issue of which tribe they emanated from is a non-issue. Am I correct?

markedward
Apr 17th 2010, 09:19 PM
Yep. Nothing in Scripture suggests that that was the reason they were chosen.

As pointed out by Sirus, at least two pairs of the apostles (James & John; Peter & Andrew) were brothers (i.e. from the same tribe).

What we can tell from Scripture, by example, is that the number 12 is symbolic for the Covenant people of God. That is the most likely reason for Jesus choosing 12 apostles.

Gillian
Apr 17th 2010, 09:23 PM
I might be misunderstanding you, but I think you're confusing two different men named Joseph.

Israel had twelve sons. Two of the twelve sons were named Judah and Joseph. The step-father of Jesus was named Joseph, yes, but he was not the same person as Joseph the son of Israel. Joseph, the step-father of Jesus, was a descendant of Judah.

you misunderstood me yes. exatly what you say. it just I noticed that and wonder of that bit.

"...Jacob who begat Jospeh who the husband of Mary...." Matthew chapter. these men with names as Jacob begat Josepah in Isreal.


like reading double!! i just wondered of signtance in Matthew because of Christ that all






both sets of men happen to have same name.

Radagast
Apr 19th 2010, 11:52 AM
This is probably a really stupid quesion, but I'm going to ask it anyhow.....what is the connection between the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes of Israel. Did each apostle come from a different tribe, or there no connection whatsoever?

It's symbolic. The 12 tribes are the "old Israel" and the 12 apostles represent the "new Israel," so that the 24 elders of Revelation 4 are the old Israel and the new Israel together in Heaven.

genealogist
Apr 19th 2010, 12:03 PM
This is probably a really stupid quesion, but I'm going to ask it anyhow.....what is the connection between the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes of Israel. Did each apostle come from a different tribe, or there no connection whatsoever?

Are they the ones who will be sitting at the right hand of Jesus, judging the 12 tribes?

No, they were not from all 12 tribes, but mainly from the house of Judah (the returned exiles from the Babylonian exile who were captured from Jerusalem and local area). That means they were from Judah or Benjamin. I don't have a specific genealogy to prove which ones, but for the most part I suspect the latter due to what the Bible says about Benjamin. The Apostle Paul was a Benjaminite (Philippians 3:5)

Sirus
Apr 20th 2010, 01:57 AM
No, they were not from all 12 tribes, but mainly from the house of Judah (the returned exiles from the Babylonian exile who were captured from Jerusalem and local area). That means they were from Judah or Benjamin.Why do you limit them to Judah or Benjamin? Some of some of the other tribes went with Judah or Benjamin to begin with. Cyrus let all Israel return to their land. Jesus did not come to the house of Israel to find they were not there. BTW; "Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser"

genealogist
Apr 20th 2010, 02:03 AM
Why do you limit them to Judah or Benjamin? Some of some of the other tribes went with Judah or Benjamin to begin with. Cyrus let all Israel return to their land. Jesus did not come to the house of Israel to find they were not there. BTW; "Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser"

Genealogically speaking, I was alluding to Ezra 10:9, but yes, there were some others there, albeit scant. Again, nobody knows for sure what tribes the apostles came from, but some were brothers so we know that in that case that they'd be the same tribe for sure. So the tribes with brothers would have a double representation and thus we can't expect them to be from all 12. That much is certain. I have to go off to do something now, and would love to talk more, but yes, your point is taken.

My heart's Desire
Apr 20th 2010, 02:54 AM
This is probably a really stupid quesion, but I'm going to ask it anyhow.....what is the connection between the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes of Israel. Did each apostle come from a different tribe, or there no connection whatsoever?

Are they the ones who will be sitting at the right hand of Jesus, judging the 12 tribes?

I'd say the connection is that the 12 were born under the Law just as Israel was. Yes, they will judge the 12 tribes in the 1000 yrs.

Sirus
Apr 20th 2010, 03:01 AM
Genealogically speaking, I was alluding to Ezra 10:9, but yes, there were some others there, albeit scant. Again, nobody knows for sure what tribes the apostles came from, but some were brothers so we know that in that case that they'd be the same tribe for sure. So the tribes with brothers would have a double representation and thus we can't expect them to be from all 12. That much is certain. I have to go off to do something now, and would love to talk more, but yes, your point is taken.Yes, but the others of Israel that went with Judah and Benjamin at the split are included with Judah and Benjamin in Ezra 10:9. In Ezra 2:59-62, Israel was present, but "they could not shew their father's house, and their seed, whether they were of Israel" and "sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found". They had always kept strict records and Judah continued to do so. It doesn't mean Israel did not return. We know the Samariains and we know Anna of Asher. Clearly all Israel was present when their Messiah appeared and He preached to them all. Some in Jerusalem, some in surrounding cities.

The reason I posted was because you said the 12 apostles "were from Judah or Benjamin". We do not know that, and there's no reason to think so.