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Firefighter
May 4th 2010, 02:02 PM
Any time we discuss theology, it seems that there is some confusion as to the nature and character of God. Not having a correct understanding of the nature and character of God can cause us to form some fairly strange and sometimes heretical doctrine. The best list of God's attributes I have ever found was in a book called Knowledge of the Holy written by a man named A.W. Tozer. If you are interested, I would like to go through and discuss (with scripture) Tozer's divine attributes of God. This is part one of what will likely be a long series of discussions. I have included a list of all of the attributes I would like to discuss, but for now we are only going to tackle Wisdom. Please keep all posts related to wisdom and have scripture ready to support your position.

Full list - Wisdom, Infinitude, Sovereignty, Holiness, Trinity, Omniscience, Faithfulness, Love, Omnipotence, Self-existence, Self-sufficiency, Justice, Immutability, Mercy, Eternal, Goodness, Gracious, Omnipresence

Let's get started with WISDOM.

Romans 11:33-36 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Frecs
May 4th 2010, 02:22 PM
What and excellent study!! Thank you for starting this!

I thought of the book of Job, especially the last few chapters of Job where God confronts Job.

Job 12:13 "To God belong wisdom and power; counsel and understanding are his.
Job 38:2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?

Vhayes
May 4th 2010, 02:30 PM
The entire book of Proverbs.

Proverbs 2
6 - For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
7 - He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
He is a shield to those who walk in integrity,

RabbiKnife
May 4th 2010, 02:31 PM
Yeah, but what is wisdom? It's more than having knowledge, or being smart.

My working definition is: "Wisdom is having the ability to apply knowledge in the best manner possible under the given circumstances in a way that results in the good that God desires."

When you say "Wisdom," what are you talking about?

Frecs
May 4th 2010, 02:47 PM
I found the following definition of wisdom: is knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action; sagacity, discernment, or insight. I wasn’t sure what “sagacity” meant but found that it relates to acuteness of mental discernment and soundness of judgment.

Applying this to God, I’d say that God is Wisdom of Knowledge of what is True and has Just Judgment regarding action (sagacity, discernment, and insight).

Firefighter
May 4th 2010, 02:59 PM
YMy working definition is: "Wisdom is having the ability to apply knowledge in the best manner possible under the given circumstances in a way that results in the good that God desires."

I think that is a good place to start. That is a more than acceptable definition of wisdom.

What does the Bible tell us about godly wisdom?

James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

RabbiKnife
May 4th 2010, 03:01 PM
I think that is a good place to start. That is a more than acceptable definition of wisdom.

What does the Bible tell us about godly wisdom?

James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

I thought it was pretty good for an immature, dishonest mud-slinging warmonger.
:)

Firefighter
May 4th 2010, 03:15 PM
The Bible tells us that all the treasures of wisdom are hid in Him...

Colossians 2:2-3 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

It tells us that His wisdom is manifold (multifaceted)....

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Vhayes
May 4th 2010, 03:17 PM
So to have the mind of Christ is to have wisdom? And to have the mind of Christ one must have the Holy Spirit?

Firefighter
May 4th 2010, 03:30 PM
Can you expound further?

Vhayes
May 4th 2010, 03:33 PM
If we are in fellowship, allowing the Holy Spirit to use us, allowing Him to guide our steps, we will demonstrate wisdom that is beyond our personal capabilities.

Firefighter
May 4th 2010, 03:44 PM
Yes.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Frecs
May 4th 2010, 03:56 PM
Yes.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

And, since a few of the gifts of the Spirit are: discernment and Word of Wisdom, it would seem that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit does enable us to demonstrate wisdom beyond our own human abilities.

Firefighter
May 4th 2010, 03:59 PM
Here is a good excerpt from Job on the value of God's wisdom...

Job 28:12-25 But where shall wisdom be found? and where is the place of understanding? Man knoweth not the price thereof; neither is it found in the land of the living. The depth saith, It is not in me: and the sea saith, It is not with me. It cannot be gotten for gold, neither shall silver be weighed for the price thereof. It cannot be valued with the gold of Ophir, with the precious onyx, or the sapphire. The gold and the crystal cannot equal it: and the exchange of it shall not be for jewels of fine gold. No mention shall be made of coral, or of pearls: for the price of wisdom is above rubies. The topaz of Ethiopia shall not equal it, neither shall it be valued with pure gold. Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding? Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air. Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears. God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof. For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven; To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.

Vhayes
May 4th 2010, 04:02 PM
Ephesians 5
17 - So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.

18 - And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,

Firefighter
May 4th 2010, 04:03 PM
And, since a few of the gifts of the Spirit are: discernment and Word of Wisdom, it would seem that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit does enable us to demonstrate wisdom beyond our own human abilities.

While I agree that it is a gift of the Spirit, I don't necessarily think it is a "baptism of" thing. Solomon was wise long before the NT. I know LOTS of non-pentecostal/charismatics that show bucket loads of Godly wisdom. No where in scripture suggests that the gifts are only for the "baptized". ;)

Firefighter
May 4th 2010, 06:22 PM
Anyone else? Surely we have not exhausted WISDOM yet...

Amos_with_goats
May 4th 2010, 06:43 PM
Anyone else? Surely we have not exhausted WISDOM yet...

It is like mayonnaise for me. All I know is that I do not have enough, and that I must ask for more.....

Thankfully that is all I need to remember. :)


James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

Frecs
May 4th 2010, 07:01 PM
Miracle Whip! ;) :rofl:

Amos_with_goats
May 4th 2010, 07:13 PM
Miracle Whip! ;) :rofl:

THat is salad dressing... or counterfeit wisdom.....


There is a spread that seems right to a man, but the end there of is death....

Frecs
May 4th 2010, 07:15 PM
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Okay, so what denomination are you: Hellmanns, Dukes, or Kraft?

Frecs
May 4th 2010, 07:20 PM
Here is another passage that I've long been fond of as it speaks to God giving specific wisdom to those with specific skills:

Exd 28:3 And thou shalt speak unto all [that are] wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
Exd 31:3-6 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, And in cutting of stones, to set [them], and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship. And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee;

Firefighter
May 4th 2010, 07:22 PM
Here is another passage that I've long been fond of as it speaks to God giving specific wisdom to those with specific skills:

Exd 28:3 And thou shalt speak unto all [that are] wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
Exd 31:3-6 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, And in cutting of stones, to set [them], and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship. And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee;

Yes! I believe that it relates back to the manifold wisdom of God... :pp

Firefighter
May 4th 2010, 07:23 PM
Miracle Whip! ;) :rofl:

Heretic!!!! :lol:

-SEEKING-
May 4th 2010, 10:52 PM
I heard someone once say that wisdom is the intelligent use of intelligence.

I don't really know any scriptures right off hand that will add to this discussion but I'm enjoying reading the other responses.

And one more thing.

Miracle Whip FTW!

Frecs
May 4th 2010, 11:05 PM
Three more interesting one's for consideration:

1Cr 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Cr 2:7, 9-10 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden [wisdom] which God ordained before the ages for our glory, But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him." But God has revealed [them] to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
Eph 3:10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly [places],

Frecs
May 6th 2010, 09:32 AM
It's 5am and I am awake. What's with that? Anyway, I got to thinking about this thread and I thought it ashame that it ended so abruptly. I started googling for more info on the Wisdom of God. Here is some of what I learned:

1. God isn't just wise. God is All-wise. All wisdom is found in Him. (Job 12:13; Isaiah 40:28)
2. God’s wisdom is vastly superior to human wisdom. (Isaiah 55:8-9)
3. God alone is wise. (Romans 16:27)
4. God is the source of wisdom. (James 1:5)

What is wisdom? A source used the following definition: "know how". That implies not just the knowledge of a thing but the how of it. We know that God is all knowledge (omniscient). He is also all-"know-how" or all-wise. "His omniscience undergirds His wisdom."

J.I. Packer wrote: “Wisdom is the power to see, and the inclination to choose, the best and highest goal, together with the surest means of attaining it. Wisdom is, in fact, the practical side of moral goodness. As such, it is found in its fulness only in God. He alone is naturally and entirely and invariable wise.” (Knowing God, p. 80)

The Hebrew word for wisdom (chakmah)

"represents a manner of thinking and attitude concerning life’s experiences; including matters of general interest and basic morality. These concerns relate to prudence in secular affairs, skills in the arts, moral sensitivity, and experience in the ways of the Lord...The wisdom of the Old Testament however, is quite distinct from other ancient world views although the format of wisdom literature is similar to that of other cultures. Reflected in Old Testament wisdom is the teaching of a personal God who is holy and just and who expects those who know him to exhibit his character in the many practical affairs of life. This perfect blend of the revealed will of a holy God with the practical human experiences of life is also distinct from the speculative wisdom of the Greeks. The ethical dynamic of Greek philosophy lay in the intellect; if a person had perfect knowledge he could live the good life (Plato). Knowledge was virtue. The emphasis of Old Testament wisdom was that the human will, in the realm of practical matters, was to be subject to divine causes. Therefore, Hebrew wisdom was not theoretical and speculative, It was practical, based on revealed principles of right and wrong, to be lived out in daily life...The source of all wisdom is a personal God Who is holy, righteous, and just. His wisdom is expressed against the background of his omnipotence and omniscience. By His wisdom God numbered the clouds (Job 38:37), founded the earth ("Jehovah by wisdom founded the earth. By understanding He established the heavens." Pr 3:19, cf "O Lord, how many are Thy works! In wisdom Thou hast made them all, the earth is full of Thy possessions." (Ps 104:24), and made the world (Jer 10:12). Wisdom, being found in God, is regarded as a divine attribute (Job 12:13). He alone knows wisdom in its truest sense (Job 28:20, 23). The wisdom of God is not found in man’s speculation. He alone must provide this wisdom for man’s guidance so that man can live the best possible moral and ethical life (Pr 2:6; Job 11:6)." (Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, p282-283).

J. I. Packer writes in Knowing God that

"When the old Reformed theologians dealt with the attributes of God, they used to classify them in two groups: incommunicable and communicable. In the first group, they put those qualities which highlight God’s transcendence and show how vastly different a being He is from us, His creatures. The usual list was—God’s independence (self–existence and self–sufficiency); His immutability (entire freedom from change, leading to entire consistency in action); His infinity (freedom from all limits of time and space: that is, his eternity and omnipresence); and His simplicity (the fact that there are in Him no elements that can conflict, so that, unlike us, He cannot be torn in different directions by divergent thoughts and desires). The theologians called these qualities incommunicable because they are characteristic of God alone; man, just because he is man and not God, does not and cannot share any of them. In the second group, the theologians lumped together qualities like God’s spirituality, freedom and omnipotence, along with all his moral attributes—goodness, truth, holiness, righteousness and so on. What was the principle of classification here? It was this—that when God made man, he communicated to him qualities corresponding to all these....Among these communicable attributes, the theologians put wisdom. As God is wise in Himself, so He imparts wisdom to his creatures.

Firefighter
May 6th 2010, 04:24 PM
Great Post !!!

JohnDB
May 7th 2010, 01:07 PM
I really like the book you are reading...many of the principles he lays out in this book are absolutes...not things to ever not consider when discussing or reading God's word at all...

BUT as far as wisdom goes...I think he could have pushed one other point a little harder.

All wisdom comes from God...
No one has any that didn't come from God. (trying not to brush too hard on Sovereignty here)
So...since all wisdom (right application of knowledge) comes from God...the ability of some to understand and comprehend things is strictly an ability God gives....and a reason Jesus fussed so much at the Pharisees...they did understand but refused to change. They have too much invested in their own notions and popular culture's wisdom.
Jesus often used them as an example of how this dedication to popular wisdom can make a person "blind" to the truth.

Amos_with_goats
May 7th 2010, 01:57 PM
.....All wisdom comes from God...
No one has any that didn't come from God. (trying not to brush too hard on Sovereignty here)
So...since all wisdom (right application of knowledge) comes from God...the ability of some to understand and comprehend things is strictly an ability God gives....and a reason Jesus fussed so much at the Pharisees...they did understand but refused to change. They have too much invested in their own notions and popular culture's wisdom.
Jesus often used them as an example of how this dedication to popular wisdom can make a person "blind" to the truth.

It took the Lord over 14 years of study in college... through various undergraduate work, through grad school and some post graduate work.... all to show me that the things I had believed about mens wisdom were not true. I have come to see this process as the systematic dis assembly of the notion that knowledge equates to wisdom.

We are to be diligent to study to 'show ourselves approved', but that is to the Lord not that we might impress other men. Such is the temptation though. Knowledge 'puffs up'... it is LOVE that edifies.

Man has no wisdom. The wisdom of men is foolishness.

Firefighter
May 7th 2010, 02:08 PM
It took the Lord over 14 years of study in college... through various undergraduate work, through grad school and some post graduate work....

As I read this part I thought "I don't remember Jesus going to school..." :lol:

Frecs
May 7th 2010, 02:13 PM
As I read this part I thought "I don't remember Jesus going to school..." :lol:

:rofl::rofl: I thought the same thing!

Amos_with_goats
May 7th 2010, 02:15 PM
As I read this part I thought "I don't remember Jesus going to school..." :lol:

It took me so long as I am a little.. (a lot) slower then most...

As for the Lord, well... He spent time in school also. Only He was teaching....

Firefighter
May 7th 2010, 02:21 PM
I know He has taken me to school on more than one occasion... ;)

Slug1
May 7th 2010, 02:38 PM
I know He has taken me to school on more than one occasion... ;)Tell me about it!! Why do some of the graduation ceremonies mean He let's go and I land on my head to drive in all that I learned, deeper into me?

Firefighter
May 7th 2010, 02:43 PM
As my Dad always told me... "A hard head makes for a red butt." :lol:

RabbiKnife
May 7th 2010, 06:59 PM
I know He has taken me to school on more than one occasion... ;)

That wasn't a school, that was a woodshed....

JohnDB
May 8th 2010, 12:33 AM
That wasn't a school, that was a woodshed....

But I went there a lot...and still didn't learn anything...I had a very hard head AND a tough butt.

Equipped_4_Love
May 8th 2010, 01:55 AM
As my Dad always told me... "A hard head makes for a red butt." :lol:

Sounds like your dad and my dad would have been very good friends :)

Equipped_4_Love
May 8th 2010, 02:06 AM
1 Cor. 3:18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.

All wisdom comes from God, and God only gives wisdom to those who will humble themselves before Him, totally and completely. So, yes, I do believe that humility is the first step to gaining wisdom....and wisdom starts with the realization that we really know nothing.

The Bible not only makes a distinction between the wisdom of God and of this world, but also between those who are wise in their own eyes, and those who are humble. A humble spirit is teachable, while a prideful spirit is stubborn.

Contrary to what many believe, wisdom has nothing to do with how often you are correct. Wisdom is about knowing when you are wrong, and being humble enough to admit it. Those who admit that they are mistaken are the ones who learn from their mistakes.

Yes, wisdom is the correct application of knowledge, but as humans, our knowledge will always be limited. Wisdom has less to do with knowledge and personal experience as it does correctly discerning between truth and falsehood.

While it is possible to have the wisdom of God through the Holy Spirit, it is impossible to have the infallible wisdom that God possesses. We are humans, and will always make mistakes. -- and real, true wisdom is the ability to acknowledge that.

Equipped_4_Love
May 8th 2010, 02:13 AM
But I went there a lot...and still didn't learn anything...I had a very hard head AND a tough butt.

OUCH!! If you had been wise, you would have worn extra underwear, to cushion the belt.

karmayatra
Jun 10th 2011, 02:48 PM
It took the Lord over 14 years of study in college... through various undergraduate work, through grad school and some post graduate work.... all to show me that the things I had believed about mens wisdom were not true. I have come to see this process as the systematic dis assembly of the notion that knowledge equates to wisdom.
...

Man has no wisdom. The wisdom of men is foolishness.

Well said! True wisdom is from the LORD.