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whitesquaw
Jun 16th 2010, 06:58 PM
Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So a man is the combination between breath and life and that is when one becomes a living soul. If so, then when we die the soul dies to if there is no breath of life left.

Just something I have been pondering and wondering what others think.

The Mighty Sword
Jun 16th 2010, 07:45 PM
Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So a man is the combination between breath and life and that is when one becomes a living soul. If so, then when we die the soul dies to if there is no breath of life left.

Just something I have been pondering and wondering what others think.

"and man became a living soul.

Man- Soul


From What I understand the Breath of Life is not actual breath but a soul.

-SEEKING-
Jun 16th 2010, 07:53 PM
The soul doesn't die. It returns to the Father. The body dies and returns to the earth from where it came from. At least that's how I understand it.

The Mighty Sword
Jun 16th 2010, 07:57 PM
The soul doesn't die. It returns to the Father. The body dies and returns to the earth from where it came from. At least that's how I understand it.

Here, here....................

Joey Porter
Jun 16th 2010, 08:32 PM
Actually, the spirit and the soul are two separate entities (Hebrews 4) and when a person (soul,life, existing being) dies, the spirit returns to the Father (Ecclesiastes 12). Souls DO die (Ezekiel 18).

As a general rule, I go by the equation spirit (breath) + body = soul. Without both a body and spirit, there is no soul, as indicated in Genesis 2.

Nomad
Jun 16th 2010, 10:11 PM
Souls DO die (Ezekiel 18).

No, the immaterial part of man does not cease to exist after physical death. The word 'soul' in Eze. 18 is not being used in that sense. Many never realize that the word translated 'soul' in Scripture has a rather wide semantic range. It's not always used in the way that we usually think of it. The following ISBE entry will explain the various ways that 'soul' is used in the Old and New Testaments.


Soul
sōl (נפשׁ, nephesh; ψυχή, psuchḗ; Latin anima):

1. Shades of Meaning in the Old Testament:

(1) Soul, like spirit, has various shades of meaning in the Old Testament, which may be summarized as follows: “Soul,” “living being,” “life,” “self,” “person,” “desire,” “appetite,” “emotion” and “passion” (BDB under the word). In the first instance it meant that which breathes, and as such is distinguished from bāsār, “flesh” (Isa_10:18; Deu_12:23); from she'ēr, “the inner flesh,” next the bones (Pro_11:17, “his own flesh”); from beṭen, “belly” (Psa_31:10, “My soul and my belly are consumed with grief”), etc.

(2) As the life-breath, it departs at death (Gen_35:18; Jer_15:2). Hence, the desire among Old Testament saints to be delivered from Sheol (Psa_16:10, “Thou wilt not leave my soul to Sheol”) and from shachath, “the pit” (Job_33:18, “He keepeth back his soul from the pit”; Isa_38:17, “Thou hast ... delivered it (my soul) from the pit of corruption”).

(3) By an easy transition the word comes to stand for the individual, personal life, the person, with two distinct shades of meaning which might best be indicated by the Latin anima and animus. As anima, “soul,” the life inherent in the body, the animating principle in the blood is denoted (compare Deu_12:23, Deu_12:24, 'Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the soul; and thou shalt not eat the soul with the flesh'). As animus, “mind,” the center of our mental activities and passivities is indicated. Thus we read of 'a hungry soul' (Psa_107:9), 'a weary soul' (Jer_31:25), 'a loathing soul' (Lev_26:11), 'a thirsty soul' (Psa_42:2), 'a grieved soul' (Job_30:25), 'a loving soul' (Son_1:7), and many kindred expressions. Cremer has characterized this use of the word in a sentence: “Nephesh (soul) in man is the subject of personal life, whereof pneúma or rūaḥ (spirit) is the principle” (Lexicon, under the word, 795).

(4) This individuality of man, however, may be denoted by pneuma as well, but with a distinction. Nephesh or “soul” can only denote the individual life with a material organization or body. Pneuma or “spirit” is not so restricted. Scripture speaks of “spirits of just men made perfect” (Heb_12:23), where there can be no thought of a material or physical or corporeal organization. They are “spiritual beings freed from the assaults and defilements of the flesh” (Delitzsch, in the place cited.). For an exceptional use of psuchē in the same sense see Rev_6:9; Rev_20:4, and (irrespective of the meaning of Psa_16:10) Act_2:27.

2. New Testament Distinctions:

(1) In the New Testament psuchē appears under more or less similar conditions as in the Old Testament. The contrast here is as carefully maintained as there. It is used where pneuma would be out of place; and yet it seems at times to be employed where pneuma might have been substituted. Thus in Joh_19:30 we read: “Jesus gave up his pneuma” to the Father, and, in the same Gospel (Joh_10:15), Jesus gave up His “psuchē for the sheep,” and in Mat_20:28 He gave His psuchē (not His pneuma) as a ransom - a difference which is characteristic. For the pneuma stands in quite a different relation to God from the psuchē. The “spirit” (pneuma) is the outbreathing of God into the creature, the life-principle derived from God. The “soul” (psuchē) is man's individual possession, that which distinguishes one man from another and from inanimate nature. The pneuma of Christ was surrendered to the Father in death; His psuchē was surrendered, His individual life was given “a ransom for many.” His life “was given for the sheep”

(2) This explains those expressions in the New Testament which bear on the salvation of the soul and its preservation in the regions of the dead. “Thou wilt not leave my soul unto Hades” (the world of shades) (Act_2:27); “Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil” (Rom_2:9); “We are ... of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul” (Heb_10:39); “Receive ... the implanted word, which is able to save your souls” (Jam_1:21).
The same or similar expressions may be met with in the Old Testament in reference to the soul. Thus in Psa_49:8, the King James Version “The redemption of their soul is precious” and again: “God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol” (Psa_49:15). Perhaps this may explain - at least this is Wendt's explanation - why even a corpse is called nephesh or soul in the Old Testament, because, in the region of the dead, the individuality is retained and, in a measure, separated from God (compare Hag_2:13; Lev_21:11).

3. Oehler on Soul and Spirit:

The distinction between psuchē and pneuma, or nephesh and rūaḥ, to which reference has been made, may best be described in the words of Oehler (Old Testament Theology, I, 217): “Man is not spirit, but has it: he is soul.... In the soul, which sprang from the spirit, and exists continually through it, lies the individuality - in the case of man, his personality, his self, his ego.” He draws attention to the words of Elihu in Job (Job_33:4): 'God's spirit made me,' the soul called into being; 'and the breath of the Almighty animates me,' the soul kept in energy and strength, in continued existence, by the Almighty, into whose hands the inbreathed spirit is surrendered, when the soul departs or is taken from us (1Ki_19:4). Hence, according to Oehler the phrases naphshı̄ (“my soul”), naphshekhā (“thy soul”) may be rendered in Latin egomet, tu ipse; but not rūḥı̄ (“my spirit”), ruḥăkhā (“thy spirit”) - soul standing for the whole person, as in Gen_12:5; Gen_17:14; Eze_18:4, etc. See PSYCHOLOGY.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Joey Porter
Jun 17th 2010, 12:57 PM
No, the immaterial part of man does not cease to exist after physical death. The word 'soul' in Eze. 18 is not being used in that sense. Many never realize that the word translated 'soul' in Scripture has a rather wide semantic range. It's not always used in the way that we usually think of it. The following ISBE entry will explain the various ways that 'soul' is used in the Old and New Testaments.

Well I do agree that "soul" has a bit of a mysterious and/or wide range of usage.

But that's what I was alluding to in my first post. A soul can and does have the meaning of an actual concrete being, as well as the existence of a being. But not necessarily a part of a being. I think it is appropriate that the word "life" could be substituted for "soul," just as the word "being" could be substituted for "soul."

For example, we could just as easily say "Many souls were lost in the tragedy," just as we could say "Many lives were lost in the tragedy." Likewise, we could say "Many people perished" or "Many souls perished." In either case, however, the "soul" or the "life" is not an actual part of the person, as the spirit actually would be. It is in fact the person himself, or the existence of the person.

When the spirit departs the body, the soul does not exist in the complete sense of when the spirit was contained in the body. The soul does still exist in the sense that the acknowledgement and memory of that person's existence lives on, but not personally in a conscience way to that person.

The Hebrew word "sheol" is the equivalent of the Greek word "hades" which literally means "to not see" or "to not perceive." This is the place where scripture speaks of souls going upon death.

This agrees with the idea of sheol as spoken of in Ecclesiastes.

Ecclesiastes 9
10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave (sheol in the Hebrew text), where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

The scriptures say that Yahshua gave up His spirit to the Father upon His death. However they also say that He descended to the nether regions, or the grave, or hades, sheol. That is, the idea of His existence was in hades, was in "to not see," the place where there is no "working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom."

Scripture seems to show that the actual being or existence or idea of the being that we would refer to as "he" is what we would refer to as the "soul," while the part of the being within the man would be the "spirit."

We can also gather this from the way in which Yahshua said, AFTER His resurrection, that He Himself had not yet gone up to the Father, even though scripture tells us that His spirit went to the Father upon His death. He gave up His spirit, a part of Him, while He Himself, His soul, went to the grave, sheol, hades.

SirToady
Jun 17th 2010, 01:38 PM
Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So a man is the combination between breath and life and that is when one becomes a living soul. If so, then when we die the soul dies to if there is no breath of life left.

Just something I have been pondering and wondering what others think.

The Word is the life of the spirit(soul), the spirit is the life of the blood and the blood is the life of the flesh. Christ tells us that when our earthly bodies die - we are "asleep". The soul is the eternal essence of our being.

percho
Jun 17th 2010, 04:12 PM
The Word is the life of the spirit(soul), the spirit is the life of the blood and the blood is the life of the flesh. Christ tells us that when our earthly bodies die - we are "asleep". The soul is the eternal essence of our being.

Are you saying the word for spirit and the word for soul are the same word. Reading only Gen 2:7 the dust of the earth was formed into man that is given shape material substance yet without life. God then breathed into this material the breath of life and it what was formed from the dust of the ground, which I take to mean the elements, became a living soul. Jesus the Christ was buried in a tomb, what we would call a grave. Peter said that king David hundreds of years after he had died was still dead and buried but being a prophet spoke of the Christ Jesus saying that he would not see corruption that is what was formed from the ground would not return to the elements and that his soul what he became when life/spirit was added b ut was now dead because the life/spirit had returned to God from whence it came would not be left in hell/hades/the tomb/grave. That was Jesus the Christ in the grave body and soul. What had given Him life had returned to God. He was dead and remained that way for three days and three nights then God the Father raised Him Jesus the Christ from the dead with the life spoken of in John 5:26,21 in that order and He Jesus the Christ became the firstborn from the dead. And that is the only hope of immortal life/immortality that we have to be born again.

Oregongrown
Jun 17th 2010, 05:28 PM
I believe my mind and body make up the soul. It is my spirit that will live on. The bible says we will have new bodies right? I don't know the verse right off. But I don't believe my new body will be exactly like this one that deteriorates etc. The bible does say God's ways are higher then mine so I don't expect I'll ever figure it all out;) With God I think it is on a "need to know" basis, lol:)

a sister in Christ, Denise
PS I do believe your statement makes good sense. I am anxious to read more opinions though, just no time right now. I'm gonna leave this up on my puter though. Really interesting and I love learning about His Word:)


Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So a man is the combination between breath and life and that is when one becomes a living soul. If so, then when we die the soul dies to if there is no breath of life left.


Just something I have been pondering and wondering what others think.

Oregongrown
Jun 17th 2010, 05:32 PM
this really makes good sense. Do you know a verse that might back this up? I agree with this in theory but I would love to know some verses so if it comes up in conversations later, I will know for sure;)

Denise

Oregongrown
Jun 22nd 2010, 04:08 PM
After a bit of research I can see where I was wrong about the soul being the mind and body.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.(KJV)

I'm going to do more studying and see if I can come to a true understanding of what becomes of the soul:) Denise





I believe my mind and body make up the soul. It is my spirit that will live on. The bible says we will have new bodies right? I don't know the verse right off. But I don't believe my new body will be exactly like this one that deteriorates etc. The bible does say God's ways are higher then mine so I don't expect I'll ever figure it all out;) With God I think it is on a "need to know" basis, lol:)

a sister in Christ, Denise
PS I do believe your statement makes good sense. I am anxious to read more opinions though, just no time right now. I'm gonna leave this up on my puter though. Really interesting and I love learning about His Word:)

Oregongrown
Jun 22nd 2010, 11:31 PM
The soul doesn't die. It returns to the Father. The body dies and returns to the earth from where it came from. At least that's how I understand it.



this really makes good sense. Do you know a verse that might back this up? I agree with this in theory but I would love to know some verses so if it comes up in conversations later, I will know for sure;)

Denise


I found this scripture for one thing "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Eccl 12:7(KJV)

"Death is never defined by lexicographers as extinction, annihilation, non-existence or unconsciousness. Death in the Bible is always pictured as a separation between two things".

"False teachers wrongly define death as extinction, annihilation, non-existence or unconsciousness. Man has no conscious existence apart from the body after he dies".

Death as "non-existence" is a member of "Domino Theology (http://www.bible.ca/domino.htm)"
(Refute one element & refute the whole system!)


I gathered this info from bible.ca if anyone wants to check it out. So for me the original posters thought was interesting but for me to agree I would need verses to back it up. I couldn't find anything that suggested or said that the body and soul both cease to exist at death. And now, that makes total sense since God's Word is full of references to our eternal life as well as our new heaven and earth.