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Equipped_4_Love
Jun 27th 2010, 04:57 PM
I've heard a lot of theories regarding this passage, which is in 1 John 5:6.

Some believe they refer to the baptism and death of Christ. Others believe it refers to the water and the blood which poured from His side.

Is there any chance that it could refer to His birth and His death?

When Nicodemus asked what a man must do to be born again, Jesus said that a man cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven unless He has been born of the water and of the Spirit. I don't believe this (water) refers to baptism, but to natural birth, because of the phrase "that which is born of the flesh is flesh."

So, the apostle John says that He came by the water and by the blood. Could this be referring to His natural birth, and His death? The natural birth thing would make sense, because John was also making reference through the epistle of those who did not believe that Jesus had come in the flesh. This seems like a perfect refeence to that.

Anyhow, what are your thoughts?

kay-gee
Jun 28th 2010, 02:21 AM
The water in John 3:5 is absolutely baptism. The born of the flesh bit, is an attempt by some to by-pass baptism. These words become even more clear in light of Acts 2:38, Rom 6:3-5, 1Peter 3:21.

all the best...

threebigrocks
Jun 28th 2010, 03:15 AM
kay-gee, the OP is referring to 1 John 5:6, not John 3:5. I've included it below, also to include verses 7 and 9.

6This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

kay-gee
Jun 28th 2010, 12:47 PM
OK I will deall with that. 1John 5:6-7

In the born again persons life, there are 3 witnesses to salvation

a) Jesus blood poured out for the remission of sins. Washes away sins (Matt 26:28) (Rev 1:5)

b) Water baptism which washes away sin and clothes us in Christ. (Acts 22:16) (Galations 3:27 *NIV) Since baptism and blood wash sins, there is a connection. The water baptism is obviously the point of contact in which the individul applies the blood to their own life. This is where the "offered" blood becomes the "recieved" blood. The entering into covenant relationship. New Testament (Matt 26:28)

c) Spirit, which is given to the believer upon repentance and baptism. (Acts 2:38) It is the ongoing work of the Spirit in ones life that provides proof to the world of salvation. (Galations 5:22-23)

Jesus said one must be born of water and spirit. All fits. No problem

hopes this helps

all the best...

notuptome
Jun 28th 2010, 06:56 PM
This verse has nothing to do with water baptism. Jesus brought the water that is living water. John 14:6 Jesus came to shed His blood for the remission of sins. John 10:11 All this is testified to by the Holy Spirit. John 15:26

There is some question on vs 7 and it has been asserted that vs 7 is not in the original manuscripts but was inserted at a later date. I do not think vs 7 detracts from the point but it is not a verse I would build a doctrine upon. Verse 8 refocuses the point to the earthly witness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Joey Porter
Jun 28th 2010, 07:52 PM
Actually, the original Greek text does not necessarily imply or confine this "coming" to a past tense. Really, it would more accurately be translated as "the one whose coming is by water and blood."

Water and blood, both of which were poured out of His side as He slept upon the cross, represent the bride of Christ.

Water and blood also can represent the second and sixth days of creation. On the second day, Yahweh separated the waters, and on the sixth day, he created man, whose life is sustained by his blood. These numbers two and six also equate to the second and sixth churches of the 7 in Revelation.

The second church, Smyrna, and the sixth, Philadelphia, are the only two churches that do not receive rebuked, and the only two churches in which a "crown" is spoken of. These churches represent the two part bride of Christ - those who have died, and who sleep and will be resurrected and glorified, and those who will be alive and remaining at the time of His coming. (Smyrna represents those who have died; Philadelphia those who will remain alive.)

Yahshua will not return until His bride has made herself ready.

kay-gee
Jun 28th 2010, 08:00 PM
[QUOTE]This verse has nothing to do with water baptism. Jesus brought the water that is living water. John 14:6 Jesus came to shed His blood for the remission of sins. John 10:11 All this is testified to by the Holy Spirit. John 15:26

Sorry notuptome. Unless there is something in the verse that implies other than literal water, then it is literal water. Since it is literal water, what else can it be but water baptism? Jesus said born of the water and the spirit. Jesus was baptized in water and the Spirit appeared and lighted on Him. Peter said in Acts 2:38 baptized for the "remission" of sins and you shall recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit. It all fits. water is water. You have yet to explain Acts 22:16. We Know from this verse and from 2:38 that water baptism washes away sins. We also know that Jesus blood washes away sins. Put 2 and 2 together. Obviously there is a connection between the water and the blood. Thus John mentions it in 1John 5:7. The spirit bears witness also. Now review again. Jesus own batism...Spirit appears. Jesus says born of water and spirit. Acts 2:38 says baptized and recieve spirit. No problem except to those who choose to remain in error.


There is some question on vs 7 and it has been asserted that vs 7 is not in the original manuscripts but was inserted at a later date. I do not think vs 7 detracts from the point but it is not a verse I would build a doctrine upon. Verse 8 refocuses the point to the earthly witness.

Oh, here we go again with the old ..."I can't make the verse fit my doctrine, so it can't be part of the original Bible" routine. Shameless!
Noone is building a doctrine on this verse. It is just another verse that shows an already rock solid doctrine is true.

all the best...