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AndrewBaptistFL
Aug 18th 2010, 06:28 PM
I am writing an essay on the subject and am interested in getting (some of) your views on the matter. I have several stipulations before I ask my questions:
1) Every response must be accompanied by supporting Biblical scripture.
2) All replies must be in regard to the opening post and it's questions.
3) That this thread does not become derailed or degenerated into a theological argument.
Alright so the questions to address are:
1) What is salvation?
2) What are we saved from?
3) How is salvation attained?
4) How does the life of one who has been given salvation reflect that gift?
 

Bladers
Aug 18th 2010, 07:15 PM
I am writing an essay on the subject and am interested in getting (some of) your views on the matter. I have several stipulations before I ask my questions:
Alright so the questions to address are:
1) What is salvation?
2) What are we saved from?
3) How is salvation attained?
4) How does the life of one who has been given salvation reflect that gift?
 

The only problem is, two of your questions are flawed.
1) Salvation is not a what, its a person, his name is Jesus. Salvation is not a gift box, its not a key, its not an object that you have. It is a person. (1 John 1:2, 1 John 5:11-12)
2) Wrath of God. (John 3:36)
3) It can't be attained, can only be accepted. (John 1:12)
4) Depends...

markedward
Aug 18th 2010, 07:18 PM
I think you missed something from the OP, Bladers...

Every response must be accompanied by supporting Biblical scripture.

Bladers
Aug 18th 2010, 07:20 PM
I think you missed something from the OP, Bladers...

Look back, I just edited my posts.

AndrewBaptistFL
Aug 18th 2010, 08:32 PM
3) It can't be attained, can only be accepted. (John 1:12)

Would our life reflect our accepting of that gift?
Matthew 3:7-9
7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

gringo300
Aug 22nd 2010, 05:05 AM
What are we saved from?

Read the account of the Garden Of Eden incident.

Notice that God told Adam and Eve to not even TOUCH the fruit.

A lot of people seem to overlook the part about not even TOUCHING the fruit.

David2
Aug 22nd 2010, 08:17 AM
1) What is salvation?
Salvation can be defined as the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:22)

2) What are we saved from?

There are at least four obstacles between sinful man and a holy God that needs to be overcome. Salvation does just that.
a) The character of God is so flawless and the nature of man so full of flaws that the very holiness of God becomes a barrier to man (Jer. 17:9; Isaiah 64:6). By man's failing to measure up to the character of God, he has incured the just sentencing of God, the death penalty (Rom. 1:18).
(b) The second barrier is our debt of sin. We inherited a sinful nature from Adam but he was not the only culprit (Mark 7:20-23; Rom. 5:12).
(c) Slavery to Satan. (Joh. 8:34-44). Jesus told the Jews that their decent from Abraham would not save them (neither would baptism or covenant for us). He told them that unless they had the same faith in Him as Messiah, which Abraham had, then Abraham's father was not their father - Satan was. There are only two fatherhoods. If it is not the one, it will be the other. The sell-out of Adam to Satan is what brought the whole world into the mess it is in today (1 Joh. 5:19; 2 Cor. 4:4; Acts 26:18).
(d) The last barrier is spiritual death. Adam and Eve died because of sin. Spiritual death came upon the world. Man is short-circuited. The power of God can not empower us in this state (Rom. 5:12). If man is not born again, he can not escape this terrible state of death (John 3:3). Aside from all other disastrous consequences of man's disobedience to God, perhaps the worst is that God withdrew from man His spiritual life and left man with a dead spirit (Eph 2:1).

3) How is salvation attained?

By faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith is a decision of destiny. Some might say we are spiritually dead and as such we can not even have faith in Christ. But we are not brain dead, we are spiritually dead. The gospel can and must be preached to people who are spiritually dead. The soul and the mind is still active and it has to react to the preaching of the gospel and make the decision of destiny. We can do that, because at Calvary God has through His Son removed the four barriers by propitiation (1 Joh. 2:2), redemption (1 Tim. 2:5,6), substitutionary death (Hebr. 2:9) and reconciliation (2 Cor. 5:19). The barriers have been overcome. The penalty was paid. Reconciliation restored the reality of spiritual life. It is there for the taking. God has placed His offer of free forgiveness in front of every individual and it is available to all, but it will only be the possession of those that take it. Grace is God's part. Faith is man's. Some say faith plus baptism. Others say faith plus the Lordship of Christ and I believe the Bible says faith plus nothing (Eph. 2:8,9; Rom. 4:4,5).

4) How does the life of one who has been given salvation reflect that gift?

Rom. 6:1-23

jes
Aug 18th 2011, 05:49 AM
1) What is salvation?
2) What are we saved from?

Salvation is being delivered from eternal destruction and is a continual process (John 3:16)

3) How is salvation attained?

Acts 2:38
1. Repent
2. Be baptised in water
3. Receive the Holy Spirit and you will speak in tongues

God's salvation message is very simple.

4) How does the life of one who has been given salvation reflect that gift?

Walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh (Galatians 6)

mailmandan
Aug 20th 2011, 12:15 PM
jes ]1) What is salvation?

2) What are we saved from?

Salvation is being delivered from eternal destruction and is a continual process (John 3:16)

For by grace you have been (past tense) saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). Therefore, having been (past tense) justified by faith (Romans 5:1) Justification is not a process by which we have been (past tense) saved from the PENALTY of sin. Sanctification is an ongoing process by which we are being saved from the POWER of sin. Sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a perfect life (which we won't) we are still justified by faith. Glorification is the future result by which we will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin.


3) How is salvation attained?

Acts 2:38
1. Repent
2. Be baptised in water
3. Receive the Holy Spirit and you will speak in tongues

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. So in Acts 2:38, repentance is the means of receiving forgiveness, and baptism is only the sign (in reference to) true repentance and forgiveness. Indeed, a short time later the apostle Peter promised forgiveness on the basis of repentance without even mentioning baptism (Acts 3:19 – Repent, therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out). Faith in the Messiah (implied in genuine repentance) "rather than baptism" brings the actual forgiveness of sins and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9) *Perfect Harmony*

Your interpretation of Acts 2:38 (receiving the Holy Spirit and the remission of sins through water baptism) is in conflict with these passages of Scripture below.

...whosoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

"Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" (Acts 10:47)

If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" (Acts 11:17)

So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:8,9)


God's salvation message is very simple.

Yes it is. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31)


[4) How does the life of one who has been given salvation reflect that gift?

Walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh (Galatians 6)

After we have received the free gift of salvation through faith, we then walk in the Spirit.

jes
Aug 20th 2011, 12:24 PM
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. So in Acts 2:38, repentance is the means of receiving forgiveness, and baptism is only the sign (in reference to) true repentance and forgiveness. Indeed, a short time later the apostle Peter promised forgiveness on the basis of repentance without even mentioning baptism (Acts 3:19 – Repent, therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out). Faith in the Messiah (implied in genuine repentance) "rather than baptism" brings the actual forgiveness of sins and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9) *Perfect Harmony*

Your interpretation of Acts 2:38 (receiving the Holy Spirit and the remission of sins through water baptism) is in conflict with these passages of Scripture below.
(Acts 15:8,9)


I made no such interpretation that baptism in water removes sin. You have assumed something I never said.

However, I still believe that baptism in water is a command of Jesus Christ, so one is baptised in water.

mailmandan
Aug 21st 2011, 12:24 PM
I made no such interpretation that baptism in water removes sin. You have assumed something I never said.

However, I still believe that baptism in water is a command of Jesus Christ, so one is baptised in water.

Water baptism is a command that we are expected to obey. However, it's not our obedience to this command that saves us, but our believing in Christ for salvation (Acts 10:43-48). Baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation. You asked the question, "how is salvation attained" then you included "be baptized in water" in your answer. If you don't believe that baptism in water removes sin then why did you list it in your answer to the question on how salvation is attained?

Walls
Aug 22nd 2011, 06:15 PM
Dear Andrew_No_One

May I try? It is a big subject. I will be as brief as possible.

1) What is salvation? And
2) What are we saved from?
These two questions can be answered together. When answered from a secular point of view, they can be answered by a dictionary. From a biblical viewpoint it is just an expanded and more specific salvation. God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them for His Son Jesus Christ. He even used His Son as the creator and sustainer (Col.1:16-17; Heb.2:10 etc.). The peak of this creation is man, not the angels. Man was created for four things.

1. He was to be in God’s image (Gen.1:26-28). That is, he was express God at the highest level. The rest of creation expresses God (Rom.1:19) but not at the level that man should. Man’s expression of God is realized in Jesus of Nazareth.
2. He was to subdue the earth and rule it (Gen.1:26-28). “Subdue” implies that there were unlawful activities taking place that needed to be stopped. “Rule” means to institute orderly government.
3. He was to “dress and keep” the Garden in which he had fellowship with God (Gen.2:15). “Dress” means to bring to order, and “keep” means to fence-about, or build a wall around. Fellowship with God is the highest form of enjoyment a man can have (Ps.16:11)
4. He was to be an “help meet” for Jesus Christ (2nd Cor.11:2). That is, the Man Jesus was to have a companion up to His standard. This beautifully and accurately depicted by Eve. After all the animals had passed before Adam, he found no partner for himself. One had to be made out of him.

Due to man’s decision to purposely and voluntarily disregard God’s provision and commands, he (i) became alienated from these goals, and (ii) incurred the wrath of His Creator. Because he was designed and made for these goals, his inability to achieve them causes extreme lack of well-being, and God, as a righteous Judge must render to is enemy just retribution. The Greek word used in the New Testament for this state of extreme lack of well-being is rendered either “destruction” or “perdition” (see Vine’s Expository Dictionary). It does not have the sense of annihilation. It has the sense is of a ship that has sunk. It is still a ship but it has become useless for the intended task. It is also called the “Second Death” (Rev.20:14). In man’s case it is depicted by God as (i) a Lake of Fire (Rev 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8), or (ii) more personally, a sense of being eaten by worms and burned up internally (Isa.66:24). In our lifetimes, the pain of rejection, the death of a child or a divorce would be in this direction but not as intense.

The reversal of this “perdition” to the original goals and enjoyment of being in the Creators’ plan, is biblical salvation.

3) How is salvation attained?Four things are saved in the bible.

1. The spirit of man (Jn.3:6)
2. The soul of man (1st Pet.1:9)
3. The body of man (Rom.8:22)
4. The creature as it pertains to the earth and its environs (Rom.8:19-21)

1.
Contrary to some expositors, who claim that Adam died “spiritually” the day he ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, the spirit of man never dies. There is no such concept anywhere in scripture. The spirit of man is the breath of God. When a man dies his spirit returns to God (Ecc.3:21; 12:7; Lk.23:46 etc.). The spirit of man is his vitality or the thing that keeps him alive (Jas.2:26). When God created man He designed that His “initial” breathing into the man would give him human life. But the spirit of man needed a second breathing into for “eternal” or (God’s) divine life. This second inbreathing would make him (i) immortal, (ii) equipped to be Christ’s Bride by having the divine nature, and (iii) equipped to accomplish the other tasks against a more powerful enemy. This was to be achieved by the eating from Tree of Life. Not only did man refuse this Tree of Life, he ate of the Tree that was forbidden and that would lead to death – both the first (physical) and the second (of the soul) (Matt.10:28). Notice that after he ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, man is barred from the Tree of Life so that he would not eat of it and “live forever” in a fallen state (Gen.3:22). The word “also” in this verse implies that he had not yet eaten from it.

God is righteous. We, in our world of injustice (even the so-called “Justice Departments” of the most civilized countries do injustice to the victim and relieve the criminal), are not used to the concept of an “all just” Judge. God is bound by His righteousness and death of the body and soul are man’s just deserts. But God is good and His essential nature is love. Thus, He also possesses the virtue of mercy. Unfortunately, justice and mercy are antagonists. They are mutually exclusive. If the Law requires the death penalty, any mercy is an overthrow of Law and justice. And whoever applies the Law fully cannot extend mercy.

So God devises a plan to overcome this. He must find a Man who is (i) perfect and without sin, and (ii) who volunteers to take the full weight of the Law upon Himself as a substitute for others (if He were forced to take the other man’s pain, this would again be an overthrow of justice). God finds His Man in His Son Jesus. The rest of the story you probably know. Jesus Christ, the innocent, perfect, Law abiding, obedient, loving Son voluntarily pays the horrendous and just price for all mankind and the creation.

Those who believed that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and who accepted His substitutionary death for their sins were “breathed into” on the night following Christ’s resurrection (Jn.20:22). All men who, past, present and future, believed, or would believe, in Jesus Christ, are included in this Resurrection Day rebirth of the human spirit (Rom.6:1-3; Eph.2:6).

2.
The soul of man is made up of his mind, his emotions and his will. In the bible man is regarded as a “soul” while an angel is regarded as a spirit (Ps.104:4; Gen.12:5; 46:27; Act.27:37 etc.). What he thinks, feels and decides is the man. Due to the fall of man, the flesh became the driving force behind his soul (Gen.6:12). He schemes, he feels and he decides what is best for his flesh at all costs. This is called the “lust of the flesh.” To be saved from this degraded condition he must do three things.

1. He must be born again. When the life of God enters his spirit, the divine energy to overcome his lusts is present for the first time. An unregenerate man has no way to overcome his flesh and is sold in slavery to it (Rom.6:6, 12; 7:14-25)
2. He must count his flesh as dead, not only theoretically but practically (Rom.6:1-6; Matt.16:24; Mk.8:34; Lk.9:23)
3. He must learn to continually turn to the source of divine energy within himself – the spirit. This is what is meant by becoming a “spiritual man.” It is not some guru in the mountains with a long white beard. It is a man who quietly and practically turns to his “inner man” in the most mundane of things.

This process of saving the soul cannot be achieved without discipline and purging. The whole Old and New Testaments are full of examples of God’s “purging” and “pruning.” Christians like to think that once they are born again that all will go well with them. But the contrary is the case. Sufferings, trials and failures will be their portion, allowed by God, for their good (e.g. Deut.8:1-5, 15-16; Jn.15:2; Heb.12:4-11; etc.).

3.
The body is saved by resurrection (1st Corinthians Chapter 15). Man has no say in this matter. He will die. At the point of death his spirit returns to God, his soul goes to a place called Hades (often translated as “the grave” or “hell”) to wait for resurrection. His body stinks and dissolves back to the elements on, or just below, the surface of the earth. In a specific order he will be raised from the dead (1st Cor.15:23). At resurrection, the spirit returns to the body from God, the soul comes up out of Hades, and at the moment of these two joining with a body, a man is resurrected (1st Ki.17:21-22; Lk.8:55). Because the bible regards man as a soul, and man’s soul is under the earth till Christ’s return, references to resurrection use the word “rise” (1st Thess.4:16). All men will be raised from the dead, some to everlasting bliss and some to everlasting perdition, for it is immediately after resurrection that final judgment comes (Heb.9:27; Dan.12:2 - The Jews, Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10 – the Christians, Matt.25:31-46 – those of the nations who survive the Great Tribulation, Rev.20:11-15 the rest of the nations who die before and after Christ’s return).

4.
Due to man’s rebellion in the Garden of Eden the ground was cursed (Gen.3:17). A further curse was put on the earth for the shedding of innocent blood (Gen.4:11). A further curse is placed on the earth for sexual offence (Lev.18:6-27). Yet another curse comes upon the earth for breaking the Law of Moses by Israel (Deut.28:18). Man is responsible for the breakdown of nature, not by industrial emissions as we hear in the unrighteous press today, but by rebellion to God’s precepts and commands, by the shedding of innocent blood and by sexual offence. When our Lord Jesus sets up His one-thousand year reign at the beginning of the next age, the stewardship of the earth is handed over to Jesus and His overcomers. They rule the nations with a rod of iron and God reverses the curses (Rev 2:27, 12:5, 19:15). This is how the earth will be saved by being put into the hand of Christ’s closest and most diligent followers (Rom.8:19-21).

4) How does the life of one who has been given salvation reflect that gift?
Only some parts of salvation are a gift viz., that of the spirit and body. The salvation of the soul must “worked out with fear and trembling” (Phil.2:12). And the salvation of the body is yet future. So I will answer for the Christians who both do, and do not, go the way of full salvation.

The life of a Christian who follows a path of full salvation adheres mostly to the approximately 2’400 commands of the New Testament. I say "mostly" for perfection is not granted as long as the flesh is present. You will notice virtues like humility, generosity, love for enemies and avoidance of defiling sins like adultery and theft. They will be regarded as “retiring” people as they avoid conflict and do not claim their rights.

The life of a Christian who decides not to deny himself, does not take up his cross daily and does not turn to the spirit, will be the same as the rest of the heathen. They tend towards strife, love of money, theft, egoism, sexual offences, excesses and even murder.

I hope this brief paper helps.