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Jeffinator
Sep 6th 2010, 01:35 AM
Why did God let John the Baptist die?

Brother Mark
Sep 6th 2010, 02:19 AM
God sees the big picture. He sees into eternity and he knows all the facts from the past, the future, and the present including all that is in the heart of everyone!

To this day, John the Baptist is enjoying his reward for being a martyr. It is possible that some of those folks that God healed died and went to hell. But John, he wasn't set free, and so, for all eternity, he enjoys the reward he received for enduring what he endured.

And of course, how many people in similar circumstances have been encouraged because of what they read concerning John?

Grace and peace,

Mark

jayne
Sep 6th 2010, 02:33 AM
This is what happens to great prophets sometimes. Jesus said so.

In Luke 1, when Gabriel came to Zechariah and told him that he would have a son (John the Baptizer) he told Zechariah several prophecies about this great man:



he would be a joy and delight as a son
many people were going to rejoice over his birth
he would never drink wine or anything fermented
he would be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth
he would bring many Israelites back to the Lord their God
he would be in the spirit and power of Elijah
he would turn the hearts of the fathers to their children
he would turn the disobedient to the wisdom of righteousness
and that he would make ready a people prepared for the Lord

Jesus said that there was no man like John the Baptist.

Great prophets like this have always seemed to meet with disdain from the world, from pagans and unfortunately, even the religious leadership. And sometimes in the Bible they even met with death.

Jesus, Himself, said so to the Pharisees.

Matthew 23:29-39
29-32"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You build granite tombs for your prophets and marble monuments for your saints. And you say that if you had lived in the days of your ancestors, no blood would have been on your hands. You protest too much! You're cut from the same cloth as those murderers, and daily add to the death count.

33-34"Snakes! Reptilian sneaks! Do you think you can worm your way out of this? Never have to pay the piper? It's on account of people like you that I send prophets and wise guides and scholars generation after generation—and generation after generation you treat them like dirt, greeting them with lynch mobs, hounding them with abuse.

35-36"You can't squirm out of this: Every drop of righteous blood ever spilled on this earth, beginning with the blood of that good man Abel right down to the blood of Zechariah, Barachiah's son, whom you murdered at his prayers, is on your head. All this, I'm telling you, is coming down on you, on your generation.

37-39"Jerusalem! Jerusalem! Murderer of prophets! Killer of the ones who brought you God's news! How often I've ached to embrace your children, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you wouldn't let me. And now you're so desolate, nothing but a ghost town. What is there left to say? Only this: I'm out of here soon. The next time you see me you'll say, 'Oh, God has blessed him! He's come, bringing God's rule!'"

The Pharisees didn't kill John the Baptist per se. But they didn't embrace his message. And they did nothing to protect him.

Sirus
Sep 6th 2010, 02:41 AM
It was part of the house of Israel's rejection of Christ, which of course was necessary to bring in the Gentiles.

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Kahtar
Sep 6th 2010, 02:47 AM
Why did God let John the Baptist die?
He lets us all die..............
Hebrews 9:27 KJV And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Sirus
Sep 6th 2010, 02:48 AM
The Pharisees didn't kill John the Baptist per se. But they didn't embrace his message. And they did nothing to protect him.EDIT: True -not correction -sorry!


Joh 5:35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
That changed.

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
John baptized the repentant.

jayne
Sep 6th 2010, 03:53 AM
Small correction.


Thank you for adding that clarification. :thumbsup:

(I meant that they didn't accept his saying that Jesus was the Lamb of God come to take away the sins of the world. I was unclear. I do that sometimes. :P)

Sirus
Sep 6th 2010, 03:53 AM
:lol: Sorry jayne. I corrected my post. I mis-read it to say 'they did embrace'. Just read it again and realized you had it right. So sorry! :B

Bladers
Sep 6th 2010, 05:05 AM
He set the stage for the arrival of Jesus and so his job was done.
His reward was waiting for him in heaven, no more point on staying on earth.

Sirus
Sep 6th 2010, 06:01 AM
So....suicide? God killed him? What exactly are you saying there Bladers? Determinism?

ThyWordIsTruth
Sep 6th 2010, 08:58 AM
Why did God let John the Baptist die?

No one would be able to answer that question for certain except God.

But if asked to guess, I'd say dying as a matyr is a great honour that will result in a person's eternal exaltated position in the kingdom to come, and it is a great honour to be given that privelege.

Jesus' words suggests that the extent of suffering one endures in this life for the cause of Christ will be proportional to his position in the kingdom to come.

Mat 20:21 And he said to her, "What do you want?" She said to him, "Say that these two sons of mine are to sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom."
Mat 20:22 Jesus answered, "You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am to drink?" They said to him, "We are able."
Mat 20:23 He said to them, "You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father."

Many of the OT prophets died terrible deaths, as did the NT apostles. They were sawn in two, beheaded, crucified, covered in tar and burned alive, beheaded, etc. If asked to make a guess, God counted John worthy to suffer and die for the cause, and so he will enjoy a priveleged position in eternity.

Servant89
Sep 6th 2010, 09:49 AM
Heb 11:35 ... and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Losing in this world for the sake of Christ means winning in eternity.

Shalom

notuptome
Sep 6th 2010, 11:38 AM
Precious in His sight is the death of His saints. Ps 116:15 Physical death is not the end for the saint of God. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Calypsis4
Sep 7th 2010, 01:08 PM
He lets us all die..............
Hebrews 9:27 KJV And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Amen. That is the truth. I was going to respond with those very words.

Best wishes.

Athanasius
Sep 7th 2010, 01:11 PM
Why did God let John the Baptist die?

I think it's because John the Baptist was expecting the same Messiah all Jews were (i.e. a political one). And that his death could have been avoidable.

Servant89
Sep 7th 2010, 09:03 PM
I think it's because John the Baptist was expecting the same Messiah all Jews were (i.e. a political one). And that his death could have been avoidable.

10 of the Apostles died martyrs and they knew who Messiah was.

Accepting Jesus the right way does not prevent us from dying at the hands of the enemy. Jesus said as he carried the cross:

Lk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

Shalom

Beckrl
Sep 7th 2010, 10:19 PM
Jesus acknowledged that the kingdom of heaven were under attack from the days of John the Baptist even until that day.(Matt.11:12) That violent men would do violence unto the kingdom of heaven. Now, who are the violent? The violent are Herod and those who worked with him to imprison John (Luke 3:19-20) and will soon behead him. They are attacking the kingdom of heaven by attacking the forerunner of the King and the first preacher who proclaimed that the kingdom of God was at hand. They took John "by force" and they will soon take the King, Jesus Christ as well.

Jesus continues and speaks of that generation to be like unto children sitting in the market (Matt.16-19) and continues in (Matt.12:34) O generation of vipers, how can ye being evil, speak good things? Jesus continuely speaks of that genertaion in which killed the prophets that God had sent them. (Matt. 23:30-36). This was done in voilence toward the kingdom of heaven in which John preached was to come.

Sirus
Sep 7th 2010, 11:30 PM
I think it's because John the Baptist was expecting the same Messiah all Jews were (i.e. a political one). And that his death could have been avoidable.I agree. Israel's leaders did not have to reject John and Jesus.

Sirus
Sep 8th 2010, 12:00 AM
Jesus acknowledged that the kingdom of heaven were under attack from the days of John the Baptist even until that day.(Matt.11:12) That violent men would do violence unto the kingdom of heaven. Now, who are the violent? The violent are Herod and those who worked with him to imprison John (Luke 3:19-20) and will soon behead him. They are attacking the kingdom of heaven by attacking the forerunner of the King and the first preacher who proclaimed that the kingdom of God was at hand. They took John "by force" and they will soon take the King, Jesus Christ as well.

Jesus continues and speaks of that generation to be like unto children sitting in the market (Matt.16-19) and continues in (Matt.12:34) O generation of vipers, how can ye being evil, speak good things? Jesus continuely speaks of that genertaion in which killed the prophets that God had sent them. (Matt. 23:30-36). This was done in voilence toward the kingdom of heaven in which John preached was to come.I agree with you, but just want to interject something, if I may. IMO, the violent are not just Herod or the Herodians, but also those that were married to the political system that was in place for their own person gain as well. Those that had something to lose with the arrival of John and Jesus. That would be the leaders of Israel whom John said "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:". It does not specifically say they were violent concerning John, I admit. However I could post a page of Jesus' words concerning the leaders of Israel and make a case. Kill prophets, vineyard parable -kill all including the heir, your father the devil -murderer.....
They were certainly considered violent in Jesus' death.

Mar 3:6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Act 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Beckrl
Sep 8th 2010, 12:09 AM
I agree with you, but just want to interject something, if I may. IMO, the violent are not just Herod or the Herodians, but also those that were married to the political system that was in place for their own person gain as well. Those that had something to lose with the arrival of John and Jesus. That would be the leaders of Israel whom John said "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:". It does not specifically say they were violent concerning John, I admit. However I could post a page of Jesus' words concerning the leaders of Israel and make a case. Kill prophets, vineyard parable -kill all including the heir, your father the devil -murderer.....
They were certainly considered violent in Jesus' death.

Mar 3:6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Act 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.




Sirus,
I totally agree, and thanks for bring that out.

Brother Mark
Sep 8th 2010, 01:05 AM
Sirus,
I totally agree, and thanks for bring that out.

It's an interesting study. The prodigal son wanted his inheritance early... he tried to take the kingdom by force. The elder son wouldn't go into the Father's house to celebrate one who repented... he tried to take the kingdom by force. The unjust steward gave away his masters money without approval hoping to receive mercy without submission to his master... that's taking the kingdom by force.

Today we see believers who want their inheritance early and it can lead to deep sin. We see beleivers who, like the elder brother, are angry that they are not treated to the fatted calf even though they have been "faithful" in service. They find fault with mercy on many levels. They are upset the kingdom is not run they way they wish it to be run. They try to take it by force. Then there are many lost people who want mercy outside of Christ, but it won't happen.

Even John the Baptist, who was the greatest of all the prophets, tried something! Jesus sent word back to him that basically said "Blessed are you if you are not offended in the way I run my business". John was upset, IMO, that Jesus was going to let him die. Having seen the Spirit of God descend upon Christ, he KNEW who he was. He wasn't doubting. He was pouting. IMO, he asked Jesus "Will you deliver me or do I need to search for another?" And remember, this question came after he had heard Jesus was raising people from the dead. John too tried to take the kingdom by force. He wanted it done HIS way if possible.

We all, on some level, try to take the kingdom of God by force. But it doesn't work that way. Let us heed the words of Christ "Blessed are you if you are not offended in me." I have been offended at God before and wanted to take the kingdom by force. It did not turn out so well! Thank God for his loving kindness and mercy though.

Grace and peace,

Mark

Athanasius
Sep 8th 2010, 01:32 AM
10 of the Apostles died martyrs and they knew who Messiah was.

Accepting Jesus the right way does not prevent us from dying at the hands of the enemy. Jesus said as he carried the cross:

Lk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

Shalom

Sure, but that's not what I said.