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knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 09:23 AM
Jesus said in John 10:30 I and Father are one.

James 1:27 Pure religeon and undefiled before God and the Father is this,
To visit the fatherless and widows in their affiction, and to keep himself
unspotted from the world.

If what Jesus said that 'I and the Father are one' is true and I consider it
to be true because he was the one riding in a white horse,and he that sat upon him was called Faithfull and True, and in righteousness he make judge and make war.

Who will be our God and Father mentioned in James 1:27?

Firstfruits
Oct 15th 2010, 02:18 PM
Jesus said in John 10:30 I and Father are one.

James 1:27 Pure religeon and undefiled before God and the Father is this,
To visit the fatherless and widows in their affiction, and to keep himself
unspotted from the world.

If what Jesus said that 'I and the Father are one' is true and I consider it
to be true because he was the one riding in a white horse,and he that sat upon him was called Faithfull and True, and in righteousness he make judge and make war.

Who will be our God and Father mentioned in James 1:27?

It depends on the meaning.

Jn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Jn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Firstfruits

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 02:41 PM
It depends on the meaning.

Jn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Jn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Firstfruits

Okay, you're right but it did not answer my question, if I and the Father are one; who will be the "God and Father" mentioned in James 1:27?

Firstfruits
Oct 15th 2010, 02:47 PM
Okay, you're right but it did not answer my question, if I and the Father are one; who will be the "God and Father" mentioned in James 1:27?

I believe it does since we are one with Jesus as he is one with God.

Firstfruits

MoreMercy
Oct 15th 2010, 03:28 PM
The Son has the spirit of the Father, they are of one accord.

We, when we are in obedience to Father's word have the spirit of the Son, we are of one accord with the Son, so we by love/obedience have the Holy Spirit of both the Son and His Father.

Yes it is that simple... to me
Father bless.

Vhayes
Oct 15th 2010, 03:32 PM
God the Father is the architect of all things
God the Son is the builder of all things
God the Holy Spirit is the maintainer of all things

It's all "one" but there are different aspects to it BEING one.

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 04:00 PM
I believe it does since we are one with Jesus as he is one with God.

Firstfruits

So, if we are one with Jesus, and Jesus is one with God, do you mean that we are the God and Father? do I understand you right?

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 04:01 PM
The Son has the spirit of the Father, they are of one accord.

We, when we are in obedience to Father's word have the spirit of the Son, we are of one accord with the Son, so we by love/obedience have the Holy Spirit of both the Son and His Father.

Yes it is that simple... to me
Father bless.

Okay, you are right, but dig it deeper.
Father bless.

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 04:06 PM
God the Father is the architect of all things
God the Son is the builder of all things
God the Holy Spirit is the maintainer of all things

It's all "one" but there are different aspects to it BEING one.

All right, but who among them is God and Father? as an answer to OP.
Thanks.

Vhayes
Oct 15th 2010, 04:13 PM
I don't understand what you are asking. God the Father is God the Father. He and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all one God in three distinct expressions.

God the Father planned.

There is no analogy that will ever be 100% accurate.

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 04:46 PM
I don't understand what you are asking. God the Father is God the Father. He and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all one God in three distinct expressions.

God the Father planned.

There is no analogy that will ever be 100% accurate.

Here are some parallel or analog about my OP.
John 14: 9-10,20 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet
hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how
sayest thou then, Show us thee Father.
v.10 Believe thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that
I speak not of my self: but the Father that dwelleth in me; he doeth the works.
v.20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Rev.3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Hope this help.

Butch5
Oct 15th 2010, 05:00 PM
Jesus said in John 10:30 I and Father are one.

James 1:27 Pure religeon and undefiled before God and the Father is this,
To visit the fatherless and widows in their affiction, and to keep himself
unspotted from the world.

If what Jesus said that 'I and the Father are one' is true and I consider it
to be true because he was the one riding in a white horse,and he that sat upon him was called Faithfull and True, and in righteousness he make judge and make war.

Who will be our God and Father mentioned in James 1:27?

Both Jesus and the Father are God (Deity, Divine).

Br. Barnabas
Oct 15th 2010, 05:06 PM
Jesus said in John 10:30 I and Father are one.

James 1:27 Pure religeon and undefiled before God and the Father is this,
To visit the fatherless and widows in their affiction, and to keep himself
unspotted from the world.

If what Jesus said that 'I and the Father are one' is true and I consider it
to be true because he was the one riding in a white horse,and he that sat upon him was called Faithfull and True, and in righteousness he make judge and make war.

Who will be our God and Father mentioned in James 1:27?

What translation are you using. The issue you are having can most likely be solved by looking at a different translation for exmaple, here is James 1:27 in:
NIV: Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
NASB: Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
NLT: Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.
KJV: Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
ESV: Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
NKJV: Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
TNIV: Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

So it looks that only the KJV and NKJV are the only transltions that use this wording. So my suggestion if you cannot or do not use the Greek is to use a lot of different translations since no one translation is perfect or best. So if we look at the other translations you question and problem is solved, because they use God our Father, or God the Father. So it is not God and our Father but God our Father or God the Father. So that there is not a God and a Father but they are the same being.

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 05:07 PM
Both Jesus and the Father are God (Deity, Divine).

Right, you have a big points; are they one or two?

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 05:15 PM
What translation are you using. The issue you are having can most likely be solved by looking at a different translation for exmaple, here is James 1:27 in:
NIV: Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
NASB: Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
NLT: Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.
KJV: Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
ESV: Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
NKJV: Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
TNIV: Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

So it looks that only the KJV and NKJV are the only transltions that use this wording. So my suggestion if you cannot or do not use the Greek is to use a lot of different translations since no one translation is perfect or best. So if we look at the other translations you question and problem is solved, because they use God our Father, or God the Father. So it is not God and our Father but God our Father or God the Father. So that there is not a God and a Father but they are the same being.

I used NKJV but all the translation you give is almost of the same with a little bit difference but God and Father which was my OP in no way was not altered.
For me being born in a third world country, maybe do not need to learn Greek language because the Comforter which is the Holy Spirit shall teach us the truth.
Your last sentence are near the right answer.
Thank you.

Vhayes
Oct 15th 2010, 05:50 PM
Knox, what are you asking? If God the Father is God the Son?

If you think Jesus and the Father are the same "being", then Who did Jesus pray to in the garden when He said:
Matthew 26
39 - He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."

MoreMercy
Oct 15th 2010, 06:31 PM
Howdy again knox knox :wave:

I have always and still do have trouble understanding the trinity doctrine.
I'll use what Vhayes posted to help me explain how I grip the trinity doctrine for me to personally understand it:

All three: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, are GOD.
But, GOD uses three ways to reveal Himself to man:

GOD reveals Himself to man through the Father......... The Father is the designer or architect of all things.
GOD reveals Himself to man through the Son............. The Son is the builder and redeemer of all things.
GOD reveals Himself to man through the Holy Spirit... The Holy Spirit is the maintainer and comforter of all things.
They are 'all three one in spirit' as GOD.
I hope that helps.


Father blesses.

Butch5
Oct 15th 2010, 07:08 PM
Right, you have a big points; are they one or two?

Two, God the Father and God the Son. They are both divine, deity, Royalty.

Servant89
Oct 15th 2010, 07:57 PM
My body is typing right now and what he is typing is true... me (the body) and my soul are one. That does not mean that my body = my soul. They are two parts of me, but they are one. My body types what my soul tells it to type. God the son is to God the father what my body is to my soul. My body is the house for 100% of my soul and 100% of my spirit. Likewise ...

Col 2:9 For in him (The Son) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Shalom

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 09:13 PM
Knox, what are you asking? If God the Father is God the Son?

If you think Jesus and the Father are the same "being", then Who did Jesus pray to in the garden when He said:
Matthew 26
39 - He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."

No, I'm not asking if God the Father is God the Son, please kindly refer to OP Jesus
said 'I and the Father are one' what I'm asking if what Jesus said is true that
I and the Father are one; who are God and the Father mentioned inJas.1:27?

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 09:35 PM
[QUOTE=MoreMercy;2527623]Howdy again knox knox :wave:

I have always and still do have trouble understanding the trinity doctrine.
I'll use what Vhayes posted to help me explain how I grip the trinity doctrine for me to personally understand it:

All three: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, are GOD.
But, GOD uses three ways to reveal Himself to man:

GOD reveals Himself to man through the Father......... The Father is the designer or architect of all things.
GOD reveals Himself to man through the Son............. The Son is the builder and redeemer of all things.
GOD reveals Himself to man through the Holy Spirit... The Holy Spirit is the maintainer and comforter of all things.
They are 'all three one in spirit' as GOD.
I hope that helps.

I agree that God reveal or manifest to us in three distinct ways as Father,Son and Holy Ghost but in truth there is only one God.
Is.43:10-13 Ye are my witness saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen, that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither after me.
v.11 I, even I, the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
v.12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have showed, when there was no
strange god among you; therefore ye are my witness, saith the LORD, that I am God.
v.13 Yea, before this day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it.

Hope this clarify and helps.
Father bless

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 09:40 PM
Two, God the Father and God the Son. They are both divine, deity, Royalty.

Good,and that is true and right but still did not answer if who is God and the Father; if what Jesus said is true, that I and the Father are one.
Thanks,

Vhayes
Oct 15th 2010, 09:41 PM
No, I'm not asking if God the Father is God the Son, please kindly refer to OP Jesus
said 'I and the Father are one' what I'm asking if what Jesus said is true that
I and the Father are one; who are God and the Father mentioned inJas.1:27?

James 1
27 - Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

The Father is our God and also our Father. I still am not seeing what you are asking.

A house is made of many components; windows, walls, floors, doors, etc. They are one.

A team is composed of several "members" but they work together for the ultimate goal. They are also called THE team, not the Tom, Dick and Harry.

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 09:49 PM
My body is typing right now and what he is typing is true... me (the body) and my soul are one. That does not mean that my body = my soul. They are two parts of me, but they are one. My body types what my soul tells it to type. God the son is to God the father what my body is to my soul. My body is the house for 100% of my soul and 100% of my spirit. Likewise ...

Col 2:9 For in him (The Son) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Shalom

Your analog show three distinct parts of a man; body, life and soul.
Col.2:9 For in him (the Son) dwelleth all the fulness of Godhead bodily. right, now who was God and the Father, if what Jesus said is true that "I and the Father are one?

knox knox
Oct 15th 2010, 11:20 PM
That's a bright idea and I'll add some more.
Jn.17:17 Sanctify them through the truth, thy word is truth.
Heb.4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Is.28: 9-10 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawned from
the breast.
v.10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line,
line upon line; here a little, and there a little.
The word which is dividing asunder where distributed and must be gathered and redistributed and gathered to attain the truth.
Ps. 119:160 The word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous
judgements endureth forever.
Ps. 149:6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword
in their hand.

MoreMercy
Oct 16th 2010, 12:31 AM
I agree that God reveal or manifest to us in three distinct ways as Father,Son and Holy Ghost but in truth there is only one God.
Is.43:10-13 Ye are my witness saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen, that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither after me.
v.11 I, even I, the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
v.12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have showed, when there was no
strange god among you; therefore ye are my witness, saith the LORD, that I am God.
v.13 Yea, before this day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it.

Hope this clarify and helps.
Father bless

knox knox, I follow you in what Isaiah is saying to the children of Abraham, and to us now today at the same time.

But, please allow me to ask you again:
The Father, the Son and their Spirit, they are 'all three one in spirit' as GOD... yes, or no ?

Father bless.

knox knox
Oct 16th 2010, 04:02 AM
James 1
27 - Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

The Father is our God and also our Father. I still am not seeing what you are asking.

A house is made of many components; windows, walls, floors, doors, etc. They are one.

A team is composed of several "members" but they work together for the ultimate goal. They are also called THE team, not the Tom, Dick and Harry.

Hi Vhayes,
You had hit the goal The Father is our God and also our Father. We just need higher esteem of knowing the glory of the Father.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I'm not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and
your Father, and to my God, and your God.
Jn.17:5 And now, O Father, glory thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jn.6:62 What if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
1 Jn.5:19-20 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
v.20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and given us understanding, that
we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. THIS IS THE TRUE GOD, AND ETERNAL LIFE.

1 Cor .15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son
also himself subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Zech.14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be
one LORD, and his name one.

Servant89
Oct 16th 2010, 12:59 PM
Your analog show three distinct parts of a man; body, life and soul.
Col.2:9 For in him (the Son) dwelleth all the fulness of Godhead bodily. right, now who was God and the Father, if what Jesus said is true that "I and the Father are one?

No no no. I did not say "life" referring to the Holy Spirit, cults do that. The Holy Spirit is a person. You are confusing "are one" with "are the same".

In that particular verse when it says God, it is referring to the Holy Spirit. That verse mentions the trinity talking about the Son doing something that is in line with the will of the Holy Spirit and the will of the Father, but it refers to the Holy Spirit as God. The three PERSONS of the trinity are God. The 3 persons of the trinity are part of the ONE GOD.

The Bible clearly indicates there is only one God (see Gal 3:20; 1Cor 8:4; Deu 4:35,39; Deu 6:4; Deu 32:39; 1King 8:60; 2King 5:15; Psalm 86:10; Isa 45:5,6,14,18,21,22; Isa 43:10; Isa 44:6,8; 1Tim 2:5). There has never been any other god before him, there are no gods besides him now, and there will never be any God besides him in the future (Isa 43:10).

ISA 43:10 You are my witnesses, says the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

All other gods, apart from the One True God, are called idols in the Bible (1Chr 16:26; Psalm 96:5).

The Bible clearly declares that the Father of Jesus is God (see 1Cor 8:6; Eph 4:6; Eph 1:7; 2Cor 1:3; Luke 18:19; 2Cor 13:14; & Act 10:38).

The Bible also says that Jesus is God (see 1John 5:10; 2John 1:9; Isa 9:6; John 8:24-27; John 1:1; 1Tim 3:16; 1Joh 5:20; John 10:30; John 14:8-9; 1Cor 15:45-47; Luke 8:39; Heb 1:8-9; Mat 1:23; Phil 2:6 and Psa 45:6-7).

The Bible says the Holy Spirit is God (Act 5:3-4; Gal 1:4; Mat 12:31; 1Th 1:3; Eph 5:20; 1Th 3:11; Col 2:2; Col 3:17; Rev 1:5-6).

And the following verses say that Jesus is one with the Father (John 14:8-10; John 10:30; 1John 5:7; John 12:44; John 15:23; John 5:23; John 8:24-27; Zec 13:7 & Jer 50:44).

Shalom

MoreMercy
Oct 16th 2010, 01:32 PM
knox knox
I follow you in what Isaiah is saying to the children of Abraham, and to us now today at the same time.

:hmm:
But, please allow me to ask you again:
The Father, the Son and their Spirit, they are 'all three one in spirit' as GOD... yes, or no ?


I will aslo agree that God can, will and does reveal Him self to men through us who abide in GOD's light and truth, but ONLY through that same light and truth, meaning:
We who walk under His light and truth do not become GOD, but become His vessels of light and truth to our fellows.
If you can or will not agree with me on this, then personally I can not agree that you and I have the same Father, period.

Father bless.

Dani H
Oct 16th 2010, 02:06 PM
So what you're saying is that you don't believe in the Trinity?

Are you of the Oneness persuasion?

Servant89
Oct 16th 2010, 04:51 PM
The Son is a different person from the Father. That is how they can be two witnesses at the same time. It is written:

John 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

That is why in Isaiah 41 God is singular except when he has to act as a witness, then he becomes plural.

Isa 41:1 Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to judgment.
2 Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow.
3 He pursued them, and passed safely; even by the way that he had not gone with his feet.
4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
5 The isles saw it, and feared; the ends of the earth were afraid, drew near, and came.
6 They helped every one his neighbour; and every one said to his brother, Be of good courage.
7 So the carpenter encouraged the goldsmith, and he that smootheth with the hammer him that smote the anvil, saying, It is ready for the sodering: and he fastened it with nails, that it should not be moved.
8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
9 Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.
10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.
11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.
12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.
13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.
14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD (the Father), and thy redeemer (the Son), the Holy One of Israel (the Holy Ghost).
15 Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff.
16 Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel.
17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
18 I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.
19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the ****tah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:
20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.
21 Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
22 Let them bring them forth, and show US what shall happen: let them show the former things, what they be, that WE may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare US things for to come.
23 Show the things that are to come hereafter, that WE may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that WE may be dismayed, and behold it together.
24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.
25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.
26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that WE may know? and beforetime, that WE may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that showeth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.
27 The first shall say to Zion, Behold, behold them: and I will give to Jerusalem one that bringeth good tidings.
28 For I beheld, and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor, that, when I asked of them, could answer a word.
29 Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion.

God is singular in that chapter, except when he has to act as a witness, then he becomes plural.

Shalom

PneumaPsucheSoma
Oct 16th 2010, 05:26 PM
My body is typing right now and what he is typing is true... me (the body) and my soul are one. That does not mean that my body = my soul. They are two parts of me, but they are one. My body types what my soul tells it to type. God the son is to God the father what my body is to my soul. My body is the house for 100% of my soul and 100% of my spirit. Likewise ...

Col 2:9 For in him (The Son) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Shalom

Yep. Distinct elements of your singular person. Well said. God's image and likeness.

Butch5
Oct 16th 2010, 10:26 PM
Good,and that is true and right but still did not answer if who is God and the Father; if what Jesus said is true, that I and the Father are one.
Thanks,

Hi Knox knox,

The issue here is of a different aspect. When the Scriptures speak of the Father and Jesus, there are different references.

There are three aspects of the Trinity relative to Scripture, they are, nature, personal attributes, and order. Look at nature, Jesus is of the same nature as the Father, just as a child is of the same nature as his parent. The child is no more or no less human than the parent, they are equally human. So it is with Jesus and the Father, they are equally divine, Jesus being the Son of the Father is no more or less divine than the Father. So when the Scriptures speak of Jesus being equal with God, they are speaking of this aspect of nature, Jesus said, "I and the Father are one," this is speaking of nature. Now let's look at personal attributes, the Father alone is unbegotten, Jesus is the only begotten God (deity), this doesn't mean He is less divine than the Father, It is just a personal attribute of Jesus. Another personal attribute would be omniscience, Jesus said of the day of His return "no one knows the day or the hour but the Father," So we see that there is at least one thing that the Father knows that Jesus doesn't. Does this mean that Jesus is less divine than the Father? Not at all. Now let's look at order, Jesus is the second person of the trinity, The Father is the source of the trinity, the Son proceeds from the Father. This is how Jesus can say " the Father is greater than I" or " all authority has been given to me" because the Father is above all. So when we read the Scriptures we need to discern what is being spoken of, nature, personal attributes, or order. Many people read Jesus statement "the Father is greater than I" and think that somehow Jesus is a lesser God (deity) but this is speaking of order not nature, regarding nature they are equal. I know this is somewhat simplistic but I hope it helps clear up some of the confusion.

knox knox
Oct 17th 2010, 03:35 AM
knox knox, I follow you in what Isaiah is saying to the children of Abraham, and to us now today at the same time.

But, please allow me to ask you again:
The Father, the Son and their Spirit, they are 'all three one in spirit' as GOD... yes, or no ?

Father bless.

Howdy brother MoreMercy,
Sorry, for delayed reply on your post because we had bad wheather here with strong lightning/thunderstorm accompanied by heavy rain, lightning struck some
electric transformer and it takes couple of hour before power is restore.

About your question in Trinity here is my record as per scripture.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and the three are one.
John15:26 But when the Comforter (Holy Spirit) is come, whom I (Word) will send to you from the Father (God the Father) even the Spirit of truth,(Holy Spirit which proceedth from the Father,(God the Father) he shall testify of me.(the Word).

Is this enough? I hope this clear all.

Father bless.

MoreMercy
Oct 17th 2010, 03:44 AM
Howdy brother MoreMercy,

About your question in Trinity here is my record as per scripture.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and the three are one.
John15:26 But when the Comforter (Holy Spirit) is come, whom I (Word) will send to you from the Father (God the Father) even the Spirit of truth,(Holy Spirit which proceedth from the Father,(God the Father) he shall testify of me.(the Word).

Is this enough? I hope this clear all.

Father bless.

That is good enough for me, thank you good servant of my Master. :pp

Father blesses.

knox knox
Oct 17th 2010, 03:54 AM
knox knox
I follow you in what Isaiah is saying to the children of Abraham, and to us now today at the same time.

:hmm:
But, please allow me to ask you again:
The Father, the Son and their Spirit, they are 'all three one in spirit' as GOD... yes, or no ?


I will aslo agree that God can, will and does reveal Him self to men through us who abide in GOD's light and truth, but ONLY through that same light and truth, meaning:
We who walk under His light and truth do not become GOD, but become His vessels of light and truth to our fellows.
If you can or will not agree with me on this, then personally I can not agree that you and I have the same Father, period.

Father bless.
Hi Brother MoreMercy,
I think you are profusedly confuse by your words in this post and I don't know why.
you are right and I shall not refute your belief that we must walk under His ligh
and truth and become His vessel of light and truth to our fellows. I agree!! But who told you that we will become God? And by this wrong charge with me, you are ready to reprobate me ???; just a reminder...If they receive my words, they will receive your words too.

Kindly please check in any of my post that I had told to any one doctrine that we shall become God.

Thank you and Father bless.

Vhayes
Oct 17th 2010, 03:55 AM
Knox - I have a question for you as well -

What do these verses mean to you in light of the other verse you posted from John?
Titus 2
12 - instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,

13 - looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

14 - who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

MoreMercy
Oct 17th 2010, 04:21 AM
Hi Brother MoreMercy,
I think you are profusedly confuse by your words in this post and I don't know why.
you are right and I shall not refute your belief that we must walk under His ligh
and truth and become His vessel of light and truth to our fellows. I agree!! But who told you that we will become God? And by this wrong charge with me, you are ready to reprobate me ???; just a reminder...If they receive my words, they will receive your words too.

Kindly please check in any of my post that I had told to any one doctrine that we shall become God.

Thank you and Father bless.
Please forgive me for testing you brother but I do test all things until I confirm what seems to be, is really what is. I only do that because of what Father teaches us to do in His word. (test all things)

To be honest and to the point, this is why I tested you: from what I have read on this thread, you seem to me to avoid answering directly with common words yes or no, to questions directed at the trinity doctrine. UNTIL your last reply to me.

You do try to answer with scripture, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it seems to me again that those scripture you answer with still miss the mark of directly answering the questions about the doctrine of the trinity. UNTIL your last reply to me. And that confuses me, I took into account the language barrier between me and you but still have not seen you answer that question directly.
UNTIL your last reply to me even though again you answered with scripture: "1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and the three are one."
I accept that as your answer now.

I do not think you are reprobate !
Again, please forgive me for testing you brother, but I do test all things until I confirm what seems to be, is really what is. And again, I only did that because of what Father teaches us to do in His word.
And, again I know there is also a language barrier between you and me and I see/believe now that to be the main cause of my testing you.

Again, please forgive me ?
Father bless.

knox knox
Oct 17th 2010, 04:32 AM
No no no. I did not say "life" referring to the Holy Spirit, cults do that. The Holy Spirit is a person. You are confusing "are one" with "are the same".

In that particular verse when it says God, it is referring to the Holy Spirit. That verse mentions the trinity talking about the Son doing something that is in line with the will of the Holy Spirit and the will of the Father, but it refers to the Holy Spirit as God. The three PERSONS of the trinity are God. The 3 persons of the trinity are part of the ONE GOD.

The Bible clearly indicates there is only one God (see Gal 3:20; 1Cor 8:4; Deu 4:35,39; Deu 6:4; Deu 32:39; 1King 8:60; 2King 5:15; Psalm 86:10; Isa 45:5,6,14,18,21,22; Isa 43:10; Isa 44:6,8; 1Tim 2:5). There has never been any other god before him, there are no gods besides him now, and there will never be any God besides him in the future (Isa 43:10).

ISA 43:10 You are my witnesses, says the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

All other gods, apart from the One True God, are called idols in the Bible (1Chr 16:26; Psalm 96:5).

The Bible clearly declares that the Father of Jesus is God (see 1Cor 8:6; Eph 4:6; Eph 1:7; 2Cor 1:3; Luke 18:19; 2Cor 13:14; & Act 10:38).

The Bible also says that Jesus is God (see 1John 5:10; 2John 1:9; Isa 9:6; John 8:24-27; John 1:1; 1Tim 3:16; 1Joh 5:20; John 10:30; John 14:8-9; 1Cor 15:45-47; Luke 8:39; Heb 1:8-9; Mat 1:23; Phil 2:6 and Psa 45:6-7).

The Bible says the Holy Spirit is God (Act 5:3-4; Gal 1:4; Mat 12:31; 1Th 1:3; Eph 5:20; 1Th 3:11; Col 2:2; Col 3:17; Rev 1:5-6).

And the following verses say that Jesus is one with the Father (John 14:8-10; John 10:30; 1John 5:7; John 12:44; John 15:23; John 5:23; John 8:24-27; Zec 13:7 & Jer 50:44).

Shalom

Hi Servant,
Almost every thing you quote are true and right and I need not to post comment except from your opening:No, no, no, life, refering to Holy Spirit:

Jn. 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of man
Jn. 1: 9 That was the true Light; which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Jn.1:11 He come to his own, and his own receive him not.
Jn.12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be children of light.
These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
This in parallel to what was written in Is.45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest
thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour..

You had learn many things but, you missed the most important the life that was dwelling in you; the very reason why you exsisted here on earth.

Thank you.

knox knox
Oct 17th 2010, 05:17 AM
So what you're saying is that you don't believe in the Trinity?

Are you of the Oneness persuasion?

Howdy DaniHansen,
Sorry for late reply because we had power failure here in our place.
I do believe in Trinity doctrine because with out them we cannot know
who is God. I hereby respectfully requesting you to read my quote to MoreMercy in post# 34 of this thread.
About your question if I am of the Oneness persuasion. NO and will not.
But Godwilling I really and that is my spiritual perspective after this life on earth to be in Oneness of our Father on the next life in heaven.

Hope all will be clear by this.

Amos_with_goats
Oct 17th 2010, 05:26 AM
:pray:
I am thankful that You Lord, lead us in all Truth.

There is no part of Your Word that is hidden from us when we seek You, Your Son, and Your Spirit lead us in Truth for You are Truth and as You said in Your Word...

... a house divided against its self can not stand..


Mark 3:25 (King James Version)

And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

knox knox
Oct 17th 2010, 07:03 AM
Hi Knox knox,

The issue here is of a different aspect. When the Scriptures speak of the Father and Jesus, there are different references.

There are three aspects of the Trinity relative to Scripture, they are, nature, personal attributes, and order. Look at nature, Jesus is of the same nature as the Father, just as a child is of the same nature as his parent. The child is no more or no less human than the parent, they are equally human. So it is with Jesus and the Father, they are equally divine, Jesus being the Son of the Father is no more or less divine than the Father. So when the Scriptures speak of Jesus being equal with God, they are speaking of this aspect of nature, Jesus said, "I and the Father are one," this is speaking of nature. Now let's look at personal attributes, the Father alone is unbegotten, Jesus is the only begotten God (deity), this doesn't mean He is less divine than the Father, It is just a personal attribute of Jesus. Another personal attribute would be omniscience, Jesus said of the day of His return "no one knows the day or the hour but the Father," So we see that there is at least one thing that the Father knows that Jesus doesn't. Does this mean that Jesus is less divine than the Father? Not at all. Now let's look at order, Jesus is the second person of the trinity, The Father is the source of the trinity, the Son proceeds from the Father. This is how Jesus can say " the Father is greater than I" or " all authority has been given to me" because the Father is above all. So when we read the Scriptures we need to discern what is being spoken of, nature, personal attributes, or order. Many people read Jesus statement "the Father is greater than I" and think that somehow Jesus is a lesser God (deity) but this is speaking of order not nature, regarding nature they are equal. I know this is somewhat simplistic but I hope it helps clear up some of the confusion.
Hi Butch5,
Yes, I agree that the scripture speak of the Father and Jesus have different references.But their differeces was not the topic of my OP but if what Jesus said in Jn.10:30 is true that I and my Father are one? Who shall be the God and the Father mentioned in James 1:27 ?

I try to share this to enable us to have higher esteem of knewing about the truth in the words God.
The Holy Scripture hast been here on earth for almost 2000 years and we continually discussing on this board almost all aspect related to God hence up to now we cannot reach to final conclusion in lieu of what was written in 2Tim.3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Heb.1-4 God at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets.
v.2 Hath in this last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
v.3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.
v.4 Being much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtain a more excellent name than they.

Does anyone know if what was this excellent name that Jesus inherited when he sat at the right hand of the Father? this is in reference in what he pomise in Rev.2:17 and Rev.3:12
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and I willive him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Rev.3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will
write upon him my new name.

Hope this will guide you in learning the truth about the words of Lord Jesus.

Thank you.

knox knox
Oct 17th 2010, 07:29 AM
:pray:
I am thankful that You Lord, lead us in all Truth.

There is no part of Your Word that is hidden from us when we seek You, Your Son, and Your Spirit lead us in Truth for You are Truth and as You said in Your Word...

... a house divided against its self can not stand..


Mark 3:25 (King James Version)

And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Amen...
For this divine prayer and excellent post.
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Father bless.

PneumaPsucheSoma
Oct 17th 2010, 07:34 AM
Please forgive me for testing you brother but I do test all things until I confirm what seems to be, is really what is. I only do that because of what Father teaches us to do in His word. (test all things)

To be honest and to the point, this is why I tested you: from what I have read on this thread, you seem to me to avoid answering directly with common words yes or no, to questions directed at the trinity doctrine. UNTIL your last reply to me.

You do try to answer with scripture, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it seems to me again that those scripture you answer with still miss the mark of directly answering the questions about the doctrine of the trinity. UNTIL your last reply to me. And that confuses me, I took into account the language barrier between me and you but still have not seen you answer that question directly.
UNTIL your last reply to me even though again you answered with scripture: "1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and the three are one."
I accept that as your answer now.

I do not think you are reprobate !
Again, please forgive me for testing you brother, but I do test all things until I confirm what seems to be, is really what is. And again, I only did that because of what Father teaches us to do in His word.
And, again I know there is also a language barrier between you and me and I see/believe now that to be the main cause of my testing you.

Again, please forgive me ?
Father bless.

Hi MM,

I affirm that Jesus is pre-existent, uncreated, and divine; but I don't hold to the creedal trinity doctrine. Do you then consider us as not having the same Father?

PneumaPsucheSoma
Oct 17th 2010, 07:37 AM
Hi Butch5,
Yes, I agree that the scripture speak of the Father and Jesus have different references.But their differeces was not the topic of my OP but if what Jesus said in Jn.10:30 is true that I and my Father are one? Who shall be the God and the Father mentioned in James 1:27 ?

I try to share this to enable us to have higher esteem of knewing about the truth in the words God.
The Holy Scripture hast been here on earth for almost 2000 years and we continually discussing on this board almost all aspect related to God hence up to now we cannot reach to final conclusion in lieu of what was written in 2Tim.3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Heb.1-4 God at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets.
v.2 Hath in this last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
v.3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.
v.4 Being much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtain a more excellent name than they.

Does anyone know if what was this excellent name that Jesus inherited when he sat at the right hand of the Father? this is in reference in what he pomise in Rev.2:17 and Rev.3:12
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and I willive him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Rev.3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will
write upon him my new name.

Hope this will guide you in learning the truth about the words of Lord Jesus.

Thank you.

He is the Divine Expression of Divine Content; Ho Logos of the Rhema.

My white stone is engraved.

knox knox
Oct 17th 2010, 08:54 AM
Knox - I have a question for you as well -

What do these verses mean to you in light of the other verse you posted from John?
Titus 2
12 - instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,

13 - looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

14 - who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

Hi Vhayes,
Rom. 8:1-15 There is therefore no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
v.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
v.3 For what the law could not do, in that was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.
v.4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh; but after the Spirit.
v.5 For they that after the flesh do not mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
v.6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
v.7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for is not subject to the law of
God, neither in deed can be.
v.8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot pleased God.
v.9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell
in you. Now if any manhave not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
v.10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dea because of sin: but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
v.11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that
raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit
that dwelleth in you.
v.12 Therefore brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
v.13 For if you live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds if the body, ye shall live.
v.14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not receivedthe spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received
the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry,Abba,Father.

Hope this answer your question.

Father bless.

knox knox
Oct 17th 2010, 12:19 PM
Brother PPS,
Your words are strange to me because I do not know the meaning of; Ho Logos of the Rhema.

Your white stone is engraved. where?

MoreMercy
Oct 17th 2010, 12:52 PM
Hi MM,

I affirm that Jesus is pre-existent, uncreated, and divine; but I don't hold to the creedal trinity doctrine. Do you then consider us as not having the same Father?
Greetings PneumaPsucheSoma.

I am grateful that I finally get an opportunity to discuss with you our Creator's plan of eternal restoration to fellowship with Him self.
I have observed your insight on these forums and I have admired your thoughts, words and attitudes to your fellows here, but have never had the opportunity to discuss one on one any of the subjects that I have saw you post on here yet.

That said now, my post that you quoted. I know that you know that it was posted directly to knox knox
So, I chose the words in said post because of the history of knox knox's and my previous communication in this and a few other threads here on BF.
I will be happy though and I am actually even eager to respond to your question to, but I would first like to give knox knox time to respond to it first because in it is an apology to him from myself.





BUT: I desire to and will respond to your question here but again, only after knox knox does first. Or you could start another thread with that content and even re-post the quote of mine there too, and I will be happy to respond there in a more timely manner, but either way, which ever you choose, I will respond to your question.

In the mean time I want to share with you a slightly edited post of mine from another thread here which may or may not give you an insight into my understanding of Father's children.
Then after or if you read it, and still desire my answer to your question, I will answer you, whether you choose to re-phrase the question or leave it as it is now... I will respond.

Here is the slightly edited post of mine that I hope you will read before I answer your question. Thank you PneumaPsucheSoma and I am glad to finally get a chance to discuss a thing with you, it is and will be my pleasure.


I see it as:
When I receive the deposit of His Holy Spirit I am adopted into the vine/Israel, and the root of that vine is Christ Jesus.

I was not adopted into being Gods child but adopted into the vine, I was already His child unless I have adopted another father by adopting that other fathers methods and paths in my daily living/path, just as Cain did.

My Father's only begotten Son is the tree of life... The other tree is the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Even though I am Gods child even before I received the deposit of His Holy Spirit, my mind and soul were seared by my knowledge of good and evil because I was born into a fallen world.
However when I received that deposit I was healed of that sear and am being transformed by Christ good merciful works transformed from grace to more graces from mercy to more mercies, and I am adopted by Christ work into the vine which Christ is the root of.

I have always been a child of God but now adopted into the vine I am no longer separated/lost from Him my Father.
But, if I choose to follow that other father, then I am not Gods child any longer, not by Gods action or choice but by my own choice of following the paths and methods of that other father <---- the murderer the one who not just knows of good and evil but lives, operates and manipulates in that knowledge. With that other father as my father if I was in the vine I will also be cut off from the vine and will not have any fellowship with God here on earth or in the eternity.

If any of us choose the other father then we are titled by God as children of the devil, but until then He calls us not what I want us to be called, but what He calls us in scripture: obedient children or disobedient children.
Three titles He has for us obedient children -or- disobedient children -or- sons of the devil
Two of those titles are claimed by Him as Christ's possession, the other the third title is not claimed by Him but turned over to their own chosen/adopted father the devil, the murderer, the slanderer, the accuser, the deceiver to him and his just rewards they are turned over to.

Just because we are born into a fallen world where the knowledge of good and evil rules the world until it is restored by Father, Father does not revoke or repent of our title as His children. He will never do that unless or until those children follow the methods and paths of the other father the devil.
The saved are His children the sheep who can hear His voice, the lost are His children too but lost sheep who need to hear His voice, but the followers/children of satan are turned over to satan and his just rewards and God no longer claims them as His children they are the devils children.
His obedient children will reign with Christ, His disobedient children will be tried by fire, children of the devil will have everlasting separation from Father.

Jesus has made it clear to me long ago when He said: I only do what I see my Father in heaven do, He/Christ also only spoke what His Father spoke.... He is our example, I try to imitate that example even down to the words He uses as much as it is possible for me to do.
So, I am not saying what I want to be said here on this post, I am saying what my Lord Jesus and His Father said and it is all recorded in scripture and NT letters and writings.

If anyone has a hard time digesting what I have posted here, then I suggest a topical word search of "children-child" and if that does not help in digestion then a topical word search of "obedient and disobedient" in our scriptures and NT letters and writings.
I am not a scripture lawyer or a teacher I come here to share not teach, Christ is both a teacher and the best scripture lawyer in history using His Fathers Holy Spirit sent to those who know they need Him.

But I will allow myself to be taught and am willing to respond to any scripture and NT presented to me for my own correction of what I have posted here or the attitude in which I presented it, Shalom.



Father bless.Maybe I will not have to answer your question after you have read my thoughts here, I do not know.
But, anyway I see all of us children of God because He created us all, but I see three maybe even four titles as children of the Father:
Obedient children, lost or disobedient children, and children of another father (but the last title is a personal choice) and not an appointed title.

Thank you for the question PneumaPsucheSoma I am looking forward to the discussion.

Father bless.

PneumaPsucheSoma
Oct 17th 2010, 01:28 PM
Greetings PneumaPsucheSoma.

I am grateful that I finally get an opportunity to discuss with you our Creator's plan of eternal restoration to fellowship with Him self.
I have observed your insight on these forums and I have admired your thoughts, words and attitudes to your fellows here, but have never had the opportunity to discuss one on one any of the subjects that I have saw you post on here yet.

That said now, my post that you quoted. I know that you know that it was posted directly to knox knox
So, I chose the words in said post because of the history of knox knox's and my previous communication in this and a few other threads here on BF.
I will be happy though and I am actually even eager to respond to your question to, but I would first like to give knox knox time to respond to it first because in it is an apology to him from myself.





BUT: I desire to and will respond to your question here but again, only after knox knox does first. Or you could start another thread with that content and even re-post the quote of mine there too, and I will be happy to respond there in a more timely manner, but either way, which ever you choose, I will respond to your question.

In the mean time I want to share with you a slightly edited post of mine from another thread here which may or may not give you an insight into my understanding of Father's children.
Then after or if you read it, and still desire my answer to your question, I will answer you, whether you choose to re-phrase the question or leave it as it is now... I will respond.

Here is the slightly edited post of mine that I hope you will read before I answer your question. Thank you PneumaPsucheSoma and I am glad to finally get a chance to discuss a thing with you, it is and will be my pleasure.

Maybe I will not have to answer your question after you have read my thoughts here, I do not know.
But, anyway I see all of us children of God because He created us all, but I see three maybe even four titles as children of the Father:
Obedient children, lost or disobedient children, and children of another father (but the last title is a personal choice) and not an appointed title.

Thank you for the question PneumaPsucheSoma I am looking forward to the discussion.

Father bless.

I think I see. You were clarifying whether knox knox was saying we become the Father as God ourselves. I had thought it was a reference to non-trinity being of a different Father by not acknowledging the Father "person" of that doctrine.

Discuss at your discretion and convenience, my Brother.

MoreMercy
Oct 17th 2010, 01:35 PM
I think I see. You were clarifying whether knox knox was saying we become the Father as God ourselves. I had thought it was a reference to non-trinity being of a different Father by not acknowledging the Father "person" of that doctrine.

Discuss at your discretion and convenience, my Brother.
Thank you friend...
I still to this day have difficulty gripping the trinity doctrine my self, and even more difficulty expressing my understanding of it to others.
And yes, I was trying to get clarifification on whether knox knox was saying we become the Father as God ourselves.

Again, thank you, and I will and am still willing and even eager to discuss any topic that I am educated in with you at your convenience.

Father bless.

PneumaPsucheSoma
Oct 17th 2010, 01:45 PM
Brother PPS,
Your words are strange to me because I do not know the meaning of; Ho Logos of the Rhema.

"In the begininng was The Word (Ho Logos)...". Logos is the intelligent thought and expression as the spoken word; Rhema is the subject matter spoken about by the spoken word. Ho Logos is "The" Word as God's Divine Expression of Himself; Rhema is "The" Word as God's Divine Content of Himself in the Divine Expression. Ho Logos is the demonstration, representation, and manifestation of Total Divinity to/for us. The fullness of the Godhead bodily, descended from the eternal to the temporal to reveal Himself to those who will see and hear Him.


Your white stone is engraved. where?
It was illustrative of His name being written "in" my white stone.

knox knox
Oct 18th 2010, 01:00 AM
Thank you friend...
I still to this day have difficulty gripping the trinity doctrine my self, and even more difficulty expressing my understanding of it to others.
And yes, I was trying to get clarifification on whether knox knox was saying we become the Father as God ourselves.

Again, thank you, and I will and am still willing and even eager to discuss any topic that I am educated in with you at your convenience.

Father bless.

Brother MoreMercy,
I thougth that everything has been clear enough in my last post to you
and I only know, that you are still waiting for some more clarification from me when I had read it onyour post to PPS.

So, here are some words that I can add.The doctrine of Trinity, was really very hard to prove directly from the Bible. If God will not gave us proper understanding we can say that this doctrine is not biblical.
But I will affirm to you that Trinity;the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost is true and they were seperate distinct but in essence they were
one God.
If we shall remove or take out the manifestation of each of the Trinity
in the Holy Scripture,there is no way any body can know nothing about God. With out the full participation of the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost if we blotted it out from the sripture the Bible will not even be
better than any book, but a mere garbage.

Without the Father, who shall sent the Word to world to redeemed man
from their sin. After the Son of man hast ascended to heaven, who shall teaches us on how we can be born again. If anyone doubted the excistence of the Holy Ghost then you can never had a chance to know Jesus Christ.So. in my view if you doubt the truthfulness of the Trinity, you are lost and your faith is in vain.

I've read your quote to PPS and I agree that we will be a children of God if we will be odedient to his commandment, unlike what Cain did.

1 Cor.8:6 But for us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him: and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things,
and we by him.

knox knox
Oct 18th 2010, 01:25 AM
"In the begininng was The Word (Ho Logos)...". Logos is the intelligent thought and expression as the spoken word; Rhema is the subject matter spoken about by the spoken word. Ho Logos is "The" Word as God's Divine Expression of Himself; Rhema is "The" Word as God's Divine Content of Himself in the Divine Expression. Ho Logos is the demonstration, representation, and manifestation of Total Divinity to/for us. The fullness of the Godhead bodily, descended from the eternal to the temporal to reveal Himself to those who will see and hear Him.


It was illustrative of His name being written "in" my white stone.

Brother PPS,
Thank you for clarifying the Ho Logos of Rhema so, it was the word
'Word' that was from the beginning was God which do represent his hidden Holy name.
Your illustration of His hidden name is in parallel of Heb.8:10 For this the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them i their hearts; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.
Thank you very much for your share.

I pray to Father in the name of Lord Jesus to give you abundant blessing.

MoreMercy
Oct 18th 2010, 02:14 AM
Brother MoreMercy,
I thougth that everything has been clear enough in my last post to you
and I only know, that you are still waiting for some more clarification from me when I had read it onyour post to PPS.

Howdy knox knox


Pagbati Knox Knox. Mapagpakumbaba Ang iyong espiritu at magiliw asal ay mabuti na katibayan na ang iyong Ama ay Diyos. Ikaw ay isang pagpapala sa iyong mga kasamahan at luwalhatiin mo ang iyong Ama sa langit, mo ring dalhin sa amin sa Kanya, at dalhin mo sa amin at sa Kanya na kagalakan. Bless ka Aijsher

Knox Knox na pagbati ng iyong espiritu mapagpakumbaba at magiliw asal ay mabuti na katibayan na ang iyong ama ay GOD. Ikaw ay isang pagpapala sa iyong mga kasamahan at luwalhatiin ang inyong Ama sa langit, at patnubayan tayo sa Kanya at kagalakan. Bless Aijsher mo

Greetings Knox Knox.
Your humble spirit and gentle manners is good evidence that your Father is GOD. You are a blessing to your fellows and you glorify your Father in heaven, you also bring us to Him, and you bring Him and us joy.
Bless you knox knox
No I am not still waiting on any clarification from you... :lol:
I am afraid you are mistaken this time, but you will have to follow the chronology of the conversations to see where you might have mistaken that everything has not been cleared up by you to me.
You have cleared everything up between me and you yesterday my friend.

You see, PneumaPsucheSoma was asking me a question about his belief on the trinity doctrine, asking me from a post that I posted to you: this post below


Hi Brother MoreMercy,
I think you are profusedly confuse by your words in this post and I don't know why.
you are right and I shall not refute your belief that we must walk under His ligh
and truth and become His vessel of light and truth to our fellows. I agree!! But who told you that we will become God? And by this wrong charge with me, you are ready to reprobate me ???; just a reminder...If they receive my words, they will receive your words too.

Kindly please check in any of my post that I had told to any one doctrine that we shall become God.

Thank you and Father bless.

Please forgive me for testing you brother but I do test all things until I confirm what seems to be, is really what is. I only do that because of what Father teaches us to do in His word. (test all things)

To be honest and to the point, this is why I tested you: from what I have read on this thread, you seem to me to avoid answering directly with common words yes or no, to questions directed at the trinity doctrine. UNTIL your last reply to me.

You do try to answer with scripture, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it seems to me again that those scripture you answer with still miss the mark of directly answering the questions about the doctrine of the trinity. UNTIL your last reply to me. And that confuses me, I took into account the language barrier between me and you but still have not seen you answer that question directly.
UNTIL your last reply to me even though again you answered with scripture: "1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and the three are one."
I accept that as your answer now.

I do not think you are reprobate !
Again, please forgive me for testing you brother, but I do test all things until I confirm what seems to be, is really what is. And again, I only did that because of what Father teaches us to do in His word.
And, again I know there is also a language barrier between you and me and I see/believe now that to be the main cause of my testing you.

Again, please forgive me ?
Father bless.
PneumaPsucheSoma posted this question to me: this post below


Please forgive me for testing you brother but I do test all things until I confirm what seems to be, is really what is. I only do that because of what Father teaches us to do in His word. (test all things)

To be honest and to the point, this is why I tested you: from what I have read on this thread, you seem to me to avoid answering directly with common words yes or no, to questions directed at the trinity doctrine. UNTIL your last reply to me.

You do try to answer with scripture, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it seems to me again that those scripture you answer with still miss the mark of directly answering the questions about the doctrine of the trinity. UNTIL your last reply to me. And that confuses me, I took into account the language barrier between me and you but still have not seen you answer that question directly.
UNTIL your last reply to me even though again you answered with scripture: "1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and the three are one."
I accept that as your answer now.

I do not think you are reprobate !
Again, please forgive me for testing you brother, but I do test all things until I confirm what seems to be, is really what is. And again, I only did that because of what Father teaches us to do in His word.
And, again I know there is also a language barrier between you and me and I see/believe now that to be the main cause of my testing you.

Again, please forgive me ?
Father bless.



Hi MM,

I affirm that Jesus is pre-existent, uncreated, and divine; but I don't hold to the creedal trinity doctrine. Do you then consider us as not having the same Father?
So I answered to PneumaPsucheSoma here: this post below



Hi MM,

I affirm that Jesus is pre-existent, uncreated, and divine; but I don't hold to the creedal trinity doctrine. Do you then consider us as not having the same Father?
Greetings PneumaPsucheSoma.

I am grateful that I finally get an opportunity to discuss with you our Creator's plan of eternal restoration to fellowship with Him self.
I have observed your insight on these forums and I have admired your thoughts, words and attitudes to your fellows here, but have never had the opportunity to discuss one on one any of the subjects that I have saw you post on here yet.

That said now, my post that you quoted. I know that you know that it was posted directly to knox knox
So, I chose the words in said post because of the history of knox knox's and my previous communication in this and a few other threads here on BF.
I will be happy though and I am actually even eager to respond to your question to, but I would first like to give knox knox time to respond to it first because in it is an apology to him from myself.





BUT: I desire to and will respond to your question here but again, only after knox knox does first. Or you could start another thread with that content and even re-post the quote of mine there too, and I will be happy to respond there in a more timely manner, but either way, which ever you choose, I will respond to your question.

In the mean time I want to share with you a slightly edited post of mine from another thread here which may or may not give you an insight into my understanding of Father's children.
Then after or if you read it, and still desire my answer to your question, I will answer you, whether you choose to re-phrase the question or leave it as it is now... I will respond.

Here is the slightly edited post of mine that I hope you will read before I answer your question. Thank you PneumaPsucheSoma and I am glad to finally get a chance to discuss a thing with you, it is and will be my pleasure.


I see it as:
When I receive the deposit of His Holy Spirit I am adopted into the vine/Israel, and the root of that vine is Christ Jesus.

I was not adopted into being Gods child but adopted into the vine, I was already His child unless I have adopted another father by adopting that other fathers methods and paths in my daily living/path, just as Cain did.

My Father's only begotten Son is the tree of life... The other tree is the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Even though I am Gods child even before I received the deposit of His Holy Spirit, my mind and soul were seared by my knowledge of good and evil because I was born into a fallen world.
However when I received that deposit I was healed of that sear and am being transformed by Christ good merciful works transformed from grace to more graces from mercy to more mercies, and I am adopted by Christ work into the vine which Christ is the root of.

I have always been a child of God but now adopted into the vine I am no longer separated/lost from Him my Father.
But, if I choose to follow that other father, then I am not Gods child any longer, not by Gods action or choice but by my own choice of following the paths and methods of that other father <---- the murderer the one who not just knows of good and evil but lives, operates and manipulates in that knowledge. With that other father as my father if I was in the vine I will also be cut off from the vine and will not have any fellowship with God here on earth or in the eternity.

If any of us choose the other father then we are titled by God as children of the devil, but until then He calls us not what I want us to be called, but what He calls us in scripture: obedient children or disobedient children.
Three titles He has for us obedient children -or- disobedient children -or- sons of the devil
Two of those titles are claimed by Him as Christ's possession, the other the third title is not claimed by Him but turned over to their own chosen/adopted father the devil, the murderer, the slanderer, the accuser, the deceiver to him and his just rewards they are turned over to.

Just because we are born into a fallen world where the knowledge of good and evil rules the world until it is restored by Father, Father does not revoke or repent of our title as His children. He will never do that unless or until those children follow the methods and paths of the other father the devil.
The saved are His children the sheep who can hear His voice, the lost are His children too but lost sheep who need to hear His voice, but the followers/children of satan are turned over to satan and his just rewards and God no longer claims them as His children they are the devils children.
His obedient children will reign with Christ, His disobedient children will be tried by fire, children of the devil will have everlasting separation from Father.

Jesus has made it clear to me long ago when He said: I only do what I see my Father in heaven do, He/Christ also only spoke what His Father spoke.... He is our example, I try to imitate that example even down to the words He uses as much as it is possible for me to do.
So, I am not saying what I want to be said here on this post, I am saying what my Lord Jesus and His Father said and it is all recorded in scripture and NT letters and writings.

If anyone has a hard time digesting what I have posted here, then I suggest a topical word search of "children-child" and if that does not help in digestion then a topical word search of "obedient and disobedient" in our scriptures and NT letters and writings.
I am not a scripture lawyer or a teacher I come here to share not teach, Christ is both a teacher and the best scripture lawyer in history using His Fathers Holy Spirit sent to those who know they need Him.

But I will allow myself to be taught and am willing to respond to any scripture and NT presented to me for my own correction of what I have posted here or the attitude in which I presented it, Shalom.



Father bless.Maybe I will not have to answer your question after you have read my thoughts here, I do not know.
But, anyway I see all of us children of God because He created us all, but I see three maybe even four titles as children of the Father:
Obedient children, lost or disobedient children, and children of another father (but the last title is a personal choice) and not an appointed title.

Thank you for the question PneumaPsucheSoma I am looking forward to the discussion.

Father bless.
Which finally led to this post below:



I think I see. You were clarifying whether knox knox was saying we become the Father as God ourselves. I had thought it was a reference to non-trinity being of a different Father by not acknowledging the Father "person" of that doctrine.

Discuss at your discretion and convenience, my Brother.
Thank you friend...
I still to this day have difficulty gripping the trinity doctrine my self, and even more difficulty expressing my understanding of it to others.
And yes, I was trying to get clarification on whether knox knox was saying we become the Father as God ourselves.

Again, thank you, and I will and am still willing and even eager to discuss any topic that I am educated in with you at your convenience.

Father bless.

Which I think led you to believe that you did not make it clear to me, when actually you did.
The confusion came from PneumaPsucheSoma asking me a question about his belief on the trinity from a post I was posting to you initially.....
So we can blame PneumaPsucheSoma for the confusion :lol:


His peace to you good servant of my Master

PneumaPsucheSoma
Oct 18th 2010, 01:23 PM
So we can blame PneumaPsucheSoma...
:blush::lol:...............

Firstfruits
Oct 18th 2010, 01:57 PM
So, if we are one with Jesus, and Jesus is one with God, do you mean that we are the God and Father? do I understand you right?

We are of one accord.

Firstfruits

knox knox
Oct 19th 2010, 05:54 AM
Howdy knox knox


Pagbati Knox Knox. Mapagpakumbaba Ang iyong espiritu at magiliw asal ay mabuti na katibayan na ang iyong Ama ay Diyos. Ikaw ay isang pagpapala sa iyong mga kasamahan at luwalhatiin mo ang iyong Ama sa langit, mo ring dalhin sa amin sa Kanya, at dalhin mo sa amin at sa Kanya na kagalakan. Bless ka Aijsher

Knox Knox na pagbati ng iyong espiritu mapagpakumbaba at magiliw asal ay mabuti na katibayan na ang iyong ama ay GOD. Ikaw ay isang pagpapala sa iyong mga kasamahan at luwalhatiin ang inyong Ama sa langit, at patnubayan tayo sa Kanya at kagalakan. Bless Aijsher mo

Greetings Knox Knox.
Your humble spirit and gentle manners is good evidence that your Father is GOD. You are a blessing to your fellows and you glorify your Father in heaven, you also bring us to Him, and you bring Him and us joy.
Bless you knox knox
No I am not still waiting on any clarification from you... :lol:
I am afraid you are mistaken this time, but you will have to follow the chronology of the conversations to see where you might have mistaken that everything has not been cleared up by you to me.
You have cleared everything up between me and you yesterday my friend.

You see, PneumaPsucheSoma was asking me a question about his belief on the trinity doctrine, asking me from a post that I posted to you: this post below

PneumaPsucheSoma posted this question to me: this post below
So I answered to PneumaPsucheSoma here: this post below

Which finally led to this post below:


Which I think led you to believe that you did not make it clear to me, when actually you did.
The confusion came from PneumaPsucheSoma asking me a question about his belief on the trinity from a post I was posting to you initially.....
So we can blame PneumaPsucheSoma for the confusion :lol:


His peace to you good servant of my Master

Brother MoreMercy,
You had nothing done bad to me and ask for forgiveness, forget it all but I think everything now is well.
Father bless.

knox knox
Oct 19th 2010, 06:01 AM
We are of one accord.

Firstfruits
Thanks to our Lord Jesus and our Father, that I was not alone and I can hear what God answered to Elijah; Lord they kileth all your prophets and I alone was left and they looking for me to kill me. God answered I have saved 7000 spirit that did'nt kneel to Baal.
Thanks for your quote Father bless.

knox knox
Oct 19th 2010, 06:04 AM
:blush::lol:...............

Brother PPS No, I'm not blaming you...it was just an error.
Thank you.

Firstfruits
Oct 19th 2010, 08:03 AM
Thanks to our Lord Jesus and our Father, that I was not alone and I can hear what God answered to Elijah; Lord they kileth all your prophets and I alone was left and they looking for me to kill me. God answered I have saved 7000 spirit that did'nt kneel to Baal.
Thanks for your quote Father bless.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

knox knox
Oct 19th 2010, 08:28 AM
God bless you!

Firstfruits

If it so happened that we have some difference on doctrine, please read my daily posting here
because I shall reveal many doctrine that man cannot understand.
I pray to thee Father trough our Lord Jesus full enlightment of his WORD.

Many blessing fom our Lord God.

Firstfruits
Oct 19th 2010, 09:17 AM
If it so happened that we have some difference on doctrine, please read my daily posting here
because I shall reveal many doctrine that man cannot understand.
I pray to thee Father trough our Lord Jesus full enlightment of his WORD.

Many blessing fom our Lord God.

Thank you Knox Knox,

Firstfruits

MoreMercy
Oct 19th 2010, 09:57 AM
If it so happened that we have some difference on doctrine, please read my daily posting here
because I shall reveal many doctrine that man cannot understand.
I pray to thee Father trough our Lord Jesus full enlightment of his WORD.

Many blessing fom our Lord God.

knox knox, I am looking forward to your daily post.
And also, I will agree with your prayer in my praying too.


Father blesses.