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Amos_with_goats
Oct 26th 2010, 07:09 PM
Ought a follower of Christ swear oaths?

Why, or why not?

Scripture?

Fenris
Oct 26th 2010, 07:10 PM
Ought a follower of Christ swear oaths?

Not with Jews, apparently :rofl:

-SEEKING-
Oct 26th 2010, 07:10 PM
How about that scripture let your yes be yes and your no be no. I gotta look it up. But it says something to the effect of NOT taking an oath.

Amos_with_goats
Oct 26th 2010, 07:13 PM
It is interesting that the US Military specifically rejected the idea of the 'Oath of enlistment'. It was deemed to be a violation (and the option of 'affirming' the precept added) to avoid violation of individual beliefs.

VerticalReality
Oct 26th 2010, 07:14 PM
How about that scripture let your yes be yes and your no be no. I gotta look it up. But it says something to the effect of NOT taking an oath.

Matthew 5:33-37
“Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

Free Indeed
Oct 26th 2010, 07:19 PM
Not with Jews, apparently :rofl:



Tried to rep you for that one.

As for oaths, the answer is: it depends. Jesus and James warned of taking oaths; however, Paul places himself under oath multiple times in his epistles. The commandment on taking oaths is to not use "the name of the Lord thy God in vain", meaning any oath taken should be kept.

Of course, nothing is probably completely absolute. Consider the case of Jepthah and his daughter. Which is worse: breaking an oath or setting your daughter on fire?

-SEEKING-
Oct 26th 2010, 07:45 PM
Matthew 5:33-37
“Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

Thank you VerticalReality. Saved me some time.

christseeker
Oct 26th 2010, 07:45 PM
Honestly I swear........oops :D

GitRDunn
Oct 26th 2010, 10:27 PM
For those who would indicate that taking an oath is wrong, is it then wrong for a Christian who is elected president to say the oath of office?

Amos_with_goats
Oct 26th 2010, 10:33 PM
For those who would indicate that taking an oath is wrong, is it then wrong for a Christian who is elected president to say the oath of office?

Interesting question.


Each president recites the following oath, in accordance with Article II, Section I of the U.S. Constitution:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

see post #4.

notuptome
Oct 26th 2010, 11:10 PM
If elected I would take the oath of office.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Amos_with_goats
Oct 26th 2010, 11:11 PM
If elected I would take the oath of office.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Thats good to know Roger.

I would vote for you. :)

Frecs
Oct 26th 2010, 11:14 PM
Ought a follower of Christ swear oaths?

Why, or why not?

Scripture?

Since it has already been mentioned about letting our yes be yes and our no be no...I'll add this:

2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Often this is used only in the context of marriage. But, I think this goes well beyond the marriage vow. In any situation where we are aligning ourselves with a person or group, we are being yoked to them. What does "yoked" mean? Two animals yoked together must move in one direction in unison. If we join with a business partner, we must move in one direction in unison with them. If we join a club or fraternity or social organization, we are agreeing to move in step with them. Thus, we become yoked to them. Who are we getting yoked to? Believers or nonbelievers? Can we be yoked to unbelievers and make them walk in our step? Or, will we find our Christian walk adversely affected by having to adjust our walk to fit those unbelievers we are yoked to?

How does this apply to swearing oaths? Good question. Is the oath simply a declaration that our word is truth before God? There is no yoking. Is the oath a promise to uphold the beliefs and practices of the person/organization? This is a yoking. If I wish to join a knitting guild and that guild requires me to swear an oath to adhere to their practices and beliefs and those practices and beliefs are not inline with my faith--then to swear that oath is against biblical principles because it yokes me to nonbelievers.

notuptome
Oct 26th 2010, 11:25 PM
Thats good to know Roger.

I would vote for you. :)
I'll only need another 20 or 30 million more. Not to mention a half a billion dollars. Ouch. I do have one specific qualification for my voters though, you gotta' be born again or you cain't vote for me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

ProjectPeter
Oct 27th 2010, 02:20 AM
For those who would indicate that taking an oath is wrong, is it then wrong for a Christian who is elected president to say the oath of office?Saying "I promise" to do something is sketchy enough but taking an oath swearing to your own head... by heaven... in God's name... etc. That is in direct opposition to the teaching of Christ. VR already provided the Scripture for this... here it is again.

Matthew 5:33 ¶"Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, `YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.´
34 "But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
35 or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING.
36 "Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 "But let your statement be, `Yes, yes´ or `No, no´; and anything beyond these is of evil.


Now... if you are going to take the teaching of Jesus as something you, a Christian, should follow... then how can the answer be anything but "NO?" And office, military, whatever... it says what it says and Jesus said it. Who do we, as Christians, follow?

Diggindeeper
Oct 27th 2010, 02:42 AM
Maybe it depends on what you are swearing to, or promising....

ProjectPeter
Oct 27th 2010, 02:44 AM
Maybe it depends on what you are swearing to, or promising....

Well I suppose if one wants to count what Christ said as a "gray area"... problem is... seems pretty much a straight forward kind of thing! He says don't do it. Now I'm just simple enough to sort of figure that means... don't do it. Perhaps it is different in the Greek? Nah... that's what it says even there. So I suspect Jesus simply meant.... Don't swear an oath! :lol:

-SEEKING-
Oct 27th 2010, 02:48 AM
Matthew 5:33 ¶"Again, you have heard that the ancients were told

Don't mean to derail but I had a question. I've seen that " ¶ " many times. What does it mean?

ProjectPeter
Oct 27th 2010, 02:54 AM
Don't mean to derail but I had a question. I've seen that " ¶ " many times. What does it mean?Today, we could say, you have heard it said in the days of old or in the Old Testament, or even in the Mosaic Law.

-SEEKING-
Oct 27th 2010, 02:57 AM
Today, we could say, you have heard it said in the days of old or in the Old Testament, or even in the Mosaic Law.

LOL. Thanks. But I was actually referring to that little stick figure that looks like a backwards P. Not the actual scripture. Thanks.

ProjectPeter
Oct 27th 2010, 03:08 AM
Doh! My bad!

It is a pilcrow ... a paragraph mark.

Free Indeed
Oct 27th 2010, 02:56 PM
Saying "I promise" to do something is sketchy enough but taking an oath swearing to your own head... by heaven... in God's name... etc. That is in direct opposition to the teaching of Christ.

If that is the case, how could it be that Paul repeatedly placed himself under oath in the epistles, which are considered inspired scripture?

It is the traditional teaching of the Church that oaths are permissable, but should not be entered into lightly. The following is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and is generally agreed upon by most non-Pentecostal and non-Quaker denominations:

Following St. Paul,the tradition of the Church has understood Jesus' words as not excluding oaths made for grave and right reasons (for example, in court). "An oath, that is the invocation of the divine name as a witness to truth, cannot be taken unless in truth, in judgment, and in justice."

Frecs
Oct 27th 2010, 03:04 PM
If that is the case, how could it be that Paul repeatedly placed himself under oath in the epistles, which are considered inspired scripture?

It is the traditional teaching of the Church that oaths are permissable, but should not be entered into lightly. The following is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and is generally agreed upon by most non-Pentecostal and non-Quaker denominations:

Following St. Paul,the tradition of the Church has understood Jesus' words as not excluding oaths made for grave and right reasons (for example, in court). "An oath, that is the invocation of the divine name as a witness to truth, cannot be taken unless in truth, in judgment, and in justice."

What oaths did Paul take? Scripture please.

Free Indeed
Oct 27th 2010, 03:12 PM
What oaths did Paul take? Scripture please.

Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth. - II Corinthians 1:23

Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not. - Galatians 1:20

There are a couple of other examples, these were the first I could remember.

ProjectPeter
Oct 27th 2010, 05:19 PM
If that is the case, how could it be that Paul repeatedly placed himself under oath in the epistles, which are considered inspired scripture?Paul shouldn't have done it. Served no true purpose but then I doubt Paul carried around a copy of the book of Matthew with him. At the time... it was just part of his Jewish practice.


It is the traditional teaching of the Church that oaths are permissable, but should not be entered into lightly. The following is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and is generally agreed upon by most non-Pentecostal and non-Quaker denominations:

Following St. Paul,the tradition of the Church has understood Jesus' words as not excluding oaths made for grave and right reasons (for example, in court). "An oath, that is the invocation of the divine name as a witness to truth, cannot be taken unless in truth, in judgment, and in justice."And they are wrong... I doubt seriously that any of them had the Apostolic authority to trump the teaching of Christ. ;)

ProjectPeter
Oct 27th 2010, 05:21 PM
Um... calling on God as a witness is not quite the oath thing that Jesus was speaking of eh?

Frecs
Oct 27th 2010, 05:26 PM
Thanks PP...that's what I was thinking but had not formulated as reasoned a response...you rock. :D

Free Indeed
Oct 27th 2010, 05:40 PM
Um... calling on God as a witness is not quite the oath thing that Jesus was speaking of eh?

Yes. Calling on God as a witness is the definition of an oath.

Free Indeed
Oct 27th 2010, 05:42 PM
Paul shouldn't have done it. Served no true purpose but then I doubt Paul carried around a copy of the book of Matthew with him. At the time... it was just part of his Jewish practice.

And they are wrong... I doubt seriously that any of them had the Apostolic authority to trump the teaching of Christ. ;)

The writings are considered inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Church has traditionally considered the taking of oaths by Christians to be legitimate, although with the stipulation that oaths should only be entered into for serious purposes.

ProjectPeter
Oct 27th 2010, 07:44 PM
Yes. Calling on God as a witness is the definition of an oath.

It can be... certainly by our definition today. But I'm talking in context with what Jesus said. Not a stretched definition of the word.

ProjectPeter
Oct 27th 2010, 07:45 PM
The writings are considered inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Church has traditionally considered the taking of oaths by Christians to be legitimate, although with the stipulation that oaths should only be entered into for serious purposes.
Uh... where do you see in Paul's instruction to the church that you should take an oath on heaven, your head, God, etc?

Free Indeed
Oct 27th 2010, 08:02 PM
Uh... where do you see in Paul's instruction to the church that you should take an oath on heaven, your head, God, etc?

There is none, but as the saying goes, we lead by example. If you prefer not to take an oath, you certainly don't have to. I was simply pointing out the traditional stance of the Christian Church on the subject.

ProjectPeter
Oct 27th 2010, 09:41 PM
There is none, but as the saying goes, we lead by example. If you prefer not to take an oath, you certainly don't have to. I was simply pointing out the traditional stance of the Christian Church on the subject.

But then you're allowing that tradition to trump God's word to the church?

Matthew 15:1 *Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem, saying,
2 *"Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
3 *And He answered and said to them, "And why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 *"For God said, `HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,´ and, `HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, LET HIM BE PUT TO DEATH.´
5 *"But you say, `Whoever shall say to his father or mother, "Anything of mine you might have been helped by has been given to God,"
6 *he is not to honor his father or his mother.´ And thus you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7 *"You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
8 *`THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
9 *`BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.´"

You're saying it is okay and yet Jesus said otherwise... doesn't that at least appear to be conflicting to you?

GitRDunn
Oct 28th 2010, 01:41 AM
It is interesting that the US Military specifically rejected the idea of the 'Oath of enlistment'. It was deemed to be a violation (and the option of 'affirming' the precept added) to avoid violation of individual beliefs.

Interesting question.
see post #4.
When you say affirm vs. swear, you are going to have the same meaning behind the words, so why does it matter what the specific word you use is?


Paul shouldn't have done it. Served no true purpose but then I doubt Paul carried around a copy of the book of Matthew with him. At the time... it was just part of his Jewish practice.
But these examples are in the Bible, so are you saying the Bible is wrong or that something that is shown to be ok in the Bible might not actually be ok? What do you think of the idea that God has sworn oaths before?

Genesis 22:15-18 (New International Version)


15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

Joshua 5:6 (New International Version)

6 The Israelites had moved about in the desert forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land that he had solemnly promised their fathers to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey.



Psalm 89:3-4 (New International Version)


3 You said, "I have made a covenant with my chosen one,
I have sworn to David my servant,
4 'I will establish your line forever
and make your throne firm through all generations.' "
Selah


Isaiah 45:23-24 (New International Version)


23 By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.
24 They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone
are righteousness and strength.' "
All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame.


Jeremiah 22:5 (New International Version)

5 But if you do not obey these commands, declares the LORD, I swear by myself that this palace will become a ruin.' "


Also, a quick question: What does swearing by your head mean?

ProjectPeter
Oct 28th 2010, 02:20 AM
When you say affirm vs. swear, you are going to have the same meaning behind the words, so why does it matter what the specific word you use is?


But these examples are in the Bible, so are you saying the Bible is wrong or that something that is shown to be ok in the Bible might not actually be ok? What do you think of the idea that God has sworn oaths before?

Genesis 22:15-18 (New International Version)


15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

Joshua 5:6 (New International Version)

6 The Israelites had moved about in the desert forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land that he had solemnly promised their fathers to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey.



Psalm 89:3-4 (New International Version)


3 You said, "I have made a covenant with my chosen one,
I have sworn to David my servant,
4 'I will establish your line forever
and make your throne firm through all generations.' "
Selah


Isaiah 45:23-24 (New International Version)


23 By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.
24 They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone
are righteousness and strength.' "
All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame.


Jeremiah 22:5 (New International Version)

5 But if you do not obey these commands, declares the LORD, I swear by myself that this palace will become a ruin.' "


Also, a quick question: What does swearing by your head mean?

What did Jesus say? Was it wrong that they did it in the Old Testament? Call me sort of leaning towards the teaching of Jesus... the Christ... but yes... it wasn't the right way to do things hence Jesus saying... Don't do it! ;)

As to what it means specifically... could mean a lot of things I suspect depending on the culture and time.

Here is what James figured this really meant.

James 5:12 *¶But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath; but let your yes be yes, and your no, no; so that you may not fall under judgment.

I just can't help but think that what they are saying... don't do it. Call it a simple hunch on my part though! :)

GitRDunn
Oct 28th 2010, 02:37 AM
What did Jesus say? Was it wrong that they did it in the Old Testament? Call me sort of leaning towards the teaching of Jesus... the Christ... but yes... it wasn't the right way to do things hence Jesus saying... Don't do it! ;)

As to what it means specifically... could mean a lot of things I suspect depending on the culture and time.

Here is what James figured this really meant.

James 5:12 *¶But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath; but let your yes be yes, and your no, no; so that you may not fall under judgment.

I just can't help but think that what they are saying... don't do it. Call it a simple hunch on my part though! :)
I have something I want to say, I just haven't figured out exactly how to put it into words yet, so it might be this weekend before I provide a full reply. Quickly, though, you say it "wasn't the right way to do things hence Jesus saying... Don't do it!", but this was God swearing these things, so are you saying He was doing something and wasn't doing it the right way?

Diggindeeper
Oct 28th 2010, 02:41 AM
God was not doing it in secret, for one thing......

And God being who he is and all, if he desires, he could strike any one of us dead. That does not mean we should do that either.

GitRDunn
Oct 28th 2010, 03:09 AM
God was not doing it in secret, for one thing......
Are you saying there is a distinction between making oaths in secret vs. in public?


And God being who he is and all, if he desires, he could strike any one of us dead. That does not mean we should do that either.
What does this have to do with swearing oaths? I must have missed your point.

Diggindeeper
Oct 28th 2010, 03:25 AM
I certainly don't approve of ANY organization or Fraternity or any other group that makes their members swear an oath in SECRET. Even when we promise or swear to tell the truth in a courtroom, it is not in secret. We are promising on the Bible to tell the truth, and it is very public. Even recorded right then and there, with everyone witnessing that you promise or swear to tell the truth. You raise your right hand and promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, etc.

That's what I mean. So, yes. There is a big difference in 'secret oaths' or 'secret obligations' or whatever one chooses to call them.

About your second question above, just look at every time God swore or promised to do something. Even with God, it was never in secret. I thought you said you were questioning was it okay for God to swear (in the Old Testament), but not in the New Testament. Did I misunderstand you?

GitRDunn
Oct 28th 2010, 03:35 AM
I certainly don't approve of ANY organization or Fraternity or any other group that makes their members swear an oath in SECRET. Even when we promise or swear to tell the truth in a courtroom, it is not in secret. We are promising on the Bible to tell the truth, and it is very public. Even recorded right then and there, with everyone witnessing that you promise or swear to tell the truth. You raise your right hand and promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, etc.

That's what I mean. So, yes. There is a big difference in 'secret oaths' or 'secret obligations' or whatever one chooses to call them.
Could you explain to me a little further why there is a difference?


About your second question above, just look at every time God swore or promised to do something. Even with God, it was never in secret. I thought you said you were questioning was it okay for God to swear (in the Old Testament), but not in the New Testament. Did I misunderstand you?
My question had been somewhat rhetorical in response to those that were blatantly saying every oath is wrong. Specifically I was responding to Peter who, in response to my posted verses showing God swearing, had said that it was obviously wrong when done in the Old Testament and Jesus pointed this out in the NT. This made it sound as if he was saying that God had done something wrong in the OT, so I was asking for clarification from him.

ProjectPeter
Oct 28th 2010, 03:54 AM
I have something I want to say, I just haven't figured out exactly how to put it into words yet, so it might be this weekend before I provide a full reply. Quickly, though, you say it "wasn't the right way to do things hence Jesus saying... Don't do it!", but this was God swearing these things, so are you saying He was doing something and wasn't doing it the right way?God is God... we aren't. Look at what Jesus says.

Matthew 5:33 ¶"Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, `YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.´
34 "But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
35 or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING.
36 "Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 "But let your statement be, `Yes, yes´ or `No, no´; and anything beyond these is of evil.

We have no power to swear by anything...it's all Gods ... God is God and we are not. If God wants to swear by His Own Self or by earth (although not as great as He) or by Jerusalem (although not as great as He) or by heaven (although not as great as He)... God can because it's God's to swear by... God has such authority and power to do what He swears to do.... He cannot lie.

Man... we're just man.

You have Jesus saying what He said. It wasn't hard to understand was it? You have James saying what he said. It wasn't hard to understand was it? I will say this too. Can't anyone say that "not doing it" is out of context... it absolutely IS the context. So... discount and discard the words of Jesus Christ who you say you follow and oath away! Or... follow His teaching and make no oath at all. That's the only choice we have to make on this particular matter and those that take such oaths DO NOT obey the very clear and simple teaching of Jesus Christ. Not sure how one can even argue such?

ProDeo
Oct 28th 2010, 11:59 AM
I have something I want to say, I just haven't figured out exactly how to put it into words yet, so it might be this weekend before I provide a full reply. Quickly, though, you say it "wasn't the right way to do things hence Jesus saying... Don't do it!", but this was God swearing these things, so are you saying He was doing something and wasn't doing it the right way?

Looks like only God is allowed to swear.

It might be the case Jesus is just protecting us against ourselves giving a strong warning because God is going to hold us to an oath. Look at Peter, he meant every word he said when he wanted to give his life for Christ and hours later saved his life 3 times by denying Christ 3 times. It seems Peter did not know himself that well and he had to learn a lesson the hard way.

By swearing an oath we step in the same footsteps as Peter, the risk of overestimated self confidence and the underestimation of life, time can be a bitch. What is true for us human mortals today isn't necessarily over 20-30 years, for Peter it only lasted a couple of hours.

I think the bottom line is that only God can swear and keep it. As such I see no contradiction.

Free Indeed
Oct 28th 2010, 12:23 PM
But then you're allowing that tradition to trump God's word to the church?

Are not Paul's epistles also the word of God to the Church?

Pretty much anybody can take a few verses in isolation, and make them the basis of either side of argument. Rightly dividing consists of taking the entire set of scriptures in context (for example, with Jesus fully understanding that the Pharisees were trying to use his words to trap him). I do not know of any theologians, outside the Quakers and Pentecostals, who believe that the Scriptures teach Christians cannot oaths. That guy may be around somewhere, I've just never read his works.

Frecs
Oct 28th 2010, 02:03 PM
Looks like only God is allowed to swear.

It might be the case Jesus is just protecting us against ourselves giving a strong warning because God is going to hold us to an oath. Look at Peter, he meant every word he said when he wanted to give his life for Christ and hours later saved his life 3 times by denying Christ 3 times. It seems Peter did not know himself that well and he had to learn a lesson the hard way.

By swearing an oath we step in the same footsteps as Peter, the risk of overestimated self confidence and the underestimation of life, time can be a bitch. What is true for us human mortals today isn't necessarily over 20-30 years, for Peter it only lasted a couple of hours.

I think the bottom line is that only God can swear and keep it. As such I see no contradiction.

I think you make a good point. We see in the OT that God says "don't make a vow unless you intend to fulfill it". The only "outs" God gave for vows was for women--if unmarried their father could null the vow, if married, the husband could--otherwise, if you vow it you betta do it! With that level of seriousness taken about oaths/vows, I can certainly see God saying "seriously, you don't want to do it without really really REALLY thinking about it...and then, you still might rather not do it." Like a protective Father, He's just trying to protect us from ourselves.

Amos_with_goats
Nov 2nd 2010, 03:57 AM
I think you make a good point. We see in the OT that God says "don't make a vow unless you intend to fulfill it". The only "outs" God gave for vows was for women--if unmarried their father could null the vow, if married, the husband could--otherwise, if you vow it you betta do it! With that level of seriousness taken about oaths/vows, I can certainly see God saying "seriously, you don't want to do it without really really REALLY thinking about it...and then, you still might rather not do it." Like a protective Father, He's just trying to protect us from ourselves.

Yes, I agree.

If any makes an oath without full understanding of what it entails they are in error.
It is like signing a blank check, it could be costly or it could wind you up in prison.....