PDA

View Full Version : Greet ye one another with a holy kiss



PneumaPsucheSoma
Dec 18th 2010, 07:30 AM
All these scriptures indicate an admonition to greet one another with a holy kiss/kiss of charity. Why don't we practice this? Should we?

Rom. 16:16
1Cor. 16:29
2Cor. 13:12
1Thess. 5:26
1Peter 5:14

14390876
Dec 18th 2010, 08:26 AM
I dont know, i guess one should, but i must say i find it a litte hard to imagine doing this. I embrace alot of people when i greet them. But kissing? I just cant. Im hoping we dont have to interpret there scriptures literally

AndrewBaptistFL
Dec 18th 2010, 11:18 AM
Do you think that culturally this would be something awkward?

notuptome
Dec 18th 2010, 01:20 PM
Do you think that culturally this would be something awkward?
Depends on your culture. Parts of Europe and certainly the middle east it is quite acceptable. I don't expect it to catch on here in the states. I shudder to think what it might degenerate into.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

PneumaPsucheSoma
Dec 18th 2010, 01:43 PM
I guess that's the reason for the question. Is this an instance where culture determines scriptural application and practice, or should scripture determine application and practice for believers in all cultures?

I see many pitfalls, but I've seen embraces abused, too. An older deacon I knew used to give sideways half-hugs to the younger attractive women, while slipping his hand around where his fingertips would be touching the fleshy part of their breasts. Nobody would confront him, but many learned to avoid him.

A quick cheek-kiss without embrace would be hard to abuse. Was it possibly exchanged only between the same gender?

Firefighter
Dec 19th 2010, 09:25 PM
I think he said this because it was cultural. I am sure it would translate into a hug or hand shake today...

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb301/sosministries/emoticons/AddEmoticons04249.gif

ProjectPeter
Dec 19th 2010, 10:29 PM
I think he said this because it was cultural. I am sure it would translate into a hug or hand shake today...

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb301/sosministries/emoticons/AddEmoticons04249.gif
Yeah... because if you kiss me... be prepared to exercise the other biblical injunction of when being smacked... turn the other cheek!. :D

TomH
Dec 19th 2010, 10:52 PM
Yeah... because if you kiss me... be prepared to exercise the other biblical injunction of when being smacked... turn the other cheek!. :D

Curly, Larry, meet Moe.
Go ahead and give him a kiss boys.

kay-gee
Dec 19th 2010, 11:49 PM
I think it is important to define HOLY kiss as opposed to a regular kiss

Therein should be the answer.

all the best...

Firefighter
Dec 20th 2010, 02:13 AM
Yeah... because if you kiss me... be prepared to exercise the other biblical injunction of when being smacked... turn the other cheek!. :D

Since context is out the window...

1 Timothy 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man...

:lol:

karenoka27
Dec 20th 2010, 02:32 AM
underailing the thread... :)

This made me laugh since there is another thread where people don't even like to shake hands in church.:lol:
Since this is Bible Chat, then I think as it was already mentioned it may have been a cultural thing.
I had never realized how many times a "holy" kiss was mentioned:
Romans 16:16-"Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you."
1 Corinthians 16:20-"All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss."
2 Corinthians 13:12-"Greet one another with an holy kiss."
1 Thessalonians 5:26-"Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss."

Judas kissed Jesus:
Luke 22:47-48-"And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him. But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?'

I understand this was not a holy kiss, but a kiss of betrayal..so what "is" a holy kiss?
Is it:
1 Peter 5:14-"Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity(love). Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen."

RabbiKnife
Dec 20th 2010, 02:28 PM
Many mid-east cultures still greet one another with a kiss. Usually same gender to same gender, not cross- gender.

I think it is a cultural issue, not an obedience issue.

The Mighty Sword
Dec 20th 2010, 04:52 PM
No, we should be allowed to pick and choose which scripture to abide by, as more of a convenience, so what if " All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" ;)

Vhayes
Dec 20th 2010, 04:55 PM
We shake hands or hug. New testament era believers kissed. It IS a cultural thing. Middle Eastern Christians probably STILL greet each other with a kiss. A hand shake to them might be an insult.

RabbiKnife
Dec 20th 2010, 04:55 PM
We shake hands or hug. New testament era believers kissed. It IS a cultural thing. Middle Eastern Christians probably STILL greet each other with a kiss. A hand shake to them might be an insult.

Left handed would certainly be.

kay-gee
Dec 20th 2010, 07:31 PM
In our zeal to keep scripture, I think it would be OK to exchange a HERSHEY Kiss as you greet each other. To say a prayer over the bag before hand, you could consecrate them.

all the best...

amazzin
Dec 31st 2010, 02:34 AM
Am I the only one who will say "Yes" ????

PneumaPsucheSoma
Dec 31st 2010, 03:20 AM
Am I the only one who will say "Yes" ????

So far... yes. (Except kay-gee's chocolate solution.)

amazzin
Dec 31st 2010, 03:23 AM
So far... yes. (Except kay-gee's chocolate solution.)

My dad pastored an Italian Pentecostal church. While there everyone greated each other with a Holy Kiss. Even today when I go back to visit out comes the kiss :).... heck they still take communion out of the same cup and with real wine :eek:

PneumaPsucheSoma
Dec 31st 2010, 03:30 AM
My dad pastored an Italian Pentecostal church. While there everyone greated each other with a Holy Kiss. Even today when I go back to visit out comes the kiss :).... heck they still take communion out of the same cup and with real wine :eek:

I wouldn't have issues with any of that.

Most would have a bovine about the kissin' 'n slurpin', though.

ProjectPeter
Dec 31st 2010, 03:41 AM
I wouldn't have issues with any of that.

Most would have a bovine about the kissin' 'n slurpin', though.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Slug1
Dec 31st 2010, 10:13 AM
Am I the only one who will say "Yes" ????I voted YES also. All who enter our church get a hug and a kiss on the cheek from me. All the males that I know who won't be weirded out also receive a kiss.

Everyone gets a hug from me at a minimum, even those who have just walked in off the street as visitors.

Firefighter
Dec 31st 2010, 12:41 PM
Am I the only one who will say "Yes" ????

Nope. I joined you. Be rest assured that if we ever meet, I am going to lay a big old wet sloppy kiss on ya... ;) :lol:

miepie
Dec 31st 2010, 12:52 PM
Yeah... because if you kiss me... be prepared to exercise the other biblical injunction of when being smacked... turn the other cheek!. :D
Even me????? Well be prepared then if we ever meet....... :P :kiss: :hug:


Nope. I joined you. Be rest assured that if we ever meet, I am going to lay a big old wet sloppy kiss on ya... ;) :lol:
Me too Amazzin! :pp And you too Firefighter!!!! :hug: :hug:

I don't think they'd like it here in the Netherlands and my pastor would not like it I think........ but I do kiss my elder (female) when she visits........

Love you all lots,
Mieke :kiss:

Fenris
Dec 31st 2010, 01:04 PM
We should always greet our fellow man. I am reminded of the following story from the Holocaust-


Near the city of Danzig lived a well-to-do Hasidic Rabbi, scion of prominent Hasidic dynasties. Dressed in a tailored black suit, wearing a top hat, and carrying a silver walking cane, the rabbi would take his daily morning stroll, accompanied by his tall, handsome son-in-law.

During his morning walk it was the rabbi's custom to greet every man, woman, and child whom he met on his way with a warm smile and a cordial "Good morning." Over the years the rabbi became acquainted with many of his fellow townspeople this way and would always greet them by their proper title and name.

Near the outskirts of town, in the fields, he would exchange greetings with Herr Mueller, a Polish Volksdeutsche (ethnic German). "Good morning, Herr Mueller!" the rabbi would hasten to greet the man who worked in the fields. "Good morning, Herr Rabbiner!" would come the response with a good-natured smile.

Then the war began. The rabbi's strolls stopped abruptly. Herr Mueller donned an S.S. uniform and disappeared from the fields. The fate of the rabbi was like that of much of the rest of Polish Jewry. He lost his family in the death camp of Treblinka, and, after great suffering, was deported to Auschwitz.

One day, during a selection at Auschwitz, the rabbi stood on line with hundreds of other Jews awaiting the moment when their fates would be decided, for life or death. Dressed in a striped camp uniform, head and beard shaven and eyes feverish from starvation and disease, the rabbi looked like a walking skeleton.

"Right! Left, left, left!" The voice in the distance drew nearer. Suddenly the rabbi had a great urge to see the face of the man with the snow-white gloves, small baton, and steely voice who played God and decide who should live and who should die. His lifted his eyes and heard his own voice speaking:

"Good morning, Herr Mueller!"

"Good morning, Herr Rabbiner!" responded a human voice beneath the S.S. cap adorned with skull and bones. "What are you doing here?" A faint smile appeared on the rabbi's lips. The baton moved to the right - to life. The following day, the rabbi was transferred to a safer camp.

The rabbi, now in his eighties, told me in his gentle voice, "This is the power of a good-morning greeting. A man must always greet his fellow man."

miepie
Dec 31st 2010, 01:37 PM
We should always greet our fellow man. I am reminded of the following story from the Holocaust-

Wow..... that got me goosebumps! What a story! Thanks so much for sharing this! :hug: :hug:

I live in a neighborhood where we don't know each other's name...... I wouldn't be able to tell you the name of the neighbor on my right side...... I know the one on the left side but that's it.......
and that's a shame because I'd like to spread love in this world...... so when I can't do it in real life, I am doing it here......

Love you lots my friend! :hug: You are an assett to this forum! :hug:
Mieke :kiss:

Fenris
Dec 31st 2010, 01:48 PM
Love you lots my friend! :hug: You are an assett to this forum! :hug:
Mieke :kiss:

God bless you, my dear. Your cheerfulness uplifts us all! :hug:

John146
Dec 31st 2010, 02:48 PM
All these scriptures indicate an admonition to greet one another with a holy kiss/kiss of charity. Why don't we practice this? Should we?

Rom. 16:16
1Cor. 16:29
2Cor. 13:12
1Thess. 5:26
1Peter 5:14Nah. It was a cultural thing back then. It doesn't indicate that it was something all believers should do from that time on. Remember, Paul was primarily writing to a specific audience of believers who were alive at the time so not everything he said applies to all believers from that time on (don't get me wrong, most of it does, but some of what he wrote applied specifically to the people he wrote the letters to).

Psalms Fan
Dec 31st 2010, 03:00 PM
I voted "no", but I would have preferred to vote "irrelevant". I would say that we should greet one another with a holy whatever-is-culturally-relevant-as-long-as-it's-not-immoral. In the US we typically shake hands. However, I would be opposed to a holy butt grab, even if that were the norm.

Many in my church kiss on the cheeks as a greeting, as many of them are of recent European origin. I go along with it if the person initiates, but I always go for a handshake or hug otherwise.

Vhayes
Dec 31st 2010, 04:15 PM
Fenris, thank you for that story. It made my day. The small things in life are what life is built on.
V

Fenris
Dec 31st 2010, 04:22 PM
Fenris, thank you for that story. It made my day. The small things in life are what life is built on.

Amen, sister. God bless and have a happy new year.

BroRog
Dec 31st 2010, 04:43 PM
Kay-gee nailed it the first time.
The exhortation isn't about greeting each other with a kiss, a hug, a handshake or whatever. The emphasis is on meaning behind the greeting and specifically that the greeting be without pretense. Think about the night that Jesus was betrayed. Under the guise of fellowship, Judas betrayed our Lord with a kiss. If you want to make this into a commandment, the commandment is: don't treat each other like Judas treated Jesus.

VerticalReality
Dec 31st 2010, 06:02 PM
All these scriptures indicate an admonition to greet one another with a holy kiss/kiss of charity. Why don't we practice this? Should we?

Rom. 16:16
1Cor. 16:29
2Cor. 13:12
1Thess. 5:26
1Peter 5:14

I think in our culture this is equivolent to a nice firm hand shake. Maybe even a hug if you know them well.

Firefighter
Dec 31st 2010, 06:10 PM
I think in our culture this is equivolent to a nice firm hand shake. Maybe even a hug if you know them well.

No Sir... I am going to lay one on you too if we ever meet! :P

amazzin
Dec 31st 2010, 06:13 PM
Nope. I joined you. Be rest assured that if we ever meet, I am going to lay a big old wet sloppy kiss on ya... ;) :lol:

I wear lipstick .....just saying :)

amazzin
Dec 31st 2010, 06:14 PM
Me too Amazzin! :pp And you too Firefighter!!!! :hug: :hug:

I don't think they'd like it here in the Netherlands and my pastor would not like it I think........ but I do kiss my elder (female) when she visits........

Love you all lots,
Mieke :kiss:

Great a three-some :(

Firefighter
Dec 31st 2010, 06:15 PM
I wear lipstick .....just saying :)

Only if you promise to wear your speedo and bling...

John146
Dec 31st 2010, 07:25 PM
I voted "no", but I would have preferred to vote "irrelevant". I would say that we should greet one another with a holy whatever-is-culturally-relevant-as-long-as-it's-not-immoral.How about a holy high five? :)

John146
Dec 31st 2010, 07:26 PM
No Sir... I am going to lay one on you too if we ever meet! :PI have to make sure I'm not present if you two ever meet. :D

miepie
Dec 31st 2010, 07:39 PM
Only if you promise to wear your speedo and bling...

:lol: yeah like that! Shall I post the pic? ;)

Love you very much,
Mieke :kiss:

Firefighter
Dec 31st 2010, 08:04 PM
:lol: yeah like that! Shall I post the pic? ;)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Heirphoto
Dec 31st 2010, 11:28 PM
In the Brethren Church is was customary to greet each other with the Holy Kiss. It was a real kiss, not just a hug, and exchanged by same sex members. If someone was at odds with the Church and were under the ban (shunned, back when we still did this) they would only get a hand shake. This slowly faded away after 1900. Today we usually greet each other with just a hand shake but many brothers will still exchange a hearty hug and a few of the older women will still give every one a kiss on the cheek, holding on to the Holy Kiss tradition.

When we celebrate our Love Feast twice each year (a service, footwashing, shared meal and communion) a few of the traditional men will still exchange the Holy Kiss after the footwashing but most just exchange a hearty hug, none will simply shake hands at this special remembrance of our Lord's Supper.

The more liberal Church of the Brethren seems to quickly be discarding these traditions while the more conservative Brethren and Dunkard Brethren Churches still hold onto what the Bible teaches.

Tony Miller

JohnDB
Jan 1st 2011, 12:08 AM
Lets put it this way...

I ain't kissin no guys.

But

I do know some hot babes I would love to kiss at church.

But since I got engaged I think it is better that I don't kiss anyone.

ProjectPeter
Jan 1st 2011, 12:53 AM
Lets put it this way...

I ain't kissin no guys.

But

I do know some hot babes I would love to kiss at church.

But since I got engaged I think it is better that I don't kiss anyone.

Hot babes huh?

BibleGirl02
Jan 1st 2011, 11:30 AM
We should definitely greet each other but it doesn't have to be with a kiss. I think one should keep in mind that kissing as a greeting was probably what was culturally acceptable in the Middle East at the time this was written. We should shake hands or do whatever is culturally acceptable in our part of the world now.

JohnDB
Jan 1st 2011, 02:18 PM
Hot babes huh?

Kissing a pretty woman is awesome. Beats the heck out of kissing ugly guys. It ain't about hooking up....it is all about the kiss.

Psalms Fan
Jan 1st 2011, 02:55 PM
Beats the heck out of kissing ugly guys.

It also beats the heck out of kissing ugly girls.

Slug1
Jan 1st 2011, 03:03 PM
Seems some here have no clue.

David Zaitzeff
Aug 31st 2011, 02:33 AM
Should Christians hug in greeting?

by the way, when I wrote the above question, that assumes with the qualification, that one invites to hug, by word or gesture, those about to hugged, rather than hugging so many that you include some who do not wish it.

A week or so, I wrote a post and our or my preaching friend Jimmy Gaston challenged me, suggesting that because I liked to hug, I was reading hugging into certain Bible instructions.

And so, as a result, I who am not infallible spent several days studying further the word aspazome. (Tis the word translated greet or salut in Romans 16.) Although I would like it otherwise, I don't think a person can derive a strong implication or suggestion to hug from aspamoze. Admittedly, it seems to be the case that the usual form of greeting was to hug and/or kiss in greeting, but I don't think that aspazome meant primarily to hug. (In modern Greek, it means to kiss, though, because of romans 16 and similar passages. Over time, the meaning of the word seems to have changed so that it became the means by which one was to greet, if Christian!)

If aspazome in Romans 16:16 doesn't establish directly or by implication that Christians should hug in greeting, is there any implication that Christians should do so?

At first I pondered the golden rule . . . Do to others as you would like them to do to you.

Obviously the Bible tells people to greet with a holy kiss . . . but sometimes we (or some of us) don't always follow Bible instructions literally (Christians do not normally anoint their face with oil when fasting, e.g.) . . . and if I wished to ask for a literal following, why not expect them to kiss, rather than hug, or to kiss and hug, rather than speaking of hugging?

I was pondering a few things and thinking of calling Jimmy. And the following are the thoughts that came to me . . . and if you wish, you are welcome to ponder them.

If we believe Paul in the New Testament, then, we could say that some are weak in the faith and some are strong in the faith. See Romans 14 and elsewhere. For the sake of discussion, let us temporarily think of the strong as more wise and more mature and the weak as less wise and less mature. And it is probably true that some are strong in some areas and weak in others, but that does not affect the fact that we can, on some issues, speak of some as weak and some as strong.

Lets also suppose that to hug in greeting or to kiss in greeting is a secondary or peripheral issue. Of course, because of the clear and repeated instruction, one might not consider it secondary, but compared to other larger and more important things, it is probably secondary. Usually we might think of things that are secondary as things on which the Bible is not clear, but here we have a case where, the Bible seems quite clear, but perhaps this is secondary nevertheless. And even Paul makes some things very clear in romans 14, while considering them secondary to the larger questions of the faith.

k . . . so, if it is secondary . . . and if one is a more mature Christian, then, how would one greet?

My guess is that one would accomodate others, while leaning to an affectionate greeting.

For Paul says, I became all things to all, that I might win all . . . I Cor 9:22

However, since there is the Bible instruction to kiss in greeting, and since that instruction was understood to mean to hug and kiss in greeting, we can safely believe that to hug in greeting or to kiss in greeting are at least morally neutral, or, at the worst, they were morally neutral or desirable 2000 years ago! Therefore, unless harm is being done, physically speaking, or serious misunderstanding created, tis probably ok to do what they did.

I greet a lot of people with an ambiguous greeting that can lead either to a handshake or to hugging. And I let them decide which they would like.

Would not then a "strong" Christian usually hug and/or kiss in greeting those who desire it, assuming that harm was not being done or misunderstanding being done or created? My guess is that he or she would . . . the question of when harm is being done, or when serious misunderstanding is created is left to each person in each case.

Part of the factors to be considered are the psychological studies have found physical and psychological benefits, from such things as making sure to hug 5 people a day, even when those people one might hug are as ordinary as teammates or schoolmates or nonromantic roommates or others. There was another study in the news on the Net recently indicating that sports teams that "touch" more tend to win more . . . and a few months ago, another study found that men who hug and/or kiss their wives or gfs more frequently are happier and more satisfied in their "relationships."

So, the Bible instruction in romans 16:16, taken literally, probably has at least some health and/or psychological benefits.

Of course, some are weak, and to all Paul says, Receive one another as Christ has received you, romans 14:1, 15:1 and 15:7.

David Zaitzeff
Sep 1st 2011, 05:50 PM
Also appropriate is I cor 14:40 . . . do what is edifying for those around you, but over time, and with maturity, for many people, that comes to includIe hugging in greeting or kissing in greeting . . . but I doubt that having it as a law is helpful thing, as Paul says about giving, God loves a cheerful and voluntary giver; Let him that gives gives cheerfully and not by compulsion.