PDA

View Full Version : Peter Wept?



Firstfruits
Jan 9th 2011, 09:38 AM
I am not expecting this thead to last long, I just want to know if by Peter crying that he was sorry/repentant for what he had done?

Mt 26:75 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=26&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=75) And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Mk 14:72 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=41&CHAP=14&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=72) And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

Lk 22:62 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=22&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=62) And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.

Thank you,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

EarlyCall
Jan 9th 2011, 02:14 PM
In Luke, just before what you quote from Luke, it says that Jesus turned and looked straight at Peter, and then Peter remembered what Jesus had said. What look that must have been! Yes, I believe Peter was sorry and repentant.

Brother Mark
Jan 9th 2011, 02:39 PM
Of course he was. But what about before that moment?


Matt 26:33-38
33 But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away." 34 Jesus said to him, "Truly I say to you that this very night, before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times." 35 Peter said to Him, "Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You." All the disciples said the same thing too.

36 Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to His disciples, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 37 And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be grieved and distressed. 38 Then He said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me."
NASU

Peter rebuked Jesus work and refused to receive it. Then immediately following that sin, Jesus asked Peter to remain and keep watch and pray with him. Why would Jesus ask a man that had just sinned to keep watch with him? Because that man was still saved!

Firstfruits
Jan 9th 2011, 04:56 PM
Of course he was. But what about before that moment?


Matt 26:33-38
33 But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away." 34 Jesus said to him, "Truly I say to you that this very night, before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times." 35 Peter said to Him, "Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You." All the disciples said the same thing too.

36 Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to His disciples, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 37 And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be grieved and distressed. 38 Then He said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me."
NASU

Peter rebuked Jesus work and refused to receive it. Then immediately following that sin, Jesus asked Peter to remain and keep watch and pray with him. Why would Jesus ask a man that had just sinned to keep watch with him? Because that man was still saved!

Until Peter denied Jesus, what was his sin? As it is written all the didciples said the same thing.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Jan 9th 2011, 04:57 PM
In Luke, just before what you quote from Luke, it says that Jesus turned and looked straight at Peter, and then Peter remembered what Jesus had said. What look that must have been! Yes, I believe Peter was sorry and repentant.

Thank you EarlyCall,

Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 9th 2011, 06:35 PM
Until Peter denied Jesus, what was his sin? As it is written all the didciples said the same thing.

Firstfruits

He disregarded the word of God. God said "you will do this" and he said "No Jesus. You are wrong." To call God a liar is a sin. There is also the example of Samson who sinned by marrying a philistine woman and eating from a dead carcase. Without repentance, the Spirit of God was on him in a mighty way.

Judg 14:8-19
8 When he returned later to take her, he turned aside to look at the carcass of the lion; and behold, a swarm of bees and honey were in the body of the lion. 9 So he scraped the honey into his hands and went on, eating as he went. When he came to his father and mother, he gave some to them and they ate it; but he did not tell them that he had scraped the honey out of the body of the lion.
10 Then his father went down to the woman; and Samson made a feast there, for the young men customarily did this. 11 When they saw him, they brought thirty companions to be with him.
Samson's Riddle
12 Then Samson said to them, "Let me now propound a riddle to you; if you will indeed tell it to me within the seven days of the feast, and find it out, then I will give you thirty linen wraps and thirty changes of clothes. 13 "But if you are unable to tell me, then you shall give me thirty linen wraps and thirty changes of clothes." And they said to him, "Propound your riddle, that we may hear it." 14 So he said to them,
"Out of the eater came something to eat,And out of the strong came something sweet."But they could not tell the riddle in three days.
15 Then it came about on the fourth day that they said to Samson's wife, "Entice your husband, so that he will tell us the riddle, or we will burn you and your father's house with fire. Have you invited us to impoverish us? Is this not so?" 16 Samson's wife wept before him and said, "You only hate me, and you do not love me; you have propounded a riddle to the sons of my people, and have not told it to me." And he said to her, "Behold, I have not told it to my father or mother; so should I tell you?" 17 However she wept before him seven days while their feast lasted. And on the seventh day he told her because she pressed him so hard. She then told the riddle to the sons of her people. 18 So the men of the city said to him on the seventh day before the sun went down,
"What is sweeter than honey?And what is stronger than a lion?"And he said to them,"If you had not plowed with my heifer,You would not have found out my riddle."
19 Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon him mightily, and he went down to Ashkelon and killed thirty of them and took their spoil and gave the changes of clothes to those who told the riddle. And his anger burned, and he went up to his father's house.
NASU

Firstfruits
Jan 9th 2011, 07:21 PM
He disregarded the word of God. God said "you will do this" and he said "No Jesus. You are wrong." To call God a liar is a sin. There is also the example of Samson who sinned by marrying a philistine woman and eating from a dead carcase. Without repentance, the Spirit of God was on him in a mighty way.

Judg 14:8-19
8 When he returned later to take her, he turned aside to look at the carcass of the lion; and behold, a swarm of bees and honey were in the body of the lion. 9 So he scraped the honey into his hands and went on, eating as he went. When he came to his father and mother, he gave some to them and they ate it; but he did not tell them that he had scraped the honey out of the body of the lion.
10 Then his father went down to the woman; and Samson made a feast there, for the young men customarily did this. 11 When they saw him, they brought thirty companions to be with him.
Samson's Riddle
12 Then Samson said to them, "Let me now propound a riddle to you; if you will indeed tell it to me within the seven days of the feast, and find it out, then I will give you thirty linen wraps and thirty changes of clothes. 13 "But if you are unable to tell me, then you shall give me thirty linen wraps and thirty changes of clothes." And they said to him, "Propound your riddle, that we may hear it." 14 So he said to them,
"Out of the eater came something to eat,And out of the strong came something sweet."But they could not tell the riddle in three days.
15 Then it came about on the fourth day that they said to Samson's wife, "Entice your husband, so that he will tell us the riddle, or we will burn you and your father's house with fire. Have you invited us to impoverish us? Is this not so?" 16 Samson's wife wept before him and said, "You only hate me, and you do not love me; you have propounded a riddle to the sons of my people, and have not told it to me." And he said to her, "Behold, I have not told it to my father or mother; so should I tell you?" 17 However she wept before him seven days while their feast lasted. And on the seventh day he told her because she pressed him so hard. She then told the riddle to the sons of her people. 18 So the men of the city said to him on the seventh day before the sun went down,
"What is sweeter than honey?And what is stronger than a lion?"And he said to them,"If you had not plowed with my heifer,You would not have found out my riddle."
19 Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon him mightily, and he went down to Ashkelon and killed thirty of them and took their spoil and gave the changes of clothes to those who told the riddle. And his anger burned, and he went up to his father's house.
NASU

As it is written all the disciples said the same thing, so they were all guilty of the same thing if that is the case.

Does that mean that we should not confess the name of Jesus before men, and what does it mean to deny Jesus before men?

Mt 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Mt 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 9th 2011, 07:23 PM
As it is written all the disciples said the same thing, so they were all guilty of the same thing if that is the case.

Jesus didn't tell all of them they would deny him. He only told Peter. Peter disagreed with the word of the Lord. The other apostles did not. Peter sinned by not heeding the word of the Lord. The other disciples had no word to ignore.

What about Samson?

Judg 14:8-19
8 When he returned later to take her, he turned aside to look at the carcass of the lion; and behold, a swarm of bees and honey were in the body of the lion. 9 So he scraped the honey into his hands and went on, eating as he went. When he came to his father and mother, he gave some to them and they ate it; but he did not tell them that he had scraped the honey out of the body of the lion.
10 Then his father went down to the woman; and Samson made a feast there, for the young men customarily did this. 11 When they saw him, they brought thirty companions to be with him.
Samson's Riddle
12 Then Samson said to them, "Let me now propound a riddle to you; if you will indeed tell it to me within the seven days of the feast, and find it out, then I will give you thirty linen wraps and thirty changes of clothes. 13 "But if you are unable to tell me, then you shall give me thirty linen wraps and thirty changes of clothes." And they said to him, "Propound your riddle, that we may hear it." 14 So he said to them,
"Out of the eater came something to eat,And out of the strong came something sweet."But they could not tell the riddle in three days.
15 Then it came about on the fourth day that they said to Samson's wife, "Entice your husband, so that he will tell us the riddle, or we will burn you and your father's house with fire. Have you invited us to impoverish us? Is this not so?" 16 Samson's wife wept before him and said, "You only hate me, and you do not love me; you have propounded a riddle to the sons of my people, and have not told it to me." And he said to her, "Behold, I have not told it to my father or mother; so should I tell you?" 17 However she wept before him seven days while their feast lasted. And on the seventh day he told her because she pressed him so hard. She then told the riddle to the sons of her people. 18 So the men of the city said to him on the seventh day before the sun went down,
"What is sweeter than honey?And what is stronger than a lion?"And he said to them,"If you had not plowed with my heifer,You would not have found out my riddle."
19 Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon him mightily, and he went down to Ashkelon and killed thirty of them and took their spoil and gave the changes of clothes to those who told the riddle. And his anger burned, and he went up to his father's house.
NASU

Ta-An
Jan 9th 2011, 07:54 PM
In Luke, just before what you quote from Luke, it says that Jesus turned and looked straight at Peter, and then Peter remembered what Jesus had said. What look that must have been! Yes, I believe Peter was sorry and repentant..... a look of compassion perhaps??:hmm: For He knows us.... like a father telling his child what will happen..... and it then happens... he can only stand back and look...

And I am sure,,,, Peter in that moment might have realized....The LORD is his righteousness :)

Firstfruits
Jan 9th 2011, 08:07 PM
Jesus didn't tell all of them they would deny him. He only told Peter. Peter disagreed with the word of the Lord. The other apostles did not. Peter sinned by not heeding the word of the Lord. The other disciples had no word to ignore.

What about Samson?

Judg 14:8-19
8 When he returned later to take her, he turned aside to look at the carcass of the lion; and behold, a swarm of bees and honey were in the body of the lion. 9 So he scraped the honey into his hands and went on, eating as he went. When he came to his father and mother, he gave some to them and they ate it; but he did not tell them that he had scraped the honey out of the body of the lion.
10 Then his father went down to the woman; and Samson made a feast there, for the young men customarily did this. 11 When they saw him, they brought thirty companions to be with him.
Samson's Riddle
12 Then Samson said to them, "Let me now propound a riddle to you; if you will indeed tell it to me within the seven days of the feast, and find it out, then I will give you thirty linen wraps and thirty changes of clothes. 13 "But if you are unable to tell me, then you shall give me thirty linen wraps and thirty changes of clothes." And they said to him, "Propound your riddle, that we may hear it." 14 So he said to them,
"Out of the eater came something to eat,And out of the strong came something sweet."But they could not tell the riddle in three days.
15 Then it came about on the fourth day that they said to Samson's wife, "Entice your husband, so that he will tell us the riddle, or we will burn you and your father's house with fire. Have you invited us to impoverish us? Is this not so?" 16 Samson's wife wept before him and said, "You only hate me, and you do not love me; you have propounded a riddle to the sons of my people, and have not told it to me." And he said to her, "Behold, I have not told it to my father or mother; so should I tell you?" 17 However she wept before him seven days while their feast lasted. And on the seventh day he told her because she pressed him so hard. She then told the riddle to the sons of her people. 18 So the men of the city said to him on the seventh day before the sun went down,
"What is sweeter than honey?And what is stronger than a lion?"And he said to them,"If you had not plowed with my heifer,You would not have found out my riddle."
19 Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon him mightily, and he went down to Ashkelon and killed thirty of them and took their spoil and gave the changes of clothes to those who told the riddle. And his anger burned, and he went up to his father's house.
NASU

First an foremost we are taught the following:

1 Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

1 Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Just because God used those that have sinned to complete his will does not change the message not to sin and to love one another.

Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 9th 2011, 08:11 PM
First an foremost we are taught the following:

1 Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

1 Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Just because God used those that have sinned to complete his will does not change the message not to sin and to love one another.

Firstfruits

Now your talking! God doesn't disown us when we sin as Samson and Peter prove. He still uses us. Sin always cost us and it is never justified.

Firstfruits
Jan 9th 2011, 08:27 PM
Now your talking! God doesn't disown us when we sin as Samson and Peter prove. He still uses us. Sin always cost us and it is never justified.

Our first message must be "that ye sin not" would you agree?

As I said, just because God has used those that have sinned does not justify the sin.

Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 9th 2011, 08:29 PM
Our first message must be "that ye sin not" would you agree?

No. Our first message should be love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. Our focus should be on God first and foremost.


As I said, just because God has used those that have sinned does not justify the sin.

No one is justifying sin. Never has happened in this thread that I am aware of. One can acknowledge that God doesn't disown a man because he sins and that he will still use that man mightily in spite of his sin. Scripture proves that with Samson.

Firstfruits
Jan 9th 2011, 08:34 PM
No. Our first message should be love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. Our focus should be on God first and foremost.



No one is justifying sin. Never has happened in this thread that I am aware of. One can acknowledge that God doesn't disown a man because he sins and that he will still use that man mightily in spite of his sin. Scripture proves that with Samson.

And what happens if after God has used that man and that man does not repent of his sin?

Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 9th 2011, 08:35 PM
And what happens if after God has used that man and that man does not repent of his sin?

Firstfruits

God disciplines him like he did Israel. They sinned for 490 years by not keeping the sabbath years and still he did not cut them off.

Firstfruits
Jan 9th 2011, 08:37 PM
God disciplines him like he did Israel. They sinned for 490 years by not keeping the sabbath years and still he did not cut them off.

And what if they die in their sin, without repenting?

Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 9th 2011, 08:38 PM
And what is they die in their sin, without repenting?

Firstfruits

The question isn't if they die with unrepentant sin. The question is did they die saved or not. Had Samson died between the time he broke his vow and the SPirit of God came mightily upon him, he would have went to heaven. The Spirit of God does not fall mightily upon lost people in such a way.

Firstfruits
Jan 9th 2011, 08:48 PM
The question isn't if they die with unrepentant sin. The question is did they die saved or not. Had Samson died between the time he broke his vow and the SPirit of God came mightily upon him, he would have went to heaven. The Spirit of God does not fall mightily upon lost people in such a way.

I know I have asked this already, but with all that we know about sin and it's consequences what are we saved from?

Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 9th 2011, 08:53 PM
I know I have asked this already, but with all that we know about sin and it's consequences what are we saved from?

Firstfruits

I answered it in the other thread.

If Samson had died after breaking his vow by eating from the carcase, would he have went to heaven? Will the Holy Spirit fall upon a lost man like he did on Samson?

Firstfruits
Jan 9th 2011, 09:04 PM
I answered it in the other thread.

If Samson had died after breaking his vow by eating from the carcase, would he have went to heaven? Will the Holy Spirit fall upon a lost man like he did on Samson?

I do not recall that breaking the vow caused Samson to stop being of God, however he would have to do what was needed because the vow was broken.

Should we take the chance?

Firstfruits

Mark F
Jan 9th 2011, 10:41 PM
No. Our first message should be love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. Our focus should be on God first and foremost.



No one is justifying sin. Never has happened in this thread that I am aware of. One can acknowledge that God doesn't disown a man because he sins and that he will still use that man mightily in spite of his sin. Scripture proves that with Samson.

I agree with your first point, but what about Ananias and Sapphira? I am puzzled as well with your example of Samson, the Spirit of God left Samson and yes he had great faith which God honored, but he did nothing for Israel in his twenty years as a judge. I believe David might be a better example.

Brother Mark
Jan 9th 2011, 10:49 PM
I agree with your first point, but what about Ananias and Sapphira? I am puzzled as well with your example of Samson, the Spirit of God left Samson and yes he had great faith which God honored, but he did nothing for Israel in his twenty years as a judge. I believe David might be a better example.

The Spirit of God did not leave Samson when he broke his vow by eating the honey from a dead carcase. After he sinned by doing so, the holy Spirit fell upon him in power. Also, Samson was included as an example of faith in Hebrews 11.

Ananias and Sapphira are a good warning. Is there a sin unto death? Yep. James and 1 Cor. 11 warn us about that.

Firstfruits
Jan 10th 2011, 01:13 PM
The Spirit of God did not leave Samson when he broke his vow by eating the honey from a dead carcase. After he sinned by doing so, the holy Spirit fell upon him in power. Also, Samson was included as an example of faith in Hebrews 11.

Ananias and Sapphira are a good warning. Is there a sin unto death? Yep. James and 1 Cor. 11 warn us about that.

With regards to the following the only sin that is unto death is Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Why would we need to ask in order for that person to have life?

1 Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1 Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Mt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Since this is speaking to Believers, is it saying that a believer that sins risk loosing life?

Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 10th 2011, 01:15 PM
With regards to the following the only sin that is unto death is Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Why would we need to ask in order for that person to have life?

1 Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1 Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Mt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Since this is speaking to Believers, is it saying that a believer that sins risk loosing life?

Firstfruits

Hebrews 6 tells us the same thing does it not? Once it's a sin unto death, no need to pray for that person. It's over.

Firstfruits
Jan 10th 2011, 01:53 PM
Hebrews 6 tells us the same thing does it not? Once it's a sin unto death, no need to pray for that person. It's over.

Why should we pray for a brother at all, if they cannot lose their salvation, and do not have to fear God's wrath?

Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 10th 2011, 02:02 PM
Why should we pray for a brother at all, if they cannot lose their salvation, and do not have to fear God's wrath?

Firstfruits

Here have I said they can't lose it? And where have I said sin has no cost? 1 John says not to pray for someone if they have sinned unto death. I didn't say that. The apostle did.

What I have maintained...

One sin, even unrepented of, will not cause God to disown us.

This is shown with Samson, Lot, Peter, Israel, and many, many more.

If he ever does disown you, it's over. There's no going back. This is spoken of in Peter and in Hebrews.

Firstfruits
Jan 10th 2011, 02:08 PM
Here have I said they can't lose it? And where have I said sin has no cost? 1 John says not to pray for someone if they have sinned unto death. I didn't say that. The apostle did.

What I have maintained...

One sin, even unrepented of, will not cause God to disown us.

This is shown with Samson, Lot, Peter, Israel, and many, many more.

If he ever does disown you, it's over. There's no going back. This is spoken of in Peter and in Hebrews.

What does it take for God to "disown" us that we should fear his wrath?

One act of murder, idolatry, lying, an act of abomination will not affect us?

Firstfruits



Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 10th 2011, 02:19 PM
What does it take for God to "disown" us that we should fear his wrath?

When did God cut Israel off?


One act of murder, idolatry, lying, an act of abomination will not affect us?

Of course it affects us. But it doesn't make us lose our salvation.

When David murdered, he didn't ask for his salvation back. He asked for the joy of his salvation back. His bones were crushed during the chastisement. His sin was ever before him. God's hand was heavy upon him because God was spanking him. Why did God spank him? Because David was God's son and David had sinned. If he was no longer God's son, God would not have spanked him.


Heb 12:7-8

7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
NASU

Firstfruits
Jan 10th 2011, 02:25 PM
When did God cut Israel off?



Of course it affects us. But it doesn't make us lose our salvation.

When David murdered, he didn't ask for his salvation back. He asked for the joy of his salvation back. His bones were crushed during the chastisement. His sin was ever before him. God's hand was heavy upon him because God was spanking him. Why did God spank him? Because David was God's son and David had sinned. If he was no longer God's son, God would not have spanked him.


Heb 12:7-8

7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
NASU

How then would you explain the following scriptures?

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Does Jesus not mean what he said?

Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 10th 2011, 02:29 PM
How then would you explain the following scriptures?

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Does Jesus not mean what he said?

Firstfruits

Abraham lied and he's there. David murdered and he's there. One can lie without being a liar.

Peter was completely clean. But he still needed his feet washed. Had his feet not been washed, he still was completely clean and would have entered into heaven. A believer can tell a lie and be clean but his feet (that part of him that is closest to the world) will still need to be cleaned.

John 13:5-11

5 Then He poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. 6 So He came to Simon Peter. He said to Him, "Lord, do You wash my feet?" 7 Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter." 8 Peter said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, " If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me." 9 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head." 10 Jesus said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." 11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, "Not all of you are clean."
NASU

The only one not clean was Judas. He was lost.

Hebrews tells us Jesus won't die again for a man that loses his salvation. There is no second offering for sin.

Firstfruits
Jan 10th 2011, 02:41 PM
Abraham lied and he's there. David murdered and he's there. One can lie without being a liar.

Peter was completely clean. But he still needed his feet washed. Had his feet not been washed, he still was completely clean and would have entered into heaven. A believer can tell a lie and be clean but his feet (that part of him that is closest to the world) will still need to be cleaned.

John 13:5-11

5 Then He poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. 6 So He came to Simon Peter. He said to Him, "Lord, do You wash my feet?" 7 Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter." 8 Peter said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, " If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me." 9 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head." 10 Jesus said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." 11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, "Not all of you are clean."
NASU

The only one not clean was Judas. He was lost.

Hebrews tells us Jesus won't die again for a man that loses his salvation. There is no second offering for sin.

Doing one act of what keeps us out of heaven will not keep us out of heaven, does that person not need to repent?

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Firstfruits

RollTide21
Jan 10th 2011, 02:51 PM
And what if they die in their sin, without repenting?

FirstfruitsWait. Your proof of someone repenting is feeling guilt. You evidenced this with Peter weeping. Nowhere does Scripture say that Peter confessed and asked for forgiveness at that point. It merely says that he wept. This is obviously because he felt horrible guilt.

By your own standard of measurement, repentance is simply feeling the shame of sin. I disagree. I believe that repentance requires shame, followed by surrender, followed by a submission of the sin to God for cleansing.

As for Peter's salvation, this is a great support passage for God's Grace. Peter was broken and shamed because of his sin. This is what happens to a saved person when they sin. The Spirit chides and breaks him. This brings about repentance.

Brother Mark
Jan 10th 2011, 02:52 PM
Doing one act of what keeps us out of heaven will not keep us out of heaven, does that person not need to repent?

Not sure I understand the question. But sure, we all need to have our feet cleaned. Sometimes we walk too close to the world and our feet get dirty even though we are completely clean in the Lord. Repentance and confession are good for cleaning feet.


Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Firstfruits

Abraham lied. But he wasn't a liar. He was a child of God. God even called him a prophet to the man he lied to and before he had repented! The man he lied to then went and rebuked Abraham. Abraham prayed for him and he was healed.


Gen 20:1-7
Now Abraham journeyed from there toward the land of the Negev, and settled between Kadesh and Shur; then he sojourned in Gerar. 2 Abraham said of Sarah his wife, " She is my sister." So Abimelech king of Gerar sent and took Sarah. 3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream of the night, and said to him, "Behold, you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is married." 4 Now Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, "Lord, will You slay a nation, even though blameless? 5 "Did he not himself say to me, 'She is my sister'? And she herself said, 'He is my brother.' In the integrity of my heart and the innocence of my hands I have done this." 6 Then God said to him in the dream, "Yes, I know that in the integrity of your heart you have done this, and I also kept you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her. 7 "Now therefore, restore the man's wife, for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you will live. But if you do not restore her, know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours."
NASU

God didn't say "Abraham was a prophet". Nope. Even though Abraham was still living in a lie God said he IS a prophet. Abraham offered his wife to the king. Does that make him a willing accomplice to adultery too? Yet, God called him a prophet while he was doing this sin.

RollTide21
Jan 10th 2011, 03:01 PM
How then would you explain the following scriptures?

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Does Jesus not mean what he said?

FirstfruitsSure He did. He just didn't mean what YOU think he meant. Those sinners are those that have not placed their Faith and trust in Christ. It's not referring to people who have committed one of those sins.

Firstfruits
Jan 10th 2011, 03:19 PM
Sure He did. He just didn't mean what YOU think he meant. Those sinners are those that have not placed their Faith and trust in Christ. It's not referring to people who have committed one of those sins.

So if a believer commits on of those sins there is no need to repent of that sin, if so is that not hypocritical?

1 Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Is there a sin for the righteous and one for the unrighteous?

Firstfruits

RollTide21
Jan 10th 2011, 07:06 PM
So if a believer commits on of those sins there is no need to repent of that sin, if so is that not hypocritical?

1 Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Is there a sin for the righteous and one for the unrighteous?

FirstfruitsYes. There is a need to repent of that sin if one wants to maintain fellowship with God. But...that sin will not separate Him from the Father.

Sin is sin. The one declared righteous by Faith has an Advocate before the Father. The unrighteous does not.

Firstfruits
Jan 10th 2011, 09:43 PM
Yes. There is a need to repent of that sin if one wants to maintain fellowship with God. But...that sin will not separate Him from the Father.

Sin is sin. The one declared righteous by Faith has an Advocate before the Father. The unrighteous does not.

So If that person does not repent, what happens at judgment day?

Firstfruits