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TomaxandXamot
Jan 11th 2011, 11:44 PM
http://www.av1611.org/images/genesis2.gif

by Terry Watkins



"We conclude that the proximity of ELS's (Equidistant Letter Sequences) with related meanings in the Book of Genesis is NOT DUE TO CHANCE."
("Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis", Statistical Science, August 1994, p.434 )
"The phenomenon cannot be attributed to ANYTHING within the KNOWN PHYSICAL UNIVERSE, human beings included."
("Divine Authorship?", Biblical Review, October 1995, p.45)
Three mathematical statisticians, Doron Witztum, Eliyahu Rips and Yoav Rosenberg of the Jerusalem College of Technology and the Hebrew University, discovered words encoded in the Genesis text that was humanly impossible!
For they found related names, events and dates from the nineteenth century!
Only someone who knows the future could have placed them there!
The three mathematicians submitted their findings to the prestigious scientific journal Statistical Science for publishing, Editor Robert Kass, said:


"Our referees were baffled: their prior beliefs made them think the Book of Genesis could not POSSIBLY contain meaningful references to modern day individuals, yet when the authors carried out additional analyses and checks the effect persisted." ("Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis", Statistical Science, August 1994, p.306 )
Here's the details of their amazing discovery:
The Hebrew text of Genesis (the textus receptus or Masoretic text, which ONLY the King James Bible is from, ALL new versions use other texts) was converted to a continual string of letters. The letters were placed into a two-dimensional array, which simply means, the letters were divided into rows, each row containing a certain number of letters. For example:

(row 1) KHASDSERYQDWHADIKOTESNSINFGBE (row 2) HOKNFRWDSCKAPMIENNFUMIEUBEYIC (row 3) JOLMSUDBDYIWIDIDNEYOPGHEBEBVX
Using computers, they then searched the Hebrew text. They discovered words composed of letters at various equal skip distances, or "equidistant letter sequences". For example, every second, third or fourth letter formed the encoded words. The word "house" might look like this:

(every second letter) HXOXUXSXE (every third letter) HXXOXXUXXSXXE

Simply finding encoded words is nothing unusual. . .

But they discovered something that was!
In "close proximity" were related word-pairs. For example, the researchers found the name "Zedekiah" (a sixth century B.C. king of Judah) and in "close proximity" was the word "Mantanya" which was Zedekiah's original name! They found "Hanukkah" (the Jewish festival that commemorates the re-dedication of the Temple after it was recaptured from the Assyrians in the second century B.C.) and in close proximity was the word "Hasmoneans" which was the family name of the leaders of the Jewish armies that took the temple from the Assyrians for which Hanukkah celebrates!

It was humanly impossible for the author of Genesis to know this in 2300 B.C.! Not to mention the impossibility of encoding meaningful related "equidistant letters" into a text and then the text itself make sense!
The researchers selected, at random, 300 such related Hebrew word-pairs from names and events that occurred hundreds and thousands of years after Genesis was written. And of these 300 related name-event pairs.
ALL 300 WERE FOUND!Looking for some coincidental explanation they searched for the word-pairs in simple randomized tests! But they were not found! The word-pairs were ONLY found in close proximity to each other proving irrefutably that the encoded word-pairs were not coincident or accident but were intellectually encoded by a superior intelligence!
The scientists stated the statistical odds of this occurring by chance are less than 1 in 50 quadrillion that's 1 in 50,000,000,000,000,000! According to scientific analysis a finding of less than 1 in 20 is significant!

One fact is crystal clear -- the Author of Genesis was not human!

Biblical Review magazine, commenting on these findings stated:
"The capacity to embed so many, meaningfully related, randomly selected word-pairs in a body of text with a coherent surface meaning is stupendously beyond the intellectual capacity of ANY HUMAN BEING or group of people, however brilliant, and equally beyond the capacity of ANY CONCEIVABLE COMPUTING DEVICE." ("Divine Authorship?", Biblical Review, October 1995, p.31)

Five distinguished mathematical scholars, two from Harvard, two from Hebrew University and one from Yale, issued the following statement:
"The present work represents serious research carried out by serious investigators. Since the interpretation of the phenomenon in question is enigmatic and controversial, one may want to demand a level of statistical significance beyond what would be demanded for more routine conclusions... [T]he results obtained are sufficiently striking to deserve a wider audience and to encourage further study." (Biblical Review,"Divine Authorship?", October 1995, p.31)

More demanding tests were performed ...

And more discoveries were found!
The skeptical scientists went one step further. . . Instead of searching for simple pairs of related words, they took the Hebrew reference book, The Encyclopedia of Great Men in Israel (Margalioth, M., ed. (1961)) and found the 34 most prominent men in Israeli history from the ninth to the nineteenth centuries! They paired the names with the day of birth or death (Hebrew numbers are represented as letters). The author of Genesis could not possibly foresee these men 4,000 years before their birth and definitely not their birth or death date -- UNLESS THE AUTHOR WAS GOD!
Using the computer analysis, the scientists searched the Hebrew text for the 34 name-date pairs. Remember, they had to be "equidistant" and in "close proximity" to register a "hit". And how many did they find?
EVERY ONE!

ALL 34 NAMES AND DATES WERE FOUND!!!

The bewildered scientists were baffled!

This was not HUMANLY possible!

Not believing what they were seeing they repeated the test. They picked the next 34 most prominent men from the encyclopedia. Because the dates of the death for 2 of these men were not known, the second test included 32 men. And how many did they find?

ALL 32 WERE FOUND!!!
There is not the least possible chance that these findings were an accident!

Someone with a far superior intelligence than you or I had to have encoded these prophetic names, dates, and events!

Statistical Science concluded:


"We conclude that the proximity of ELS's (Equidistant Letter Sequences) with related meanings in the Book of Genesis is NOT DUE TO CHANCE." ("Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis", Statistical Science, August 1994, p.434 )Biblical Review stated:


"The phenomenon cannot be attributed to ANYTHING within the KNOWN PHYSICAL UNIVERSE, human beings included." ("Divine Authorship?", Biblical Review, October 1995, p.45) In other words there is only ONE possible explanation GOD!
Biblical Review also stated:


"What then was the purpose of encoding this information into the text? Some would say it is the Author's signature. Is it His way of assuring us that at this particular, late moment-when our scientific, materialistic doubt has reached its apotheosis, when we have been driven to the brink of radical skepticism- that He is precisely who He had said He is. . ." ("Divine Authorship?", Biblical Review, October 1995, p.45)
The researchers ran the same tests using the Samaritan Pentateuch, which is slightly different from the textus receptus or Masoretic text. According to Biblical Review (p.44) "the phenomenon was UTTERLY LACKING in letter-level variants. . ." They also tested other texts sacred and secular but no such findings existed in ANY OTHER TEXT! Only the textus receptus! The textus receptus is the text for the King James Bible! The new versions do not use the textus receptus. The new versions are NOT the words of God! (Contact us for more information on the new versions).
Friend, there is no doubt the King James Bible is the word of God.
And there is no doubt you will one day stand before God.
The Bible says in Hebrews 9:27, "And as it is APPOINTED unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGEMENT."

The Bible continually warns of a place called hell:
"And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 13:42

"The smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for EVER AND EVER: and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT." Revelation 14:11

Jesus Christ took hell very serious. To Him, hell was no laughing matter. Jesus Christ says in Matthew 5:29, "If thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

If hell is not real, Jesus Christ was the most deceived man that ever lived! I'll challenge anyone to read the words of Jesus Christ and tell me they are the words of a deceived man! Jesus Christ knew exactly what He was talking about.

Friend, God does not want YOU in hell.
Matthew 25:41 says that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels not for YOU!

God loved you so much He gave His own Son, Jesus Christ, to die in YOUR place, to pay for YOUR sin, and to keep YOU out of hell!

"For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

One day you will die... today... tomorrow... next week... next month... next year... 10 years... 50 years

<B>

tango
Jan 12th 2011, 12:45 AM
Sounds very much like the Bible Code that was all the rage a few years back. It's easy to retrospectively find stuff like that, I remember one article where someone managed to pull a prediction about a princess and an Arab in a car that hit a wall out of the text of Moby Dick. Of course they did that after the deaths of Princess Diana and Dodi Fayed when their car hit the wall in Paris.

Reynolds357
Jan 12th 2011, 12:51 AM
http://www.av1611.org/images/genesis2.gif

by Terry Watkins



"We conclude that the proximity of ELS's (Equidistant Letter Sequences) with related meanings in the Book of Genesis is NOT DUE TO CHANCE."
("Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis", Statistical Science, August 1994, p.434 )
"The phenomenon cannot be attributed to ANYTHING within the KNOWN PHYSICAL UNIVERSE, human beings included."
("Divine Authorship?", Biblical Review, October 1995, p.45)
Three mathematical statisticians, Doron Witztum, Eliyahu Rips and Yoav Rosenberg of the Jerusalem College of Technology and the Hebrew University, discovered words encoded in the Genesis text that was humanly impossible!
For they found related names, events and dates from the nineteenth century!
Only someone who knows the future could have placed them there!
The three mathematicians submitted their findings to the prestigious scientific journal Statistical Science for publishing, Editor Robert Kass, said:


"Our referees were baffled: their prior beliefs made them think the Book of Genesis could not POSSIBLY contain meaningful references to modern day individuals, yet when the authors carried out additional analyses and checks the effect persisted." ("Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis", Statistical Science, August 1994, p.306 )
Here's the details of their amazing discovery:
The Hebrew text of Genesis (the textus receptus or Masoretic text, which ONLY the King James Bible is from, ALL new versions use other texts) was converted to a continual string of letters. The letters were placed into a two-dimensional array, which simply means, the letters were divided into rows, each row containing a certain number of letters. For example:

(row 1) KHASDSERYQDWHADIKOTESNSINFGBE (row 2) HOKNFRWDSCKAPMIENNFUMIEUBEYIC (row 3) JOLMSUDBDYIWIDIDNEYOPGHEBEBVX
Using computers, they then searched the Hebrew text. They discovered words composed of letters at various equal skip distances, or "equidistant letter sequences". For example, every second, third or fourth letter formed the encoded words. The word "house" might look like this:

(every second letter) HXOXUXSXE (every third letter) HXXOXXUXXSXXE

Simply finding encoded words is nothing unusual. . .

But they discovered something that was!
In "close proximity" were related word-pairs. For example, the researchers found the name "Zedekiah" (a sixth century B.C. king of Judah) and in "close proximity" was the word "Mantanya" which was Zedekiah's original name! They found "Hanukkah" (the Jewish festival that commemorates the re-dedication of the Temple after it was recaptured from the Assyrians in the second century B.C.) and in close proximity was the word "Hasmoneans" which was the family name of the leaders of the Jewish armies that took the temple from the Assyrians for which Hanukkah celebrates!

It was humanly impossible for the author of Genesis to know this in 2300 B.C.! Not to mention the impossibility of encoding meaningful related "equidistant letters" into a text and then the text itself make sense!
The researchers selected, at random, 300 such related Hebrew word-pairs from names and events that occurred hundreds and thousands of years after Genesis was written. And of these 300 related name-event pairs.
ALL 300 WERE FOUND!Looking for some coincidental explanation they searched for the word-pairs in simple randomized tests! But they were not found! The word-pairs were ONLY found in close proximity to each other proving irrefutably that the encoded word-pairs were not coincident or accident but were intellectually encoded by a superior intelligence!
The scientists stated the statistical odds of this occurring by chance are less than 1 in 50 quadrillion that's 1 in 50,000,000,000,000,000! According to scientific analysis a finding of less than 1 in 20 is significant!

One fact is crystal clear -- the Author of Genesis was not human!

Biblical Review magazine, commenting on these findings stated:
"The capacity to embed so many, meaningfully related, randomly selected word-pairs in a body of text with a coherent surface meaning is stupendously beyond the intellectual capacity of ANY HUMAN BEING or group of people, however brilliant, and equally beyond the capacity of ANY CONCEIVABLE COMPUTING DEVICE." ("Divine Authorship?", Biblical Review, October 1995, p.31)

Five distinguished mathematical scholars, two from Harvard, two from Hebrew University and one from Yale, issued the following statement:
"The present work represents serious research carried out by serious investigators. Since the interpretation of the phenomenon in question is enigmatic and controversial, one may want to demand a level of statistical significance beyond what would be demanded for more routine conclusions... [T]he results obtained are sufficiently striking to deserve a wider audience and to encourage further study." (Biblical Review,"Divine Authorship?", October 1995, p.31)

More demanding tests were performed ...

And more discoveries were found!
The skeptical scientists went one step further. . . Instead of searching for simple pairs of related words, they took the Hebrew reference book, The Encyclopedia of Great Men in Israel (Margalioth, M., ed. (1961)) and found the 34 most prominent men in Israeli history from the ninth to the nineteenth centuries! They paired the names with the day of birth or death (Hebrew numbers are represented as letters). The author of Genesis could not possibly foresee these men 4,000 years before their birth and definitely not their birth or death date -- UNLESS THE AUTHOR WAS GOD!
Using the computer analysis, the scientists searched the Hebrew text for the 34 name-date pairs. Remember, they had to be "equidistant" and in "close proximity" to register a "hit". And how many did they find?
EVERY ONE!

ALL 34 NAMES AND DATES WERE FOUND!!!

The bewildered scientists were baffled!

This was not HUMANLY possible!

Not believing what they were seeing they repeated the test. They picked the next 34 most prominent men from the encyclopedia. Because the dates of the death for 2 of these men were not known, the second test included 32 men. And how many did they find?

ALL 32 WERE FOUND!!!
There is not the least possible chance that these findings were an accident!

Someone with a far superior intelligence than you or I had to have encoded these prophetic names, dates, and events!

Statistical Science concluded:


"We conclude that the proximity of ELS's (Equidistant Letter Sequences) with related meanings in the Book of Genesis is NOT DUE TO CHANCE." ("Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis", Statistical Science, August 1994, p.434 )Biblical Review stated:


"The phenomenon cannot be attributed to ANYTHING within the KNOWN PHYSICAL UNIVERSE, human beings included." ("Divine Authorship?", Biblical Review, October 1995, p.45) In other words there is only ONE possible explanation GOD!
Biblical Review also stated:


"What then was the purpose of encoding this information into the text? Some would say it is the Author's signature. Is it His way of assuring us that at this particular, late moment-when our scientific, materialistic doubt has reached its apotheosis, when we have been driven to the brink of radical skepticism- that He is precisely who He had said He is. . ." ("Divine Authorship?", Biblical Review, October 1995, p.45)
The researchers ran the same tests using the Samaritan Pentateuch, which is slightly different from the textus receptus or Masoretic text. According to Biblical Review (p.44) "the phenomenon was UTTERLY LACKING in letter-level variants. . ." They also tested other texts sacred and secular but no such findings existed in ANY OTHER TEXT! Only the textus receptus! The textus receptus is the text for the King James Bible! The new versions do not use the textus receptus. The new versions are NOT the words of God! (Contact us for more information on the new versions).
Friend, there is no doubt the King James Bible is the word of God.
And there is no doubt you will one day stand before God.
The Bible says in Hebrews 9:27, "And as it is APPOINTED unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGEMENT."

The Bible continually warns of a place called hell:
"And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 13:42

"The smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for EVER AND EVER: and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT." Revelation 14:11

Jesus Christ took hell very serious. To Him, hell was no laughing matter. Jesus Christ says in Matthew 5:29, "If thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

If hell is not real, Jesus Christ was the most deceived man that ever lived! I'll challenge anyone to read the words of Jesus Christ and tell me they are the words of a deceived man! Jesus Christ knew exactly what He was talking about.

Friend, God does not want YOU in hell.
Matthew 25:41 says that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels not for YOU!

God loved you so much He gave His own Son, Jesus Christ, to die in YOUR place, to pay for YOUR sin, and to keep YOU out of hell!

"For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

One day you will die... today... tomorrow... next week... next month... next year... 10 years... 50 years

<B>

I was all into the Bible code at one time. Now I just consider it an oddity that may or may not be factual.

ZDOxcar
Jan 12th 2011, 02:27 AM
There is actually nothing special about finding "names" in the Bible. It is NOT "highly unlikely" that a name will appear in the Bible via ELS. To see why, let's look at just the Pentateuch, which contains over 300000 letters. Eventhough a six-letter name has only a 1 in 300,000,000 chance of being randomly found, but the number of six-letter sequences contained in the Pentateuch is over 18,000,000,000. Do the math, you pick ANY six-letter name and it will appear in the Pentateuch about 160 times. So, for example, if you find "Reagan" in the Pentateuch it is not "astronomically unlikely that it appears" but rather the opposite - it is so likely that it will appear that you'll find it about 160 times. The same type of probability arguments also apply to any name you choose.

The ELS proponents are simply not using sound probability analysis.

I wrote a computer application to retrieve the gematria code for every word in the Bible and my slow computer can compute these codes in less than 1 second. If you'd like, I can write a computer application to implement ELS. All you have to do is give me a text file that contains approximately the same number of letters as the Bible and I guarantee you my program can find all kinds of interesting names. The text file can be say the text for "Moby Dick" and such.

There's really nothing to ELS,

ZD

-SEEKING-
Jan 12th 2011, 02:39 AM
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10.....

JohnDB
Jan 12th 2011, 02:41 AM
Kabbalah though is an offshoot Jewish sect that centers on this. They are considered the rich wackos that follow this sect.

RevLogos
Jan 12th 2011, 04:31 AM
Statistical Science is not one of those intensely dry technical publications. Itís more of a trade journal.

The OP quotes Robert Kass, the editor for Statistical Science. He is also quoted in the New York Times as saying about papers that Statistical Science accepts: "We hope that the material in them is correct but we also try to publish pieces that are amusing to a wide variety of statisticians."

Yes this was interesting and amusing to a lot of statisticians. The OP doesnít state that a comprehensive rebuttal was presented in the same publication in 1999.

The above post is quite correct. With over 300,000 letters, and with equidistant spacing that can be anywhere from 2 to 5000, and when one allows words to be written either forward or backward, and when various spellings are allowed, then we no longer have a needle in the haystack problem. Itís more like a railroad tie in a haystack. There are literally billions of possible word combinations.

Another analogy is to shoot a bunch of holes in the side of a barn, draw a bullseye around it and claim to be a sharpshooter.

Thereís another guy out there who wrote the Hebrew text of Daniel backwards and claims to find prophetic meaning. It helps to be able to insert vowels anywhere one wants.

Stick to reading the text forwards, without skipping letters. Youíll get a lot more out of it, as God intended.

Liquid Tension
Jan 12th 2011, 10:25 AM
Stick to reading the text forwards, without skipping letters. Youíll get a lot more out of it, as God intended.

Excellent!!!!!!! :thumbsup: :amen:

TomaxandXamot
Jan 12th 2011, 12:21 PM
Excellent!!!!!!! :thumbsup: :amen:

I knew I was going to get various attitudes on this, and thats perfectly fine. I just wanted everybody to know that theres more to God's wonderful word than what we immediatly know.

tango
Jan 12th 2011, 02:07 PM
I knew I was going to get various attitudes on this, and thats perfectly fine. I just wanted everybody to know that theres more to God's wonderful word than what we immediatly know.

It reminds me of something I read so many years ago I forget the exact context, but the gist of it was something along the lines of shaking the sentences until all the words fell off, and taking what's left behind. The message, regardless of the precise form of words, is what matters. The Holy Spirit isn't constrained by whether we use thees and thous or contemporary language - the Holy Spirit can convict someone even when they aren't reading the Bible at all.

ZDOxcar
Jan 12th 2011, 02:07 PM
The Bible has 3,531,687 letters in it (no spaces). I haven't computed the total number of sequences that can be generated, but it is well into the hundreds of trillions! Literally any name will appear, using ELS!!

May be to say it another way, if you give me any bunch of letters that totals around 3,531,687 letters, say today's newspaper, or the StarWars books, you will find the same names that appear in the Bible as you do in StarWars!!! There's really absolutely nothing special about ELS - whatever you claim about what you've found in the Bible using ELS someone can find the same thing in the StarWars or today's newspaper.

ZD

Fenris
Jan 12th 2011, 03:05 PM
Stick to reading the text forwards, without skipping letters. You’ll get a lot more out of it, as God intended.
This. God's message is much clearer when read as intended.

Slug1
Jan 12th 2011, 03:11 PM
I knew I was going to get various attitudes on this, and thats perfectly fine. I just wanted everybody to know that theres more to God's wonderful word than what we immediatly know.I'll agree with this but this "more" is only by the illumination provided by the Holy Spirit. Not by a formula or code.

The purpose of this formula/code is to take AWAY from God's meaning and His truth and quite frankly, ONLY those who have itching ears are gonna listen to you. We are clearly warned in the Bible what it means to listen to those who tickle ears... So, we are to... RUN AWAY FROM THEM or in this case, you.

Slug1
Jan 12th 2011, 03:13 PM
Stick to reading the text forwards, without skipping letters. You’ll get a lot more out of it, as God intended.One big Hooah!!

PneumaPsucheSoma
Jan 12th 2011, 03:46 PM
The Bible has 3,531,687 letters in it (no spaces). I haven't computed the total number of sequences that can be generated, but it is well into the hundreds of trillions! Literally any name will appear, using ELS!!

May be to say it another way, if you give me any bunch of letters that totals around 3,531,687 letters, say today's newspaper, or the StarWars books, you will find the same names that appear in the Bible as you do in StarWars!!! There's really absolutely nothing special about ELS - whatever you claim about what you've found in the Bible using ELS someone can find the same thing in the StarWars or today's newspaper.

ZD

Comparatively, how much statistical probability difference is there between simple appearance of letters-words versus the equidistance spacing premise the OP is contending? Can you plug in a Hebrew/Greek Scripture text file and duplicate the OP stuff to debunk this?

tango
Jan 12th 2011, 03:57 PM
Comparatively, how much statistical probability difference is there between simple appearance of letters-words versus the equidistance spacing premise the OP is contending? Can you plug in a Hebrew/Greek Scripture text file and duplicate the OP stuff to debunk this?

Already been done, except the script used wasn't Greek. Someone did a similar thing pulling prophecies (retrospective, of course) out of the text of Moby Dick.

David Taylor
Jan 12th 2011, 04:12 PM
I knew I was going to get various attitudes on this, and thats perfectly fine. I just wanted everybody to know that theres more to God's wonderful word than what we immediatly know.

The Holy Spirit doesn't work through codes, secrets, and hiding meanings.

The entire bible-codes platform is based on the notion that God didn't sufficiently reveal His will to mankind in His written text, but that God hide secrets in His written word that only computers and mathematics could unlock and reveal. That type of approach is foolish. It removes the need for simple bible study and relying on the Holy Spirit to show and teach truths; and puts the focus on vain number games. It also implies that God went to the trouble of hiding and imbedding all this supposed hidden and secret truths into His word to begin with.

Sorry, but the bible isn't a seek-a-word game nor a soduko puzzle. Those who advance this only cause the gullible and naive to fall into a ditch and be confused and mislead into deception.

Turn from it folks, and open the bible in the language of your choice, and simply 'read' it....and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you in finding the truth needed for any situation in your life. That is sound and true advice.

ZDOxcar
Jan 12th 2011, 04:48 PM
Comparatively, how much statistical probability difference is there between simple appearance of letters-words versus the equidistance spacing premise the OP is contending? Can you plug in a Hebrew/Greek Scripture text file and duplicate the OP stuff to debunk this?

As the post above mentions, people have already debunk ELS using a sequence of letters like those contained in Moby Dick.

But I'll start on my own computer application so that I can further debunk ELS. But what I'll need is a text file of say today's newspaper or Moby Dick or StarWars (assuming these have somewhere between 3 million to 4 million letters) to show that non-divine text also has unique names and words mentioned by ELS proponents.

ZD

PneumaPsucheSoma
Jan 12th 2011, 05:25 PM
As the post above mentions, people have already debunk ELS using a sequence of letters like those contained in Moby Dick.

But I'll start on my own computer application so that I can further debunk ELS. But what I'll need is a text file of say today's newspaper or Moby Dick or StarWars (assuming these have somewhere between 3 million to 4 million letters) to show that non-divine text also has unique names and words mentioned by ELS proponents.

ZD

I understand the overwhelming statistical probabilities concept within large texts, and I agree that bible codation is a fallacy. I just wondered how the equidistant spacing of characters compared to random spacing/appearance of characters in probability analysis.

I'm wanting to see a 3M-4M character text plugged into a program such as yours and pull out the exact same result. THAT would hammer the nail in the coffin on this stuff.

Regardless, HE is the Word... the written record is simply that.

ZDOxcar
Jan 12th 2011, 05:37 PM
I just wondered how the equidistant spacing of characters compared to random spacing/appearance of characters in probability analysis.


That's an interesting question - I don't know the exact numbers involved but the number of sequences you could generate using random spacing would be "astronomically" greater than those using ELS.

ZD

David Taylor
Jan 12th 2011, 06:09 PM
I understand the overwhelming statistical probabilities concept within large texts, and I agree that bible codation is a fallacy.

I'm wanting to see a 3M-4M character text plugged into a program such as yours and pull out the exact same result. THAT would hammer the nail in the coffin on this stuff.



Hear ya go....run this through your program and see how it spits out bible-codes just like the bible does. (because it's a large work of literature, not because God hid secret codes within it for us to find)

the Complete Works of William Shakespeare
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/100/pg100.txt

It is an online or downloadable version. (Public Domain, and within a few thousand words and characters of being exactly the same size as the Bible; plus it uses many of the same old Elizabethon styled words found in the KJV).

Should be interesting what your program spits out with it.

ZDOxcar
Jan 12th 2011, 06:21 PM
Hear ya go....run this through your program and see how it spits out bible-codes just like the bible does. (because it's a large work of literature, not because God hid secret codes within it for us to find)

the Complete Works of William Shakespeare
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/100/pg100.txt

It is an online or downloadable version. (Public Domain, and within a few thousand words and characters of being exactly the same size as the Bible; plus it uses many of the same old Elizabethon styled words found in the KJV).

Should be interesting what your program spits out with it.

Thanxs!! That's what I was looking for - a large text file.

Oh, BTW, on a preliminary run of my app (it's not complete yet) but I found the name "Reagon" at letter number 27653, spacing every 3039 letter (the input text file is the Bible).

Fenris
Jan 12th 2011, 06:27 PM
The wacky thing is a random string of letters would work just as well.

ZDOxcar
Jan 12th 2011, 06:46 PM
The wacky thing is a random string of letters would work just as well.

That would be another great input file - I'll generate a random sequence of letters and see what "names" it contains.

Fenris
Jan 12th 2011, 06:50 PM
That would be another great input file - I'll generate a random sequence of letters and see what "names" it contains.

Please let us know.

Ooh, so cool to be involved in a project!

Slug1
Jan 12th 2011, 06:57 PM
Please let us know.

Ooh, so cool to be involved in a project!Imagine if it contains YOUR name :o

SCARY!

:P

PneumaPsucheSoma
Jan 12th 2011, 06:57 PM
That would be another great input file - I'll generate a random sequence of letters and see what "names" it contains.

How 'bout puttin' in Supercalifrajilisticexpialidocious to biblically validate Mary Poppins? :-)

Liquid Tension
Jan 12th 2011, 07:02 PM
I knew I was going to get various attitudes on this, and thats perfectly fine. I just wanted everybody to know that theres more to God's wonderful word than what we immediatly know.


I didn't think that I was giving an 'attitude' in my comment. I think that sometimes some of us (myself included) can so get caught up in trying to break down every letter/verse/word/meaning of Scripture that we lose the overall picture. Like in Genesis 1:1,2: Some say 'In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.' <Insert millions/billions of years here> 'The earth was without..............'. Some people can get so caught up in 'there was a period of time between v. 1 & 2' that it almost becomes more important than just realizing that God created all things and did it in a certain order.

And I agree with you that there is more to God's word than we immediatly know, but there are things that we will/may not know completely until He reveals it to us in heaven before His presence.

Fenris
Jan 12th 2011, 07:04 PM
Imagine if it contains YOUR name :o

SCARY!

:PFor your information, I was predicted by Nostardamus.

PneumaPsucheSoma
Jan 12th 2011, 07:09 PM
For your information, I was predicted by Nostardamus.

Is No-star-dam-us any relation to Nostradamus? :-)

Liquid Tension
Jan 12th 2011, 07:10 PM
Is No-star-dam-us any relation to Nostradamus? :-)

:rofl: Post of the day!!

Reynolds357
Jan 12th 2011, 07:11 PM
Already been done, except the script used wasn't Greek. Someone did a similar thing pulling prophecies (retrospective, of course) out of the text of Moby Dick.

In all honesty, they could get almost nothing from Moby Dick. When I was studying the Bible code, that is one thing that did baffle me. Nothing else, not the encyclopedia, war and peace, Moby dick, etc. came anywhere close to giving the amount of skip codes the KJV bible gave.

Reynolds357
Jan 12th 2011, 07:12 PM
As the post above mentions, people have already debunk ELS using a sequence of letters like those contained in Moby Dick.

But I'll start on my own computer application so that I can further debunk ELS. But what I'll need is a text file of say today's newspaper or Moby Dick or StarWars (assuming these have somewhere between 3 million to 4 million letters) to show that non-divine text also has unique names and words mentioned by ELS proponents.

ZD

But they do not occur with nearly the frequency they occur in the KJV Bible.

Fenris
Jan 12th 2011, 07:14 PM
Is No-star-dam-us any relation to Nostradamus? :-)
It's his dsylexic cousin or something.

PneumaPsucheSoma
Jan 12th 2011, 07:17 PM
It's his dsylexic cousin or something.

Just Say "ON" to Drugs.

ZDOxcar
Jan 12th 2011, 08:24 PM
Imagine if it contains YOUR name :o

SCARY!

:P


LOL! Fenris, at offset 202483, spacing=3596 your name appears (input file = Bible)

Fenris
Jan 12th 2011, 08:32 PM
LOL! Fenris, at offset 202483, spacing=3596 your name appears (input file = Bible)
Behold! :pp :lol:

David Taylor
Jan 12th 2011, 08:59 PM
LOL! Fenris, at offset 202483, spacing=3596 your name appears (input file = Bible)

And if you take the first 2 and add the second 2 and add half of the next 4, you get 6.
And if you take the remainder of that halved 4 and subtract it from the next 8, you get 6.
And if you take the next two 3s and add them together you get 6.

Fenris = 666, the Antichrist! The Bible Codes Demand it!!!

Fenris
Jan 12th 2011, 09:05 PM
And if you take the first 2 and add the second 2 and add half of the next 4, you get 6.
And if you take the remainder of that halved 4 and subtract it from the next 8, you get 6.
And if you take the next two 3s and add them together you get 6.

Fenris = 666, the Antichrist! The Bible Codes Demand it!!!

Oh oh. The mods are onto me...:giveup:

tango
Jan 12th 2011, 09:08 PM
Oh oh. The mods are onto me...:giveup:

I always thought something wasn't quite right about you, Fenris :P

Fenris
Jan 12th 2011, 09:10 PM
I always thought something wasn't quite right about you, Fenris :P

Heck, even my wife says I'm eccentric. But I'm apparently diabolical as well. The bible codes can not be denied.

ZDOxcar
Jan 12th 2011, 09:24 PM
Heck, even my wife says I'm eccentric. But I'm apparently diabolical as well. The bible codes can not be denied.

And you know what's really weird - in that sequence I mentioned the exact sequence generated was Fenris (some other possibilities could be fENriS, or FEnRis, ...), but the sequence was exactly, precisely "Fenris". The codes were very precise in they wanted it to be Fenris, and no other way LOL

Fenris
Jan 12th 2011, 09:30 PM
And you know what's really weird - in that sequence I mentioned the exact sequence generated was Fenris (some other possibilities could be fENriS, or FEnRis, ...), but the sequence was exactly, precisely "Fenris". The codes were very precise in they wanted it to be Fenris, and no other way LOL

A hard-coded Sign from Above, planted in the bible thousands of years ago..

markedward
Jan 12th 2011, 11:36 PM
A) Depending on your approach, this is Gnosticism, or it's Elitism.

B) Which version of the Bible do we need to use? KJV NIV NLT ESV YLT WEB ECV TM RSV ASV KJ2K Darby Tyndale Wyclif Message What? Septuagint? Original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek? Which manuscript tradition?

RevLogos
Jan 13th 2011, 12:32 AM
Or let's suppose hypothetically, that God did indeed plant a code in the Hebrew text to be found by Man in the 20th century when we had the computing power to dabble in such things.

What message do you suppose God would give us? Something about the Messiah perhaps?

No.

According to the analysis, God gave us the names of 32 Rabbis.

If I really believed this was the great message God was sending us, I'd dump the New Testament immediately and go read whatever it was these guys wrote.

ZDOxcar
Jan 13th 2011, 02:06 AM
Would anyone have the "names" that they claim to have found? I think to "debunk" ELS first one would have to find the names they claim to have found, and then to take say the Shakespeare texts and show that you can also find those words in there????? (not so sure this is correct)

Fenris, I had my application search for "Fenris" in the Shakespeare textfile (which is larger than the Bible) and your name appears at offset 16, spacing 98288.

zdoxcar does not appear in the Bible nor the Shakespeare texts (probably because the letter "z" and "x" are not so common?????).

Reynolds357
Jan 13th 2011, 04:14 AM
Would anyone have the "names" that they claim to have found? I think to "debunk" ELS first one would have to find the names they claim to have found, and then to take say the Shakespeare texts and show that you can also find those words in there????? (not so sure this is correct)

Fenris, I had my application search for "Fenris" in the Shakespeare textfile (which is larger than the Bible) and your name appears at offset 16, spacing 98288.

zdoxcar does not appear in the Bible nor the Shakespeare texts (probably because the letter "z" and "x" are not so common?????).

They have found all kind of stuff. They have found the JFK assassination. Hitler linked to the holocaust. All kinds of interesting stuff has been found.
I do not give it much weight, but it is interesting anyway.

ZDOxcar
Jan 13th 2011, 01:58 PM
They have found all kind of stuff. They have found the JFK assassination. Hitler linked to the holocaust. All kinds of interesting stuff has been found.
I do not give it much weight, but it is interesting anyway.

Thanxs for the info - I was looking for specific names they have claimed to have found. For example, I just found "Clinton" at offset 593 spacing 72096 (input file = Bible). I've also found "Reagon" in the Bible (offset 73 spacing 80077). But I don't know what names they've claimed to find. What would be great would be to show one can pick any bunch of letters and come up with the same results as ELS proponents.

Here's my results so far:

"Clinton" is in the Bible at offset 593 spacing 72096
"Clinton" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 2578 spacing 86662

"Reagon" is in the Bible at offset 73 spacing 80077
"Reagon" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 94 spacing 111882

As one can see, one can NOT claim anything special about President Clinton and President Reagon "appearing" in the Bible since the Shakespeare text also has these 2 presidents.

Fenris
Jan 13th 2011, 02:00 PM
A) Depending on your approach, this is Gnosticism, or it's Elitism.

B) Which version of the Bible do we need to use? KJV NIV NLT ESV YLT WEB ECV TM RSV ASV KJ2K Darby Tyndale Wyclif Message What? Septuagint? Original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek? Which manuscript tradition?

I'll not have you rain on my parade. My name was found and I am now a strong proponent of bible codes!

ZDOxcar
Jan 13th 2011, 02:16 PM
Oh wait, oops, I forgot some critical results:

"Clinton" is in the Bible at offset 593 spacing 72096
"Clinton" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 2578 spacing 86662

"Reagon" is in the Bible at offset 73 spacing 80077
"Reagon" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 94 spacing 111882

"Fenris" is in the Bible at offset 176 spacing 212794"
"Fenris" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 16 spacing 98288

Fenris
Jan 13th 2011, 02:45 PM
Oh wait, oops, I forgot some critical results:


"Fenris" is in the Bible at offset 176 spacing 212794"
"Fenris" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 16 spacing 98288
This can only mean one thing: Shakespeare text too is holy writ and must be added to the biblical canon immediately, if not sooner.

ZDOxcar
Jan 13th 2011, 03:48 PM
This can only mean one thing: Shakespeare text too is holy writ and must be added to the biblical canon immediately, if not sooner.

I agree whole heartedly. But possibly you did not see the incredible pattern in the results listed? Or possibly you were being modest? But the 1st result was for President Clinton, and the second was for President Reagon, and so it follows a natural pattern that the next one listed would be President?

Fenris
Jan 13th 2011, 03:58 PM
I agree whole heartedly. But possibly you did not see the incredible pattern in the results listed? Or possibly you were being modest? But the 1st result was for President Clinton, and the second was for President Reagon, and so it follows a natural pattern that the next one listed would be President?

:hmm: I must ponder this development and chart my future course of action.

If elected, I will of course give you a cabinet position. You will scour the bible for more codes. About me of course. You will also look for me in other texts that will henceforth become holy writ.

ZDOxcar
Jan 13th 2011, 04:06 PM
:hmm: I must ponder this development and chart my future course of action.

If elected, I will of course give you a cabinet position. You will scour the bible for more codes. About me of course. You will also look for me in other texts that will henceforth become holy writ.

LOL! Of course, sire, if I took such an honorable position I would dedicate, with fierce passion, the search for anything related to f-e-n-r-i-s and s-i-r-n-e-f. No other words or names shall occupy a single thought.

Wouldn't it be "funny" if near-by the appearance of your name were the numbers 2 0 1 2 !!!!?????!!!!!

Ah, I just realized I am not implementing ELS quite correctly - I am always searching forwards! I need to search backwards too.

Fenris
Jan 13th 2011, 04:25 PM
Ah, I just realized I am not implementing ELS quite correctly - I am always searching forwards! I need to search backwards too.
That's a good lad. Get back to work.

tango
Jan 13th 2011, 04:46 PM
A) Depending on your approach, this is Gnosticism, or it's Elitism.

B) Which version of the Bible do we need to use? KJV NIV NLT ESV YLT WEB ECV TM RSV ASV KJ2K Darby Tyndale Wyclif Message What? Septuagint? Original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek? Which manuscript tradition?

Whichever one gives us what we want to find, I guess.

ZDOxcar
Jan 13th 2011, 04:53 PM
Here's some more results: I'm adding "Obama" to the results:

"Clinton" is in the Bible at offset 593 spacing 72096
"Clinton" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 2578 spacing 86662

"Reagon" is in the Bible at offset 73 spacing 80077
"Reagon" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 94 spacing 111882

"Fenris" is in the Bible at offset 176 spacing 212794"
"Fenris" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 16 spacing 98288

"Obama" is in the Bible at offset 1007 spacing 235436
"Obama" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 95 spacing 190768

Reynolds357
Jan 13th 2011, 04:54 PM
Thanxs for the info - I was looking for specific names they have claimed to have found. For example, I just found "Clinton" at offset 593 spacing 72096 (input file = Bible). I've also found "Reagon" in the Bible (offset 73 spacing 80077). But I don't know what names they've claimed to find. What would be great would be to show one can pick any bunch of letters and come up with the same results as ELS proponents.

Here's my results so far:

"Clinton" is in the Bible at offset 593 spacing 72096
"Clinton" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 2578 spacing 86662

"Reagon" is in the Bible at offset 73 spacing 80077
"Reagon" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 94 spacing 111882

As one can see, one can NOT claim anything special about President Clinton and President Reagon "appearing" in the Bible since the Shakespeare text also has these 2 presidents.

I gave away all my stuff on Bible code because I simply grew tired of it. What is interesting is finding stuff like Hitler and Holocaust at the same sequence. Finding things like Kennedy and assasinate (forget what word it actually was) in the same sequence. You can do much more than a word. You can actually build coherent messages in the same sequence that are historically accurate. The problem lies in the fac that you have to already know facts of the event to know what to look for in the code.

tango
Jan 13th 2011, 04:56 PM
Here's some more results: I'm adding "Obama" to the results:

"Clinton" is in the Bible at offset 593 spacing 72096
"Clinton" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 2578 spacing 86662

"Reagon" is in the Bible at offset 73 spacing 80077
"Reagon" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 94 spacing 111882

"Fenris" is in the Bible at offset 176 spacing 212794"
"Fenris" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 16 spacing 98288

"Obama" is in the Bible at offset 1007 spacing 235436
"Obama" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 95 spacing 190768


Interesting you should find "Reagon". I thought it was spelled "Reagan". Perhaps God can't spell...

ZDOxcar
Jan 13th 2011, 04:57 PM
I gave away all my stuff on Bible code because I simply grew tired of it. What is interesting is finding stuff like Hitler and Holocaust at the same sequence. Finding things like Kennedy and assasinate (forget what word it actually was) in the same sequence. You can do much more than a word. You can actually build coherent messages in the same sequence that are historically accurate. The problem lies in the fac that you have to already know facts of the event to know what to look for in the code.

Here's more results:

"Kennedy" is in the Bible at offset 102135 spacing 119226
"Kennedy" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 1310 spacing 260993

I'll look up assasinate too

"assasinate" appears in the Bible at offset 1758190 spacing 123072
"assasinate" appears in the Shakespeare text at offset 645549 spacing 182917

Many of the appearances of these words I'm listing appears many-many times - I'm just picking one to list.

I'll look up "Hitler" and "Holocaust".

If anyone knows of other specific words the ELS proponents claim is unique to the Bible, let us know and we can search both the Bible and the Shakespeare text - thank-you.

ZDOxcar
Jan 13th 2011, 05:36 PM
Interesting you should find "Reagon". I thought it was spelled "Reagan". Perhaps God can't spell...

LOL! Oops.

Let me update the results:

"Reagan" appears in the Bible at offset 806 spacing 255646
"Reagan" appears in the Shakespeare text at offset 838 spacing 265912

Thanxs for catching that!

Slug1
Jan 13th 2011, 05:48 PM
Thanxs for the info - I was looking for specific names they have claimed to have found. For example, I just found "Clinton" at offset 593 spacing 72096 (input file = Bible). I've also found "Reagon" in the Bible (offset 73 spacing 80077). But I don't know what names they've claimed to find. What would be great would be to show one can pick any bunch of letters and come up with the same results as ELS proponents.

Here's my results so far:

"Reagon" is in the Bible at offset 73 spacing 80077
"Reagon" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 94 spacing 111882




"Reagon" is in the Bible at offset 73 spacing 80077
"Reagon" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 94 spacing 111882



Here's some more results: I'm adding "Obama" to the results:

"Clinton" is in the Bible at offset 593 spacing 72096
"Clinton" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 2578 spacing 86662

"Reagon" is in the Bible at offset 73 spacing 80077
"Reagon" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 94 spacing 111882

"Fenris" is in the Bible at offset 176 spacing 212794"
"Fenris" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 16 spacing 98288

"Obama" is in the Bible at offset 1007 spacing 235436
"Obama" is in the Shakespeare text at offset 95 spacing 190768


LOL! Oops.

Let me update the results:

"Reagan" appears in the Bible at offset 806 spacing 255646
"Reagan" appears in the Shakespeare text at offset 838 spacing 265912

Thanxs for catching that!

Yeah, HAHA! This "result" shows that it's a CROCK and you can find ANYTHING you want through this code.

Find me a pizza with pepporoni :lol:

Then it might really be meaningful.

ZDOxcar
Jan 13th 2011, 06:08 PM
Yeah, HAHA! This "result" shows that it's a CROCK and you can find ANYTHING you want through this code.

Find me a pizza with pepporoni :lol:

Then it might really be meaningful.

This is funny - you STUMPed the ELS!! pizza appears at offset 9633 spacing 7244 BUT there is no pepperoni!!!!

More results:

"hitler" appears in the Bible at offset 209 spacing 114184
"hitler" appears in the Shakespeare text at offset 220201 spacing 33818

"holocaust" appears in the Bible at offset 194 spacing 150959
"holocaust" appears in the Shakespeare text at offset 286098 spacing 232980

Diggindeeper
Jan 13th 2011, 06:17 PM
Glad to see you finally spelled Reagan right. But I betcha would find 'Bush' in there plenty of time. Including the burning one that Moses saw! LOL

Slug1
Jan 13th 2011, 06:19 PM
This is funny - you STUMPed the ELS!! pizza appears at offset 9633 spacing 7244 BUT there is no pepperoni!!!!

OMG.... that MEAN'S GOD DOESN'T WANT ME TO PUT PEPPERONI ON MY PIZZA ANYMORE :o :o :o


:( :cry: :cry:

Liquid Tension
Jan 13th 2011, 06:37 PM
OMG.... that MEAN'S GOD DOESN'T WANT ME TO PUT PEPPERONI ON MY PIZZA ANYMORE :o :o :o


:( :cry: :cry:


We need to start a revolt over this!!! :hmm:

ZDOxcar
Jan 13th 2011, 06:43 PM
OMG.... that MEAN'S GOD DOESN'T WANT ME TO PUT PEPPERONI ON MY PIZZA ANYMORE :o :o :o


:( :cry: :cry:

Not to worry, although the pizza will have no pepperoni, but hey, look at this, cheese appears at offset 332 spacing 216277 !!!!

DigginDeeper, yes "bush" appears thousands of times!!

After I get the application to reverse read the input file (Bible, Shakespeare) I'll input the 44 Presidents to see how many appear in both input files. We already have Kennedy, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Obama appearing in both. And, of course, we must search for tomato, mushroom, olives, ..... LOL

Diggindeeper
Jan 13th 2011, 06:45 PM
BLACK OLIVES. No onion, please.

ZDOxcar
Jan 13th 2011, 06:56 PM
BLACK OLIVES. No onion, please.

Darn, we "ran out" of black olives, but we do find the normal "olive" (offset 1499 spacing 167049), "tomato" (offset 1394 sp 277676), "onion" (off 133 sp 147596), and "cheese" (off 332 sp 216277) in there

ZDOxcar
Jan 16th 2011, 02:20 AM
I think the following results shows that there's nothing to ELS - you can pick any textfile and get the same results as ELS.

I searched the Bible for the names of the 44 Presidents of the USA and found 42 of them (the only ones that I did not find was "Washington" and "Jefferson". "Eisenhower" was not found using forward searches, but was using backward searches.

I then searched the textfile containing Shakespeare, and in it I found 43 of the 44 Presidents - the only one that was not contained in it was "Jefferson".

Here is a list, from hardest-to-find to easiest-to-find President names:

Washington, Jefferson - could not find
Eisenhower - required reverse search
Cleveland - offset = 1516319 spacing 137629
McKinley - offset 797882 spacing 242239
Roosevelt - offset 306322 spacing 258077
Garfield - offset 128255 spacing 293809

All the other President's names were found at offset less than 100000

ZD

tango
Jan 16th 2011, 10:03 AM
So maybe Jefferson wasn't really the President and the history books are some kind of conspiracy?

ZDOxcar
Jan 16th 2011, 01:10 PM
So maybe Jefferson wasn't really the President and the history books are some kind of conspiracy?

Funny, last night I mentioned to a friend that out of the 44 Presidents both Washington & Jefferson wasn't found using ELS and he said to me "you'd be shocked at what ELS proponents will make of those 2 Presidents not being found. They do crap like 'oh look, I found obama at letter number 238574 andObama's the 44 President so you see the Bible predicted it'". I told him "BUT the Shakespeare text has 43 Presidents in it, including 'obama'".

My guess is ELS folks won't care one bit what Shakespeare has in it, they'll only focus on what they "find" in the Bible.

ZDOxcar
Jan 16th 2011, 01:43 PM
Just thought I'd throw this out, but can anyone think of anything else I might do to "build" a stronger case against ELS? I still have on my plate generating a random sequence of letters the size of the Bible, and then seeing how many Presidents are in it. I think when I generate the random letters, I must ensure that the distribution of the letters is identical to that of the Bible (that is for each letter 'a' thru 'z' that each letter appears in the same proportion to that contained in the Bible.

Anything else?????

PneumaPsucheSoma
Jan 16th 2011, 01:47 PM
Funny, last night I mentioned to a friend that out of the 44 Presidents both Washington & Jefferson wasn't found using ELS and he said to me "you'd be shocked at what ELS proponents will make of those 2 Presidents not being found. They do crap like 'oh look, I found obama at letter number 238574 andObama's the 44 President so you see the Bible predicted it'". I told him "BUT the Shakespeare text has 43 Presidents in it, including 'obama'".

You need to combine ELS with that recently posted numerical-letter-value code. Then we'll have the REAL truth of God. Unless........ Washington and Jefferson being missing means canon is incomplete; in which case all the Gnostic Gospels should be canonized... or Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series.

PneumaPsucheSoma
Jan 16th 2011, 01:55 PM
Just thought I'd throw this out, but can anyone think of anything else I might do to "build" a stronger case against ELS? I still have on my plate generating a random sequence of letters the size of the Bible, and then seeing how many Presidents are in it. I think when I generate the random letters, I must ensure that the distribution of the letters is identical to that of the Bible (that is for each letter 'a' thru 'z' that each letter appears in the same proportion to that contained in the Bible.

Anything else?????

For all those who think Scripture is a giant Sudoku, I don't think you will disuade them regardless.

Firefighter
Jan 17th 2011, 10:03 PM
You need to combine ELS with that recently posted numerical-letter-value code. Then we'll have the REAL truth of God. Unless........ Washington and Jefferson being missing means canon is incomplete; in which case all the Gnostic Gospels should be canonized... or Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series.

You mean Left Behind is not canon!?!?!:o



:lol:

Fenris
Jan 17th 2011, 10:11 PM
You mean Left Behind is not canon!?!?!:o

I bet there's codes in it...

PneumaPsucheSoma
Jan 18th 2011, 01:21 AM
You mean Left Behind is not canon!?!?!:o



:lol:

Well... it's possible the SBC may have added it. I'm outta that loop. ;-)