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AngelAuthor
Jan 14th 2011, 07:33 PM
Do nothing, of course.

Napolitano Cancels Virtual Border Fence Project, Proposes Alternative
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/14/napolitano-cancels-virtual-border-fence-project-proposes-alternative/


Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announced Friday that she has canceled the troubled virtual fence project along the southwest border, proposing a new plan which she claims will better address each region's border security needs.
The decision comes a year after the secretary ordered a review of the project, which was hampered by delays and technological glitches, and froze its funding. The original plan, known as SBInet, envisioned a system of cameras and sensors which would allow officers to monitor crossings and dispatch Border Patrol agents to catch anyone entering the United States illegally.
Napolitano said her department briefed members of Congress on Friday about the final decision to nix the program "as originally conceived." But she said DHS will pursue a "new path forward" for border security along the 2,000-mile southern U.S. border.

So those who care about the security of this country griped and complained to Bush and the Congress and Clinton and the Congress and Bush and the Congress and Reagan and the Congress for something to be done. We got amnesty, and decades later, a promise to build a real fence.

Then the dems defunded it...said they had a better idea, a virtual fence.

That was then defunded by the dems... said it won't work...instead we will...

:B <--this would be me beating my head against a virtual wall...

Studyin'2Show
Jan 14th 2011, 07:47 PM
Isn't that ironic that the previous amnesty deal came with the promise of a wall which, uhh, we never got. What will we be promised for the next amnesty, and how much will that promise be worth?

Liquid Tension
Jan 15th 2011, 06:44 PM
Back when Reagan granted amnesty, he admitted after that it was the wrong thing to do. Sooooooo, why is it right now?

The question I have is, how hard is it to build a wall on the border??? Place armed guards on top of the wall. It really isn't difficult. It dosen't have to be the Great Wall of China. Again, seems like a 'common sense' thing to do, but then using common sense in politics rarely if ever happens.

teddyv
Jan 15th 2011, 09:37 PM
Back when Reagan granted amnesty, he admitted after that it was the wrong thing to do. Sooooooo, why is it right now?

The question I have is, how hard is it to build a wall on the border??? Place armed guards on top of the wall. It really isn't difficult. It dosen't have to be the Great Wall of China. Again, seems like a 'common sense' thing to do, but then using common sense in politics rarely if ever happens.

It's not hard to build a wall. Cost might be a issue with the big cost coming from manning how many miles of wall? How many people would that effectively require? And 3, 8-hour shifts? How long before the bribery starts (probably even before it would be complete)? I suspect someone has attempted to cost such a thing and compare it to the status quo.

TrustingFollower
Jan 15th 2011, 11:11 PM
Back when Reagan granted amnesty, he admitted after that it was the wrong thing to do. Sooooooo, why is it right now?

The question I have is, how hard is it to build a wall on the border??? Place armed guards on top of the wall. It really isn't difficult. It dosen't have to be the Great Wall of China. Again, seems like a 'common sense' thing to do, but then using common sense in politics rarely if ever happens.

You bring up the great wall of China, why was the wall built? It was built to keep the Mongolians out and worked. In my mind this is the only way the USA will ever be able to secure the boarder in the long haul. Take the unspent stimulus money that we are still on the hook for and put it to a productive use building a wall. This will secure our country as well as create many much needed jobs in the construction sector.

AngelAuthor
Jan 16th 2011, 12:24 AM
You bring up the great wall of China, why was the wall built? It was built to keep the Mongolians out and worked.
And that's not the only example. The Israelis built a wall to keep out murdering Palestinians, and that has worked as well. Cost is a primary reason given for why not to do this, but the cost of NOT doing it has been significantly higher over the last 20 years. Another (bogus) reason by the opposition is that it won't *STOP* illegal immigration. That's an absurd argument, like saying passing laws against murder is a waste since it doesn't *STOP* murder. That's not the point. The point is to curb or reduce illegal immigration, which a good wall will do. A deadly wall would do the job even better, but let's take this one step at a time.

Reynolds357
Jan 16th 2011, 02:29 AM
Do nothing, of course.

Napolitano Cancels Virtual Border Fence Project, Proposes Alternative
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/14/napolitano-cancels-virtual-border-fence-project-proposes-alternative/



So those who care about the security of this country griped and complained to Bush and the Congress and Clinton and the Congress and Bush and the Congress and Reagan and the Congress for something to be done. We got amnesty, and decades later, a promise to build a real fence.

Then the dems defunded it...said they had a better idea, a virtual fence.

That was then defunded by the dems... said it won't work...instead we will...

:B <--this would be me beating my head against a virtual wall...

To be honest, neither the Dems or Republicans really want to seal the border. They just want to act like they do. I have no idea why they do not want it sealed.

Reynolds357
Jan 16th 2011, 02:31 AM
And that's not the only example. The Israelis built a wall to keep out murdering Palestinians, and that has worked as well. Cost is a primary reason given for why not to do this, but the cost of NOT doing it has been significantly higher over the last 20 years. Another (bogus) reason by the opposition is that it won't *STOP* illegal immigration. That's an absurd argument, like saying passing laws against murder is a waste since it doesn't *STOP* murder. That's not the point. The point is to curb or reduce illegal immigration, which a good wall will do. A deadly wall would do the job even better, but let's take this one step at a time.

I agree on the deadly wall. We should put up 2 fences. The area in between them should be a dead zone. We should mine the heck out of the area, guard it with snipers, use smart booby traps, etc. etc.

Liquid Tension
Jan 16th 2011, 03:16 AM
I agree on the deadly wall. We should put up 2 fences. The area in between them should be a dead zone. We should mine the heck out of the area, guard it with snipers, use smart booby traps, etc. etc.

I like your thinking.

RevLogos
Jan 17th 2011, 12:17 AM
I can think of three reasons why politicians on both sides would like to see the floodgates opened and general amnesty given.

1) The social security system is a giant Ponzi scheme. It needs millions of young people entering the tax roles to pay for the increasing people from the Boomer generation entering retirement age. The birth rates in the US in most areas are below the necessary level to sustain a population. Immigration by the truck full is the only way to prop up the failing system.

2) Mexico is a backwards corrupt country. People come to the US because it offers hope for jobs, freedom, safety and security that Mexico cannot give. If we sealed up the border, those Mexicans might just decide instead to actually fix their own problems. That means revolution, instability and violence, and the possible risk that what ever comes out of the revolution is another Venezuela. This is why the Mexican government encourages illegal immigration.

3) The US imports much of it's oil from Mexico, second largest importer behind Canada. If we try to seal off the border, Mexico might just decide to cut back on exports in retaliation (because of #2).

Liquid Tension
Jan 17th 2011, 03:35 AM
I can think of three reasons why politicians on both sides would like to see the floodgates opened and general amnesty given.

1) The social security system is a giant Ponzi scheme. It needs millions of young people entering the tax roles to pay for the increasing people from the Boomer generation entering retirement age. The birth rates in the US in most areas are below the necessary level to sustain a population. Immigration by the truck full is the only way to prop up the failing system.

Something definatly needs to be done about SS and some unpopular and difficult decisions need to be made (raising the retirement age for example). But we all know that Government will never do anything about this.........except raise taxes.


2) Mexico is a backwards corrupt country. People come to the US because it offers hope for jobs, freedom, safety and security that Mexico cannot give. If we sealed up the border, those Mexicans might just decide instead to actually fix their own problems. That means revolution, instability and violence, and the possible risk that what ever comes out of the revolution is another Venezuela. This is why the Mexican government encourages illegal immigration.

This is a 'they' problem, not a 'we' problem.


3) The US imports much of it's oil from Mexico, second largest importer behind Canada. If we try to seal off the border, Mexico might just decide to cut back on exports in retaliation (because of #2).

Anwar.....drilling closer to shore......there are other options available.

But then again, we know Government will never address these issues with any sort of common sense. Oh well, carry on.

TomH
Jan 17th 2011, 03:56 AM
Allow the border states National Guard units drones for surveillance, and UH-60 Black Hawks for rapid troop deployment.

We have the capability of using satellite surveillance with chopper deployment.

Want to give our troops training in drone operations and rapid deployment? Use the borders for training.

AngelAuthor
Jan 17th 2011, 04:35 AM
Allow the border states National Guard units drones for surveillance, and UH-60 Black Hawks for rapid troop deployment.

We have the capability of using satellite surveillance with chopper deployment.

Want to give our troops training in drone operations and rapid deployment? Use the borders for training.
Simple, productive and non-violent. Excellent, Tom.

Never going to happen, though, unfortunately.

^^ On reflection it makes me very angry to be so positively (as in I KNOW I'm right), cynical about our government.

TomH
Jan 17th 2011, 04:58 AM
Here's an enterprising idea for a good program developer.

A new interactive video game called "Catch the illegals. Plug the game into Google satellite, hook up with the military. For every illegal reported that is intercepted, you get points. Each game lasts for a week. High score wins and gets a free ride on a Blackhawk. (Bonus points for reporting drug runs).

The military only needs to plug in the coordinates from a report, verify, and deploy. False reports eliminates the reporter from competition.

But yeah, too simple, wouldn't cost enough, and might shame the government.

Liquid Tension
Jan 17th 2011, 05:10 AM
But yeah, too simple, wouldn't cost enough, and might shame the government.

Quote of the day. :D

Dravenhawk
Jan 20th 2011, 04:12 AM
A suitable concrete wall of approximatly 12 feet high could be easily built in less than a year using the 30+ million unemployed who are sitting on thier tuffets watching Opra collecting unemployment checks -- Seriously we should actually get something of value from the hundreds of billions the taxpayer is shelling out. Paying people to do nothing for 99+ weeks is just wrong.

Dravenhawk