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Firstfruits
Jan 27th 2011, 08:44 AM
My understanding of the following scripture is that a believer that no longer works is good for nothing. The believer no longer does as he/she should.

Mt 5:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Believers can be cast out.

Firstfruits

nzyr
Jan 27th 2011, 09:48 AM
Salt is a preservative. It also makes food taste better. So Christians are to help people. And in so doing they make the world a better place.

Firstfruits
Jan 27th 2011, 10:40 AM
Salt is a preservative. It also makes food taste better. So Christians are to help people. And in so doing they make the world a better place.

Thank you Nzyr,

Agreed. Do you agree that if christians no longer work, as Jesus said, they are good for nothing?

Mt 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Jan 27th 2011, 01:53 PM
Mk 9:50 Salt is good: but if the Salt have lost his Saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have Salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

Lk 14:34 Salt is good: but if the Salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Lk 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Firstfruits

Diggindeeper
Jan 27th 2011, 02:32 PM
You know, salt works!
It works to preserve things like meat.

It also seasons. It works to flavor whatever it touches.

Salt is healing! It works to heal a wound.

Salt kills out germs! After oral surgery once, my doctor told me to rinse my mouth each morning with warm salt water...to kill germs. So salt works to kill out dangerous stuff!

On the other hand, salt sometimes hurts! Pour it in an open cut, and you'll want it flushed away with water. FAST!

So, if we are to be salt of the earth, and we don't WORK, then we are good for nothing.

Firstfruits
Jan 27th 2011, 03:57 PM
You know, salt works!
It works to preserve things like meat.

It also seasons. It works to flavor whatever it touches.

Salt is healing! It works to heal a wound.

Salt kills out germs! After oral surgery once, my doctor told me to rinse my mouth each morning with warm salt water...to kill germs. So salt works to kill out dangerous stuff!

On the other hand, salt sometimes hurts! Pour it in an open cut, and you'll want it flushed away with water. FAST!

So, if we are to be salt of the earth, and we don't WORK, then we are good for nothing.

Thank you Diggindeeper,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

nzyr
Jan 28th 2011, 11:08 AM
Do you agree that if christians no longer work, as Jesus said, they are good for nothing?



Where did Jesus say that? Are you saying that disabled or retired people are good for nothing?

Jesus is describing what Christians are to this earth. Like salt they help to preserve it. Also like salt on food they make it a more pleasant and tasteful place to live.

Firstfruits
Jan 28th 2011, 12:07 PM
Where did Jesus say that? Are you saying that disabled or retired people are good for nothing?

Jesus is describing what Christians are to this earth. Like salt they help to preserve it. Also like salt on food they make it a more pleasant and tasteful place to live.

"Ye are the salt of the earth", I believe refers to believers/christians.

Mt 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

It has to do with what identifies us as being "salt". you could say, our life style.

Firstfruits

Moses65
Jan 28th 2011, 04:11 PM
"Ye are the salt of the earth", I believe refers to believers/christians.

Mt 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

It has to do with what identifies us as being "salt". you could say, our life style.

Firstfruits


Paul wrote
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9

Unforunately most Christians end there and never read the next verse:
10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10

But if a believer does cease from the works he/she should do, I don't think they are cast out, but rather they are saved by fire (I Corinthians 3:11-15). But John the Apostle askes "...how dwelleth the love of God in him? (I John 3:17). For isn't the true work of faith, love: "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision but faith which worketh by love. Galatians 5:6 The only way a believer can receive this love is thru the Holy Ghost (Roman 5:5).

episkopos
Jan 28th 2011, 06:22 PM
My understanding of the following scripture is that a believer that no longer works is good for nothing. The believer no longer does as he/she should.

Mt 5:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus%20king%20lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Believers can be cast out.

Firstfruits

That's correct!

Jesus Christ preserves the world. And unless our own Christian growth exceeds our carnal development, we give off the scent of the world and we cannot even preserve our own lives let alone the world around us.

We are to not dilute the effective life in us which happens through worldly pursuits. Love not the things of the world.

Firstfruits
Jan 29th 2011, 01:31 PM
Paul wrote
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9

Unforunately most Christians end there and never read the next verse:
10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10

But if a believer does cease from the works he/she should do, I don't think they are cast out, but rather they are saved by fire (I Corinthians 3:11-15). But John the Apostle askes "...how dwelleth the love of God in him? (I John 3:17). For isn't the true work of faith, love: "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision but faith which worketh by love. Galatians 5:6 The only way a believer can receive this love is thru the Holy Ghost (Roman 5:5).

Jesus said that which is good for nothing is cast out.

Mt 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

What does it mean for the children of the kingdom to be cast out?

Mt 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Jan 29th 2011, 01:36 PM
That's correct!

Jesus Christ preserves the world. And unless our own Christian growth exceeds our carnal development, we give off the scent of the world and we cannot even preserve our own lives let alone the world around us.

We are to not dilute the effective life in us which happens through worldly pursuits. Love not the things of the world.

The world knew who Jesus was by his works, are we also to be known by our works?


Jn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Firstfruits

notuptome
Jan 29th 2011, 02:21 PM
Jesus said that which is good for nothing is cast out.

Mt 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

What does it mean for the children of the kingdom to be cast out?

Mt 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Firstfruits
Why do you constantly seek to create doubt? Does doubt edify the body?

Mat 8:12 in context is not about believers but the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Why will the children not be in the kingdom because they will not believe in Christ. vs 10

Salt cast into the street is still salt. The man in 1 Cor 5:1-5 was not lost but his flesh was to be destroyed. He likely entered into heaven with no works that surrived the fire of Christs judgment. 1 Cor 3:15 Paul speaking to believers in 2 Cor 5:10 says that we appear before Christ not the GWT judgment. Only those who are judged at the GWT are cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:12-15

Heb 12:12-15 Bitterness is trouble and defiles many.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Firstfruits
Jan 29th 2011, 02:51 PM
Why do you constantly seek to create doubt? Does doubt edify the body?

Mat 8:12 in context is not about believers but the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Why will the children not be in the kingdom because they will not believe in Christ. vs 10

Salt cast into the street is still salt. The man in 1 Cor 5:1-5 was not lost but his flesh was to be destroyed. He likely entered into heaven with no works that surrived the fire of Christs judgment. 1 Cor 3:15 Paul speaking to believers in 2 Cor 5:10 says that we appear before Christ not the GWT judgment. Only those who are judged at the GWT are cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:12-15

Heb 12:12-15 Bitterness is trouble and defiles many.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What does it mean when a believer falls away?

Lk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Mt 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Why the warning?

Lk 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Firstfruits

Slug1
Jan 29th 2011, 03:11 PM
Why do you constantly seek to create doubt? Does doubt edify the body? The doubt is actually generated by doctrine that says a Christian CAN'T fall away when scripture CLEARLY warns us that a Christian CAN.

That is where the doubt comes from Roger. When a person puts their doctrine forth as the truth instead of the Word of God as the Truth. God warns us so very clearly that we can fall away and that we need to endure while we run the race. Then others come along and push their doctrine on top of God's Truth and they try to drown God's Truth under the doctrine.

That is waht is creating doubt and that is why threads like this are needed for the Body of Christ to be edified. The Body of Christ needs SOME to always bring forth God's Truth so doctrine can be put aside and those who seek God's Truth will be FREED of the bondage, such doctrine has over them.

Firstfruits
Jan 29th 2011, 03:18 PM
The doubt is actually generated by doctrine that says a Christian CAN'T fall away when scripture CLEARLY warns us that a Christian CAN.

That is where the doubt comes from Roger. When a person puts their doctrine forth as the truth instead of the Word of God as the Truth. God warns us so very clearly that we can fall away and that we need to endure while we run the race. Then others come along and push their doctrine on top of God's Truth and they try to drown God's Truth under the doctrine.

That is waht is creating doubt and that is why threads like this are needed for the Body of Christ to be edified. The Body of Christ needs SOME to always bring forth God's Truth so doctrine can be put aside and those who seek God's Truth will be FREED of the bondage, such doctrine has over them.

Amen! Slug1,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Diggindeeper
Jan 29th 2011, 09:27 PM
You know, it always struck me as strange concerning this 'salt' teaching straight from the mouth of Christ Jesus. You see, the story of him teaching the people this begins in Matthew chapter 5 and continues through chapter 7. All that time, it is the same time. Jesus was just simply teaching the people such SIMPLE truths. Thing like this:

Matthew 5:13-16
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Simple! Simple. And yet, read to the end of chapter 7 and the Bible records the fact that the people were "ASTONISHED AT HIS DOCTRINE." To me, he was teaching simple, basic truths. Very basic.

But apparently, that astonished many. I wonder why...
Did it clash with their understanding? Was it too deep for them to understand? Did it go contrary to their beliefs?

I just find it strange that the people were 'astonished' at such doctrine. And sometimes, they still are.

notuptome
Jan 29th 2011, 09:36 PM
What does it mean when a believer falls away?
What does it mean? Does it mean to lose eternal life? God forbid! Does it mean to impair fellowship with the Lord? Does it mean to invite chastisement? What of the man in 1 Cor 5:1-5?

Lk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Saved folks that are not discipled in the word. No root in doctrinal truth with which to sustain them. They are not lost to eternity just of little or no value in service to the Lord.

Mt 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
These verses in Mat 5,6,7 are sermon on the mount in which Jesus taught kingdom principals. Note we are not literally salt so why would one presume the the casting out would be literal? Figurative language leads you to a literal conclusion that beleivers are cast out and lost eternally? Not exactly convincing.

Why the warning?
Whom is Christ warning?

Lk 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Firstfruits
If you really want to overwhelm yourself view luke 14:35 in light of Mark 9:49-50

So what does it mean for a believer to fall away? What does it mean to you?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome
Jan 29th 2011, 09:41 PM
You know, it always struck me as strange concerning this 'salt' teaching straight from the mouth of Christ Jesus. You see, the story of him teaching the people this begins in Matthew chapter 5 and continues through chapter 7. All that time, it is the same time. Jesus was just simply teaching the people such SIMPLE truths. Thing like this:

Matthew 5:13-16
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Simple! Simple. And yet, read to the end of chapter 7 and the Bible records the fact that the people were "ASTONISHED AT HIS DOCTRINE." To me, he was teaching simple, basic truths. Very basic.

But apparently, that astonished many. I wonder why...
Did it clash with their understanding? Was it too deep for them to understand? Did it go contrary to their beliefs?

I just find it strange that the people were 'astonished' at such doctrine. And sometimes, they still are.
Were they astonished at the doctrine or the authority with which He taught it? Even today it is evident when the Holy Spirit is delivering the message and when it just the man pontificating.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Diggindeeper
Jan 29th 2011, 09:42 PM
It means he is no longer any good. A branch that needs to be cut off and discarded. Burned. Same with being the salt of the earth. Or let your light shine before men. If it ain't shinin', it helps no one in darkness.

Simple truths. Very simple.

EDIT: to add this quote that I was referring to...


What does it mean? Does it mean to lose eternal life? God forbid! Does it mean to impair fellowship with the Lord? Does it mean to invite chastisement? What of the man in 1 Cor 5:1-5?

Saved folks that are not discipled in the word. No root in doctrinal truth with which to sustain them. They are not lost to eternity just of little or no value in service to the Lord.

These verses in Mat 5,6,7 are sermon on the mount in which Jesus taught kingdom principals. Note we are not literally salt so why would one presume the the casting out would be literal? Figurative language leads you to a literal conclusion that beleivers are cast out and lost eternally? Not exactly convincing.

Whom is Christ warning?

If you really want to overwhelm yourself view luke 14:35 in light of Mark 9:49-50

So what does it mean for a believer to fall away? What does it mean to you?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

BroRog
Jan 29th 2011, 09:46 PM
I think Jesus intended for these three to be considered together.


13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.While Salt is a preservative, preservation isn't the concept behind a city set on a hill or a candlestick on a table. In order to understand what Jesus meant, we need to find a common principle behind all three examples. What does salt have in common with a city set on a hill and a candle left out in the open, i.e. not under a basket?

notuptome
Jan 29th 2011, 10:00 PM
The doubt is actually generated by doctrine that says a Christian CAN'T fall away when scripture CLEARLY warns us that a Christian CAN.

That is where the doubt comes from Roger. When a person puts their doctrine forth as the truth instead of the Word of God as the Truth. God warns us so very clearly that we can fall away and that we need to endure while we run the race. Then others come along and push their doctrine on top of God's Truth and they try to drown God's Truth under the doctrine.

That is waht is creating doubt and that is why threads like this are needed for the Body of Christ to be edified. The Body of Christ needs SOME to always bring forth God's Truth so doctrine can be put aside and those who seek God's Truth will be FREED of the bondage, such doctrine has over them.
Apart from sound teaching of biblical doctrine there is no edification. The wiggly giggly stuff just don't cut it. Jesus taught doctrine, the apostles taught doctrine and every pastor worth his salt teaches bible doctrine. There is something wrong with a heart that has little regard for doctrine. The 119th Psalm is all about doctrine. A Christian cannot grow if he does not fill himself with Gods word. The Holy Spirit takes the word of God and cause us to grow in Christ. If you want to be useful to God study Gods word. You want to increase faith study Gods word.

When you learn Gods word you will know that a Christian cannot be lost eternally. The Holy Spirit should confirm this in your heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome
Jan 29th 2011, 10:17 PM
It means he is no longer any good. A branch that needs to be cut off and discarded. Burned. Same with being the salt of the earth. Or let your light shine before men. If it ain't shinin', it helps no one in darkness.

Simple truths. Very simple.

EDIT: to add this quote that I was referring to...
Wait I thought you don't believe in the kingdom? You know the one thousand year reign of Christ from the throne of David in Jerusalem at the end of the tribulation..

Any how not serving is hardly cause for execution in Gods kingdom. Heb 12:6-11 God wants His children to serve Him and produce fruit but even the guy in 1 Cor 5:1-5 was not lost for eternity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome
Jan 29th 2011, 10:23 PM
I think Jesus intended for these three to be considered together.

While Salt is a preservative, preservation isn't the concept behind a city set on a hill or a candlestick on a table. In order to understand what Jesus meant, we need to find a common principle behind all three examples. What does salt have in common with a city set on a hill and a candle left out in the open, i.e. not under a basket?
Salt also symbolizes purity. Perhaps that will help.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Slug1
Jan 29th 2011, 10:59 PM
Apart from sound teaching of biblical doctrine there is no edification. The wiggly giggly stuff just don't cut it. Jesus taught doctrine, the apostles taught doctrine and every pastor worth his salt teaches bible doctrine. There is something wrong with a heart that has little regard for doctrine. The 119th Psalm is all about doctrine. A Christian cannot grow if he does not fill himself with Gods word. The Holy Spirit takes the word of God and cause us to grow in Christ. If you want to be useful to God study Gods word. You want to increase faith study Gods word.

When you learn Gods word you will know that a Christian cannot be lost eternally. The Holy Spirit should confirm this in your heart.

For the cause of Christ
RogerRoger... Jesus, the Apostles, taught God's Truth... His doctrine. Man has taken the Word of God and turned it into various "isms" and various doctrines and many have just enough hint of truth to fool people and get them to believe the doctrine instead of God's truth or His doctrine.

I have studied God's Word and that is WHY I have been freed of a man made doctrine that states people cannot be lost eternally. The Holy Spirit is who led me to this freedom and bondage to that doctrine and guides me through the Bible and points out the importance of the warnings in the Bible about the fact a person can fall away, or how they can be cut off. All that scripture wasn't in the doctrines that I was once bound by and since I held to that doctrine, all the scriptures in the Bible... was IGNORED.

No more. So YES... God's Word as doctrine I have no problem with because for many years I avoided this because I'd rather remain safe in my sin nor did I plan to even move out of a pew and do anything for God because a doctrine I followed said that I cannot be eternally lost. We can, scripture says so despite all you say. All you say is all I said when I'd rather follow such a doctrine instead of God's Word and His doctrine... which I now call, TRUTH.

Firstfruits
Jan 30th 2011, 09:07 AM
It means he is no longer any good. A branch that needs to be cut off and discarded. Burned. Same with being the salt of the earth. Or let your light shine before men. If it ain't shinin', it helps no one in darkness.

Simple truths. Very simple.

EDIT: to add this quote that I was referring to...


Maybe we cannot accept that it can be so simple.

2 Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Brother Mark
Jan 30th 2011, 02:16 PM
My understanding of the following scripture is that a believer that no longer works is good for nothing. The believer no longer does as he/she should.

Mt 5:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Believers can be cast out.

Firstfruits

Salt is not about works. Light is. But not salt. Salt is grace. If a believer loses grace, he is no longer useful because he has lost his flavor. He is disqualified to bring grace (flavor) to the lost and will no longer be light through his works.

Firstfruits
Jan 30th 2011, 04:22 PM
Salt is not about works. Light is. But not salt. Salt is grace. If a believer loses grace, he is no longer useful because he has lost his flavor. He is disqualified to bring grace (flavor) to the lost and will no longer be light through his works.

What you are saying then is, we are the grace of the world, how do you show that you are grace?

How would you lose your grace?

Firstfruits

notuptome
Jan 31st 2011, 05:24 PM
Why are Christians salt and light? Salt is a preserver a holder back of corruption. Salt is used to preserve fish in the middle east and makes ham taste real good here in the states. Christians hold back corruption in society. Christians as light dispell darkness. We bear the word of God to a world lost in darkness.

We are to be holy and pure as Christ is holy and pure. We are to speak of Christ and reflect His light into the world around us. We don't laugh at dirty jokes or lewd remarks. We are offended for the sake of our Lord and Saviour. If not then our light may as well be under a basket and our salt is no longre salty.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Firstfruits
Jan 31st 2011, 08:05 PM
Why are Christians salt and light? Salt is a preserver a holder back of corruption. Salt is used to preserve fish in the middle east and makes ham taste real good here in the states. Christians hold back corruption in society. Christians as light dispell darkness. We bear the word of God to a world lost in darkness.

We are to be holy and pure as Christ is holy and pure. We are to speak of Christ and reflect His light into the world around us. We don't laugh at dirty jokes or lewd remarks. We are offended for the sake of our Lord and Saviour. If not then our light may as well be under a basket and our salt is no longre salty.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If a christian light is under a basket or is no longer salty, what good is he to Jesus?

Firstfruits

notuptome
Jan 31st 2011, 08:16 PM
If a christian light is under a basket or is no longer salty, what good is he to Jesus?

Firstfruits
Is Gods love conditioned upon our usefulness? To whom much is given much is expected. Each Christian must give account to God for his or her own deeds and that for rewards sake not for eternal salvation. How you judge another believer is how you will be judged. These things are best left to God Who alone can see into the heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

episkopos
Jan 31st 2011, 09:17 PM
Salt is a preservative. Salt preserves the world. Remember when Abraham asked that if there were 10 righteous men in the city, would God not destroy the cities. So Abraham was asking if the preservation power of 10 righteous men was enough to preserve the cities from destruction. We are still called to righteousness through behaving righteously. There is an expression that says "he's the salt of the earth". This is equated with having a good character.

So we see that salt represents righteousness. The Old Covenant was a covenant of salt. The OT was based on righteousness.

"All scripture (OT text) [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" 2 Tim. 3:16

Light represents the Christlike attribute of holiness. The one who shines a light is one who shows the power of the life to come...spiritual life!!!! The people of Galilee has seen a great Light. Jesus said..."I am the light of the world". We become light to the world through Christ indwelling us.

So, righteousness is equated to salt.
Holiness in Christ is the light.

Firstfruits
Jan 31st 2011, 09:22 PM
Is Gods love conditioned upon our usefulness? To whom much is given much is expected. Each Christian must give account to God for his or her own deeds and that for rewards sake not for eternal salvation. How you judge another believer is how you will be judged. These things are best left to God Who alone can see into the heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If the world cannot see who you are because you are not different to how the world lives, what is the point of being there?

Firstfruits

notuptome
Jan 31st 2011, 09:42 PM
If the world cannot see who you are because you are not different to how the world lives, what is the point of being there?

Firstfruits
What we may see today may not be what Gods sees in the tomorrow. Why do you feel compelled to judge another? The one you judge least likely may be the one God will anoint to do great things tomorrow or next year. Leave it to God and get busy telling souls of the saving grace of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Firstfruits
Jan 31st 2011, 10:54 PM
What we may see today may not be what Gods sees in the tomorrow. Why do you feel compelled to judge another? The one you judge least likely may be the one God will anoint to do great things tomorrow or next year. Leave it to God and get busy telling souls of the saving grace of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Salt changes, light changes and affects those around.

Firstfruits

Slug1
Feb 1st 2011, 04:31 PM
What we may see today may not be what Gods sees in the tomorrow. Why do you feel compelled to judge another? The one you judge least likely may be the one God will anoint to do great things tomorrow or next year. Leave it to God and get busy telling souls of the saving grace of God.

For the cause of Christ
RogerHooah Roger... so a person is later anointed and empowered to be salty. Here's the scripture again:

v13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

Clearly we see that a person that was anointed and made salty, CAN also LOOSE that salt. The scripture also shows us a result of this LOOSING of salt... the person is thrown out and trampled by men. Why men? Is it because the person in now BACK in the world away from Christ since they chose to not be salty anymore and God can't use them effectively anymore?

RollTide21
Feb 1st 2011, 05:22 PM
Hooah Roger... so a person is later anointed and empowered to be salty. Here's the scripture again:

v13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

Clearly we see that a person that was anointed and made salty, CAN also LOOSE that salt. The scripture also shows us a result of this LOOSING of salt... the person is thrown out and trampled by men. Why men? Is it because the person in now BACK in the world away from Christ since they chose to not be salty anymore and God can't use them effectively anymore?It means that a Christian without a Christian testimony is a joke among secular society and a detriment to the Faith. Which is true.

Slug1
Feb 1st 2011, 05:41 PM
It means that a Christian without a Christian testimony is a joke among secular society and a detriment to the Faith. Which is true.So applying your thought, I'm just brainstorming now... a person with a present Christain testimony, the snapshot of their life at this moment show's salt.

Then the scripture asks, //"if" the salt losses it's flavor, how shall it be seasoned//... so what does this mean for any "future" Christian testimony?

Is such a Christian to ride the wave of their past testimony because there is no present or any possible future testimony?

Testimony is all about God working in us and through us! We are given testimony and then give/speak it to others so God can be glorified. Testimony changes (increases) daily. If there is no more of Him working in us and/or through us so that there is no more testimony... what does this mean?

Sure, plenty of testimony of long ago when God did mighty work in and through a person, but what now?

Firstfruits
Feb 2nd 2011, 09:38 AM
Hooah Roger... so a person is later anointed and empowered to be salty. Here's the scripture again:

v13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

Clearly we see that a person that was anointed and made salty, CAN also LOOSE that salt. The scripture also shows us a result of this LOOSING of salt... the person is thrown out and trampled by men. Why men? Is it because the person in now BACK in the world away from Christ since they chose to not be salty anymore and God can't use them effectively anymore?

Amen Slug1,

God bless!

Firstfruits

notuptome
Feb 2nd 2011, 03:12 PM
Hooah Roger... so a person is later anointed and empowered to be salty. Here's the scripture again:

v13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

Clearly we see that a person that was anointed and made salty, CAN also LOOSE that salt. The scripture also shows us a result of this LOOSING of salt... the person is thrown out and trampled by men. Why men? Is it because the person in now BACK in the world away from Christ since they chose to not be salty anymore and God can't use them effectively anymore?
What we see is that men are not able to judge as God judges. You cast aside those who God will use mightily in the future. Some of the greatest witnesses for Christ had to endure some really low times before they were prepared to serve the Lord.

God does not call upon the mighty but the meek and lowly. Scripture warns us very clearly that pride goes before the fall. When you think you stand you are about to fall.

To rightly divide the word one must approach it with a humble heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Slug1
Feb 2nd 2011, 03:23 PM
What we see is that men are not able to judge as God judges. You cast aside those who God will use mightily in the future. Some of the greatest witnesses for Christ had to endure some really low times before they were prepared to serve the Lord.

God does not call upon the mighty but the meek and lowly. I agree with you Roger.


To rightly divide the word one must approach it with a humble heart.I agree with this too... so why are you only dividing 1/2 that scripture? You are ignoring the part about LOOSING salt and the part about being tossed out due to loosing that salt. Not very good division on your part ;)

BroRog
Feb 2nd 2011, 03:30 PM
Hooah Roger... so a person is later anointed and empowered to be salty. Here's the scripture again:

v13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

Clearly we see that a person that was anointed and made salty, CAN also LOOSE that salt. The scripture also shows us a result of this LOOSING of salt... the person is thrown out and trampled by men. Why men? Is it because the person in now BACK in the world away from Christ since they chose to not be salty anymore and God can't use them effectively anymore?Where are you getting this from the text? Why do you think Jesus is talking about a "Christian witness", or "being used by God"?

Slug1
Feb 2nd 2011, 03:35 PM
Where are you getting this from the text? Why do you think Jesus is talking about a "Christian witness", or "being used by God"?I was just replying to Roger's post. I'm still trying to figure out why he's ignoring most of that scripture. Have you read through the thread so you're up to date of the discussion, or just picking on a single post and you have no idea what's being discussed?

Firstfruits
Feb 2nd 2011, 03:39 PM
Where are you getting this from the text? Why do you think Jesus is talking about a "Christian witness", or "being used by God"?

I believe it is because Jesus would not be speaking of someone that was not being used by him through his word.

Do you see otherwise?

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 2nd 2011, 03:44 PM
I was just replying to Roger's post. I'm still trying to figure out why he's ignoring most of that scripture. Have you read through the thread so you're up to date of the discussion, or just picking on a single post and you have no idea what's being discussed?I've followed it from the beginning.

BroRog
Feb 2nd 2011, 03:45 PM
I believe it is because Jesus would not be speaking of someone that was not being used by him through his word.

Do you see otherwise?

FirstfruitsYes, I see otherwise.

Slug1
Feb 2nd 2011, 03:48 PM
I've followed it from the beginning.Then I will direct you back to post #37 and #38. All I was, was brainstorming.

Firstfruits
Feb 2nd 2011, 03:51 PM
Yes, I see otherwise.

Can a sinner be the salt of the earth or the light of the world (other than Michael Jackson)? :spin:

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Feb 2nd 2011, 08:50 PM
Were are either the salt of the earth or we are not, we cannot be both.

Jas 3:12 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=12) Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 3rd 2011, 12:46 AM
Can a sinner be the salt of the earth or the light of the world (other than Michael Jackson)? :spin:

FirstfruitsWhen Jesus says "You are the salt of the earth." Who is the "you" in that statement? Who is Jesus talking to?

Firstfruits
Feb 3rd 2011, 08:55 AM
When Jesus says "You are the salt of the earth." Who is the "you" in that statement? Who is Jesus talking to?

He is speaking to believers that will spread his word.

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 3rd 2011, 04:09 PM
He is speaking to believers that will spread his word.

FirstfruitsI think if you read the passage again, you will see that Jesus is speaking to the crowds who gathered to hear him preach. I don't think the text says they were believers.

Firstfruits
Feb 4th 2011, 03:00 PM
I think if you read the passage again, you will see that Jesus is speaking to the crowds who gathered to hear him preach. I don't think the text says they were believers.

According to what is written Jesus is speaking to his disciples.

1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

If not the disciples then whose reward is great in heaven?

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 4th 2011, 04:18 PM
According to what is written Jesus is speaking to his disciples.

1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

If not the disciples then whose reward is great in heaven?

FirstfruitsWere the multitudes in attendence also?

RollTide21
Feb 4th 2011, 04:56 PM
Were the multitudes in attendence also?Actually, the Scripture seems a little vague. Did Jesus go up into the mountain to preach to the multitudes, or did he go up to get away from them so He could meet with the disciples privately?

It actually seems like the latter, to me.

Firstfruits
Feb 4th 2011, 08:49 PM
Were the multitudes in attendence also?

I believe as Rolltide has said that he went up to the mountain to get away from the multitude, which is when his disciples came to him.

1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Feb 4th 2011, 08:51 PM
Actually, the Scripture seems a little vague. Did Jesus go up into the mountain to preach to the multitudes, or did he go up to get away from them so He could meet with the disciples privately?

It actually seems like the latter, to me.

Amen!

I agree,

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 5th 2011, 01:17 AM
Actually, the Scripture seems a little vague. Did Jesus go up into the mountain to preach to the multitudes, or did he go up to get away from them so He could meet with the disciples privately?

It actually seems like the latter, to me.Yes, it does sound like that. What do you make of Matthew 7:28-8:1 though?

Firstfruits
Feb 5th 2011, 10:30 AM
Yes, it does sound like that. What do you make of Matthew 7:28-8:1 though?

Jesus was still talking to believers, when he came down from the mountain the multitudes again followed him.

God bless!

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 5th 2011, 04:39 PM
Jesus was still talking to believers, when he came down from the mountain the multitudes again followed him.

God bless!

FirstfruitsWhat I see is Jesus talking to crowds of people, telling them that they are the salt of the earth.

Firstfruits
Feb 5th 2011, 04:45 PM
What I see is Jesus talking to crowds of people, telling them that they are the salt of the earth.

Who then is Jesus saying that "great is their reward in heaven", believers or unbelievers?

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 5th 2011, 04:48 PM
Who then is Jesus saying that "great is their reward in heaven", believers or unbelievers?

FirstfruitsThe Blessed .

Firstfruits
Feb 5th 2011, 04:59 PM
The Blessed .

So who is Jesus speaking to in this scripture?

Mt 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 5th 2011, 05:14 PM
So who is Jesus speaking to in this scripture?

Mt 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

FirstfruitsI already answered this. Jesus is speaking to the crowds. What's your point?

Firstfruits
Feb 5th 2011, 05:23 PM
I already answered this. Jesus is speaking to the crowds. What's your point?

Then he would be speaking to believers.

Mt 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 5th 2011, 06:15 PM
Then he would be speaking to believers.

Mt 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

FirstfruitsI disagree. Again, he is speaking to the crowds. While speaking to the crowds he says, "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." The reward in heaven is being given to those who are being persecuted and insulted for the sake of Jesus. He is talking TO the crowds, but not necessarily ABOUT the entire crowd at this point. Those in the crowd know which one of them are being persecuted because of Jesus. This is just the nature of speaking to crowds.

Once he leaves the subject of those who are "Blessed", he is still talking to the crowds when he says, "You are the salt of the earth." Being the salt of the earth has nothing to do with being persecuted because of Jesus. He isn't saying, "you Christians are the salt of the earth." And he isn't saying, "you believers are the salt of the earth." He is saying, "you sons and daughters of Israel who have come from Galilee, Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and from beyond the Jordan", you are the salt of the earth.

What makes them salt?

You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.

Salt has many qualities and purposes but Jesus focus our attention on one particular quality of salt: taste. Yes, salt is a preservative. But that is not the quality of salt Jesus has in mind. His analogy takes advantage of the fact that when we put salt in our food, it has such a distinct taste that we can tell if the food has salt in it or not. No matter what other tastes are in the food, we can always recognize the flavor of salt.

How can salt loose it's saltiness? The salt of Jesus' time was not pure salt. It was mixed with other minerals and if perchance the mixture had come in contact with water, the salt would leach out, leaving only the other minerals behind. When this happens, the mixture isn't providing the salt taste and is no longer useful as a condiment or a flavoring, which is why the mixture is poured out on the ground.

The Jewish people were supposed to be a distinct people. God designed many of her customs and practices in order to set them apart from other cultures of the world. And through these distinctive cultural practices, the Jewish people were supposed to learn that they needed to be a holy people, distinct not only in their dress and culture but in their moral outlook as well.

Jesus is warning the crowds that if they cease to be a distinct and holy people, they will be of no use to God. Later, Jesus will predict that Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Firstfruits
Feb 5th 2011, 06:27 PM
I disagree. Again, he is speaking to the crowds. While speaking to the crowds he says, "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." The reward in heaven is being given to those who are being persecuted and insulted for the sake of Jesus. He is talking TO the crowds, but not necessarily ABOUT the entire crowd at this point. Those in the crowd know which one of them are being persecuted because of Jesus. This is just the nature of speaking to crowds.

Once he leaves the subject of those who are "Blessed", he is still talking to the crowds when he says, "You are the salt of the earth." Being the salt of the earth has nothing to do with being persecuted because of Jesus. He isn't saying, "you Christians are the salt of the earth." And he isn't saying, "you believers are the salt of the earth." He is saying, "you sons and daughters of Israel who have come from Galilee, Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and from beyond the Jordan", you are the salt of the earth.

What makes them salt?

You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.

Salt has many qualities and purposes but Jesus focus our attention on one particular quality of salt: taste. Yes, salt is a preservative. But that is not the quality of salt Jesus has in mind. His analogy takes advantage of the fact that when we put salt in our food, it has such a distinct taste that we can tell if the food has salt in it or not. No matter what other tastes are in the food, we can always recognize the flavor of salt.

How can salt loose it's saltiness? The salt of Jesus' time was not pure salt. It was mixed with other minerals and if perchance the mixture had come in contact with water, the salt would leach out, leaving only the other minerals behind. When this happens, the mixture isn't providing the salt taste and is no longer useful as a condiment or a flavoring, which is why the mixture is poured out on the ground.

The Jewish people were supposed to be a distinct people. God designed many of her customs and practices in order to set them apart from other cultures of the world. And through these distinctive cultural practices, the Jewish people were supposed to learn that they needed to be a holy people, distinct not only in their dress and culture but in their moral outlook as well.

Jesus is warning the crowds that if they cease to be a distinct and holy people, they will be of no use to God. Later, Jesus will predict that Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Are you saying that losing our saltiness does not apply to all believers and not just Jews?

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 6th 2011, 01:28 AM
Are you saying that losing our saltiness does not apply to all believers and not just Jews?

FirstfruitsI'm saying let's not always accept the popular interpretations of scripture, but actually think about what we read and come to the right interpretation. Jesus is talking to the crowds, saying that they are the salt of the earth. Any conclusion we draw about ourselves must take that into account.

Firstfruits
Feb 6th 2011, 08:48 PM
I'm saying let's not always accept the popular interpretations of scripture, but actually think about what we read and come to the right interpretation. Jesus is talking to the crowds, saying that they are the salt of the earth. Any conclusion we draw about ourselves must take that into account.

But should that which is written not be above mens thoughts.

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 6th 2011, 09:12 PM
But should that which is written not be above mens thoughts.

FirstfruitsI don't know what you mean.

Firstfruits
Feb 7th 2011, 09:34 AM
I don't know what you mean.

What reason would Jesus have to go up into the mountain?

Why would it then say that the disciples came to him, could there be a crowd of disciples?

Look at these scriptures the first have the disciples around him, the second is when he comes down from the mountain that the multitude follow him.

Mt 5:1 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=1) And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

Mt 8:1 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=8&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=1) When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him.

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 7th 2011, 03:35 PM
What reason would Jesus have to go up into the mountain?

Why would it then say that the disciples came to him, could there be a crowd of disciples?

Look at these scriptures the first have the disciples around him, the second is when he comes down from the mountain that the multitude follow him.

Mt 5:1 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=1) And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

Mt 8:1 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=8&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=1) When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him.

FirstfruitsI'm not following you here. Why does any speaker attempt to rise above a crowd? To be heard of course. What has this to do with his announcement that the crowds were the salt of the earth?

Firstfruits
Feb 7th 2011, 03:50 PM
I'm not following you here. Why does any speaker attempt to rise above a crowd? To be heard of course. What has this to do with his announcement that the crowds were the salt of the earth?

It says that the disciples came unto him when he went up into the mountain.

Why would it then say that the disciples came to him, and not the multitude that followed him?

Mt 4:25 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=25) And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

Mt 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

Mt 14:23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.

It appears that Jesus went up into the mountain to be alone, or to get away from the mutitudes.

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 7th 2011, 10:25 PM
It says that the disciples came unto him when he went up into the mountain.

Why would it then say that the disciples came to him, and not the multitude that followed him?

Mt 4:25 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=25) And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

Mt 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

Mt 14:23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.

It appears that Jesus went up into the mountain to be alone, or to get away from the mutitudes.

FirstfruitsWhen I read this passage, the mental picture that forms has Jesus climing up a little ways on the mountain so as to gain a slight elevation change that will help him be heard when he preaches. Depending on the size of the crowd, he only needs to be 7ft. to 10ft higher than the crowd. And having found a seat that was higher than the crowd, his disciples gathered around him and sat next to him.

Firstfruits
Feb 8th 2011, 09:17 AM
When I read this passage, the mental picture that forms has Jesus climing up a little ways on the mountain so as to gain a slight elevation change that will help him be heard when he preaches. Depending on the size of the crowd, he only needs to be 7ft. to 10ft higher than the crowd. And having found a seat that was higher than the crowd, his disciples gathered around him and sat next to him.

Why was it only the disciples that came to Jesus and not the multitude that followed him?

Mt 4:25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan. (Multitudes)

Mt 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: (Disciples)

When was the multitude seen to follow Jesus again?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Feb 14th 2011, 03:55 PM
With regards to what Jesus said in this scripture, can those that do not believe and do not do the will of God be called the salt of the earth?

Mt 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

What can an unbeliever lose that would cause them to be cast out?

Firstfruits

Neanias
Feb 14th 2011, 05:11 PM
Hmmm... I would say it's like the virgins that had no oil left in their lamps. They were (or will be) bound hands and feet and cast out. So the salt is cast out and trodden under foot.

I think that would be losing the living faith that causes us to follow the Lord. We can have 'belief', but so do the demons. We need living faith! I would say that's what it is.

Just my two cents :)

Be blessed

Firstfruits
Feb 14th 2011, 07:43 PM
Hmmm... I would say it's like the virgins that had no oil left in their lamps. They were (or will be) bound hands and feet and cast out. So the salt is cast out and trodden under foot.

I think that would be losing the living faith that causes us to follow the Lord. We can have 'belief', but so do the demons. We need living faith! I would say that's what it is.

Just my two cents :)

Be blessed

Thank you Neanias,

What then would you say is "living faith"?

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 15th 2011, 03:07 AM
With regards to what Jesus said in this scripture, can those that do not believe and do not do the will of God be called the salt of the earth?

Mt 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

What can an unbeliever lose that would cause them to be cast out?

FirstfruitsYou are asking leading questions, which contain the answer in the question. The real question is what did Jesus mean by "you are the salt".

CommanderRobey
Feb 15th 2011, 05:11 AM
My understanding of the following scripture is that a believer that no longer works is good for nothing. The believer no longer does as he/she should.

Mt 5:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus%20king%20lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Believers can be cast out.

Firstfruits
So the Christian who is is quadraplegic, the bedridden, etc., are good for nothing and should be cast aside. I see. Reckon I'd better tell our pianist's mother that her husband is a no account since he is a quad and no longer able to work.

CommanderRobey
Feb 15th 2011, 05:27 AM
Hooah Roger... so a person is later anointed and empowered to be salty. Here's the scripture again:

v13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

Clearly we see that a person that was anointed and made salty, CAN also LOOSE that salt. The scripture also shows us a result of this LOOSING of salt... the person is thrown out and trampled by men. Why men? Is it because the person in now BACK in the world away from Christ since they chose to not be salty anymore and God can't use them effectively anymore?
Yes, Jesus told the Apostles that they were the salt of the world, but He was telling the crowds too. But later, He reveals to us that Peter had not even been converted yet. Peter's saltiness was not effective until after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

CommanderRobey
Feb 15th 2011, 05:40 AM
What I see is Jesus talking to crowds of people, telling them that they are the salt of the earth.Amen! It is obvious that the multitudes followed Jesus and the Disciples up the mountain by how the end of Chapter 7 is worded.

Matthew 7:28-29 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

The people were astonished at His doctrines BEFORE He came down from the mountain, so they had to have heard Him speaking.

Firstfruits
Feb 15th 2011, 09:04 AM
You are asking leading questions, which contain the answer in the question. The real question is what did Jesus mean by "you are the salt".

If they are leading questions that have the answer in the question, does that mean that the answer to this question is "NO"?

With regards to what Jesus said in this scripture, can those that do not believe and do not do the will of God be called the salt of the earth?

With regards to what Jesus meant, we should expect that the salt is who Jesus can depend on to do the will of God.

Firstfruits

BroRog
Feb 15th 2011, 03:44 PM
With regards to what Jesus said in this scripture, can those that do not believe and do not do the will of God be called the salt of the earth?Before we answer this question, we need to understand what Jesus meant. Only when we understand what Jesus meant, can we make application.

RollTide21
Feb 15th 2011, 04:11 PM
So the Christian who is is quadraplegic, the bedridden, etc., are good for nothing and should be cast aside. I see. Reckon I'd better tell our pianist's mother that her husband is a no account since he is a quad and no longer able to work.Not that I am completely on board with Firstfruits, but how did you come to that conclusion based on FF's post? He's not talking about working as in doing physical work.

RollTide21
Feb 15th 2011, 04:12 PM
Amen! It is obvious that the multitudes followed Jesus and the Disciples up the mountain by how the end of Chapter 7 is worded.

Matthew 7:28-29 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

The people were astonished at His doctrines BEFORE He came down from the mountain, so they had to have heard Him speaking.Ah. Good point.

Firstfruits
Feb 15th 2011, 04:24 PM
Before we answer this question, we need to understand what Jesus meant. Only when we understand what Jesus meant, can we make application.

If salt that has lost its savour is cast out would that mean it is no longer acceptable for use, so at some point it must have been good for use, is that a fair assumption?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Feb 15th 2011, 04:28 PM
Ah. Good point.

Have a look at these scriptures, who comes before the Lord in the first?

When is the multitude seen to follow Jesus?

Mt 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

Mt 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him.

Firstfruits

CommanderRobey
Feb 15th 2011, 05:57 PM
Not that I am completely on board with Firstfruits, but how did you come to that conclusion based on FF's post? He's not talking about working as in doing physical work.

A quad, such as the pianist' father is, is unable to get out and witness. He has no lung power and can barely talk at a whisper.

Is he good for nothing? Should he be cast away?

CommanderRobey
Feb 15th 2011, 06:01 PM
Have a look at these scriptures, who comes before the Lord in the first?

When is the multitude seen to follow Jesus?

Mt 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

Mt 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him.

Firstfruits

So the entire Sermon on the Mount was for the Disciples alone? Makes no sense.

Chapter 7 records that the people were astonished at His doctrines... not the Disciples. Had it been only the Disciples that heard it, the verse would have said the Disciples were astonished..

RollTide21
Feb 15th 2011, 06:17 PM
A quad, such as the pianist' father is, is unable to get out and witness. He has no lung power and can barely talk at a whisper.

Is he good for nothing? Should he be cast away?Of course not. God can use a quadrapeligic to further the Kingdom just as well as anyone else. More, in many cases.

FirstFruits wasn't insinuating that a person who couldn't do something physically was of no use to God.

CommanderRobey
Feb 15th 2011, 06:43 PM
Of course not. God can use a quadrapeligic to further the Kingdom just as well as anyone else. More, in many cases.

FirstFruits wasn't insinuating that a person who couldn't do something physically was of no use to God.
That's not what the OP implies though. The OP implies that as soon as someone is unable to witness anymore, they are good for nothing but to be cast out.

BroRog
Feb 15th 2011, 07:06 PM
If salt that has lost its savour is cast out would that mean it is no longer acceptable for use, so at some point it must have been good for use, is that a fair assumption?

FirstfruitsYes. Continue .

Firstfruits
Feb 15th 2011, 09:06 PM
That's not what the OP implies though. The OP implies that as soon as someone is unable to witness anymore, they are good for nothing but to be cast out.

That is not what I am saying, it is the life you lived for christ that is no longer seen and you become Just like those we are witnessing to.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Feb 15th 2011, 09:07 PM
Yes. Continue .

Would then be fair to say that Jesus was speaking to believers?

Firstfruits

CommanderRobey
Feb 15th 2011, 09:16 PM
Would then be fair to say that Jesus was speaking to believers?

Firstfruits
Not necessarily. Many followed Jesus for miracles alone. Notice John 6:

John 6:63-68 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

BroRog
Feb 15th 2011, 10:36 PM
Would then be fair to say that Jesus was speaking to believers?

FirstfruitsI agree with the Commander. Jesus was speaking to a crowd of people. The text doesn't say they were believers.

episkopos
Feb 16th 2011, 01:36 AM
Would then be fair to say that Jesus was speaking to believers?

Firstfruits

Of course! One does not call something that is NOT salt...salt.

Firstfruits
Feb 16th 2011, 12:41 PM
Not necessarily. Many followed Jesus for miracles alone. Notice John 6:

John 6:63-68 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

It is understood that multitudes followed Jesus, but there were times when Jesus went up to the mountains to get away from them and only his disciples would be with him.

Mt 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

Jn 6:3 And Jesus went up into a mountain, and there he sat with his disciples.

This is why I believe he was talking to believers, his disciples.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Feb 16th 2011, 12:43 PM
Of course! One does not call something that is NOT salt...salt.

I agree!

Firstfruits

CommanderRobey
Feb 16th 2011, 06:26 PM
It is understood that multitudes followed Jesus, but there were times when Jesus went up to the mountains to get away from them and only his disciples would be with him.

Mt 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

Jn 6:3 And Jesus went up into a mountain, and there he sat with his disciples.

This is why I believe he was talking to believers, his disciples.

Firstfruits

When Jesus went into the mountains to get away from people, the word 'apart' always appeared in the verses. Notice:

Matthew 14:13 When Jesus heard of it, he departed thence by ship into a desert place apart: and when the people had heard thereof, they followed him on foot out of the cities.

Matthew 14:23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.

Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Matthew 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,

Mark 6:31 And he said unto them, Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place, and rest a while: for there were many coming and going, and they had no leisure so much as to eat.

Mark 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

But in Matthew 5, the word apart is not used.

He did not separate Himself from the 5000. He only went a little higher than them. They were still able to hear His message as indicated at the end of it in Chapter 7.

Firstfruits
Feb 16th 2011, 07:33 PM
When Jesus went into the mountains to get away from people, the word 'apart' always appeared in the verses. Notice:

Matthew 14:13 When Jesus heard of it, he departed thence by ship into a desert place apart: and when the people had heard thereof, they followed him on foot out of the cities.

Matthew 14:23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.

Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Matthew 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,

Mark 6:31 And he said unto them, Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place, and rest a while: for there were many coming and going, and they had no leisure so much as to eat.

Mark 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

But in Matthew 5, the word apart is not used.

He did not separate Himself from the 5000. He only went a little higher than them. They were still able to hear His message as indicated at the end of it in Chapter 7.

It says that his disciples came to him, and I believe that he was calling his disciples the salt of the earth.

Mt 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

The multitude are not seen to follow him until he comes down from the mountain.

Firstfruits

CommanderRobey
Feb 16th 2011, 07:55 PM
It says that his disciples came to him, and I believe that he was calling his disciples the salt of the earth.

Mt 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

The multitude are not seen to follow him until he comes down from the mountain.

Firstfruits
And yet, prior to their following Him down the mountain, there is evidence that they heard His sermon.

Matthew 7:28-29 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

It is clear the people heard the message.

Firstfruits
Feb 16th 2011, 08:03 PM
And yet, prior to their following Him down the mountain, there is evidence that they heard His sermon.

Matthew 7:28-29 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

It is clear the people heard the message.

When did Jesus choose his twelve disciples and how many disciples did he have before that?

Firstfruits

CommanderRobey
Feb 16th 2011, 08:35 PM
Tell me, O enlightened one.

Firstfruits
Feb 16th 2011, 09:45 PM
Tell me, O enlightened one.

In verse one the twelve had not yet been chosen, yet he had disciples. it is not until verse thirteen that the twelve are chosen. In verse twenty it tells us that he is speaking to his disciples.

Lk 6:1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.

Lk 6:13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

Lk 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

From these scriptures Jesus was addressing his disciples. His disciples were the salt of the earth.

Firstfruits

CommanderRobey
Feb 16th 2011, 09:59 PM
In verse one the twelve had not yet been chosen, yet he had disciples. it is not until verse thirteen that the twelve are chosen. In verse twenty it tells us that he is speaking to his disciples.

Lk 6:1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.

Lk 6:13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

Lk 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

From these scriptures Jesus was addressing his disciples. His disciples were the salt of the earth.

Firstfruits
Froim Matthew's account, Jesus was speaking to the people.


Matthew 7:28-29 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Nowhere in Scripture are the Disciples referred to as 'people.' They are always referred to as either 'Disciples,' or 'Apostles.'

Firstfruits
Feb 16th 2011, 10:06 PM
Froim Matthew's account, Jesus was speaking to the people.


Matthew 7:28-29 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Nowhere in Scripture are the Disciples referred to as 'people.' They are always referred to as either 'Disciples,' or 'Apostles.'

Why are the disciples including those not chosen, not people, since it says his disciples came to him?

Firstfruits

CommanderRobey
Feb 16th 2011, 10:45 PM
Why are the disciples including those not chosen, not people, since it says his disciples came to him?

Firstfruits
Why does it say the people were astonished at His doctrine?

Firstfruits
Feb 17th 2011, 09:06 AM
Why does it say the people were astonished at His doctrine?

Why would his disciples not be astonished with regards to all that he taught them?

Matthew 7:28-29 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Feb 17th 2011, 03:01 PM
Is the following scripture a parable?

Mt 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

If it is not a parable then to whom was Jesus speaking to?

Mt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Mt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mk 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Mk 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Is the sermon on the mount parabls?

Firstfruits

CommanderRobey
Feb 17th 2011, 04:24 PM
Why would his disciples not be astonished with regards to all that he taught them?

Matthew 7:28-29 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Firstfruits

In regards to the Disciples, they were never referred to as people in the Bible. They wer always called Disciples or Apostles... as they were in Matthew 5:1,2

CommanderRobey
Feb 17th 2011, 05:01 PM
Is the sermon on the mount parabls?Obviously, it is. There are many phrases in it that reveal it is parables. Notice:

Ye are salt.
Ye are light.
Feeding pearls to swine.
A beam (plank) in your eye.
Road to destruction (have you come across a physical road that leads to hell in your journeys? I haven't)
Road to Heaven (have you come across a physical road that leads to Heaven? If so, where is it? I am sure we all would like to know)

RabbiKnife
Feb 17th 2011, 06:43 PM
The Sermon on the Mount was not a collection of parables. The SOTM was a teaching of the basic concepts that differentiate the Kingdom of God from the kingdoms of this world.

The use of metaphor does not mean that something is a parable.

CommanderRobey
Feb 17th 2011, 06:52 PM
The Sermon on the Mount was not a collection of parables. The SOTM was a teaching of the basic concepts that differentiate the Kingdom of God from the kingdoms of this world.

The use of metaphor does not mean that something is a parable.
So when was the last time you saw someone with a physical log in his eye, RK?

RabbiKnife
Feb 17th 2011, 06:53 PM
It's been a while. So what?

Firstfruits
Feb 17th 2011, 08:03 PM
The Sermon on the Mount was not a collection of parables. The SOTM was a teaching of the basic concepts that differentiate the Kingdom of God from the kingdoms of this world.

The use of metaphor does not mean that something is a parable.

That would mean that Jesus is saying that unbelievers listening to Jesus are being called the salt of the earth, not just his disciples.

Why did Jesus not explain the sermon on the mount to his disciples as he always did?

Firstfruits

RabbiKnife
Feb 17th 2011, 08:07 PM
That would mean that Jesus is saying that unbelievers listening to Jesus are being called the salt of the earth, not just his disciples.

Why did Jesus not explain the sermon on the mount to his disciples as he always did?

Firstfruits

No it doesn't. The context is very clear that he is teaching his disciples, not the crowds. The crowds were just hanging out listening.

When Jesus said, "Pass the bacon," he didn't say it in a parable.

CommanderRobey
Feb 17th 2011, 08:25 PM
No it doesn't. The context is very clear that he is teaching his disciples, not the crowds. The crowds were just hanging out listening.

When Jesus said, "Pass the bacon," he didn't say it in a parable.

Jesus never said, "Pass the bacon." You are adding to the Word of God.

CommanderRobey
Feb 17th 2011, 08:26 PM
That would mean that Jesus is saying that unbelievers listening to Jesus are being called the salt of the earth, not just his disciples.

Why did Jesus not explain the sermon on the mount to his disciples as he always did?

FirstfruitsWho says He didn't? Not everything Jesus said or did is recorded in books.

RabbiKnife
Feb 17th 2011, 08:47 PM
Jesus never said, "Pass the bacon." You are adding to the Word of God.

Relax and take a deep breath.

Jesus did not speak always in parables. If you need Bible, when Jesus said "I thirst," it was because he was thirsty, not to teach some spiritual truth that he was hiding from the Pharisees.

Jesus was teaching his disciples. As the end of the SOTM illustrates, the people were listening and understanding at the same time.

BroRog
Feb 17th 2011, 10:03 PM
Relax and take a deep breath.

Jesus did not speak always in parables. If you need Bible, when Jesus said "I thirst," it was because he was thirsty, not to teach some spiritual truth that he was hiding from the Pharisees.

Jesus was teaching his disciples. As the end of the SOTM illustrates, the people were listening and understanding at the same time.If the crowds were listening and understanding, then Jesus was teaching not only his disciples but everybody.

CommanderRobey
Feb 17th 2011, 11:54 PM
If the crowds were listening and understanding, then Jesus was teaching not only his disciples but everybody.

Exactly! Thank you.

Firstfruits
Feb 18th 2011, 09:17 AM
No it doesn't. The context is very clear that he is teaching his disciples, not the crowds. The crowds were just hanging out listening.

When Jesus said, "Pass the bacon," he didn't say it in a parable.

If Jesus was not speaking in parables knowing that the crowd was there listening, then he did not always speak in parables to unbelievers as it is written he did.

Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Mt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mk 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Mk 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Feb 18th 2011, 09:21 AM
Exactly! Thank you.

Then the sermon on the mount must be parables, which meant the disciples would not have understood his teaching.

Firstfruits

RabbiKnife
Feb 18th 2011, 01:53 PM
You guys make my head hurt. I'll leave you to it.

Firstfruits
Feb 18th 2011, 02:34 PM
You guys make my head hurt. I'll leave you to it.

Do you understand that these scriptures say that Jesus never spoke to the multitudes unless it was a parable?

Mt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mt 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Mk 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Firstfruits

RabbiKnife
Feb 18th 2011, 02:36 PM
I must confess. I hardly ever understand anything you post. All I ever see is isolated verses, often taken completely out of context, to prooftext whatever point you're trying to make.

That's why I'm leaving you guys to discuss it among yourselves.

Firstfruits
Feb 18th 2011, 03:17 PM
I must confess. I hardly ever understand anything you post. All I ever see is isolated verses, often taken completely out of context, to prooftext whatever point you're trying to make.

That's why I'm leaving you guys to discuss it among yourselves.

Would you say that these scriptures are taken out of context, did Jesus not speak to the multitudes in parables as he has said?

Mt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mt 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Mk 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Firstfruits