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kenw232
Jan 28th 2011, 09:35 PM
Can someone answer these questions for me?

1) How many individual and unique times does the bible say homosexuality is a sin or wrong.

2) Who (which bible guy, like John, Matthew, etc.) said this.

3) How many unique guys said it.

Thanks.

RabbiKnife
Jan 28th 2011, 09:43 PM
Who cares?

All sexual activity outside of that between one man and one woman within the bonds of a marital union is forbidden, so whether the bible talks about man and man or woman and woman sex is completely irrelevant. ALL sexual activity other than as permitted between a man and his wife is prohibited.

Firefighter
Jan 28th 2011, 09:44 PM
At least two guys directly address this topic in both testaments literally thousands of years apart. As far as I know, just about every writer of the NT covers it.

jayne
Jan 28th 2011, 09:52 PM
Hi, kenw232.

Here are some references.





OLD TESTAMENT

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."


NEW TESTAMENT

Romans 1:24-27 - "Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
Here's a good read with some of the same scriptures (I got them from here) a couple of suggested commentaries.

LINK (http://www.gotquestions.org/homosexuality-Bible.html)

Also look here.




There are twelve mentions of homosexuality in the Bible:

2 refer to rape (Genesis 19:5 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('Genesis_19_5')), Judges 19:22 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('Judges_19_22'))
5 refer to cult prostitution (Deuteronomy 23:17-18 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('Deuteronomy_23_17_18')), 1 Kings 14:23-24 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('1Kings_14_23_24')), 15:12-13 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('1Kings_15_12_13')), 22:46 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('1Kings_22_46')), 2 Kings 23:6-8 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('2Kings_23_6_8')))
1 refers to prostitution and pederasty (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('1Corinthians_6_9_10')))
4 are nonspecific (Leviticus 18:21-22 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('Leviticus_18_21_22')), Leviticus 20:13 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('Leviticus_20_13')), Romans 1:26-27 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('Romans_1_26_27')), 1 Timothy 1:8-10 (http://javascript<b></b>:quote('1Timothy_1_8_10')))

Diggindeeper
Jan 28th 2011, 09:56 PM
Paul especially spoke out. Loud and clear!

Romans 1:24-32
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

RabbiKnife
Jan 28th 2011, 10:06 PM
At least two guys directly address this topic in both testaments literally thousands of years apart. As far as I know, just about every writer of the NT covers it.

Would you consider Deut 22:11 to be a gay reference in the Bible?

:)

That's a little joke for FireFighter.

chad
Jan 29th 2011, 12:12 AM
The only one that I can think of, apart from the ones already mentioned is Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19).

Genesis 19: 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.” (NIV)

Genesis 19:12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”

amazzin
Jan 29th 2011, 12:14 AM
God said it. PERIOD


Can someone answer these questions for me?

1) How many individual and unique times does the bible say homosexuality is a sin or wrong.

2) Who (which bible guy, like John, Matthew, etc.) said this.

3) How many unique guys said it.

Thanks.

keck553
Jan 29th 2011, 12:29 AM
Can someone answer these questions for me?

1) How many individual and unique times does the bible say homosexuality is a sin or wrong.

2) Who (which bible guy, like John, Matthew, etc.) said this.

3) How many unique guys said it.

Thanks.

I don't get it. Do you think God doesn't mean what He says the first time around?

Firefighter
Jan 29th 2011, 02:36 AM
Would you consider Deut 22:11 to be a gay reference in the Bible?

:)

That's a little joke for FireFighter.

:lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:

moonglow
Jan 29th 2011, 03:07 AM
I think he is probably asking this because someone asked him (or her) this...don't you think?

God bless

Diggindeeper
Jan 29th 2011, 03:25 AM
I think he is probably asking this because someone asked him (or her) this...don't you think?

God bless

Well, he or she did not say that someone asked them. I thought he (or she) was asking, wanting to know for themself. (Below is actually what was said.) But, it doesn't matter. Good to know scripture references, I think, and be ready. Just in case.



Can someone answer these questions for me?

1) How many individual and unique times does the bible say homosexuality is a sin or wrong.

2) Who (which bible guy, like John, Matthew, etc.) said this.

3) How many unique guys said it.

Thanks.

moonglow
Jan 29th 2011, 04:23 AM
Well, he or she did not say that someone asked them. I thought he (or she) was asking, wanting to know for themself. (Below is actually what was said.) But, it doesn't matter. Good to know scripture references, I think, and be ready. Just in case.

True...

My intent was to hopefully calm posters down..so many getting so hostile over the question. Why not just answer it without posting so angrily? Why jump all over a brand new member like this? :( If I were the OP I sure wouldn't want to come back and ask anything else! :(

jayne
Jan 29th 2011, 04:42 AM
True...

My intent was to hopefully calm posters down..so many getting so hostile over the question. Why not just answer it without posting so angrily? Why jump all over a brand new member like this? :( If I were the OP I sure wouldn't want to come back and ask anything else! :(

Good point. Speak the truth in love, everybody, so that we can grow to be the mature body. (Eph. 4:14-16)

Diggindeeper
Jan 29th 2011, 07:19 AM
I didn't see any hostility........

VerticalReality
Jan 29th 2011, 12:35 PM
True...

My intent was to hopefully calm posters down..so many getting so hostile over the question. Why not just answer it without posting so angrily? Why jump all over a brand new member like this? :( If I were the OP I sure wouldn't want to come back and ask anything else! :(

I'm glad you said it because I see a clear absence of gentleness and meekness as well. It seems to me that some here posted while assuming that the OP was asking for the purposes of arguing the word or downplaying God's stance on homosexuality. Even if that were true, a truthful and loving response would have still been appropriate.

Some of the responses just come across as rude. That doesn't quite leave the best impression.

Firefighter
Jan 29th 2011, 03:33 PM
By all means, which posts were lacking in gentleness and which ones were rude? Do tell. This is the third time I have read through the thread and I just don't see it.

karenoka27
Jan 29th 2011, 03:47 PM
I have a question. When God said these things regarding homosexuality, adultery, gossip, gluttony etc. is He talking to all creation or to His people?

kenw232
Jan 29th 2011, 04:08 PM
The reason I asked is because I knew of one spot only. I could just as easily asked about eating shellfish (only mentioned once?). The purpose is because if something is said only only once, the bible clearly and repeatedly says its not valid.

(John 8:17) "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."
(Numbers 35:30) "Whoever kills any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die."
(Deuteronomy 17:6) "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he who is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness shall he not be put to death."
(Deuteronomy 19:15) "One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sins: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established."
(Matthew 18:16) "But if he will not hear you, then take with you one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established."
(2 Corinthians 13:1) "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

Most of the those quotes (assuming valid) apply to murder or putting a man to death only. But the idea is there. if something is said only once, its not true by default.

moonglow
Jan 29th 2011, 04:17 PM
The reason I asked is because I knew of one spot only. I could just as easily asked about eating shellfish (only mentioned once?). The purpose is because if something is said only only once, the bible clearly and repeatedly says its not valid.

(John 8:17) "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."
(Numbers 35:30) "Whoever kills any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die."
(Deuteronomy 17:6) "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he who is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness shall he not be put to death."
(Deuteronomy 19:15) "One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sins: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established."
(Matthew 18:16) "But if he will not hear you, then take with you one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established."
(2 Corinthians 13:1) "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

Most of the those quotes (assuming valid) apply to murder or putting a man to death only. But the idea is there. if something is said only once, its not true by default.

Hi kenw welcome to the board! Glad to have you here. :)

I have to say I don't think your logic works here on this very well. The bible does not say, "if a subject is only mentioned once you can ignore it". If that were true it wouldn't be in there at all. I mean seriously...why print something that we are to ignore to start with? That makes no sense.

Witnesses of two or more has nothing to do with how many times a subject in the bible is mentioned. That really is a leap there.

The witnesses in a Judgment of any kind are needed and witnesses are still used in even our court of laws. If there are no witnesses to a crime do the police just let the guy go? Or say that law doesn't exist? Of course not.

God bless

moonglow
Jan 29th 2011, 04:20 PM
By all means, which posts were lacking in gentleness and which ones were rude? Do tell. This is the third time I have read through the thread and I just don't see it.

post 2, 8, 9...and apparently I am not the only one that sees them that way either.

Athanasius
Jan 29th 2011, 04:25 PM
The reason I asked is because I knew of one spot only. I could just as easily asked about eating shellfish (only mentioned once?). The purpose is because if something is said only only once, the bible clearly and repeatedly says its not valid.

(John 8:17) "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."
(Numbers 35:30) "Whoever kills any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die."
(Deuteronomy 17:6) "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he who is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness shall he not be put to death."
(Deuteronomy 19:15) "One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sins: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established."
(Matthew 18:16) "But if he will not hear you, then take with you one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established."
(2 Corinthians 13:1) "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

Most of the those quotes (assuming valid) apply to murder or putting a man to death only. But the idea is there. if something is said only once, its not true by default.

To add to what Moonglow already said...

Truth is truth, regardless of how many times it's spoken (or not). Regardless of it's remembered or forgotten, obeyed or ignored. In any case, the comparison between homosexuality and Levitical / Deteurnomical laws is understable, but greatly mistaken. There are important distinctions here that need to be taken into consideration, and to not do so is to go about reading the bible the wrong way.

amazzin
Jan 29th 2011, 04:29 PM
post 2, 8, 9...and apparently I am not the only one that sees them that way either.

That's interesting MG. Lets look at the OP. See bolded


Can someone answer these questions for me?

1) How many individual and unique times does the bible say homosexuality is a sin or wrong.

2) Who (which bible guy, like John, Matthew, etc.) said this.

3) How many unique guys said it.

Thanks.

My response was. "God said it. Period"

Are you going to tell me the Bible is not God's Word? Are you going to tell me that it is a bunch of dudes who wrote the Bible? Are you denying that God has everything to do with what is written in the Bible since He inspired it?

C'mon girl you're taking the world to an entire new level here.

Homosexuality is wrong because God said it is wrong. Not man, not me, not RK not anyone else. It's God who says its wrong.

This discussion ends now.

Vhayes
Jan 29th 2011, 04:35 PM
Hi kenw - welcome.

First, I hope you had your question answered. Second, to address the two witnesses part - God's word is His word. If and whe He says something, it should be taken seriously. The two witnesses portion was in regard to men. Men make mistakes. Look at it this way - the part about two witnesses was written several thousand years ago. What have we discovered in our "modern" world with all the technology we have at our finger tips? That eye witness accounts are usually wrong. Also, the judicial system of the Israelites was set up that way so no one could accuse another of something and have nothing to prove it.

I hope that makes a bit of sense to you. I feel like I've rambled a bit.
V

Firefighter
Jan 29th 2011, 04:36 PM
Post two diverts the discussion away from homosexual behavior and brings it under the blanket of sexual immorality which is a very effective way of dealing with this issue.

Post eight is just plain truth.

Post nine asks a very valid question. How many times does God have to say it to make it true?



The argument that something has to be said more than once is an odd one. When the Bible speaks of it, it is referring to MEN speaking, not God. How many times did God have to say "Let there be _________." before it came to be during creation?