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4Piilars
Feb 1st 2011, 08:41 PM
Briefly, here's how I read Genesis 1:1 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.1)~5 based on my biblical understanding ....

Genesis 1:1 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.1) is just a preface -The Story of the "Beginning"
Genesis 1:2 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.2) narrates us the condition of the deep (dark -null & void) before the world was.
Genesis 1:3 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.3) documents us the bringing forth of the Light before anything is made; before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.4) the division / separation of Light from darkness - the first work of old.
Genesis 1:5 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.5) The evening & the morning, the first day.

Notice that our first firmament of heaven is made only on the 2nd day (Genesis 1:6 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.6)-8) and the actual making of our world (earth) started only on the 3rd day (Genesis 1:9 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.9)-10) not Genesis 1:1 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.1), am I correct?

Any other thought of the matter is welcome.

God Bless

RabbiKnife
Feb 1st 2011, 08:57 PM
Genesis 1:1-2 describe the condition of the EARTH, being formless and void in the dark, covered in water, with the Spirit of God hovering over it, before God said "enough of this, LIGHTS!"

Fenris
Feb 1st 2011, 08:59 PM
Was it really...God? Or some being with a super-secret name?

RabbiKnife
Feb 1st 2011, 09:01 PM
Was it really...God? Or some being with a super-secret name?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

4Piilars
Feb 1st 2011, 09:08 PM
Was it really...God? Or some being with a super-secret name?

Why are you trying to trash my post? Are you affraid that I might expose the looniness of your Jewish doctrinal faith? You're off the topic.

RabbiKnife
Feb 1st 2011, 09:10 PM
Why are you trying to trash my post? Are you affraid that I might expose the looniness of your Jewish doctrinal faith? You're off the topic.

I think he's pointing out the inconsistency between your other thread and this one.

Scruffy Kid
Feb 1st 2011, 09:17 PM
Dear 4Piilars,
Thanks for your previous replies; but I'm rather bothered by this last one (#5 on this thread):


Why are you trying to trash my post? Are you affraid that I might expose the looniness of your Jewish doctrinal faith? You're off the topic.I understand that people on your threads may be cracking jokes in ways that could seem upsetting. (However, you've done a bit to generate that response, by sometimes seeming to speak as if you know it all and we're all benighted ignoramuses.) I'm sorry about that.

However, though I sympathize with your frustration in this situation (though not with your theology), I think it is inappropriate to make remarks like that. It comes close to being a personal attack, and close to being a hostile-to-Jews remark, and neither is particularly acceptable. The board is strongly and unashamedly Christian, but Fenris, who is Jewish, is a friend of us all -- we try to convert him, and he knows that -- and no one here is really open to your making remarks like that, which are rude toward him on account of his faith.

I'm not complaining, here, or putting you down: I myself make unwise comments when I get frustated, which happens quite a lot. Still, I think you might wish to reconsider whether the way you just expressed yourself to Fenris really represents you and your views in the way you'd like them to appear to others, or the way you really want to be. You can go back and edit your post ...

In friendship,
SK

Fenris
Feb 1st 2011, 09:19 PM
-- we try to convert him, and he knows that --

Wait, you are? :hmm:

That explains a lot. :idea:

RabbiKnife
Feb 1st 2011, 09:22 PM
See, now they let the secret out of the bag!!!!!!!

OK, what's Plan "B"?

Fenris
Feb 1st 2011, 09:24 PM
See, now they let the secret out of the bag!!!!!!!

OK, what's Plan "B"?

Dunno, convince me of the general looniness of my Jewish doctrinal faith?

RabbiKnife
Feb 1st 2011, 09:27 PM
Dunno, convince me of the general looniness of my Jewish doctrinal faith?

Look, we got Christian loons, you got Joooooo loons. Let's try to keep each respective loon in its place.

:)

I got "Plan B". Pastrami at Katz'...

4Piilars
Feb 1st 2011, 09:33 PM
There are numerous worlds made during the creation process, but there are several reasons why I believe that the word used in Gen. 1:1 (KJV) specifically.... is Heaven and not Heavens (plural). God first Created (ex-nihilo) the materials or matters needed to form / fashioned our heavens and earth for inhabitation, thereof. In the context of the text, I see the narrative as saying:

In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.

But that's just my humble biblical opinion.

God Bless

Fenris
Feb 1st 2011, 09:40 PM
I got "Plan B". Pastrami at Katz'...
Drop me a line when you're in New York.

RabbiKnife
Feb 1st 2011, 09:45 PM
There are numerous worlds made during the creation process, but there are several reasons why I believe that the word used in Gen. 1:1 (KJV) specifically.... is Heaven and not Heavens (plural). God first Created (ex-nihilo) the materials or matters needed to form / fashioned our heavens and earth for inhabitation, thereof. In the context of the text, I see the narrative as saying:

In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.

But that's just my humble biblical opinion.

God Bless

I find that all to be speculative at best, contrary to the text, and not supported by science, either. I could just as easily speculate that water was created (since it is as least mentioned in the text), and that the atmosphere was created from the hydrogen and oxygen in the water.

Fenris
Feb 1st 2011, 10:00 PM
Anyways the bible isn't to teach us science, which we can figure out on our own.

4Piilars
Feb 1st 2011, 10:08 PM
Jesus is God and was with the Father before the beginning of the Physical World. When God said, Let there be Light (Gen.1:3), Jesus or YHWH, the Son, came forth (begotten) from the Spirit of Love into the Physical World and became the Only God ever Physically formed or that ever will be Physically formed for us to see.

He was Not Created, since He was already God. Jesus or YHWH was the True Light that shineth in heaven on the 1st 3 Days (APHA) of creqation, just as He will be the Light of Heaven in the end (OMEGA), which has No need for the Sun nor Moon to shine in it, ref. Rev. 21

Without Jesus was Not anything made which was made, because Everything Physical (formed / fashioned) was made by the Physical Hands of the Only God, the Only Image, the Only Begotten, of the Invisible Spirit of God.

When we get to Heaven, we will truly understand that the Son is the only One God that we have been dealing with from the very beginning, for In Him dwelleth ALL of the fulness of the Godhead, Bodily (physically).

keck553
Feb 1st 2011, 10:15 PM
Dunno, convince me of the general looniness of my Jewish doctrinal faith?

Oddly enough I believe Genesis 1 and 2 as perfectly accurate in a physcial sense. And as far as I know, I am as goy as any Pole.

RabbiKnife
Feb 1st 2011, 10:17 PM
Sorry, but the light in Genesis 1:3 was the creation of photon energy, unless you believe that the sun and the stars are Jesus.

Jesus is not another name for YHWY, and YHWH is not another name for Jesus.

All of Genesis 1:3 and following is physical creation of STUFF, and all were created or made ex nihilo by God speaking, not by physical hands that did not exist until Mary birthed a baby in the Incarnation.

You speculative theories simply do not comport with Scripture.

keck553
Feb 1st 2011, 10:20 PM
Jesus is God and was with the Father before the beginning of the Physical World. When God said, Let there be Light (Gen.1:3), Jesus or YHWH, the Son, came forth (begotten) from the Spirit of Love into the Physical World and became the Only God ever Physically formed or that ever will be Physically formed for us to see.

I can't "Spirit of Love" in my Bible. Can you tell me where that is?

RabbiKnife
Feb 1st 2011, 10:24 PM
I can't "Spirit of Love" in my Bible. Can you tell me where that is?

Right next to "Jesus or YHWH, the Son," coming forth went God said "LIGHT"!

Fenris
Feb 1st 2011, 10:26 PM
You guys are just so bad :lol:


I know, me too...

percho
Feb 1st 2011, 10:50 PM
Dear 4Piilars,
Thanks for your previous replies; but I'm rather bothered by this last one (#5 on this thread):

I understand that people on your threads may be cracking jokes in ways that could seem upsetting. (However, you've done a bit to generate that response, by sometimes seeming to speak as if you know it all and we're all benighted ignoramuses.) I'm sorry about that.

However, though I sympathize with your frustration in this situation (though not with your theology), I think it is inappropriate to make remarks like that. It comes close to being a personal attack, and close to being a hostile-to-Jews remark, and neither is particularly acceptable. The board is strongly and unashamedly Christian, but Fenris, who is Jewish, is a friend of us all -- we try to convert him, and he knows that -- and no one here is really open to your making remarks like that, which are rude toward him on account of his faith.

I'm not complaining, here, or putting you down: I myself make unwise comments when I get frustated, which happens quite a lot. Still, I think you might wish to reconsider whether the way you just expressed yourself to Fenris really represents you and your views in the way you'd like them to appear to others, or the way you really want to be. You can go back and edit your post ...

In friendship,
SK

They are cracking jokes in the same way you took his statement. He isn't asking anyone to believe anything he has posted. Everything is for consideration. Most people will not consider anything new to them and he knows that. Fenris doesn't really consider our trying to convert him for he is rooted where he is. God does the converting. Something did not happen on the road to Damascus and Paul changed what he believed. God changed what Paul believed.

Sorry for the rant.

4Piilars
Feb 1st 2011, 11:01 PM
Thanks percho...

Obviously, they could not sustain their objection with Scripture, therefore, they just have to trash the tread.... then turn things around and complain about it when confronted.

4Piilars
Feb 1st 2011, 11:07 PM
Gen. 1:6-8 shows that the Firmament or Heaven, as God calls it in Gen. 1:8 was formed on the 2nd Day.

The narrative of Gen. 1:1-2 is speaking of the period BEFORE the 1st Day.

Jesus speaks of thof the following in the Garden of Gethsemane:

And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self with the Glory which I had with Thee BEFORE the world was." John 17:5

Glory is Brightness, a Physical trait. Jesus is speaking of His Physical Brightness which He shared with the Father, Before the world was. Before the world was can only be the 1st Day, since the first World was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8.

This is a physical manifestation (brightness of the Glory of the Lord) which shows that YHWH or Jesus, the Son, came forth into this physical world from the invisible realm of the Godhead -- when God said, Let there be Light Gen.1:3.

Scripture also documents us that there could not have been anything Made that was Made (formed) before Jesus - the True Light that shinneth in heaven in the beginning.

If one believes that In the beginning God created our Heaven BEFORE the 1st Day, then the Words of Jesus would seem to be in error. But if one believes that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was formed on the 2nd Day, then it would agree with Jesus, and would show that Jesus came into the World Before the 1st Heaven was formed.

God Bless

Firstfruits
Feb 3rd 2011, 09:56 AM
Briefly, here's how I read Genesis 1:1 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.1)~5 based on my biblical understanding ....

Genesis 1:1 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.1) is just a preface -The Story of the "Beginning"
Genesis 1:2 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.2) narrates us the condition of the deep (dark -null & void) before the world was.
Genesis 1:3 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.3) documents us the bringing forth of the Light before anything is made; before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.4) the division / separation of Light from darkness - the first work of old.
Genesis 1:5 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.5) The evening & the morning, the first day.

Notice that our first firmament of heaven is made only on the 2nd day (Genesis 1:6 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.6)-8) and the actual making of our world (earth) started only on the 3rd day (Genesis 1:9 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.9)-10) not Genesis 1:1 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.1), am I correct?

Any other thought of the matter is welcome.

God Bless

According to Genesis chapter one what was the last thing that God made and on what day, since God did not start to do anything until the 3rd day?

Firstfruits

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 12:33 PM
God created the heavens (the universe) somewhere around 13.7 billion years ago. He created our sun and earth somewhere around 5 billion years ago. When the earth cooled, He began to bring life to the waters. From there, creeping things begin to inhabit the land. After hundreds of millions of years human beings came into being from the dust which preceded. God took one of these early brutes (dust) and breathed into him the Breath (Spirit) of life, the first Pentecost, and man became a living being in God's image. At that point, man became a creator like his own Creator. Man began to make things.

Somewhere around 8,000 - 10,000 BC, men were suddenly farming, domesticating animals ("Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. Genesis 4:2), building cities (Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. Genesis 4:17), working in metallurgy, fashioning musical instruments (Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes. Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron. Genesis 4:20-22). ....all the result of the image of God now upon men. Anthropologists call this sudden revolution in the human species The Neolithic Revolution. Almost out of nowhere these technological jumps appear on the human timeline. What explains such a revolution in the human species? Easy, "the Spirit of God fell upon the creature which God had been developing since the foundations of the Universe!

Many of us have this silly notion that Adam's creation was nothing more than God smashing some mud together and blowing on it. Then Presto-Changeo, dirt becomes a man. This is really a children's Sunday School explanation of things. "Dust of the earth" can mean simply, "from the earth." You and I are made from dust, as scripture elsewhere states. This doesn't mean that we were once a lump of clay. It simply means our origin, the material that makes up our physical bodies, is from the earth. But we also have something else to us. This earthy creature (man), also has the divine imprint upon him. The Spirit of the Lord has come upon us, transforming brute into son of God. Adam was called "son of God." (Luke 3:38)

Pretty simple if you ask me.

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 01:31 PM
Folks, let's face it. Genesis was not written with our modern world view in mind. It is a text from the ancient Near East at a time when multiple deities were worshipped and acknowledged. To say that Genesis can be read as a kind of science text book of earth's beginnings is to insert your own 21st century frame of reference upon the text. The argument of the biblical author is not to be understood in terms of creation vs. evolution, but something altogether different.

John Walton puts it in perspective:

“You say the universe was created over millions and billions of years; I say it was created in just six days.” That would be a a gross overreading of the text which flies in the face of everything we know about the ancient Near Eastern context in which Gen 1 was written. Instead, the text implies something like this: “You say the universe, and humankind’s place in it, is the result of a struggle between immoral and amoral deities the end-result of which is not favorable to humankind at all; I say that a single all-powerful God created a universe that is good and reflects well on its Creator, who made it as a habitat for humankind, the object of his blessing.”

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 01:58 PM
Somewhere around 8,000 - 10,000 BC, men were suddenly farming, domesticating animals ("Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. Genesis 4:2), building cities (Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. Genesis 4:17), working in metallurgy, fashioning musical instruments (Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes. Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron. Genesis 4:20-22). ....
These people didn't live 8-10,000 BC. If you add up the geneologies in Genesis, it comes out to about 3900 BC.

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 02:10 PM
4P believes and has posted that current man came from another planet with Noah in the ark that was raptured to the earth.

Go figure.

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 02:16 PM
These people didn't live 8-10,000 BC. If you add up the geneologies in Genesis, it comes out to about 3900 BC.

Only if the genealogies are complete, which is unlikely. Otherwise Noah and Abraham would have been contemporaries.
Just to illustrate further, when would you date the Flood?

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 02:31 PM
Only if the genealogies are complete, which is unlikely. Why is that unlikely?


Otherwise Noah and Abraham would have been contemporaries.I don't know if that's true. But what if it was?


Just to illustrate further, when would you date the Flood?Adding up the years in the bible makes the date of 1656 after creation or so

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 02:52 PM
Why is that unlikely?

Ancients used genealogies to show connections, but not all the connections. Just look at the genealogies in Matthew and Luke and do some tracing. You will find certain individuals omitted, demonstrating incomplete continuity.


Adding up the years in the bible makes the date of 1656 after creation or so

Ok, and that would place the Flood at what date with reference to our 2011? I'm not asking an exact date, just a general estimate.

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 02:56 PM
Ancients used genealogies to show connections, but not all the connections. Just look at the genealogies in Matthew and Luke and do some tracing. You will find certain individuals omitted, demonstrating incomplete continuity. So your "proof" is that because you believe that Matthew omits people, Moses omitted them also? I find this rather weak. Matthew lived 1300 years after Moses did; can we link our practices in literature to those of people 1300 years ago? I think not.

And then that opens a whole Pandora's box whereby any date you choose can be found, simply by saying "Well, that's the number of years the bible omitted".




Ok, and that would place the Flood at what date? I'm not asking an exact date, just a general estimate.
Dunno, about 2100 BC or so?

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:02 PM
So your "proof" is that because you believe that Matthew omits people, Moses omitted them also? I find this rather weak. Matthew lived 1300 years after Moses did; can we link our practices in literature to those of people 1300 years ago? I think not.

No, my proof is archeological. Noah's story is pre-history, given everyone was wiped off the face of the earth. If such a universal wipe out occurred, we should be able to see it in the archeological record. If Abraham is a contemporary of Noah, then we should be able to pinpoint the date of the Flood.


Dunno, about 2100 BC or so?

Not possible. Too much evidence of civilization upon the earth at that time, and long before that time.

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:07 PM
No, my proof is archeological. So your point is that the bible dates can't be correct, because it's contradicted by archeology. Of course, digging in the dirt has also produced dinosaur bones and prehistoric creatures that are not quite human. Where to go, where to go?




Not possible. Too much evidence of civilization upon the earth at that time, and long before that time.Whuch doesn't mean that they weren't wiped out, either.

What I find interesting is that the biblical record gives us a date of creation about 6000 years ago. Interestingly enough, that's just about exactly when written history begins. FWIW.

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:18 PM
So your point is that the bible dates can't be correct, because it's contradicted by archeology. Of course, digging in the dirt has also produced dinosaur bones and prehistoric creatures that are not quite human. Where to go, where to go?

I'm talking archeology not paleontology. Archeology is not dinosaur bones, but potsherds, walls, instruments....ie., man made artifacts.



What I find interesting is that the biblical record gives us a date of creation about 6000 years ago. Interestingly enough, that's just about exactly when written history begins. FWIW.

That's fine, but where do we place a world wide Flood between that date and our own? Did you know that the city of Jericho it the oldest extant city, and current dating dates it to 9,000 BC? Yet, no signs of any water problems at Jericho!

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:21 PM
I'm talking archeology not paleontology. Archeology is not dinosaur bones, but potsherds, walls, instruments....ie., man made artifacts.What's the difference? All in the dirt.





That's fine, but where do we place a world wide Flood between that date and our own? Did you know that the city of Jericho it the oldest extant city, and current dating dates it to 9,000 BC? Yet, no signs of any water problems at Jericho!
We don't know that the city was always inhabited; we do know for a fact it's been looted many times; what would "water damage" look like anyway?

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:26 PM
What's the difference? All in the dirt.

Archeology is the study of man-made remains....human culture.

Paleontology is about natural remains....specifically prehistoric remains of animals and plant life.



We don't know that the city was always inhabited; we do know for a fact it's been looted many times; what would "water damage" look like anyway?

But we do know that the city can be dated to ~ 9,000 BC. In all the strata we have of the city, there is no indication of water problems....ie., large silt deposit from a local flood, much less universal Flood.

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:29 PM
Archeology is the study of man-made remains....human culture.

Paleontology is about natural remains....specifically prehistoric remains of animals and plant life.So if you dig something up and it's human remains, the date is important. If you dig something up and it's dinosaur remains, the date is not important.

That your contention?





But we do know that the city can be dated to ~ 9,000 BC. In all the strata we have of the city, there is no indication of water problems....ie., large silt deposit from a local flood, much less universal Flood.

Given how many times the city has been looted and rebuilt, I do not find this point to be persuasive.

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:35 PM
So if you dig something up and it's human remains, the date is important. If you dig something up and it's dinosaur remains, the date is not important. That your contention?

Not at all. Just stating that the two fields of study are independent. One is looking for human remains, the other for natural history remains. And we're also talking a difference in time. Paleontology is looking at things that predate modern man.



Given how many times the city has been looted and rebuilt, I do not find this point to be persuasive.

Looters don't generally sweep up silt deposits that have been laid down. If the city had been wiped out by a Flood, we would see it. We know the city suffered fire damage throughout it's history, and earthquakes. Looting doesn't erase such marks from natural disasters, even human disasters.

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:37 PM
Not at all. Just stating that the two fields of study are independent. One is looking for human remains, the other for natural history remains.And the fact that one appears to be much older than the other...no red flags?


And we're also talking a difference in time. Paleontology is looking at things that predate modern man.So that fact that it's even older is ok?



Looters don't generally sweep up silt deposits that have been laid down. If the city had been wiped out by a Flood, we would see it. We know the city suffered fire damage throughout it's history, and earthquakes. Looting doesn't erase such marks from natural disasters, even human disasters.
For a long time the city was "known" to not be inhabited when Joshua led the Jews into Israel. Until, of course, pottery was found from that date.

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:43 PM
Fenris, I'm not sure what your gripe is about archeology vs. paleontology. There is nothing at stake for me here, so I'm not sure what you're arguing.

There is no evidence that Jericho was ever inundated by water. That there were times when the city was uninhabited is no argument. If there was an overwhelming Flood, the city would have been destroyed, utterly buried, and lost. Yet we have evidence of a long history going back 11,000 years with no water damage. So, if a universal Flood actually happened, it must therefore predate Jericho.

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:45 PM
Not sure what your gripe is about archeology vs. paleontology. There is nothing at stake for me here, so I'm not sure what you're arguing.So dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago until wiped out be a meteorite hit?

What is "trustworthy" when we pull it out of the ground and what isn't?


There is no evidence that Jericho was ever inundated by water. That there were times when the city was uninhabited is no argument. If there was an overwhelming Flood, the city would either have been destroyed, utterly buried, and lost.

Why?

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:50 PM
Why?

Because we have plenty of cities from the ancient Near East that show such water damage. Take a look at the history of Egypt, for example. Many times throughout its history, the Nile has had extreme overflow. We can see such water damage in the archeological strata. And this is from only the Nile floods. No evidence of local flooding can be seen in Jericho's history. And we're not even talking universal Flood here, but simply local flooding. Jericho shows no damage of flooding. Zip, Zero, Nada!

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:56 PM
Because we have plenty of cities from the ancient Near East that show such water damage. Take a look at the history of Egypt, for example. Many times throughout its history, the Nile has had extreme overflow. We can see such water damage in the archeological strata. And this is from only the Nile floods. No evidence of local flooding can be seen in Jericho's history. And we're not even talking universal Flood here, but simply local flooding. Jericho shows no damage of flooding. Zip, Zero, Nada!

Possibly it wasn't inhabited at the time? Possibly it was rebuilt and the flood strata removed? Possibly floods can occur and not leave evidence? Possibly the evidence was present but missed? Possibly...

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 03:56 PM
Assumes that Jericho existed at the time of the Noahic Flood.

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 04:18 PM
Possibly it wasn't inhabited at the time? Possibly it was rebuilt and the flood strata removed? Possibly floods can occur and not leave evidence? Possibly the evidence was present but missed? Possibly...

Yes, and it's also possible flying pink elephants swooped down from heaven with brooms and dust pans and cleaned up Jericho so that no evidence remained of the Flood. But what's the point of that?

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 04:19 PM
Assumes that Jericho existed at the time of the Noahic Flood.

Well that's what I'm trying to figure out! When was the Flood of Noah?

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 04:29 PM
We have no way of knowing other than speculation.

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 04:47 PM
We have no way of knowing other than speculation.

True, but we do know that such an event cannot have happened within a certain time period in history. 2,300 BC cannot possibly be a time when all the world was flooded.

PneumaPsucheSoma
Feb 3rd 2011, 04:58 PM
Personally, I have no problem with a more protracted timeline of modern history from Noah or Adam to the present. The "Galactic Gopherwood" thing is Theistic Scientology-esque, though.

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 05:43 PM
Yes, and it's also possible flying pink elephants swooped down from heaven with brooms and dust pans and cleaned up Jericho so that no evidence remained of the Flood. But what's the point of that?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 05:56 PM
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

LOL...that's funny, given I've presented evidence, but you continue to discount it with "it's possible that...."

Yes, anything is possible, but if you don't have evidence to counter what I've presented, why pretend the high ground?

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:01 PM
LOL...that's funny, given I've presented evidence
No, not really. Your evidence is "I don't see evidence of a flood" which is actually an absence of evidence. Which is why I used the line I did.

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:07 PM
why pretend the high ground?


Just thought that was an ironic word choice.

:D

4Piilars
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:08 PM
Dear Unbelievers, :rofl:

The 1st Firmament or Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 It was formed in the midst or middle of the Water, and Water was above and below it. IOW, the 1st Heaven or world, was surrounded by water (Adam's world). It was later destroyed, totally and completely, by that same Water, when the "windows of heaven were opened. Gen. 7:11

Our Heaven or Universe was made on the 3rd Day (surrounded by star dust) Gen 2:4-5. The Big Bang happened on the 3rd Day, the same Day Jesus made our Heaven or Kosmos, and also the 3rd Heaven. ll Corinthians 12:2 tells us of the Apostle Paul being taken to the 3rd Heaven.

Was Paul a Spaceship? Of course not. Neither was the Ark a Scaceship nor Noah a Spaceman. They were brought to this Planet, the same way, Paul, the Apostle, was taken to the 3rd Heaven. All Christians will be taken to the 3rd Heaven, at the Rapture. Would you call them a fleet of Spaceships?

:o

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:09 PM
Have you taken your meds today?

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:11 PM
No, not really. Your evidence is "I don't see evidence of a flood" which is actually an absence of evidence. Which is why I used the line I did.

LOL!!! If I were to say that God destroyed the earth with an asteroid last week, killing every human being, but then miraculously restored everything without leaving any evidence of the event, would the absence of evidence not mean anything to you? Or would you tell me, "Just because there is no evidence of an asteroid wipe-out, doesn't mean it didn't occur?"

Who really has an absence of evidence here?

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:13 PM
LOL!!! If I were to say
If you were to say? Are you placing your words on par with what's in the bible?

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:14 PM
If you were to say? Are you placing your words on par with what's in the bible?

LOL!!! It's like I'm talking to....I don't know what! LOL!!!!

4Piilars
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:27 PM
LOL!!! If I were to say that God destroyed the earth with an asteroid last week, killing every human being, but then miraculously restored everything without leaving any evidence of the event, would the absence of evidence not mean anything to you? Or would you tell me, "Just because there is no evidence of an asteroid wipe-out, doesn't mean it didn't occur?"

Who really has an absence of evidence here?

Sorry but the great flood did not happen on this planet. It happened beyond our Kosmos. That's why there is no evidence to find except... if you discover the remnants of the Ark - Gopher Wood .... Does anybody here knows what a gopher wood is? I don't think so.


Dear Unbelievers, :rofl:

The 1st Firmament or Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 It was formed in the midst or middle of the Water, and Water was above and below it. IOW, the 1st Heaven or world, was surrounded by water (Adam's world). It was later destroyed, totally and completely, by that same Water, when the "windows of heaven were opened. Gen. 7:11

Our Heaven or Universe was made on the 3rd Day (surrounded by star dust) Gen 2:4-5. The Big Bang happened on the 3rd Day, the same Day Jesus made our Heaven or Kosmos, and also the 3rd Heaven. ll Corinthians 12:2 tells us of the Apostle Paul being taken to the 3rd Heaven.

Was Paul a Spaceship? Of course not. Neither was the Ark a Scaceship nor Noah a Spaceman. They were brought to this Planet, the same way, Paul, the Apostle, was taken to the 3rd Heaven. All Christians will be taken to the 3rd Heaven, at the Rapture. Would you call them a fleet of Spaceships?

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:29 PM
Sorry but the great flood did not happen on this planet. It happened beyond our Kosmos. That's why there ise no evidence to find except... if you discover the remnants of the Ark - Gopher wood.

You are traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land of imagination. Next stop, the Twilight Zone!

Liquid Tension
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:30 PM
Have you taken your meds today?

:rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:

I should sig this too!

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:35 PM
It happened beyond our Kosmos.
"Kosmos" with a "k", huh?

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:37 PM
"Kosmos" with a "k", huh?

I could use a cosmo right now.

4Piilars
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:38 PM
You are traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land of imagination. Next stop, the Twilight Zone!

If you cannot understand that the Rapture is physically leaving the present world, and going to another world, then you will just have to remain ignorant of how Noah left the world of Adam,and came to this present, lost and dying world. I am sorry that you cannot understand such a simple concept.

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:42 PM
I could use a cosmo right now.

Coming right up!

http://www.seinfeldonline.com/kramer2.jpg

4Piilars
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:44 PM
Dear Unbelievers,

As you know, IF this Planet were covered with water, above Everest, the water would still be here. A fig tree could not have germinated, grown, and put forth leaves within the week Scripture requires. Gen 8:10

God tells Noah, in Gen 13:6 that He will DESTROY the evil people, WITH THE EARTH. After Noah arrives, God tells him that He will Not DESTROY the earth in a Flood, in Gen 9:11. The point being that the first Earth was DESTROYED, and when God "Destroys" something, it is Destroyed.

ll Peter 3:5-7 tells us of the Scoffers of the last days:

"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-Destroyed, totally and completely)

John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. v2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

There are examples of these Willingly Ignorant Scoffers, of the last days, almost every day, on these boards.

:rofl:

WSGAC
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:46 PM
If you cannot understand that the Rapture is physically leaving the present world, and going to another world, then you will just have to remain ignorant of how Noah left the world of Adam,and came to this present, lost and dying world. I am sorry that you cannot understand such a simple concept.

But you're just makin' up stuff

Liquid Tension
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:46 PM
If you cannot understand that the Rapture is physically leaving the present world, and going to another world, then you will just have to remain ignorant of how Noah left the world of Adam,and came to this present, lost and dying world. I am sorry that you cannot understand such a simple concept.


This statement ^^^ begs the question below to be asked again......


Have you taken your meds today?

PneumaPsucheSoma
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:47 PM
If you cannot understand that the Rapture is physically leaving the present world, and going to another world, then you will just have to remain ignorant of how Noah left the world of Adam,and came to this present, lost and dying world. I am sorry that you cannot understand such a simple concept.

Understanding it isn't the issue.

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:49 PM
I'm prophesizing a certain new member ending up in "time out".

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:55 PM
You (SpaceMan Biff) are indeed a loon.

And I think you meant Gen 6:13, not 13:6.

The flood that Peter is talking about is the flood that destroyed the planet pre-Genesis 1, when we see the the earth being formless and void, with the spirit of God hovering over the face of the deep, before God re-created starting with "LIGHT BE".
Peter is not talking about Noah's Flood.

Your timing on the receeding of the flood is all wrong, too. Water receeded from the time the rain stopped and the fountains of the deep were closed for 5 months, at which time the Ark struck ground. 2 and 1/2 months later, Noah could see the tops of mountains. A month and 1/2 later, he sent out the raven. A week later, he sent out the dove and got an olive leaf, not a fig.

Scripture is clear that the water receeded for months, not just 7 days as you theorize.

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 06:59 PM
Coming right up!

http://www.seinfeldonline.com/kramer2.jpg

That wasn't the one I was thinking of, but might be appropriate for this thread.

4Piilars
Feb 3rd 2011, 07:19 PM
You (SpaceMan Biff) are indeed a loon.

And I think you meant Gen 6:13, not 13:6.

The flood that Peter is talking about is the flood that destroyed the planet pre-Genesis 1, when we see the the earth being formless and void, with the spirit of God hovering over the face of the deep, before God re-created starting with "LIGHT BE".
Peter is not talking about Noah's Flood.

Your timing on the receeding of the flood is all wrong, too. Water receeded from the time the rain stopped and the fountains of the deep were closed for 5 months, at which time the Ark struck ground. 2 and 1/2 months later, Noah could see the tops of mountains. A month and 1/2 later, he sent out the raven. A week later, he sent out the dove and got an olive leaf, not a fig.

Scripture is clear that the water receeded for months, not just 7 days as you theorize.

Dear Readers,

Our limited life on this planet is but a small measure of our Eternal life in Heaven. God "Creates" only 3 times in Gen 1.

The first time He "creates" is when He speaks and the air, dust, and water are formed. Air, dust, and water were made in the beginning, and will be in Heaven, eternally. Everything God "creates" is for Eternity.

The 2nd time God "creates" in Gen 1, is when every living creature that moveth, was created from the water, on the 5th Day. Genesis 1:21 Does this mean that "every living creature that moveth" is created Eternally?

The 3rd and final time God "creates" in Gen 1 is when mankind is Created in God's Image, or in Christ, for this is man's Spiritual Creation. Man's Spiritual Creation is for Eternity. We will live forever with Jesus, in Heaven.

Since God is the SAME, yesterday, today, and forever, when God "creates", it is an Eternal Creation. God doesn't make mistakes. God's Perfect World is Eternal, His innocent creatures from the water are Eternal, and regenerated mankind is Eternal.

That's why I don't believe in "Gap Theory" - which suggest that God needed to "repair" or "re-create" the earth that was allegedly destroyed between Gen. 1:1~2 specifically, as the result of Satan' spiritual rebellion with God.

It just doesn't make sense and definitely not supported by the Scripture that I know of. God creates new heavens and new earth -- not repair them whenever he destroys them.

Next please.... :rofl:

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 07:23 PM
Said the man with the magic ark.

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 07:24 PM
Yeah this place has been decidedly...odd...lately.

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 07:26 PM
Don't worry, Fenris. When the spaceship comes, we're taking you with us.

(We'll need someone to blame if the motor breaks.)

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 07:33 PM
Don't worry, Fenris. When the spaceship comes, we're taking you with us.Oh thanks, you guys are so niiiice! :hug:


(We'll need someone to blame if the motor breaks.):mad:

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 07:36 PM
Oh thanks, you guys are so niiiice! :hug:
:mad:

Give me a break...Hasn't most of Christianity always needed a resident scapegoat, and I mean, you guys (Jooooos) have so much experience in that field...

:D


:hug:

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 07:40 PM
Give me a break...Hasn't most of Christianity always needed a resident scapegoat,
So I'm not coming along for my sunny disposition? My scintillating wit? My religious insights? My loony beliefs? Just the scapegoat? :mad:



Will there be...bacon? :hmm:

Firstfruits
Feb 3rd 2011, 07:48 PM
Dear Unbelievers,

As you know, IF this Planet were covered with water, above Everest, the water would still be here. A fig tree could not have germinated, grown, and put forth leaves within the week Scripture requires. Gen 8:10

God tells Noah, in Gen 13:6 that He will DESTROY the evil people, WITH THE EARTH. After Noah arrives, God tells him that He will Not DESTROY the earth in a Flood, in Gen 9:11. The point being that the first Earth was DESTROYED, and when God "Destroys" something, it is Destroyed.

ll Peter 3:5-7 tells us of the Scoffers of the last days:

"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-Destroyed, totally and completely)

John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. v2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

There are examples of these Willingly Ignorant Scoffers, of the last days, almost every day, on these boards.

:rofl:

Does that mean that you do not believe these scriptures?

2 Pet 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly

2 Pet 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2 Pet 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2 Pet 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Firstfruits

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 07:50 PM
So I'm not coming along for my sunny disposition? My scintillating wit? My religious insights? My loony beliefs? Just the scapegoat? :mad:



Will there be...bacon? :hmm:

All of the above, all of the above....and don't worry.... The scapegoat is only there to be sent into the desert to bear the sins of the people...

And, oh yes, my friend. There will be bacon on the spaceship. Kosher pork bacon. After all, it is a magic spaceship.

:)

Fenris
Feb 3rd 2011, 07:55 PM
And, oh yes, my friend. There will be bacon on the spaceship. Kosher pork bacon. After all, it is a magic spaceship.
:pp


So nu, where is it already?

RabbiKnife
Feb 3rd 2011, 07:57 PM
Dunno.

SpaceMan Biff hasn't said.

4Piilars
Feb 4th 2011, 01:04 PM
Briefly, here's how I read Genesis 1:1 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.1)~5 based on my biblical understanding ....

Genesis 1:1 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.1) is just a preface -The Story of the "Beginning"
Genesis 1:2 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.2) narrates us the condition of the deep (dark & void) before the world was.
Genesis 1:3 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.3) documents us the bringing forth of the Light before anything is made; before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.4) the division / separation of Light from darkness - the first work of old.
Genesis 1:5 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.5) The evening & the morning, the first day.

Notice that our first firmament of heaven is made only on the 2nd day (Genesis 1:6 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.6)-8) and the actual making of our world (earth) started only on the 3rd day (Genesis 1:9 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.9)-10) not Genesis 1:1 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.1), am I correct?



Dear Open Minded Readers,

Here's how you reconcile the Story of the Beginning of our Physical World (Gen. 1:1-5) - in chronological order of the events - (no gap theory here) based strictly and as narrated by three (3) different Scriptures (my evidence and witnesses). The passages are self explanatory and in harmony together chonologically.

Note: Insertions are mine for clarity of thought and presentation.

In the beginning was the WORD (Light), and the Word was with God (Father), and the Word was God (Son). John 1:1

The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Proverbs 8:22

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2

The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:2

I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Proverbs 8:23

And God said, LET THERE BE LIGHT: and there was light. Genesis 1:3

Note: The 1st "WORD" spoken by God in the Scripture. As you can see by now... the True Light (John 1:9) was brought forth into this physical world from the invisible realm of the Father - before anything is made that was made. The brightness of the Glory of the Son was the True Light that shineth in heaven in the beginning (Alpha) ref. Gen. 1:3 as he will also be the True Light in the end (Omega), ref. Rev. 21.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Proverbs 8:24

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4

In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:4

Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Proverbs 8:25

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5

Based on the above reconciliation of the Scriptures, the heaven and the earth were still void (empty) at the end of the first day - ref. Genesis 1:1-5. And the first formation of heaven took place only on the 2nd day Gen. 1:6-8 not on the 1st day (Gen. 1:1).... and our Earth was formed on the 3rd day.

Note: Gen. 1:2 "And the earth was without form and void..." – not because of the result of Satan’s rebellion but because it was the actual condition of the deep before the physical making of our heavens and earth.

With the above consideration in mind, you should be able to see and appreciate the beauty of how the "Word" (the Son) came about into our physical world from the invisible realm (spiritual) of the Father before the world was.... in the beginning.

BELIEVE OT OR NOT

God Bless

Firstfruits
Feb 4th 2011, 02:40 PM
4Piilars,

Do you, or do you not, believe the following?

2 Pet 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly

2 Pet 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2 Pet 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2 Pet 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Firstfruits

4Piilars
Feb 4th 2011, 03:27 PM
4Piilars,

Do you, or do you not, believe the following?

2 Pet 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly

2 Pet 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2 Pet 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: EDIT: (Greek - completely destroyed; gone forever)

2 Pet 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Firstfruits

Dear Open Minded Readers,

Of course, I do believe in the text.... but not based on their flawed religious understanding of it.

As you can see (see edition in red colors above) the 1st world was not spared at all but competely destroyed instead by the same flood. However, Noah and his family (8 souls) together with those animals inside the Ark were saved.

Also notice... my dear open minded readers... the above cited text, 2 Peter 3:7.... documents us that our present earth also mentioned another heavens which are now.

The question is .... IF the great flood happened on this present planet earth (global flood) as others would like you to believe, then, why did it necessitated another heavens which are now???

The answer is very simple, the great flood happened on another world... beyond our galaxy. Noah and his Ark were raptured to this "Planet of Apes".... in a blink of an eye- from one world to to this present earth.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


God Bless

Firstfruits
Feb 4th 2011, 03:42 PM
Dear Open Minded Readers,

Of course, I do believe in the text.... but not based on their flawed religious understanding of it.

As you can see (see edition in red colors above) the 1st world was not spared at all but competely destroyed instead by the same flood. However, Noah and his family (8 souls) together with those animals inside the Ark were saved.

Also notice... my dear open minded readers... the above cited text, 2 Peter 3:7.... documents us that our present earth also mentioned another heavens which are now.

The question is .... IF the great flood happened on this present planet earth (global flood) as others would like you to believe, then, why did it necessitated another heavens which are now???

The answer is very simple, the great flood happened on another world... beyond our galaxy. Noah and his Ark were raptured to this "Planet of Apes".... in a blink of an eye- from one world to to this present earth.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


God Bless

Whose flawed religious understanding are you speaking about, those that gave us those scriptures or those that believe them?

Firstfruits

WSGAC
Feb 4th 2011, 03:43 PM
Dear Open Minded Readers,

Of course, I do believe in the text.... but not based on their flawed religious understanding of it.

As you can see (see edition in red colors above) the 1st world was not spared at all but competely destroyed instead by the same flood. However, Noah and his family (8 souls) together with those animals inside the Ark were saved.

Also notice... my dear open minded readers... the above cited text, 2 Peter 3:7.... documents us that our present earth also mentioned another heavens which are now.

The question is .... IF the great flood happened on this present planet earth (global flood) as others would like you to believe, then, why did it necessitated another heavens which are now???

The answer is very simple, the great flood happened on another world... beyond our galaxy. Noah and his Ark were raptured to this "Planet of Apes".... in a blink of an eye- from one world to to this present earth.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


God Bless


Let me guess. Noah was from the 12th planet, called Nibiru. Noah was somehow connected with the Anunnaki of that planet.

Sound familiar?

Liquid Tension
Feb 4th 2011, 05:04 PM
A long, long time ago,

In a galaxy far, far away....

4Piilars
Feb 4th 2011, 05:24 PM
Gen. 1:6-8 documents that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was made on the 2nd Day.
Gen. 2:4-5 documents that the 2nd and 3rd Heavens were made on the 3rd Day.
ll Corinthians 12:2 documents that the Apostle Paul was caught up to the 3rd Heaven.

IOW, Scripture documents that there are 3 Heavens or worlds and you seem to say you don't know about another World? Read ll Peter 3:5-7, and explain why God spoke of the world that THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, which Perished. (Greek-Destroyed, Totally)

Tell us the fate of the Heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW, and explain where Christians will be when this happens. We both know that this World will be Burned, and you tell me Scripture does not speak of other Worlds?

Read Revelation 21:1 and deny the complete documentation, Scripturally, of other Worlds.

I do not consider the position articulated, by you, to be Scriptural, and therefore not worthy of rebuttal! Keep your one liner to yourself.

Liquid Tension
Feb 4th 2011, 05:32 PM
I do not consider the position articulated, by you, to be Scriptural, and therefore not worthy of rebuttal! Keep your one liner to yourself.

.....and yours is Scriptural?? Whatever........but please, do keep trying. Gives me my laugh for the day.

PneumaPsucheSoma
Feb 5th 2011, 12:05 AM
Gen. 1:6-8 documents that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was made on the 2nd Day.
Gen. 2:4-5 documents that the 2nd and 3rd Heavens were made on the 3rd Day.
ll Corinthians 12:2 documents that the Apostle Paul was caught up to the 3rd Heaven.

IOW, Scripture documents that there are 3 Heavens or worlds and you seem to say you don't know about another World? Read ll Peter 3:5-7, and explain why God spoke of the world that THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, which Perished. (Greek-Destroyed, Totally)

Tell us the fate of the Heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW, and explain where Christians will be when this happens. We both know that this World will be Burned, and you tell me Scripture does not speak of other Worlds?

Read Revelation 21:1 and deny the complete documentation, Scripturally, of other Worlds.

I do not consider the position articulated, by you, to be Scriptural, and therefore not worthy of rebuttal! Keep your one liner to yourself.

The third heaven is not what you're representing, but nobody can tell you nuthin'. We're not 2Peter scoffers, and you're not the final arbiter of truth. Yours is merely an interpretation. You read it somewhere. I doubt you spent months at a time fasting and praying in the Word to "know" this. Tell me about the stewardship of your life in these areas, please. If you are a fasting-praying-wording "machine", I want to hear more. If not...

dagar
Feb 5th 2011, 02:09 AM
I doubt you spent months at a time fasting and praying in the Word to "know" this. Tell me about the stewardship of your life in these areas, please. If you are a fasting-praying-wording "machine", I want to hear more. If not...This means nothing. I know many that do this and are as deceived as deceived can get.

PneumaPsucheSoma
Feb 5th 2011, 02:42 AM
This means nothing. I know many that do this and are as deceived as deceived can get.

What's your criteria for "deceived"? And obviously you're not, of course. I was deceived about a number of things for years, and am constantly on guard for any remaining in my heart or being presented to me.

The only people who say fasting means nothing have never fasted. (I'm not talking about short fasts.) I don't trust my own unfasted flesh; I sure don't trust anyone else's.

You know many who fast for months at a time in the Word and prayer? I'm amazed. I come from a strong fasting ministry, and it's still not very widespread beyond the core faithful.

What DOES mean something? Making sure someone doesn't spend time in Word, prayer, and fasting?

dagar
Feb 5th 2011, 04:04 AM
What's your criteria for "deceived"? And obviously you're not, of course. I was deceived about a number of things for years, and am constantly on guard for any remaining in my heart or being presented to me.No, I'm not and never have been. Never have fallen for doctrines of men.


The only people who say fasting means nothing have never fasted.I didn't say fasts mean nothing. Re-read son.


I don't trust my own unfasted flesh; I sure don't trust anyone else's.I wouldn't either if I had been deceived about a number of things for years. Probably a very good idea you fast.


You know many who fast for months at a time in the Word and prayer? I'm amazed.Well there ya go. Deceived by your flesh again.


I come from a strong fasting ministry, and it's still not very widespread beyond the core faithful.That seems to be your perception.


What DOES mean something?truth

PneumaPsucheSoma
Feb 5th 2011, 04:34 AM
No, I'm not and never have been. Never have fallen for doctrines of men.

I didn't say fasts mean nothing. Re-read son.

I wouldn't either if I had been deceived about a number of things for years. Probably a very good idea you fast.

Well there ya go. Deceived by your flesh again.

That seems to be your perception.

truth

Wow. Lots of arrogant condescending pretense. Please enlighten us all...

Are you trinitarian?

dagar
Feb 5th 2011, 05:00 AM
Wow. Lots of arrogant condescending pretense. Please enlighten us all...Actually, you are the one from a "strong fasting ministry" in "the core faithful" that has the truth no one else can have unless they, not just fast, but fast long. Have scripture for this? No.....no you don't. Deceived again?


Are you trinitarian?How is this related to the discussion? Did your long fast reveal something the rest of us do not know? I can see from your threads that appears to be what you think.

Do you have anything constructive to contribute on the thread topic or do you just like popping in other peoples threads and making fun of people? Is this 'Christ like behavior' (sarcasm) a result of your long fasting?

PneumaPsucheSoma
Feb 5th 2011, 05:42 AM
Actually, you are the one from a "strong fasting ministry" in "the core faithful" that has the truth no one else can have unless they, not just fast, but fast long. Have scripture for this? No.....no you don't. Deceived again?

How is this related to the discussion? Did your long fast reveal something the rest of us do not know? I can see from your threads that appears to be what you think.

Do you have anything constructive to contribute on the thread topic or do you just like popping in other peoples threads and making fun of people? Is this 'Christ like behavior' (sarcasm) a result of your long fasting?

Nope. It comes from dealing with stuff like this. I'll just bail and let you guys finish enlightening the world with truth.

dagar
Feb 5th 2011, 06:46 AM
Nope. It comes from dealing with stuff like this.Well, I deal with stuff like original sin and answered your post in that thread without making fun of your deception on that topic. Dealing with stuff like this has nothing to do with how you respond.