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Mark F
Feb 6th 2011, 02:29 AM
I was reading through a thread and in some posts the subject of "Did Jesus have to die?" was lightly addressed, I wonder if we have considered why He died and why/how/if His death/shedding of His blood, saves us. I thought not to comment there as to not derail the thread.

There are a couple of Scriptures I would like to post for your consideration and comment.


Romans 3:24
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

(Consider the whole passage in Romans, I only quoted 24 to keep my presentation a bit clearer as the "freely by His grace" is at the heart of it.)


Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

These I hope we all are very familiar with and there are more, but I have a few others to post that I hope will add to the discussion.



Proverbs 17:15
15 He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just,
Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.


Exodus 34:6-7
6 And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, 7 keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.”


Numbers 14:18
18 ‘The LORD is longsuffering and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation.’

So the question then is "How can God forgive us if He says that He will 'by no means clear the guilty' and 'he who justifies the guilty is an abomination'? We know God to be good, and He is just, we also know He is merciful, how can He justify a sinner?

chad
Feb 6th 2011, 03:16 AM
Through the blood of Jesus.

Servant89
Feb 6th 2011, 03:18 AM
I was reading through a thread and in some posts the subject of "Did Jesus have to die?" was lightly addressed, I wonder if we have considered why He died and why/how/if His death/shedding of His blood, saves us. I thought not to comment there as to not derail the thread.

There are a couple of Scriptures I would like to post for your consideration and comment.



(Consider the whole passage in Romans, I only quoted 24 to keep my presentation a bit clearer as the "freely by His grace" is at the heart of it.)



These I hope we all are very familiar with and there are more, but I have a few others to post that I hope will add to the discussion.








So the question then is "How can God forgive us if He says that He will 'by no means clear the guilty' and 'he who justifies the guilty is an abomination'? We know God to be good, and He is just, we also know He is merciful, how can He justify a sinner?

Do you have a point to make?

Help me out.

Shalom

Mark F
Feb 6th 2011, 04:00 AM
Do you have a point to make?

Help me out.

Shalom

How does God just forgive us?

It's like a judge in a court, he is supposed to ensure that justice is served, he cannot just say, I am a loving judge and have mercy on you ....then just let the murderer or robber go free, right?

He would be a wicked judge, how then can God justify us freely by His grace and yet be good?


Proverbs 17:15
15 He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just,
Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

Mark F
Feb 6th 2011, 04:05 AM
Through the blood of Jesus.

Yes indeed, but it's more than that. What about His blood is it that enables God to be merciful to us?

chad
Feb 6th 2011, 06:18 AM
His blood redeems us. His blood represents his sacrifice, which pays for our sin. The blood of animals could not forgive sins, only the blood of Jesus.


Yes indeed, but it's more than that. What about His blood is it that enables God to be merciful to us?

Servant89
Feb 6th 2011, 06:48 PM
We were made on God's image. For example, we have a sense of vengance. But God said:

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

It is up to God to punish those that reject his free gift of salvation on the day of judgment.

There was a thread recently on this subject. God is just. Someone must pay for the crime for justice to prevail. God put the sins of the whole world on Jesus Christ. That is how he forgives us. It is a gift. We deserve hell, but in spite of us, he give us heaven. And Jesus runs with the bill, he picks up the tab. But salvation is for only those that believe that God is so good, that he loves us to death (literally).

The Bible says the wicked have a good time in this world. Read Psalms 37 and 73 and Job 21. That is because there will be no icecream in hell, so everything good they did, they will be rewarded here on earth.

Prov 11:31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.

Mt 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward.

Mt 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward.

Mt 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward.

Shalom

Mark F
Feb 8th 2011, 11:22 PM
We were made on God's image. For example, we have a sense of vengance. But God said:


It is up to God to punish those that reject his free gift of salvation on the day of judgment.

There was a thread recently on this subject. God is just. Someone must pay for the crime for justice to prevail. God put the sins of the whole world on Jesus Christ. That is how he forgives us. It is a gift. We deserve hell, but in spite of us, he give us heaven. And Jesus runs with the bill, he picks up the tab. But salvation is for only those that believe that God is so good, that he loves us to death (literally).

Shalom

I did a search and didn't see it, can you post a link or the thread title?

BTW, good post, I am thinking that many don't fully understand that God put our filth on Christ. I was kinda hoping to get a little more participation, but oh well.

Silent Wings
Feb 9th 2011, 01:35 AM
How does God just forgive us?He doesn’t.


It's like a judge in a court, he is supposed to ensure that justice is served, he cannot just say, I am a loving judge and have mercy on you ....then just let the murderer or robber go free, right?

He would be a wicked judge, how then can God justify us freely by His grace and yet be good?Justice and mercy cancel one another out. Christ is the solution to the problem…He received God’s justice that we may receive God’s mercy.

Isaiah 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Mark F
Feb 9th 2011, 02:15 AM
He doesn’t.

Justice and mercy cancel one another out. Christ is the solution to the problem…He received God’s justice that we may receive God’s mercy.

Isaiah 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

You think justice and mercy cancel each other? I think more like justice is the foundation that mercy is bestowed upon, firstly justice was carried out that mercy could be given out.