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TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 18th 2011, 02:59 AM
The laws of the flesh were given to Moses by God.(covenant between God and the flesh of man).

The laws of the Spirit were given to Jesus by God.(covenant between God and the spirit of man).

The laws of the flesh was the first Testament(you call it the old testament).

The laws of the Spirit is the second testament(Jesus called it the new testament).

The laws of the Spirit fullfiled the laws of the flesh.

The laws of the flesh was ratified by the blood of animals upon an alter.

The laws of the Spirit were ratified by the blood of Jesus upon a cross.

There is no eternal life in the laws of the flesh.

There is eternal ife in the laws of the Spirit.

To abide in the laws of the Spirit you must be born of the Spirit of God.

Those who cannot be born again will reject the laws of the Spirit.

Those who cannot obey the laws of the Spirit cannot be born again.

You can only be born again by the will of God.

If you do not know the laws of the Spirit then it is a good chance you are not born again.

If you do not obey the laws of the Spirit there is a good chance you are not born again.

So by the grace of God I may teach a little upon the Truth of the laws
(or commandments which ever you prefer to call them) of Jesus and

being born again.

(To Be Cont. If By the Grace of God.)

Dani H
Feb 18th 2011, 04:20 AM
What do you mean by "those who cannot be born again"?

Who are "those" and why can't they be born again?

And where are your Scriptures to support such a statement??

And if you're only here to "teach" ... you've come to the wrong place.

Athanasius
Feb 18th 2011, 05:18 AM
More gnostic nonsense.

Diggindeeper
Feb 18th 2011, 05:51 AM
And no scripture..........

Firefighter
Feb 18th 2011, 12:39 PM
Those who cannot obey the laws of the Spirit cannot be born again.

Don't forget salvation by works!!! :B

RabbiKnife
Feb 18th 2011, 02:20 PM
And here I thought FireFighter was the Missing Link(TM).

Firefighter
Feb 18th 2011, 04:17 PM
You would think so if you saw me right now. I haven't shaved since Sunday, I STILL smell like smoke, hunched over, walking with a severe limp, busted lip, scratches on my neck, and groan about every step I take.

markdrums
Feb 18th 2011, 04:23 PM
You would think so if you saw me right now. I haven't shaved since Sunday, I STILL smell like smoke, hunched over, walking with a severe limp, busted lip, scratches on my neck, and groan about every step I take.

And how is that different from any other day?

;) heehee! :P

Firefighter
Feb 18th 2011, 04:56 PM
It's not much different... :lol:

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 18th 2011, 09:05 PM
The laws of the flesh were given to Moses by God.(covenant between God and the flesh of man).

The laws of the Spirit were given to Jesus by God.(covenant between God and the spirit of man).

The laws of the flesh was the first Testament(you call it the old testament).

The laws of the Spirit is the second testament(Jesus called it the new testament).

The laws of the Spirit fullfiled the laws of the flesh.

The laws of the flesh was ratified by the blood of animals upon an alter.

The laws of the Spirit were ratified by the blood of Jesus upon a cross.

There is no eternal life in the laws of the flesh.

There is eternal ife in the laws of the Spirit.

To abide in the laws of the Spirit you must be born of the Spirit of God.

Those who cannot be born again will reject the laws of the Spirit.

Those who cannot obey the laws of the Spirit cannot be born again.

You can only be born again by the will of God.

If you do not know the laws of the Spirit then it is a good chance you are not born again.

If you do not obey the laws of the Spirit there is a good chance you are not born again.

So by the grace of God I may teach a little upon the Truth of the laws
(or commandments which ever you prefer to call them) of Jesus and

being born again.

(To Be Cont. If By the Grace of God.)

1. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

2. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

3. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

4. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

5. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

6. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

7. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

8. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 18th 2011, 10:15 PM
Can you see what I see? Am I the only one that see's this? Has Satan fooled us all? Not me! How about you?

Firefighter
Feb 18th 2011, 10:27 PM
Is there a destination here, or are we just going to stay on the train forever?

RabbiKnife
Feb 18th 2011, 10:39 PM
Like the poor player who frets and struts his hour upon the stage, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

~~Billy Shakes.

Firefighter
Feb 18th 2011, 10:40 PM
~~Billy Shakes.

Why is poor Billy shaking?

GodsHelp
Feb 18th 2011, 10:44 PM
where did you find this at?

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 18th 2011, 10:46 PM
Is there a destination here, or are we just going to stay on the train forever?

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

You cannot go with me, how far you can ride, is up to God.

markdrums
Feb 18th 2011, 10:52 PM
Is there a destination here, or are we just going to stay on the train forever?

Can I switch seats at least?

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 18th 2011, 11:19 PM
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Those born of the flesh, speak the words of the flesh and those born of the Spirit, speak the words of the Spirit.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 18th 2011, 11:22 PM
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Those that are born of the flesh seek the things of the flesh; and those born of the Spirit seek the things of the Spirit.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 18th 2011, 11:23 PM
Can I switch seats at least?

It will not help you, you will still end up in the same place.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 18th 2011, 11:24 PM
where did you find this at?

I did not find it. It found me.

AndrewBaptistFL
Feb 18th 2011, 11:27 PM
Iím interested to see where this goes. Thank you for the scripture in another post. Just suggestions...integrate referenced scripture (chapter and verse) into the next posts so that we can see your statements in line with what the Bible says. For me, this helps a good deal and saves me much time. :)

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 18th 2011, 11:33 PM
I’m interested to see where this goes. Thank you for the scripture in another post. Just suggestions...integrate referenced scripture (chapter and verse) into the next posts so that we can see your statements in line with what the Bible says. For me, this helps a good deal and saves me much time. :)

What would you have me do if I was to tell you something about God that is not written about in any of the books of the Bible? Or do you want to limit me to just to the things of God that are recorded in the books of the Bible?

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 12:00 AM
What are you going to do when I take verses from the books of the Bible and reveal to you that you are not born again? What will you do?

Athanasius
Feb 19th 2011, 12:30 AM
What would you have me do if I was to tell you something about God that is not written about in any of the books of the Bible? Or do you want to limit me to just to the things of God that are recorded in the books of the Bible?

God limits you, not us.


What are you going to do when I take verses from the books of the Bible and reveal to you that you are not born again? What will you do?

Probably re-iterate 'more gnostic nonsense'.

AndrewBaptistFL
Feb 19th 2011, 12:50 AM
What would you have me do if I was to tell you something about God that is not written about in any of the books of the Bible? Or do you want to limit me to just to the things of God that are recorded in the books of the Bible?

Friend, if you did such a thing as that I would not believe you. All that God wants me (all of us) to know is written plainly for those who seek it in His Word. The Lord did not leave us as orphans and has sent us the Councelor (John 14:16) to “teach and remind us of everything” He has said to us. There is no “secret truth” other than found in the Word of God.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 02:13 AM
Friend, if you did such a thing as that I would not believe you. All that God wants me (all of us) to know is written plainly for those who seek it in His Word. The Lord did not leave us as orphans and has sent us the Councelor (John 14:16) to “teach and remind us of everything” He has said to us. There is no “secret truth” other than found in the Word of God.

Someone with the Spirit of Truth does not say this:

Just suggestions...integrate referenced scripture (chapter and verse) into the next posts so that we can see your statements in line with what the Bible says. For me, this helps a good deal and saves me much time.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 02:14 AM
The Bible is your only guide for you have said so yourself.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 02:15 AM
Those that are born again of the Spirit

are guided by the Spirit.

Those of the flesh are guided by

books and stuff.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 02:16 AM
The Sons of God were long before 1611.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 02:19 AM
Those that are born again of the Spirit

are guided by the Spirit.

Those of the flesh are guided by

books and stuff.

The Sons of God were long before 1611.

They are led and taught by the Spirit of Truth.

Diggindeeper
Feb 19th 2011, 02:20 AM
I take it you are a Calvinist............

Therefore, many can NEVER be born again. To YOUR way of thinking. Many, Calvinists say, can NEVER be saved. But lo and behold, the select few know that HE chose them...and to heck with the rest.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 02:25 AM
I take it you are a Calvinist............

Therefore, many can NEVER be born again. To YOUR way of thinking. Many, Calvinists say, can NEVER be saved. But lo and behold, the select few know that HE chose them...and to heck with the rest.

I am a little disappointed that after you have read what I have posted you would take it that I am a Calvinists.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 02:28 AM
I really do not know what Calvinist believe. I am not taught by the spirit of Calvinist.

Diggindeeper
Feb 19th 2011, 02:40 AM
What do you mean by "those who cannot be born again"?

Who are "those" and why can't they be born again?

And where are your Scriptures to support such a statement??

And if you're only here to "teach" ... you've come to the wrong place.

You sure do teach like a Calvinist. You said in your first post there are "those who cannot be born again"!

I firmly, with everything in me, believe that Christ Jesus shed his blood for ALL...everyone in the whole world. He IDS the light of the world. In Him is no darkness. The only ones who DO NOT accept his gift of eternal life or who DO NO come to the light are the ones who LOVE their darkness better than life.

John 3:16-19
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

They want their darkness more than they want Christ! But, nevertheless, the day CAN come when they DO turn to the LIGHT!

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 02:51 AM
You sure do teach like a Calvinist. You said in your first post there are "those who cannot be born again"!

I firmly, with everything in me, believe that Christ Jesus shed his blood for ALL...everyone in the whole world. He IDS the light of the world. In Him is no darkness. The only ones who DO NOT accept his gift of eternal life or who DO NO come to the light are the ones who LOVE their darkness better than life.

John 3:16-19
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

They want their darkness more than they want Christ! But, nevertheless, the day CAN come when they DO turn to the LIGHT!

Look at my words then look at yours. You can not see the difference can you?

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 02:53 AM
Those of this world cannot be born again.

There are two worlds.

This world and the world to come.

Athanasius
Feb 19th 2011, 02:57 AM
Someone with the Spirit of Truth does not say this:

Just suggestions...integrate referenced scripture (chapter and verse) into the next posts so that we can see your statements in line with what the Bible says. For me, this helps a good deal and saves me much time.

He who is indwelt by God says as andrew has said.


The Bible is your only guide for you have said so yourself.

As it is God's revelation, so we follow. To contradict the Bible is to contradict God. Two truths cannot contradict each other.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 03:10 AM
He who is indwelt by God says as andrew has said.



As it is God's revelation, so we follow. To contradict the Bible is to contradict God. Two truths cannot contradict each other.

Present your proof that proves your words. I can easily disprove them but I will be gracious and allow you to speak first.

Athanasius
Feb 19th 2011, 03:14 AM
Present your proof that proves your words. I can easily disprove them but I will be gracious and allow you to speak first.

No no, go ahead. You made the original claim, so go first.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 03:27 AM
That is my opening statement in this debate.

You cannot prove your words.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 03:42 AM
So if you cannot prove your words. And let us say for the sake of arguement that I cannot prove my words.

How does what you say be right and what I say is wrong.

Please explain that to me.

THIS IS MY NEXT STATEMENT TO YOU IN THIS DEBATE.

Athanasius
Feb 19th 2011, 04:00 AM
That is my opening statement in this debate.

Your opening statement was post #27, so please - if someone with the 'Spirit of Truth' wouldn't say what andrew said, then what would they say? Andrew, of course, is following the example set by the Bereans in Acts 17:11. As they examined the Scriptures to test Paul's word, so too does Andrew examine you.


You cannot prove your words.

God proves my words, not me, not you, not anyone else.


So if you cannot prove your words. And let us say for the sake of argument that I cannot prove my words.

How does what you say be right and what I say is wrong.

Please explain that to me.

THIS IS MY NEXT STATEMENT TO YOU IN THIS DEBATE.

For the sake of truth, let us forget this 'for the sake of argument' business. You've assumed my words cannot be proven, and you've assumed incorrectly.
Your move.

Br. Barnabas
Feb 19th 2011, 01:42 PM
Don't feed the troll!

AndrewBaptistFL
Feb 19th 2011, 05:24 PM
Someone with the Spirit of Truth does not say this:

Just suggestions...integrate referenced scripture (chapter and verse) into the next posts so that we can see your statements in line with what the Bible says. For me, this helps a good deal and saves me much time.

I disagree. :) May God bless you!

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 08:43 PM
Your opening statement was post #27, so please - if someone with the 'Spirit of Truth' wouldn't say what andrew said, then what would they say? Andrew, of course, is following the example set by the Bereans in Acts 17:11. As they examined the Scriptures to test Paul's word, so too does Andrew examine you.



God proves my words, not me, not you, not anyone else.



For the sake of truth, let us forget this 'for the sake of argument' business. You've assumed my words cannot be proven, and you've assumed incorrectly.
Your move.

I will use your own words as my defence.

"God proves my words, not me, not you, not anyone else."

I could go on and disprove you again with my own words. But your own words will do.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 08:45 PM
I disagree. :) May God bless you!

That is not my problem.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 08:47 PM
Don't feed the troll!

Are you trolling this thread?

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 08:51 PM
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Did you say you were born again?

Athanasius
Feb 19th 2011, 09:32 PM
I will use your own words as my defence.

"God proves my words, not me, not you, not anyone else."

I could go on and disprove you again with my own words. But your own words will do.

Oh, don't be so silly! If that's a refutation, then I'm the queen of England. No, I understand I need to be patient with you. You see, I speak words only those indwelt by the Spirit of God will understand. I'll allow you a second attempt.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 09:47 PM
The laws of the flesh were given to Moses by God.(covenant between God and the flesh of man).

The laws of the Spirit were given to Jesus by God.(covenant between God and the spirit of man).

The laws of the flesh was the first Testament(you call it the old testament).

The laws of the Spirit is the second testament(Jesus called it the new testament).

The laws of the Spirit fullfiled the laws of the flesh.

The laws of the flesh was ratified by the blood of animals upon an alter.

The laws of the Spirit were ratified by the blood of Jesus upon a cross.

There is no eternal life in the laws of the flesh.

There is eternal ife in the laws of the Spirit.

To abide in the laws of the Spirit you must be born of the Spirit of God.

Those who cannot be born again will reject the laws of the Spirit.

Those who cannot obey the laws of the Spirit cannot be born again.

You can only be born again by the will of God.

If you do not know the laws of the Spirit then it is a good chance you are not born again.

If you do not obey the laws of the Spirit there is a good chance you are not born again.

So by the grace of God I may teach a little upon the Truth of the laws
(or commandments which ever you prefer to call them) of Jesus and

being born again.

1. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

2. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

3. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

4. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

5. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

6. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

7. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

8. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Those born of the flesh, speak the words of the flesh and those born of the Spirit, speak the words of the Spirit.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Those that are born of the flesh seek the things of the flesh; and those born of the Spirit seek the things of the Spirit.

Those that are born again of the Spirit

are guided by the Spirit.

Those of the flesh are guided by

books and stuff and the flesh of man.

The Sons of God were long before 1611.

They are led and taught by the Spirit of Truth.

Those of this world cannot be born again.

There are two worlds.

This world and the world to come.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 19th 2011, 09:48 PM
Did they tell you that you were born again?

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 20th 2011, 12:54 AM
I had watched this young man preach

on several different occasions.

I could see

he had a great passion

for what he was doing

and

a great concern for those he was

preaching to that day.

I was wondering in my heart what God thought about this young man.

God revealed to me that

This man loved God greatly...

On his own terms.

I thought on this a while

and I said to myself....

ahhhhhhhhhhh

That is how come I see

so many get to a certain

level with God

and

they can go no farther.

They started out loving God on His terms

but some where along the way.

Their love for God became...

On their terms.

God revealed to me that day

that many many people love Him on their own terms.

But only a small few love Him on His terms.

Many Are Called But Few Are Chosen.

Diggindeeper
Feb 20th 2011, 02:43 AM
Did they tell you that you were born again?

TheWingsOfWisdom, why the personal jabs at other believers? You know, when people come here with the attitude that they, alone, have all knowledge, wisdom and understanding above all other believers, it doesn't take long for folks to tire of listening to them. You need to post hereafter in Bible Chat or Aeropagus, because so far, your posts do not fit in Apologetics and definitely not in Evangelism.

Firefighter
Feb 20th 2011, 01:16 PM
Wings,

Please make some kind of coherent thought, an outline, or at least move on with the conversation before this thread gets closed. If all you want to do is tell people they are not saved and that they are nowhere close to being as "enlightened" as you, I can promise you, this thread and your time here will be short lived.

AndrewBaptistFL
Feb 20th 2011, 01:24 PM
I have yet to meet a member of the “spiritually elite” that hadn’t succumb to some sort of worldly, backwards, elitist philosophy.

Vhayes
Feb 20th 2011, 02:41 PM
If God didn't want us to use the bible to have a better understanding of Him, why would He have had it written?

Is the studying of scripture the be-all and end-all of our relationship? Certainly not. But it is a large part of it.

Maybe I'm not understanding the point being made here.

Dani H
Feb 20th 2011, 04:46 PM
What are you going to do when I take verses from the books of the Bible and reveal to you that you are not born again? What will you do?

So are you going to stop trolling and typing mumbo jumbo or are you going to explain things in English instead of stringing partial Bible verses out of context along with you to make no point whatsoever?

Vhayes
Feb 20th 2011, 05:09 PM
My guess - and it IS a guess - is you are trying to tell us:

* That we are spiritual beings and will not be born again until we have our resurrection bodies.
* That the body does not matter
* That if we are in tune enough, God will speak to our spirit and that's all we need - no bible, no pastor/teacher, no church.

If I'm wrong here, please tell me what you ARE saying.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 20th 2011, 10:04 PM
So are you going to stop trolling and typing mumbo jumbo or are you going to explain things in English instead of stringing partial Bible verses out of context along with you to make no point whatsoever?

Let's start here with what you have said to me. Are these words of the flesh or words of the Spirit. What can we find in these words? Can we find life?

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 20th 2011, 10:37 PM
I have read on here where people have said they have received the Holy Ghost. The Truth is they have been told they have received the Holy Ghost.

Do they tell you that you have become Holy?

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 20th 2011, 10:40 PM
I have yet to meet a member of the “spiritually elite” that hadn’t succumb to some sort of worldly, backwards, elitist philosophy.

What philosophy did you succumb to? Which one are you following now?

Vhayes
Feb 20th 2011, 10:43 PM
What are words of the Spirit?

Are THESE words of the spirit?

I John 5
7 - For there are three that testify:
8 - the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
9 - If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son.
10 - The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.
11 - And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 - He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
14 - This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 20th 2011, 10:45 PM
Wings,

Please make some kind of coherent thought, an outline, or at least move on with the conversation before this thread gets closed. If all you want to do is tell people they are not saved and that they are nowhere close to being as "enlightened" as you, I can promise you, this thread and your time here will be short lived.

The Lord giveth the Lord taketh away. The Lord has a tendency to take the blessings away from those who are less worthy and give them to others more worthy, who will do better with them.

Have you read that verse in the Bible?

Firefighter
Feb 20th 2011, 11:50 PM
Make you point, or I am going to close this thread. While I am tickled pink that you have been found more worthy, I have found you to be lacking. This thread WILL BE CLOSED if you don't get off your high horse and piece together some kind of coherent thought. This is your last warning.

Zack702
Feb 21st 2011, 12:49 AM
The Lord giveth the Lord taketh away. The Lord has a tendency to take the blessings away from those who are less worthy and give them to others more worthy, who will do better with them.

Have you read that verse in the Bible?

However does the spirit testify of a flowing spring that is without end ?

TheWingsOfWisdom
Feb 21st 2011, 01:02 AM
However does the spirit testify of a flowing spring that is without end ?

Those of the flesh cannot hear the words of the Spirit.

You can not hear me can you?

Firefighter
Feb 21st 2011, 01:10 AM
I tried to warn you...

Thread Closed

ProjectPeter
Feb 21st 2011, 01:18 AM
And freak show is now over. Goodness... someone forgot to lock up one night! None of you are bornagain... I mean none of you. I can't prove that but you can't prove you are therefore I am said Sam I am. :rolleyes: