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View Full Version : Was BAPTISM only given to Israel ??



dan p
Feb 22nd 2011, 08:28 PM
Hi to all and when looking at the book of Matt 3:1-11 , the CONTEXT John was preaching in the wilderness and saying , Repent ye , for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand .

It looks like the Kingdom of Heaven has to do with the 1000 year reign of Christ ??

Did not the disciples ask jesus in Acts 1: 6 , " wilth thou at this TIME restore the Kingdom to Israel ??

In John1:31 , " And I knew Him not , but that He should be made MANIFEST TO ISRAEL , therefore am I come Baptizing with WATER .

The CONTEXT seem to me to point out that Water Baptism was given to Israel and NOT TO GENTILES

I have not found anywhere the Gentiles are commanded to Baptize ?

What say you ? dan p

David Taylor
Feb 22nd 2011, 08:51 PM
Hi to all and when looking at the book of Matt 3:1-11 , the CONTEXT John was preaching in the wilderness and saying , Repent ye , for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand .

It looks like the Kingdom of Heaven has to do with the 1000 year reign of Christ ??


No it isn't limited in that manner.

The Kingdom of Heaven, is Christ and all of the redeemed of all ages; and the what would come to them and entry into His Kingdom by the power of His death, burial, and resurrection for the salvation of whosoever will.

It has no end.




Did not the disciples ask jesus in Acts 1: 6 , " wilth thou at this TIME restore the Kingdom to Israel ??


Yes, and Jesus told them it would occur with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit to all who repent, as Joel prophesied; which soon happened at Pentecost; reminding the disciples that Christ's Kingdom was within them, not a governmental autocratic regime like in the old times of David and Solomon.




In John1:31 , " And I knew Him not , but that He should be made MANIFEST TO ISRAEL , therefore am I come Baptizing with WATER .

The CONTEXT seem to me to point out that Water Baptism was given to Israel and NOT TO GENTILES

I have not found anywhere the Gentiles are commanded to Baptize ?

What say you ? dan p

No this is all wrong.

All John the Baptist was saying, is that he was baptizing in advance, on the promise of the soon-coming true and complete baptism that Jesus would bring. John, being another of the types and shadows that pointed forward to Christ.

You have to first understand there is no difference in an Israelite and a Gentile in God's eyes now. No different plan. No different dichotomy. No different expectations. Baptism is the symbol of a human being dying to self and their flesh, and being quickened and raised to new life by the Holy Spirit in Christ. It is no different to an Israelite than to an Icelander.

Baptism ultimately is no real difference than Circumcision was...it was/is an outward action symbolizing one's relationship to the Lord.

dan p
Feb 23rd 2011, 12:07 AM
You have to first understand there is no difference in an Israelite and a Gentile in God's eyes now. No different plan. No different dichotomy. No different expectations. Baptism is the symbol of a human being dying to self and their flesh, and being quickened and raised to new life by the Holy Spirit in Christ. It is no different to an Israelite than to an Icelander.

Baptism ultimately is no real difference than Circumcision was...it was/is an outward action symbolizing one's relationship to the Lord.

Hi David Taylor , in the Gospels , we do not see Gentiles promised and thing at all and Eph 2:12 is my proof text ?

Will you comment on the Eph 2:12 verse please ??

You did not post a verse showing where Gentiles were promised Water Baptism ?

dan p

Phish
Feb 23rd 2011, 01:46 AM
Here is a passage where a Gentile was baptized

Act 8:36 And as they went on [their] way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, [here is] water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?


Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

dagar
Feb 23rd 2011, 01:57 AM
Hi to all and when looking at the book of Matt 3:1-11 , the CONTEXT John was preaching in the wilderness and saying , Repent ye , for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand .

It looks like the Kingdom of Heaven has to do with the 1000 year reign of Christ ??It will be that, yes.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

But it is not just that. It's also now. You'll notice so much more of Matthew, compared to the other gospels, has to do with how we treat one another, how man behaves here on earth, and law, which is where God decided to share His spiritual kingdom (of God) with His creation. You'll notice entrance of trib survivors into the 1000 year reign of Christ is works based, depending on how they treated others. You'll also notice the kingdom (earth) of heaven (universe) is Satan's kingdom for now -god of this world. Yet, man was given dominion, then sinned. Jesus overcame and left believers in charge. Hence, the spiritual war.


Did not the disciples ask jesus in Acts 1: 6 , " wilth thou at this TIME restore the Kingdom to Israel ??Yes, and Jesus did not deny their claim of a kingdom restored and that day will come because he is not slack concerning his promise.


In John1:31 , " And I knew Him not , but that He should be made MANIFEST TO ISRAEL , therefore am I come Baptizing with WATER .

The CONTEXT seem to me to point out that Water Baptism was given to Israel and NOT TO GENTILES

I have not found anywhere the Gentiles are commanded to Baptize ?

What say you ? dan pCommand? Some will argue Mar 16:16 is a command for Gentiles. It is interesting isn't it that every example where it is commanded/required it is Israel? Just sayin'

RabbiKnife
Feb 23rd 2011, 02:36 PM
Here is a passage where a Gentile was baptized

Act 8:36 And as they went on [their] way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, [here is] water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?


Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Actually, the eunuch was an Ethiopian Jew.

Cornelius and the Philippian Jailer are better examples for water baptism of Gentiles.

Amos_with_goats
Feb 23rd 2011, 03:11 PM
Dan,

I am glad you are asking these questions. I hope you will see that the dispensationalist ideas you have been taught are not consistent with the whole counsel of scripture.

Blessings,

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11
where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

Phish
Feb 23rd 2011, 05:59 PM
Actually, the eunuch was an Ethiopian Jew.

Cornelius and the Philippian Jailer are better examples for water baptism of Gentiles.

I have to admit I never gave this idea much thought, sounds like a good thread.

Will be interested in seeing your evidence for this.

Your right Cornelius and the Philippian jailer are better examples

dan p
Feb 23rd 2011, 07:38 PM
Hi Amos with Goats , and what you are writing , is written by Paul to the Body of Christ ,

Nor have anyone come close as to WHY water baprism was given to Israel as we Gentiles are cleanse by the Blood of Christ , dan p

Firstfruits
Feb 23rd 2011, 09:29 PM
Hi Amos with Goats , and what you are writing , is written by Paul to the Body of Christ ,

Nor have anyone come close as to WHY water baprism was given to Israel as we Gentiles are cleanse by the Blood of Christ , dan p

We are all saved the same way, there is no difference.

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Firstfruits

Hananyahu
Feb 24th 2011, 12:03 AM
Hi to all and when looking at the book of Matt 3:1-11 , the CONTEXT John was preaching in the wilderness and saying , Repent ye , for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand .

It looks like the Kingdom of Heaven has to do with the 1000 year reign of Christ ??

Did not the disciples ask jesus in Acts 1: 6 , " wilth thou at this TIME restore the Kingdom to Israel ??

In John1:31 , " And I knew Him not , but that He should be made MANIFEST TO ISRAEL , therefore am I come Baptizing with WATER .

The CONTEXT seem to me to point out that Water Baptism was given to Israel and NOT TO GENTILES

I have not found anywhere the Gentiles are commanded to Baptize ?

What say you ? dan p

"Therefore, go and make disciples of all the NATIONS [GENTILES], BAPTIZING them in the NAME of the Father [YAHUAH] and the Son [YAHUSHA] and the Holy Spirit [RUACH HA QADASH]." - Matthew 28:19

Nations in Hebrew is Goyim.

1471 gowy go'-ee rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee}; apparently from the same root as 1465 (http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=hebrewlexicon&isindex=1465) (in the sense of massing); A FOREIGN NATION; hence, a GENTILE; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, NATION, people.

So to answer your question, YES. because after the Gentiles are Baptized, they are no longer Gentiles but Citizens of Israel or in Hebrew YASHARAL.

dan p
Feb 24th 2011, 12:12 AM
"Therefore, go and make disciples of all the NATIONS [GENTILES], BAPTIZING them in the NAME of the Father [YAHUAH] and the Son [YAHUSHA] and the Holy Spirit [RUACH HA QADASH]." - Matthew 28:19

Nations in Hebrew is Goyim.

1471 gowy go'-ee rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee}; apparently from the same root as 1465 (http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=hebrewlexicon&isindex=1465) (in the sense of massing); A FOREIGN NATION; hence, a GENTILE; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, NATION, people.

So to answer your question, YES. because after the Gentiles are Baptized, they are no longer Gentiles but Citizens of Israel or in Hebrew YASHARAL.

Hi Hananyahu , and in Matt 28:19 the Greek for NATION is ETHNOS , and just a suggestion , would be to check every instant where ETHNOS is used in the NT , then come back an let me know if there is a difference , and there is , dan p

Firefighter
Feb 24th 2011, 12:20 AM
What about Cornelius?

Hananyahu
Feb 24th 2011, 12:44 AM
Firstly, one should not put the Greek language over the Set-apart language.

1484. ethnos eth'-nos probably from 1486; a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a FOREIGN (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan):--GENTILE, HEATHEN, NATION, PEOPLE.

Secondly, Ethnos says nothing noticeably different than 1471

1471 gowy go'-ee rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee}; apparently from the same root as 1465 (in the sense of massing); A FOREIGN NATION; hence, a GENTILE; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--GENTILE, HEATHEN, NATION, PEOPLE.

Save me the time of exhaustive research, and point out the scriptures where it differs please.

BroRog
Feb 24th 2011, 01:16 AM
Hi to all and when looking at the book of Matt 3:1-11 , the CONTEXT John was preaching in the wilderness and saying , Repent ye , for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand .

It looks like the Kingdom of Heaven has to do with the 1000 year reign of Christ ??

Did not the disciples ask jesus in Acts 1: 6 , " wilth thou at this TIME restore the Kingdom to Israel ??

In John1:31 , " And I knew Him not , but that He should be made MANIFEST TO ISRAEL , therefore am I come Baptizing with WATER .

The CONTEXT seem to me to point out that Water Baptism was given to Israel and NOT TO GENTILES

I have not found anywhere the Gentiles are commanded to Baptize ?

What say you ? dan pBaptism was not a uniquely Jewish practice. Gentiles baptized people for various reasons, and not all of them religious. While the Jews practiced ritual cleansing ceremonies, baptism itself wasn't a normal practice. In Israel, baptism the way John practiced it was reserved for converts to Judaism, thus the implicit irony when Israelites came to be baptized by John.

As far as I can tell from the NT, Christian baptism was fairly common, both among the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers.

dan p
Feb 24th 2011, 01:31 AM
Hi BroRog , and why not read Heb 9:10 and we will all see that Israel practice water Baptism in the OT .

Check out the word WASHING/BAPTIMOS in verse 10 ?

And Heb 6:1 and 2 !! dan p

dagar
Feb 24th 2011, 01:37 AM
As far as I can tell from the NT, Christian baptism was fairly common, both among the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers.Interesting statement since Cornelius is the only example commanded by a man as Moses commanded, not commanded as a commandment from God. That's fairly common in the NT?

BroRog
Feb 24th 2011, 01:39 AM
Hi BroRog , and why not read Heb 9:10 and we will all see that Israel practice water Baptism in the OT .

Check out the word WASHING/BAPTIMOS in verse 10 ?

And Heb 6:1 and 2 !! dan pDan, the term baptismos doesn't always refer to the religious rite of Christian baptism. The "washings" of Hebrews 9:10 were the ritual cleansings prescribed in the Mosaic Law, but these washings were for ritual purposes, not as an initiation into the teaching that one must repent of their sins.

BroRog
Feb 24th 2011, 01:41 AM
Interesting statement since Cornelius is the only example commanded by a man as Moses commanded, not commanded as a commandment from God. That's fairly common in the NT?Huh? I really don't get this at all.

RabbiKnife
Feb 24th 2011, 02:46 PM
It means that when you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

dan p
Feb 24th 2011, 07:55 PM
Dan, the term baptismos doesn't always refer to the religious rite of Christian baptism. The "washings" of Hebrews 9:10 were the ritual cleansings prescribed in the Mosaic Law, but these washings were for ritual purposes, not as an initiation into the teaching that one must repent of their sins.

Hi BroRog , and I disagree , and do you think that Mark 7:4 was for ritual purposes and the Greek word : washing : here is BAPTIZO .

In Heb 9:10 these " washing /BAPTIMOS shows that Baptisms for Israel , UNTIL THE TIME OF RESTORATION , what many see as the 1000 reign of Christ .

No where do we find CHRISTIANOS BAPTIZO / or BAPTIMOS , do we , no we do not , dan p

BroRog
Feb 24th 2011, 08:21 PM
Hi BroRog , and I disagree , and do you think that Mark 7:4 was for ritual purposes and the Greek word : washing : here is BAPTIZO .

In Heb 9:10 these " washing /BAPTIMOS shows that Baptisms for Israel , UNTIL THE TIME OF RESTORATION , what many see as the 1000 reign of Christ .

No where do we find CHRISTIANOS BAPTIZO / or BAPTIMOS , do we , no we do not , dan pWhen we read, we are attempting to understand what the author had in his mind to express in his or her own language. I think you will find, for instance, that the Greek term "baptismos" was a common term among the Greek speakers of the day and not all of them were believers, and not all of them were talking about the Christian initiation ceremony, especially Greek speaking Jews.

Since you have an interest in Greek, I would encourage you to take an interpretation class. I think it would benefit you greatly.

dan p
Feb 24th 2011, 10:37 PM
When we read, we are attempting to understand what the author had in his mind to express in his or her own language. I think you will find, for instance, that the Greek term "baptismos" was a common term among the Greek speakers of the day and not all of them were believers, and not all of them were talking about the Christian initiation ceremony, especially Greek speaking Jews.

Since you have an interest in Greek, I would encourage you to take an interpretation class. I think it would benefit you greatly.

Hi BroRog , and I see that you avoided any reference to Mark 7:4 ??

Maybe , 1 Cor 10:2 would be more to your liking , where the Jews were all WERE BAPTIZED /BAPTIZO unto Moses in the Cloud and in the Sea ??

Maybe you can tell me why Baptisms were given to Israel and you will never find a verse on so-called Christian Baptism but I know why , there are no Christians in the Gospels as they are not called christian until Acts 11:26 /

Has anyone not seen that Paul in any of his letters , NEVER refer to saints in the Body of Christ as Christians ??

RabbiKnife
Feb 24th 2011, 10:38 PM
Well, that's obvious symbolic as Scripture is clear that they crossed on dry land and didn't get wet.

notuptome
Feb 24th 2011, 10:52 PM
Have you guys been eating bread with unwashed hands again?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

BroRog
Feb 24th 2011, 10:57 PM
Hi BroRog , and I see that you avoided any reference to Mark 7:4 ??

Maybe , 1 Cor 10:2 would be more to your liking , where the Jews were all WERE BAPTIZED /BAPTIZO unto Moses in the Cloud and in the Sea ?? dan pDan, I don't know where you are getting your information but you need to stop listening to these folks. Believe me, I've written thousands of words on the subject of baptism and written pages and pages on the subject here and have done vast amounts of research on the subject and I can tell you that baptism wasn't only given to Israel, that there are many different kinds of baptisms, and that baptism is not a uniquely Jewish practice.

dan p
Feb 24th 2011, 11:55 PM
Dan, I don't know where you are getting your information but you need to stop listening to these folks. Believe me, I've written thousands of words on the subject of baptism and written pages and pages on the subject here and have done vast amounts of research on the subject and I can tell you that baptism wasn't only given to Israel, that there are many different kinds of baptisms, and that baptism is not a uniquely Jewish practice.

Hi BroRog , and you have one right , that there are many kinds of BAPTIZO , and I see 12 0f them and 99% do not use water ,

With all your research and paper writing , please say " why Israel had to be BAPTIZED ?

Tell me and I will tell you mine ? dan p

dagar
Feb 25th 2011, 01:07 AM
Huh? I really don't get this at all.You said
"As far as I can tell from the NT, Christian baptism was fairly common, both among the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers."
Show us from the NT that baptism was fairly common among Gentiles.

BroRog
Feb 25th 2011, 01:23 AM
You said
"As far as I can tell from the NT, Christian baptism was fairly common, both among the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers."
Show us from the NT that baptism was fairly common among Gentiles.I can show both from the New Testament, and from other Greek literature that ancient cultures all practiced some form of baptism. In fact, I think a cursory review of the book of Acts will demonstrate that Gentiles were being baptised and I think some folks in this thread have given you the references. We know from Romans, 1Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians that Gentiles were being baptized.

dan p
Feb 25th 2011, 01:38 AM
I can show both from the New Testament, and from other Greek literature that ancient cultures all practiced some form of baptism. In fact, I think a cursory review of the book of Acts will demonstrate that Gentiles were being baptised and I think some folks in this thread have given you the references. We know from Romans, 1Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians that Gentiles were being baptized.

Hi BR , when you have time , please give me those verses where Gentiles are called Christians and where Gentiles were baptized , and I have givem why Jews had to Repent and be Baptized , NOW where is that verse where Gentile are called to Repentance ??

Please use good context and nothing fro Paul , since he wrote years LATER , dan p

dagar
Feb 25th 2011, 01:47 AM
I can show both from the New Testament, and from other Greek literature that ancient cultures all practiced some form of baptism. In fact, I think a cursory review of the book of Acts will demonstrate that Gentiles were being baptised and I think some folks in this thread have given you the references. We know from Romans, 1Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians that Gentiles were being baptized.You cannot show from the NT "that baptism was fairly common among Gentiles.". You can from other sources but so what! They did infant baptism too! The word of (message) God was corrupt in Paul's day so this proves nothing. They also tried to keep the ceremonial law. Does that mean we should? According to Peter and Paul the first century church had many false teachers and doctrines. Stick with scripture! You cannot show but one instance in Acts and any instance elsewhere in the NT is not water baptism. Oh, and they were doing baptism before Jesus came along...so....so what? What does this have to do with Scripture Roger?

BroRog
Feb 25th 2011, 01:54 AM
Hi BR , when you have time , please give me those verses where Gentiles are called Christians and where Gentiles were baptized , and I have givem why Jews had to Repent and be Baptized , NOW where is that verse where Gentile are called to Repentance ??

Please use good context and nothing fro Paul , since he wrote years LATER , dan pI'm sorry Dan, I don't play those games.

dagar
Feb 25th 2011, 01:57 AM
Yes, we wouldn't expect Roger to post Bible passages in Bible Chat, now would we?

dagar
Feb 25th 2011, 01:59 AM
NOW where is that verse where Gentile are called to Repentance ??Seriously? Repentance? I thought you wanted to know about baptism?

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

BroRog
Feb 25th 2011, 01:59 AM
You cannot show from the NT "that baptism was fairly common among Gentiles.". You can from other sources but so what! They did infant baptism too! The word of (message) God was corrupt in Paul's day so this proves nothing. They also tried to keep the ceremonial law. Does that mean we should? According to Peter and Paul the first century church had many false teachers and doctrines. Stick with scripture! You cannot show but one instance in Acts and any instance elsewhere in the NT is not water baptism.I don't know what you think this is all about, but the OP made the claim that Baptism was unique to Israel. If we find other Gentiles, even pagan Gentiles, baptising folks, then the point has been proven to be in error.

And yes, the scriptures I provided actually do prove that baptism was common among Gentiles, especially Gentile believers.

BroRog
Feb 25th 2011, 02:00 AM
Yes, we wouldn't expect Roger to post Bible passages in Bible Chat, now would we?What do you mean? Why does this have to be a big fight with you?

Phish
Feb 25th 2011, 02:01 AM
I don't know what you think this is all about, but the OP made the claim that Baptism was unique to Israel. If we find other Gentiles, even pagan Gentiles, baptising folks, then the point has been proven to be in error.

And yes, the scriptures I provided actually do prove that baptism was common among Gentiles, especially Gentile believers.

amen, End Thread............

dagar
Feb 25th 2011, 02:02 AM
I don't know what you think this is all about, but the OP made the claim that Baptism was unique to Israel. If we find other Gentiles, even pagan Gentiles, baptising folks, then the point has been proven to be in error.Read it again
"I have not found anywhere the Gentiles are commanded to Baptize ?"


And yes, the scriptures I provided actually do prove that baptism was common among Gentiles, especially Gentile believers.uhu right

dagar
Feb 25th 2011, 02:02 AM
amen, End Thread............You need to re-read too

BroRog
Feb 25th 2011, 02:08 AM
Read it again
"I have not found anywhere the Gentiles are commanded to Baptize ?"No, you don't find this explicitly but the fact that they did get baptized begs the question.

dan p
Feb 25th 2011, 02:28 AM
amen, End Thread............

Hi Phish , just say I do not know and move on . This is not the only forum that I post this , and people need to know why Baptism was given to Israel only and why Jesus also had to be Baptized ,

As a highpriest , Jesus had to be baptize to fulfill the Righteous of the Law as all Priests had to wash before going into the Holy of Holies .

The reason that Baptism was given only to Israel was because the Jews had become Idol Worshippers , their Judges were corrupt , with blood on their hands and they had to be CLEANSED before entering the Millennium.

But since the they killed their Messiah all Jews will be Purged .

Those that endure to the END of the Tribulation will enter the Millennium as Kings and Priests as Rev 1:6 points out in just one of many verses , dan p

Phish
Feb 25th 2011, 02:40 AM
Hi Phish , just say I do not know and move on . This is not the only forum that I post this , and people need to know why Baptism was given to Israel only and why Jesus also had to be Baptized ,

As a highpriest , Jesus had to be baptize to fulfill the Righteous of the Law as all Priests had to wash before going into the Holy of Holies .

The reason that Baptism was given only to Israel was because the Jews had become Idol Worshippers , their Judges were corrupt , with blood on their hands and they had to be CLEANSED before entering the Millennium.

But since the they killed their Messiah all Jews will be Purged .

Those that endure to the END of the Tribulation will enter the Millennium as Kings and Priests as Rev 1:6 points out in just one of many verses , dan p

HUH???

All Jews Purged? Really?

Just to clarify, the Jews didn't kill their messiah, He died willingly. It was my sin that he did it for, so you could say I caused it.

I really don't agree with your theology

percho
Feb 25th 2011, 03:23 AM
Hi Phish , just say I do not know and move on . This is not the only forum that I post this , and people need to know why Baptism was given to Israel only and why Jesus also had to be Baptized ,

As a highpriest , Jesus had to be baptize to fulfill the Righteous of the Law as all Priests had to wash before going into the Holy of Holies .

The reason that Baptism was given only to Israel was because the Jews had become Idol Worshippers , their Judges were corrupt , with blood on their hands and they had to be CLEANSED before entering the Millennium.

But since the they killed their Messiah all Jews will be Purged .

Those that endure to the END of the Tribulation will enter the Millennium as Kings and Priests as Rev 1:6 points out in just one of many verses , dan p

To become high preist did Jesus have to receive the washing of water or the washing of regeneration? How shall we be saved? Forwarned trick question. Not really though.

dagar
Feb 25th 2011, 03:29 AM
No, you don't find this explicitly but the fact that they did get baptized begs the question.Yes it does. In that very instance Peter was still very much learning and said so himself, as was the church throughout the book of Acts. Five chapters later, while the church was still learning -Peter present (the one that had commanded baptism five chapters earlier), water baptism was not listed as something Gentiles were required by commandment to do. Now before anyone says it was a given, they need to realize circumcision was being required by commandment -Act 15:5, so the question of 'things required by commandment' was being answered here. The question remains then. Why wasn't water baptism listed? If water baptism is required by commandment why not the Lord's supper? I think there's a poll on here somewhere and vast majority did not believe water baptism to be required.

boangry
Feb 25th 2011, 06:22 AM
I have not found anywhere the Gentiles are commanded to Baptize ?

What say you ? dan p

Is this a trick question? We are under grace so it's not Going to be there. But as the Lords baptism on the cross by way of death burial and resurrection leads to a option of everlasting life for whom may believe. Therefore those who have as an confession of now deciding to follow Christ, and receiving eternal life. Will also publically declare there allegiance to Christ through the act of water immersion. Also we are to follow Pauls example, who also got baptised and baptised people


Paul teaches implicitly not explicitly in acts 22:16 by his own baptism, it’s a public confessing or declaration of a person following Jesus Christ, notice Paul was told to wash away his sins calling on the name of your lord, this seems like a contradiction for we know only the blood washes away sins.
For the Jew they had to renounce Israel and their involvement with her rejection of Messiah, water baptism was a public confession of this and was a proclamation that they were now removed from the unpardonable sin which is Israels. There is therefore no mention of the washing away of sin for the gentile. Also this means the water baptism is different after the cross than before.

Another point baptism in the church is for those already a part of the church, whom are already believers, for baptism (baptism by immersion in water) has no saving merit whatsoever, Only those who have been immersed (baptised) by the Holy Spirit and are born again, according to the one Baptism of Gal 4
Will decide to confess through water baptism, therefore as already a part of the church they are neither Jew nor Gentile

Dont know why you are referring to Mark 7:4 for the Immersion of hands and washing of cups and stuff, which is under the Pharisaical laws, makes me think you dont understand it!

Also on a side note, notice John said behold the lamb of the world, he knew of the mystery program and that the Lord was a lamb come for a sacrifice to be offered up for the WORLD. Just by declaring that Jesus was the lamb shows this.

Firefighter
Feb 25th 2011, 12:52 PM
Let's not forget that the church at Corinth was baptized (1 Corinthians 1) although Paul only baptized a very select few. Corinth was FAR from Jewish.

dan p
Feb 25th 2011, 06:52 PM
Let's not forget that the church at Corinth was baptized (1 Corinthians 1) although Paul only baptized a very select few. Corinth was FAR from Jewish.

Hi Firefighter and very soon I will show why Paul NEVER water baptized and why under the Grace of God we di not baptize ,

And , yes I know of 1 Cor 1 :14-17 . dan p

Firefighter
Feb 25th 2011, 07:39 PM
So Paul plainly states that he DID baptize, and yet you are going to show me that he did NOT baptize. THIS oughta be good. I am waiting with breathless anticipation.

keck553
Feb 25th 2011, 08:24 PM
Hi Firefighter and very soon I will show why Paul NEVER water baptized and why under the Grace of God we di not baptize ,

And , yes I know of 1 Cor 1 :14-17 . dan p

Don't tell me. The Ethiopean eunuch was a Jew too?

dan p
Feb 25th 2011, 11:15 PM
So Paul plainly states that he DID baptize, and yet you are going to show me that he did NOT baptize. THIS oughta be good. I am waiting with breathless anticipation.

Hi Firefighter , now do not hold your breath to long , as I do not not give mouth to mouth .

I will have to post a couple more posts to set it up , and your assignment is to see how many WAYS BAPTIZO , is translated , since there are 12 different kind of Baptisms , dan p

dan p
Feb 25th 2011, 11:29 PM
Don't tell me. The Ethiopean eunuch was a Jew too?

Hi keck553 , and someone else started a OP on that , but what is also impotant , that all miss is that this Ethiopian was reading isa 53 .

We now see that he was a believer .

He believed wahat Phillip preached to him .

He had just returned from WORSHIPING in Jerusalem , verse 27 .

And in verse 36 , was Baptized , because that was still the Program for salvation in Israel .

After he was baptized , he then for sure became a Jew .

There were not so-caleed Christians at that TIME , until Acts 11:26 .

And , YES Baptism was for Israel ONLY , DAN P