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John Cathey
Feb 26th 2011, 03:50 AM
I was reading an article that rendered "atoning sacrifice" in I John 4:10 as "expiation". I checked it out and the rendering appears in the RSV, a trustworthy translation, however, the only one that translates it so, to my finding. Most translate it as "propitiation". Why would the RSV decide to differ in so drastic a way here?

amazzin
Feb 26th 2011, 03:55 AM
Definition of EXPIATION
1: the act of making atonement
2: the means by which atonement is made

Definition of PROPITIATION
1: the act of propitiating
2: something that propitiates; specifically : an atoning sacrifice


Both words mean the same thing.

Zack702
Feb 26th 2011, 04:00 AM
I was reading an article that rendered "atoning sacrifice" in I John 4:10 as "expiation". I checked it out and the rendering appears in the RSV, a trustworthy translation, however, the only one that translates it so, to my finding. Most translate it as "propitiation". Why would the RSV decide to differ in so drastic a way here?

What is the drastic difference in the terms don't they mean almost the same thing ?

I thought they were trying to make it easier to read.
Maybe they actually are replacing words if they can rather than they feel they should.

John Cathey
Feb 26th 2011, 04:06 AM
Might I ask, for sake of research, where your particular definitions are derived from? Thanks for the quick input!

amazzin
Feb 26th 2011, 04:08 AM
Might I ask, for sake of research, where your particular definitions are derived from? Thanks for the quick input!

A huge hard cover book that is quite heavy called a DICTIONARY ;)

Zack702
Feb 26th 2011, 04:24 AM
Based on my limited sources propitiate could mean to satisfy.

Expiate could mean to redeem.

But since these words are not necessarily common sense I am a bit unsure.

John Cathey
Feb 26th 2011, 04:32 AM
pretty good. suppose that'll do! reason I looked at them differently is that I learnt expiation as the removal of sin (however it may be done) and propitiation as the satisfaction of the wrath of God. The two work together in orthodox theology, however, unorthodox theories often try to remove one of these components (usually propitiation). check out Wayne Grudem's Bible Doctrine for a great overview of this concept of expiation and propitiation. still, I imagine that the logic behind it was closer to what you've presented. I did notice that the NRSV (of which I am a big fan) renders it as "atoning sacrifice" which is closer to all the other versions that don't directly say propitiation. Thanks!

Zack702
Feb 26th 2011, 04:46 AM
I see your point. It is kind of like dissecting the phrase into different meanings.
However with context the true intention should remain.
Atonement is easier to understand if you ask me.
Trying to understand the science of atonement might be a bit different.

John Cathey
Feb 26th 2011, 06:20 AM
greatly agreed.

RogerW
Feb 28th 2011, 07:05 PM
pretty good. suppose that'll do! reason I looked at them differently is that I learnt expiation as the removal of sin (however it may be done) and propitiation as the satisfaction of the wrath of God. The two work together in orthodox theology, however, unorthodox theories often try to remove one of these components (usually propitiation). check out Wayne Grudem's Bible Doctrine for a great overview of this concept of expiation and propitiation. still, I imagine that the logic behind it was closer to what you've presented. I did notice that the NRSV (of which I am a big fan) renders it as "atoning sacrifice" which is closer to all the other versions that don't directly say propitiation. Thanks!

I don't know...but it seems to me that propitiation is the expiator - the one who pays the penalty for our sins. While atonement is an exchange - reconciling us back to God...So Christ is our "atoning sacrifice"...seems a good fit... But the Bible does speak of Christ as the One who pays the penalty for sin, and the One Who changes places with us, we get His righteousness and He gets to suffer the wrath of God we deserve.