PDA

View Full Version : How was PAUL saved ??



dan p
Feb 26th 2011, 08:27 PM
Hi to all . and all seem to know that on the way to Damascus SAUL bring back believers ( who were these believers and what assembly did they belong too ) back to Jerusalem , bound .

In Acts 9:3 , all agree that SAUL was struck down .

In verse Saul says these words , " Lord , what wilt thou have me do ."

So , how was Saul saved ?

By the preaching of the Law ?

By the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus taught ?

Or by Grace ??

And I say that Saul was also Baptised in this verse ?

What say you ? dan p

Phish
Feb 26th 2011, 08:58 PM
I suspect that paul was not saved at this point, not until Ananias came and laid hands on him. Its at this point scripture tells us Paul recived the Holy Spirit and his eyes were opened. I know it was a physical healing but could have been symbolic as well.

Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.


Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Slina
Feb 26th 2011, 09:17 PM
Obviously he was saved through faith by God's loving grace, just like everyone else who's ever been saved. He said himself multiple times that he kept the law as well as anyone (Phil 3, for example), but he also says many more times that salvation is and always has been by faith and not by keeping the law. He even spends an entire chapter (Rom 4) talking about how Abraham was saved by his faith and not by any works he had done. I also agree with Phish that he probably got saved a bit later when Ananias came to talk to him and return his sight since it is kind of implied there. His testimony in Acts 22 does seem to support that.

Acts 22:16 (right after his sight was returned) - "Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name."

doug3
Feb 26th 2011, 09:22 PM
Paul was saved the same way that Peter, John, Paul or any other Christian was (or is) saved; that is by grace, by God's unmerited favor, which in NO way proves the heresy that you are trying to push on several threads on this board.

LookingUp
Feb 26th 2011, 09:40 PM
Hi to all . and all seem to know that on the way to Damascus SAUL bring back believers ( who were these believers and what assembly did they belong too ) back to Jerusalem , bound .

In Acts 9:3 , all agree that SAUL was struck down .

In verse Saul says these words , " Lord , what wilt thou have me do ."

So , how was Saul saved ?

By the preaching of the Law ?

By the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus taught ?

Or by Grace ??

And I say that Saul was also Baptised in this verse ?

What say you ? dan pHe was saved by grace through faith. How do you think all men before Paul were saved?

According to Acts 22:16, it sounds like Paul didn’t call upon the name of the Lord until after his sight was given back to him. Many people go through a similar process—praying, contemplating, meditating in humility, seeking after the truth, and then sight is given to them (spiritual sight) and they are born of the Spirit.

Servant89
Feb 26th 2011, 10:34 PM
Paul did not repent (Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.), Paul was not asking for salvation, Paul did not believe in Jesus.... when God looked at his heart and noticed that he had something he liked. God saw the end product, who Paul was going to be if he had an encounter of the best kind and for that reason, Jesus left his throne in heaven and came down to get him.

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Ps 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Shalom

Dani H
Feb 26th 2011, 10:46 PM
Somewhere in there, Paul acknowledged Jesus' lordship and recognized that the persecution he'd been unloading on the followers of Christ was, in fact, sin.

He turned from an enemy of Christ to one of his most devoted followers.

That's pretty much the way of salvation for the rest of us, too.

From enemy of God, to His friend and follower, by realizing Jesus is in fact God's resurrected Son and not just the dead and long gone leader of some aberrant, short-lived sect.

If somebody you thought was dead spoke to you from beyond the grave, and the glory of it all knocked you off your horse in the light of noon and rendered you blind ... that has a way of getting people's attention. :D

Servant89
Feb 26th 2011, 11:13 PM
Somewhere in there, Paul acknowledged Jesus' lordship and recognized that the persecution he'd been unloading on the followers of Christ was, in fact, sin.

He turned from an enemy of Christ to one of his most devoted followers.

That's pretty much the way of salvation for the rest of us, too.

From enemy of God, to His friend and follower, by realizing Jesus is in fact God's resurrected Son and not just the dead and long gone leader of some aberrant, short-lived sect.

If somebody you thought was dead spoke to you from beyond the grave, and the glory of it all knocked you off your horse in the light of noon and rendered you blind ... that has a way of getting people's attention. :D

Yes it does. That indeed has a way of getting people's attention. Our God is so good, and his mercy endures forever.

Peace

dan p
Feb 26th 2011, 11:38 PM
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Shalom

Hi talking Donkey and Dani H , have made the most sense ,

I especially like Eph 1:4 , that the Holy Spirit says through Paul that WE WERE CHOSEN,ELECTED us nin Him before the Foundation od what it measn , is the overthrow of the world .

We were chosen before He ( CHRIST ) made the universe .

And 2 Tim 1:9 says the same thing !

When SAUL called Jesus LORD/KURIOS , Paul was calling Jesus Jehovah .

In 1 Cor 12:3 , several things happen here .

#1 , Paul is saved by Grace .
#2 , And no man can call Jesus is the Lord , BUT by the Holy Sprit .
#3 , That means that SAUL was saved , OTHERWISE , Saul could not call Him Lord , very simple .
#4 , This also means that SAUL had the Holy Spirit , to call Him Lord .
#5 , This also means that Saul /PAUL was the first member of the Body of Christ .
#6 , Saul was placed into the Body of Christ by 1 Cor 12:13 .
#7 , SAUL WAS not water Baptized , as it not supported by the Context of Acts 9:6 .

DAN P

Servant89
Feb 26th 2011, 11:48 PM
#3 , That means that SAUL was saved , OTHERWISE , Saul could not call Him Lord , very simple .
#4 , This also means that SAUL had the Holy Spirit , to call Him Lord .
#5 , This also means that Saul /PAUL was the first member of the Body of Christ .

DAN P

Peter called him Lord before the Holy Spirit moved INSIDE him (John 7:37-39). Jn 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The beginning of the Church was prophesied in the feast of the first fruits (Pentcost). Jesus was the first fruit (singular), Pentecost was the first harvest of believers. Paul was after that.

Shalom

dan p
Feb 26th 2011, 11:56 PM
Hi Servant89 , and you do know the difference , between EKKLESIA/ASSEMBLY or what all call Church ;

AND what Paul calls the Body of Christ ??

Assembly , and Body of Christ are 3 SEPARATE Greek words and are not the same , dan p

Servant89
Feb 27th 2011, 12:04 AM
Hi Servant89 , and you do know the difference , between EKKLESIA/ASSEMBLY or what all call Church ;

AND what Paul calls the Body of Christ ??

Assembly , and Body of Christ are 3 SEPARATE Greek words and are not the same , dan p

No, I dont know the difference. Educate me, please.

Shalom

LookingUp
Feb 27th 2011, 12:07 AM
Paul did not repent (Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.),The repentance here is about God's repentance. It just means that He will not change his mind (repent) about the gifts and calling.

As far as who it is that should repent, God declares that ALL people everywhere should repent (Acts 17:30).

And we are commanded to believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and to love one another (1 John 2:8). When we do, we are obeying His “commandment.” That’s why it is called the “obedience of faith” (Rom. 1:5; Rom. 16:26).


Paul was not asking for salvation, Paul did not believe in Jesus....Paul didn’t seem concerned with his eternal salvation. I’m sure he thought that was covered. What brings people to their knees seeking help from God is the same thing: a humble and contrite heart. What gets their heart there varies. What made Paul’s heart finally open, humble and ready to receive? The encounter.


when God looked at his heart and noticed that he had something he liked.Huh? God sees "potential" in us, so He saves us? Sounds like works-based salvation to me.

We know what kind of heart God seeks:

“The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise” (Psalm 51:17).

“But to this one I will look, to him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word” (Isa. 66:2).

“My shield is with God, who saves the upright in heart” (Psalm 7:10).

Slina
Feb 27th 2011, 12:09 AM
In 1 Cor 12:3 , several things happen here .

#1 , Paul is saved by Grace .
#2 , And no man can call Jesus is the Lord , BUT by the Holy Sprit .
#3 , That means that SAUL was saved , OTHERWISE , Saul could not call Him Lord , very simple .
#4 , This also means that SAUL had the Holy Spirit , to call Him Lord .
#5 , This also means that Saul /PAUL was the first member of the Body of Christ .
#6 , Saul was placed into the Body of Christ by 1 Cor 12:13 .
#7 , SAUL WAS not water Baptized , as it not supported by the Context of Acts 9:6 .

DAN P

I don't think #3 is quite that simple per se. Paul wasn't even sure who he was talking to at the time, so I doubt he was acknowledging Jesus Christ as his lord and savior quite yet. He also couldn't have had the Holy Spirit inside him yet (though doubtless the Spirit was working inside him by that point), since later Ananias comes in part so that he could be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 9:17 - So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”

Also look at the very next verse, wherein Paul is indeed baptized.

Acts 9:18 - And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized;

I don't see any evidence either in Acts 9 or in 1 Cor 12 that Paul was the first member of the body of Christ. Yes, Paul is the one who talked about the church as the body of Christ, but there are several references to the church before Paul was even saved: Acts 5:11 and Acts 8:1,3 for example.

And yes, the greek words for church and for body of Christ are different, but it's pretty safe to say they refer to the same thing. Paul simply uses the example of a body to illustrate to his readers what the church should be like and how it should work. We are many different parts but are all part of the same body and all that. :)

BroRog
Feb 27th 2011, 12:13 AM
Hi to all . and all seem to know that on the way to Damascus SAUL bring back believers ( who were these believers and what assembly did they belong too ) back to Jerusalem , bound .

In Acts 9:3 , all agree that SAUL was struck down .

In verse Saul says these words , " Lord , what wilt thou have me do ."

So , how was Saul saved ?

By the preaching of the Law ?

By the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus taught ?

Or by Grace ??

And I say that Saul was also Baptised in this verse ?

What say you ? dan pHe was saved by all three Dan.

Servant89
Feb 27th 2011, 12:13 AM
Huh? God sees "potential" in us, so He saves us? Sounds like works-based salvation to me.

.

I actually love your post except for that statement above. Why not assume that I meant "God sees the heart" (and not the works)?

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Because I did not mean the works or salvation by works. God saw someone persecuting him (out of ignorance) and God saw someone that was going to give him his own head (brain, soul, heart, and yes, head too) for the gospel.

Shalom

dan p
Feb 27th 2011, 12:15 AM
No, I dont know the difference. Educate me, please.

Shalom

Hi Sevant89 , and the Greek word EKKLESIA is translated Church in almost every bible .

In Vines Dictionary you will have to find EKKLESIA under Assembly /

SOMA means Body

CHISTOS means Christ .

Thee different Greek words .

Paul is the ONLY Apostle to use this term , Body of Christ .

All translations are NOT inspired as only the Original Autographs are inspired and there is no such thing as Double Inspiration , dan p

LookingUp
Feb 27th 2011, 12:26 AM
Hi Servant89 , and you do know the difference , between EKKLESIA/ASSEMBLY or what all call Church ;

AND what Paul calls the Body of Christ ??

Assembly , and Body of Christ are 3 SEPARATE Greek words and are not the same , dan p"He is also head of the body, the church" (Col. 1:18).

"...I do share on behalf of his body, which is the church..." (Col. 1:24).

"...to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood" (Acts 20:28).

"Peter's church":
"For I am the least of the apostles and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God" (1 Cor. 15:9).

"Paul's church":
"...but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)" (1 Tim. 3:5).

Paul persecuted the same church he became a member of--the church of God.

Servant89
Feb 27th 2011, 12:27 AM
Hi Sevant89 , and the Greek word EKKLESIA is translated Church in almost every bible .

In Vines Dictionary you will have to find EKKLESIA under Assembly /

SOMA means Body

CHISTOS means Christ .

Thee different Greek words .

Thank you. I believe that.


Paul is the ONLY Apostle to use this term , Body of Christ .

Paul said: 1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


All translations are NOT inspired as only the Original Autographs are inspired and there is no such thing as Double Inspiration , dan p

Trust me, the translations are inspired. Otherwise, God could not judge us (John 12:47-48). Mat 11:25 comes to mind too. Have faith...

Lk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

I read the JW NT and I noticed they worked hard at eliminating all the words that state Jesus is God. But even that corrupted version can send them to hell for they eliminated all the times Jesus said "I AM HE" except the one that counts the most (John 8:24-27). That tells me, their own corrupted Bible will send them to hell.

Satan's first words in the garden of Eden were. "Yeah, has God said?" Let us not question the Word of God.

Shalom

LookingUp
Feb 27th 2011, 12:33 AM
I actually love your post except for that statement above.Oh...cool.


Why not assume that I meant "God sees the heart" (and not the works)?Well, then I'd agree. :-)


Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Because I did not mean the works or salvation by works. God saw someone persecuting him (out of ignorance) and God saw someone that was going to give him his own head (brain, soul, heart, and yes, head too) for the gospel.

ShalomShalom!

dan p
Feb 27th 2011, 12:41 AM
I actually love your post except for that statement above. Why not assume that I meant "God sees the heart" (and not the works)?

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Shalom

Hi , and here is a great verse to remember in Rom 9:11 , that children who have died BEFORE being born OR those that have been Abort are saved by God , dan p

LookingUp
Feb 27th 2011, 12:54 AM
Hi talking Donkey and Dani H , have made the most sense ,

I especially like Eph 1:4 , that the Holy Spirit says through Paul that WE WERE CHOSEN,ELECTED us nin Him before the Foundation od what it measn , is the overthrow of the world .

We were chosen before He ( CHRIST ) made the universe .

And 2 Tim 1:9 says the same thing !

When SAUL called Jesus LORD/KURIOS , Paul was calling Jesus Jehovah .That’s debatable. After all, Paul does ask him “who are you?” Also, he wasn’t saved until three days of fasting and praying (Acts 22:16). Acts 22:16 tells us that he had NOT called on the name of the Lord and had NOT washed his sins away until AFTER he regained his sight.


In 1 Cor 12:3 , several things happen here .

#1 , Paul is saved by Grace .True.

#2 , And no man can call Jesus is the Lord , BUT by the Holy Sprit .And Acts 22;16 tells you WHEN Paul called upon the name of the Lord.

#3 , That means that SAUL was saved , OTHERWISE , Saul could not call Him Lord , very simple .”And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord WILL be saved” (Joel 2:32). You have to call on the name of the Lord FIRST and THEN you will be saved.

#4 , This also means that SAUL had the Holy Spirit , to call Him Lord .Same answer as above. The entire world has access to the Holy Spirit if they want it (John 16:8; John 12:32).

#5 , This also means that Saul /PAUL was the first member of the Body of Christ .Why’s that?

#6 , Saul was placed into the Body of Christ by 1 Cor 12:13 .
#7 , SAUL WAS not water Baptized , as it not supported by the Context of Acts 9:6 .But he was by Acts 9:18, so what is your point?