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View Full Version : How was PAUL Baptized , if ever ??



dan p
Feb 27th 2011, 12:06 AM
Hi to all , and I know that some have said that I teach Heresy , in the hope that I will not do any more posting .

I have the right to be wrong and I am never WRONG , even if I tried 10,000 things that did not WORK ,

And most will go to Acts 9:17-19 as their proof text .

In Acts 9:18 , Anaanis putting his hand on Paul , he received his sight and was Baptized .

Read verse 17 carefully before you repond , because I believe the answer is here .

What say you , dan p

BroRog
Feb 27th 2011, 12:16 AM
Hi to all , and I know that some have said that I teach Heresy , in the hope that I will not do any more posting .

I have the right to be wrong and I am never WRONG , even if I tried 10,000 things that did not WORK ,

And most will go to Acts 9:17-19 as their proof text .

In Acts 9:18 , Anaanis putting his hand on Paul , he received his sight and was Baptized .

Read verse 17 carefully before you repond , because I believe the answer is here .

What say you , dan pI don't know about heresy, but Dan, asking questions for which you already know the answer is irritating.

dan p
Feb 27th 2011, 12:31 AM
Hi BroRog , and since I do not a;; the answers and it just very , very , recently , that I have answer and JUST MAYBE , someone else will have a better answer than me . I learn from others , and Baptism is a VERY , VERY , large subject , dan p

jayne
Feb 27th 2011, 12:59 AM
According to Acts 22, when Paul gives his testimony in his own words, he was told by Ananias (who restored his sight) to "get up and be baptized".


Acts 22:12-16

12 “A man named Ananias came to see me. He was a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there. 13 He stood beside me and said, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight!’ And at that very moment I was able to see him.

14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

LookingUp
Feb 27th 2011, 08:05 AM
Compare Acts 9 with Acts 22:

“A certain Ananias…came to me, and standing near said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight!’ And at that very time I looked up at him” (Acts 22:13).

“Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on His name” (Acts 22:16).

“So Ananias departed and entered the house and after laying his hands on him said, ‘Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit’” (Acts 9:17)

“And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales and he regained his sight and he got up and was baptized; and he took food and was strengthened” (Acts 9:18-19).

First:
A certain Ananias…came to me
So Ananias departed and entered the house

Then:
standing near said to me
after laying his hands on him said

Then:
Brother Saul, receive your sight
Brother Saul...regain your sight

Then:
And at that very time I looked up at him
there fell from his eyes something like scales and he regained his sight

Finally:
Get up and be baptized
he got up and was baptized

He was told to GET UP and be baptized (Acts 22) and so he GOT UP and was baptized (Acts 9). People who get dunked have to "get up" to go do it. People don't have to "get up" to be baptized by the Holy Spirit.

Phish
Feb 27th 2011, 06:41 PM
Compare Acts 9 with Acts 22:

“A certain Ananias…came to me, and standing near said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight!’ And at that very time I looked up at him” (Acts 22:13).

“Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on His name” (Acts 22:16).

“So Ananias departed and entered the house and after laying his hands on him said, ‘Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit’” (Acts 9:17)

“And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales and he regained his sight and he got up and was baptized; and he took food and was strengthened” (Acts 9:18-19).

First:
A certain Ananias…came to me
So Ananias departed and entered the house

Then:
standing near said to me
after laying his hands on him said

Then:
Brother Saul, receive your sight
Brother Saul...regain your sight

Then:
And at that very time I looked up at him
there fell from his eyes something like scales and he regained his sight

Finally:
Get up and be baptized
he got up and was baptized

He was told to GET UP and be baptized (Acts 22) and so he GOT UP and was baptized (Acts 9). People who get dunked have to "get up" to go do it. People don't have to "get up" to be baptized by the Holy Spirit.

I don't think this could be any clearer.

Longsufferer
Feb 27th 2011, 06:48 PM
It is written that he was baptized, which is all that you need to know. Be not as the devil, who tempted Christ to prove something. As for we which do believe, we shall follow Christ and say, "It is written", and that´s all, nothing more, even as He did, shall we do.

1 Watchman
Feb 28th 2011, 01:02 AM
Hi to all , and I know that some have said that I teach Heresy , in the hope that I will not do any more posting .

I have the right to be wrong and I am never WRONG , even if I tried 10,000 things that did not WORK ,

And most will go to Acts 9:17-19 as their proof text .

In Acts 9:18 , Anaanis putting his hand on Paul , he received his sight and was Baptized .

Read verse 17 carefully before you repond , because I believe the answer is here .

What say you , dan p

What do you mean you are "never wrong"? Logically that seems to prove you are wrong.

I suppose in your attempt to try and trick someone, trying to be funny, or perhaps actually do believe it, you are going to say that Paul was baptized by the Holy Spirit in verse 17. He was not. Verse 18 gives the actual act of baptism. Either way one looks at this matter it is a bit irrelevant to Bible study. We know Paul was baptized at that time in about AD 35, and I am confident it was with water, for the only ref. in the Bible to "baptism in the Holy Spirit" refers only to the day of Pentecost.

- 1 Watchman

Amos_with_goats
Feb 28th 2011, 01:11 AM
Hi to all , and I know that some have said that I teach Heresy , in the hope that I will not do any more posting .

I have the right to be wrong and I am never WRONG , even if I tried 10,000 things that did not WORK ....


....What say you , dan p

:hmm:

This is really troubling.

:pray:

ProjectPeter
Feb 28th 2011, 01:39 AM
He was clearly dunked as were all the early Christians. It's simple and passages have already been posted showing the fact. Enough said really... although I figure that's just a pipe dream! ;)

Firefighter
Feb 28th 2011, 01:48 AM
Enough said really... although I figure that's just a pipe dream! ;)

If you are going to dream, you might as well dream BIG!!! :D

notuptome
Feb 28th 2011, 01:49 PM
If you are going to dream, you might as well dream BIG!!! :D
Often it is difficult to determine where the dreams end and the delusion begins.

When you think you stand take heed lest ye fall.

Repentance was often confirmed in water baptism in Judiasm.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

RabbiKnife
Feb 28th 2011, 02:00 PM
Paul spent three days and nights in the deep, so he was the most baptized of any believer ever.

dan p
Feb 28th 2011, 07:19 PM
If you are going to dream, you might as well dream BIG!!! :D

Hi Firefighter anf thanks you and I study hard as I can , and here is my answer in Acts 9:17 and I will eventually get to the many verse that say the same thing .

There is a small word that in verse 17 and in many other passages where this word is NOT in the Greek text and that change the meaning of Acts 9:17 .

Ananais says " and be filled with ( the ) Holy Spirit .

The word NOT in the Greek text is the word " THE ".

In the Greek books that I have read , the Greek Article can be easliy checked and lets write what Acts 9:17 is saying .

" that thou mightest receive thy sight , and BE FILLED with the Holy Spirit ."

#1 , first , there is NO mention of water bin verse 17 !! How about that ?

#2 , Next , most gloss over that Saul is to be " FILLED with Holy Spirit !

#3 , Water has NEVER FILLED anyone with the Power of the Holy Spirit ?

#4 , We are told in Eph 5:18 , " but be filled by ( the ) Spirit as " the " has been added .

#5 , And in Acts 2:4 , the word " the " is not used and should read " and they were all filled with Holy Spirit " .

#6 , and when the Greek article is n0ot used , It is talking about the POWER of the Holy Spirit .

#7 , and that is what Saul was baptized with in verse 17 the , Power of the Holy Spirit and NOT the Indwelling of the Holy Sprit , since Saul received that in Vrese 6 .

#8 , The word Baptize/BAPTIZO , does not ALWAYS mean water and if it is water , THE CONTEXT uses Water .

And as I have said before , this is a big subject and many books have been written of this subject and I have 2 books on it , and it will come up again , from many different directions , dan p

RabbiKnife
Feb 28th 2011, 07:28 PM
Not to be rude, Dan, but have you figured out yet that just about nobody on this forum really either believers your version of Pauline Dispensationalism or wants to hear it?

You are wasting your time.

ProjectPeter
Feb 28th 2011, 08:51 PM
#8 , The word Baptize/BAPTIZO , does not ALWAYS mean water and if it is water , THE CONTEXT uses Water .
Okay... let's put that to test.

Acts 8:4 *¶Therefore, those who had been scattered went about preaching the word.
5 *And Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming Christ to them.
6 *And the multitudes with one accord were giving attention to what was said by Philip, as they heard and saw the signs which he was performing.
7 *For in the case of many who had unclean spirits, they were coming out of them shouting with a loud voice; and many who had been paralyzed and lame were healed.
8 *And there was much rejoicing in that city.
9 *¶Now there was a certain man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city, and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;
10 *and they all, from smallest to greatest, were giving attention to him, saying, "This man is what is called the Great Power of God."
11 *And they were giving him attention because he had for a long time astonished them with his magic arts.
12 *But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
13 *And even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip; and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.


Where is water in this context where the word Baptize is used?

It isn't although we know reading further that they hadn't been yet filled with the Spirit of God.

You're making a very weak argument.

notuptome
Feb 28th 2011, 09:24 PM
Okay... let's put that to test.

Acts 8:4 *¶Therefore, those who had been scattered went about preaching the word.
5 *And Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming Christ to them.
6 *And the multitudes with one accord were giving attention to what was said by Philip, as they heard and saw the signs which he was performing.
7 *For in the case of many who had unclean spirits, they were coming out of them shouting with a loud voice; and many who had been paralyzed and lame were healed.
8 *And there was much rejoicing in that city.
9 *¶Now there was a certain man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city, and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;
10 *and they all, from smallest to greatest, were giving attention to him, saying, "This man is what is called the Great Power of God."
11 *And they were giving him attention because he had for a long time astonished them with his magic arts.
12 *But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
13 *And even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip; and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.


Where is water in this context where the word Baptize is used?

It isn't although we know reading further that they hadn't been yet filled with the Spirit of God.

You're making a very weak argument.
Perhaps you are not understanding the difference of baptised with the Holy Spirit unto salvation and filled with the Holy Spirit for power to be witnesses.

John 20 Jesus breathed the Spirit upon those in the upper room. Acts 2 The Holy Spirit filled them and Peter spoke with boldness. No water in either case.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

ProjectPeter
Feb 28th 2011, 10:55 PM
Perhaps you are not understanding the difference of baptised with the Holy Spirit unto salvation and filled with the Holy Spirit for power to be witnesses.

John 20 Jesus breathed the Spirit upon those in the upper room. Acts 2 The Holy Spirit filled them and Peter spoke with boldness. No water in either case.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Uh... follow the discussion. He said that any time the word is used for baptizing in water... that is made clear in the context. There is no use of WATER in that entire passage. Not necessary because it is clear Scripturally that the early church certainly practiced baptism in water. That folks argue that still today is about as goofy an argument as there is in all the various doctrinal differences. There are tons of writings historically as well that shows this.

dan p
Mar 1st 2011, 01:45 AM
Hi PP , and I see where you are headed .

You see that the context in verse 12 , that because it uses the word Baptizo and does not use water my argument is not valid ?

The question than for you is where has the water Program changed , since in Acts 8:26-38 , Phillip is still Baptizing with Water ??

The book of Acts is a very fascinating book , because it is a book of Transition from Law to Grace .

Baptizo can be translated by the following English words , Placed into ; Idenification , Dip , Wash .

Will to gave your take on 1 Cor 10:2 , what say you ???

ProjectPeter
Mar 1st 2011, 01:57 AM
Hi PP , and I see where you are headed .

You see that the context in verse 12 , that because it uses the word Baptizo and does not use water my argument is not valid ?

The question than for you is where has the water Program changed , since in Acts 8:26-38 , Phillip is still Baptizing with Water ??

The book of Acts is a very fascinating book , because it is a book of Transition from Law to Grace .

Baptizo can be translated by the following English words , Placed into ; Idenification , Dip , Wash .

Will to gave your take on 1 Cor 10:2 , what say you ???

Yeah... I know the book of transition argument and it's a silly one. Your problem with that... Acts follows Paul up to the last few years of his living days. The time between his arrest in Rome, release, and death by Rome after being arrested again, wasn't but a couple of years.

Paul baptized albeit he didn't dunk a lot of folks. But there were those that he did and I suspect it was because there was no one else around to do it. It needed done because it's what they did.

As to my take on 1 Corinthians 10... not going to give you my take. It is clear that you are still in need of milk and were I to give you that take... it would simply choke you. I'll not do that.

dan p
Mar 1st 2011, 02:07 AM
Yeah... I know the book of transition argument and it's a silly one. Your problem with that... Acts follows Paul up to the last few years of his living days. The time between his arrest in Rome, release, and death by Rome after being arrested again, wasn't but a couple of years.

Paul baptized albeit he didn't dunk a lot of folks. But there were those that he did and I suspect it was because there was no one else around to do it. It needed done because it's what they did.

As to my take on 1 Corinthians 10... not going to give you my take. It is clear that you are still in need of milk and were I to give you that take... it would simply choke you. I'll not do that.

Hi PP and thnaks for thinking of my welfare and you probably do NOT have a take ??? Silence is golden , they say , dan p

ProjectPeter
Mar 1st 2011, 02:13 AM
Hi PP and thnaks for thinking of my welfare and you probably do NOT have a take ??? Silence is golden , they say , dan p

You will learn, if you're here longer, that there is very little that I have no take on. You'll also learn, when I say you couldn't handle it... it is because you can't handle it. One that believes there is six gospels is one that hasn't even a basic grasp of Scripture but has listened to the teaching of a bunch of ignorant men who have created their own silly doctrine. I'll be patient with you up to a point... but only to a point. ;)

Amos_with_goats
Mar 1st 2011, 02:21 AM
You will learn, if you're here longer, that there is very little that I have no take on. You'll also learn, when I say you couldn't handle it... it is because you can't handle it. One that believes there is six gospels is one that hasn't even a basic grasp of Scripture but has listened to the teaching of a bunch of ignorant men who have created their own silly doctrine. I'll be patient with you up to a point... but only to a point. ;)

If I May.....

.... the challenge is to read the post above this one and be willing to understand the Love in which he speaks this.

He says this not to provoke you, but to call out the situation as it is. You decide what you do with this.

You KNOW I see the things you have shared here are wrong and dangerous.... however... I would greatly desire to see you fellowship here and participate in having your faith strengthened, as well as ministering to others.

Really. I Love you, and my brother does also. You will make your own decisions about what to do with this... and you can choose to see it a variety of ways. What I have spoken about this is truth... you will decide what to do with it.

Blessings,

Butch5
Mar 3rd 2011, 04:02 PM
Hi Firefighter anf thanks you and I study hard as I can , and here is my answer in Acts 9:17 and I will eventually get to the many verse that say the same thing .

There is a small word that in verse 17 and in many other passages where this word is NOT in the Greek text and that change the meaning of Acts 9:17 .

Ananais says " and be filled with ( the ) Holy Spirit .

The word NOT in the Greek text is the word " THE ".

In the Greek books that I have read , the Greek Article can be easliy checked and lets write what Acts 9:17 is saying .

" that thou mightest receive thy sight , and BE FILLED with the Holy Spirit ."

#1 , first , there is NO mention of water bin verse 17 !! How about that ?

#2 , Next , most gloss over that Saul is to be " FILLED with Holy Spirit !

#3 , Water has NEVER FILLED anyone with the Power of the Holy Spirit ?

#4 , We are told in Eph 5:18 , " but be filled by ( the ) Spirit as " the " has been added .

#5 , And in Acts 2:4 , the word " the " is not used and should read " and they were all filled with Holy Spirit " .

#6 , and when the Greek article is n0ot used , It is talking about the POWER of the Holy Spirit .

#7 , and that is what Saul was baptized with in verse 17 the , Power of the Holy Spirit and NOT the Indwelling of the Holy Sprit , since Saul received that in Vrese 6 .

#8 , The word Baptize/BAPTIZO , does not ALWAYS mean water and if it is water , THE CONTEXT uses Water .

And as I have said before , this is a big subject and many books have been written of this subject and I have 2 books on it , and it will come up again , from many different directions , dan p

You have a few issues here Dan. One, #8 the context does not need to state water. Water is typical method of baptism. It was practised in the beginning before there was a baptism in the Holy Spirit, therefore it is the understood method of Baptism. When John began baptizing people the didn't wonder, does John mean to use water or the Holy Spirit, it was understood to be water. So, any other type of baptism that is not the norm (Water) is qualified by an adjective describing that baptism, such as baptized in orange juice. It is not the norm that a person hearing the words baptism would immediately think they were being baptized in the Holy Spirit. So, If nothing is given specifying the type of baptism, it is considered to be water.

Another problem you have is that Paul indicates himself that the was baptized in water in Romans 6. There were Gentiles in the Roman church.

Romans 6:3-5 ( YLT )
are ye ignorant that we, as many as were baptized to Christ Jesus, to his death were baptized?
we were buried together, then, with him through the baptism to the death, that even as Christ was raised up out of the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life might walk.
For, if we have become planted together to the likeness of his death, so also we shall be of the rising again;

Paul says here "We", he includes himself. He says if we have be planted together to the likeness of his death. The word translated likeness is, "homoiōma", and means


Thayer’s Greek Definitions
G3667
ὁμοίωμα homoiōma Thayer Definition: 1) that which has been made after the likeness of something 1a) a figure, image, likeness, representation 1b) likeness, i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity

This obviously isn't the baptism in Holy Spirit because that is not representation. Water baptism is a representation. Also notice that an image or representation is something that can be seen. Baptism in the Holy Spirit cannot be seen, water baptism can be seen.

Then you have the historical evidence, the early church taught regeneration came through water baptism.

Butch5
Mar 3rd 2011, 04:07 PM
Uh... follow the discussion. He said that any time the word is used for baptizing in water... that is made clear in the context. There is no use of WATER in that entire passage. Not necessary because it is clear Scripturally that the early church certainly practiced baptism in water. That folks argue that still today is about as goofy an argument as there is in all the various doctrinal differences. There are tons of writings historically as well that shows this.

Yes, however, it is necessary to change the meaning of the Scriptures in order to support man made doctrines, just ask the Gnositcs. LOL.

notuptome
Mar 3rd 2011, 11:00 PM
Uh... follow the discussion. He said that any time the word is used for baptizing in water... that is made clear in the context. There is no use of WATER in that entire passage. Not necessary because it is clear Scripturally that the early church certainly practiced baptism in water. That folks argue that still today is about as goofy an argument as there is in all the various doctrinal differences. There are tons of writings historically as well that shows this.
Baptizo is to submerge like a sunken ship. It could hardly be water baptism unless the goal is to drown the participant. There is no regenerative benefit in water baptism only symbolic benefit. Bapto is the dipping used for water bapitsm.

There is one baptism in the Holy Spirit unto salvation followed by many fillings to minister in power for Gods glory.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Raybob
Mar 3rd 2011, 11:07 PM
Baptizo is to submerge like a sunken ship. It could hardly be water baptism unless the goal is to drown the participant. There is no regenerative benefit in water baptism only symbolic benefit. Bapto is the dipping used for water bapitsm.

There is one baptism in the Holy Spirit unto salvation followed by many fillings to minister in power for Gods glory.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
(Joh 1:32-33)

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
(Act 19:3-6)

Looks like John's baptism is in water, baptism (cleansing) of Jesus is the filling of the holy spirit.

dan p
Mar 4th 2011, 10:13 PM
Baptizo is to submerge like a sunken ship. It could hardly be water baptism unless the goal is to drown the participant. There is no regenerative benefit in water baptism only symbolic benefit. Bapto is the dipping used for water bapitsm.

There is one baptism in the Holy Spirit unto salvation followed by many fillings to minister in power for Gods glory.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hi notuptome , and you have also described what happened to Noah .

Noah stayed dry and the ones that were water baptized all drowned .

Rom 6:3-4 , does not say water and if it did , than water will cuase all to walk in the Newness of life amd I agree with the above post .

dan p

The Mighty Sword
Mar 4th 2011, 10:27 PM
John said in Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he(Jesus) that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

I'd say Jesus baptized Paul (Saul).

notuptome
Mar 5th 2011, 01:46 PM
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
(Joh 1:32-33)

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
(Act 19:3-6)

Looks like John's baptism is in water, baptism (cleansing) of Jesus is the filling of the holy spirit.
When Jesus appeared to the disciple in the upper room Jesus breathed on them the Holy Spirit. They were converted at this point. This was what we know as the baptism of the Holy Spirit whereby we are saved. Later at Pentacost these same disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit as evidenced by the Holy Spirit appearing as cloven tongues of fire on their heads. This was the promised filling that would power the disciples to be witnesses for Christ to all the world.

Johns baptism was a baptism unto repentance in preparation for the coming Messiah. Making the heart ready to receive what God was about to give. We find only one baptism of the Holy Spirit unto eternal life but many fillings or anointings of the Holy Spirit for ministry. Water baptism is always symbolic and not salvitic.

For the cause of Christ
Roger