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Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 10:35 AM
It is understood that every man is tempted, but what does it mean when it says "When lust has conceived"? :hmm:

When does temptation become sin?

Jas 1:14 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Jas 1:15 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

-SEEKING-
Mar 15th 2011, 10:51 AM
It is understood that every man is tempted, but what does it mean when it says "When lust has conceived"? :hmm:

When does temptation become sin?

It conceives once it has produced fruit in your body.

It becomes sin when you give into it.

VerticalReality
Mar 15th 2011, 12:08 PM
It is understood that every man is tempted, but what does it mean when it says "When lust has conceived"? :hmm:

When does temptation become sin?

Jas 1:14 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Jas 1:15 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Conception takes place when a person has entered into agreement with temptation and made a commitment toward bringing it to action. The same process can be seen in Judas in John 13:2 and John 13:27.

In John 13:2, Satan puts into the heart of Judas the things he would do. In verse 27, Satan now actually enters Judas' heart, and he made a commitment to carrying out the action of betraying Jesus. What began as mere thoughts implanted by Satan turned into agreement with those thoughts which brought forth action. We also see in Acts 5 that Peter proclaims to Ananias that Satan had filled his heart. I believe it was the same process as with Judas. I believe Satan tempted Ananias with thoughts of trying to deceive the Holy Spirit, and when Ananias came into agreement with these thoughts, Satan entered his heart and he was now committed toward bringing this conceived desire to outright sin.

VerticalReality
Mar 15th 2011, 12:10 PM
It conceives once it has produced fruit in your body.

It becomes sin when you give into it.

Fruit doesn't come until after conception. The desire is conceived first, and then it brings forth the fruit of sin.

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 01:14 PM
Conception takes place when a person has entered into agreement with temptation and made a commitment toward bringing it to action. The same process can be seen in Judas in John 13:2 and John 13:27.

In John 13:2, Satan puts into the heart of Judas the things he would do. In verse 27, Satan now actually enters Judas' heart, and he made a commitment to carrying out the action of betraying Jesus. What began as mere thoughts implanted by Satan turned into agreement with those thoughts which brought forth action. We also see in Acts 5 that Peter proclaims to Ananias that Satan had filled his heart. I believe it was the same process as with Judas. I believe Satan tempted Ananias with thoughts of trying to deceive the Holy Spirit, and when Ananias came into agreement with these thoughts, Satan entered his heart and he was now committed toward bringing this conceived desire to outright sin.

So with regards to the following scripture although temptation can lead to sin we do not have to yeid to it?

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 01:33 PM
It conceives once it has produced fruit in your body.

It becomes sin when you give into it.

If you have only been tempted but not yielded, then sin has not been commited is that right?

Firstfruits

VerticalReality
Mar 15th 2011, 02:45 PM
So with regards to the following scripture although temptation can lead to sin we do not have to yeid to it?

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Firstfruits

No, we don't have to yield. In fact, we are commanded to take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. Every sin if first preceded by thought. When thought is met with agreement (Conception), a commitment to bring forth sin has been made.

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 02:50 PM
"As the plant springs from, and could not be without, the seed, so every act of a man springs from the hidden seeds of thought, and could not have appeared without them"

"Act is the blossom of thought"

James Allen.

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 03:10 PM
No, we don't have to yield. In fact, we are commanded to take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. Every sin is first preceded by thought. When thought is met with agreement (Conception), a commitment to bring forth sin has been made.

Thanks VR,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 03:12 PM
"As the plant springs from, and could not be without, the seed, so every act of a man springs from the hidden seeds of thought, and could not have appeared without them"

"Act is the blossom of thought"

James Allen.

Are you saying that once we are tempted we have sinned? If not, please explain what you mean.

Thank you,

Firstfruits

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 03:14 PM
The sin is already in us when the thought of sin is conceived.

Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:............

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 03:18 PM
The sin is already in us when the thought of sin is conceived.

Do we not have to be tempted before the thought can be conceived? If there is no temptation how can sin come forth?

Firstfruits

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 03:21 PM
Do we not have to be tempted before the thought can be conceived? If there is no temptation how can sin come forth?

Firstfruits

No, satan has studied man for many years and knows our weakness he merely tempts us to act on them.

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 03:26 PM
No, satan has studied man for many years and knows our weakness he merely tempts us to act on them.

But if we do not act on those thoughts, have we sinned?

Every man is tempted.

Firstfruits

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 03:29 PM
But if we do not act on them those thoughts, have we sinned?

Firstfruits

Yes, Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And adultery is a sin.

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 03:33 PM
Yes, Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And adultery is a sin.

Does that apply to all temptation? Knowing that all men/women are tempted.

Firstfruits

-SEEKING-
Mar 15th 2011, 03:36 PM
If you have only been tempted but not yielded, then sin has not been commited is that right?

Firstfruits

That is correct.................

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 03:42 PM
Does that apply to all temptation? Knowing that all men/women are tempted.

Firstfruits

Use the analogy of what you call temptation to a thought before a sin is committed and you'll get you answer.

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 03:52 PM
Use the analogy of what you call temptation to a thought before a sin is committed and you'll get you answer.

Is the following how you understand temptation to be?

Temptation - something that seduces or has the quality to seduce
enticement
influence - a cognitive factor that tends to have an effect on what you do; "her wishes had a great influence on his thinking"
forbidden fruit - originally an apple from the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden; it is now used to refer to anything that is tempting but dangerous (as sexuality)
bait, come-on, lure, sweetener, hook - anything that serves as an enticement
allurement - attractiveness; "its allurement was its remoteness"

Firstfruits

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 03:53 PM
It doesn't change the fact the before a sin is committed the thought itself is sin, temptation is only an excuse to act on it.

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 04:00 PM
It doesn't change the fact the before a sin is committed the thought itself is sin, temptation is only an excuse to act on it.

I do not understand how you can have the thought to do something before the temptation.

Firstfruits

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 04:03 PM
I do not understand how you can have the thought to do something before the temptation.

Firstfruits

Then I suggest the book "As a man thinketh" by James Allen.

Here's a teaser:

Man is a growth by law, and not a creation by artifice, and cause and effect is as absolute and undeviating in the hidden realm of thought as in the world of visible and material things. A noble and Godlike character is not a thing of favor or chance, but is the natural result of continued effort in right thinking, the effect of long-cherished association with Godlike thoughts. An ignoble and bestial character, by the same process, is the result of the continued harboring of groveling thoughts.

Man is made or unmade by himself; in the armory of thought he forges the weapons by which he destroys himself. He also fashions the tools with which he builds for himself heavenly mansions of joy and strength and peace. By the right choice and true application of thought, man ascends to the Divine Perfection; by the abuse and wrong application of thought, he descends below the level of the beast. Between these two extremes are all the grades of character, and man is their maker and master.

Of all the beautiful truths pertaining to the soul which have been restored and brought to light in this age, none is more gladdening or fruitful of divine promise and confidence than this - that man is the master of thought, the molder of character, and maker and shaper of condition, environment, and destiny.

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 04:07 PM
Then I suggest the book "As a man thinketh" by James Allen.

Here's a teaser:

Man is a growth by law, and not a creation by artifice, and cause and effect is as absolute and undeviating in the hidden realm of thought as in the world of visible and material things. A noble and Godlike character is not a thing of favor or chance, but is the natural result of continued effort in right thinking, the effect of long-cherished association with Godlike thoughts. An ignoble and bestial character, by the same process, is the result of the continued harboring of groveling thoughts.

Man is made or unmade by himself; in the armory of thought he forges the weapons by which he destroys himself. He also fashions the tools with which he builds for himself heavenly mansions of joy and strength and peace. By the right choice and true application of thought, man ascends to the Divine Perfection; by the abuse and wrong application of thought, he descends below the level of the beast. Between these two extremes are all the grades of character, and man is their maker and master.

Of all the beautiful truths pertaining to the soul which have been restored and brought to light in this age, none is more gladdening or fruitful of divine promise and confidence than this - that man is the master of thought, the molder of character, and maker and shaper of condition, environment, and destiny.

So with regards to the following scripture how is temptation regarded?

Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

Why should we count it all joy?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 04:34 PM
It doesn't change the fact the before a sin is committed the thought itself is sin, temptation is only an excuse to act on it.

When a believer is tempted, is that not what satan is going around doing?

1 Pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Is he not trying to entice you to sin?

Firstfruits

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 04:37 PM
When a believer is tempted, is that not what satan is going around doing?

1 Pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Is he not trying to entice you to sin?

Firstfruits

He's trying to entice your weaknesses, he knew Jesus was hungry while fasting 40 days, what does he do??? tempts him with food, he knows we are flesh so he temps us with flesh.

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 04:40 PM
He's trying to entice your weaknesses, he knew Jesus was hungry while fasting 40 days, what does he do??? tempts him with food, he knows we are flesh so he temps us with flesh.

Do we have to yield?

Do we have to sin?

Firstfruits

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 04:42 PM
Do we have to yield?

Do we have to sin?

Firstfruits

It's a choice like anything else.

VerticalReality
Mar 15th 2011, 04:55 PM
It doesn't change the fact the before a sin is committed the thought itself is sin, temptation is only an excuse to act on it.

How do you believe Jesus was tempted?

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 05:05 PM
How do you believe Jesus was tempted?

Is this a serious question???

Why was Jesus tempted? While Jesus was God, He was also man. Jesus hungered as a man, thirsted as a man, suffered as a man, and ultimately died as a man. He was also tempted as a man, yet without sin.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.

Luke 4:2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry.

VerticalReality
Mar 15th 2011, 05:20 PM
Is this a serious question???

Why was Jesus tempted? While Jesus was God, He was also man. Jesus hungered as a man, thirsted as a man, suffered as a man, and ultimately died as a man. He was also tempted as a man, yet without sin.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.

Luke 4:2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry.

Yes, it was a serious question. Looking at Matthew 4, how do you believe these temptations came to Jesus? We know that Satan is not a physical being. Do you believe Satan spoke to Jesus in an audible voice that Jesus heard with His natural ear?

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 05:21 PM
Yes, it was a serious question. Looking at Matthew 4, how do you believe these temptations came to Jesus? We know that Satan is not a physical being. Do you believe Satan spoke to Jesus in an audible voice that Jesus heard with His natural ear?

No I'm assuming, sorry I can't take your question seriously.

VerticalReality
Mar 15th 2011, 05:24 PM
No I'm assuming, sorry I can't take your question seriously.

You're assuming what? I'm not following you here. Why can you not take the question seriously?

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 05:30 PM
You're assuming what? I'm not following you here. Why can you not take the question seriously?

If the message of temptation I posted is in Luke, how do you think the message was known???

I read scripture like you, the "I'm assuming" was sarcasm but the real answer is because I read it. Jesus told the disciple he was tempted that's why it's in scripture and that's why I can't take you question seriously, It's in scripture and I'm not assuming.

VerticalReality
Mar 15th 2011, 05:56 PM
If the message of temptation I posted is in Luke, how do you think the message was known???

I read scripture like you, the "I'm assuming" was sarcasm but the real answer is because I read it. Jesus told the disciple he was tempted that's why it's in scripture and that's why I can't take you question seriously, It's in scripture and I'm not assuming.

I'm still not certain of where your response is coming from. I'm not questioning whether or not Jesus was actually tempted. The word of God clearly says He was tempted. My question to you was how you think these temptations came to Jesus. What are your thoughts on that?

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 06:05 PM
I'm still not certain of where your response is coming from. I'm not questioning whether or not Jesus was actually tempted. The word of God clearly says He was tempted. My question to you was how you think these temptations came to Jesus. What are your thoughts on that?

Matthew 4

1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.


I don't think Jesus imagined any of it as the scripture are clear on how the temptation all transpired.

VerticalReality
Mar 15th 2011, 06:14 PM
Matthew 4

1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.


I don't think Jesus imagined any of it as the scripture are clear on how the temptation all transpired.

Yes, I agree, Jesus didn't imagine anything. My question is, do you think Satan speaks in an audible voice? In other words, did Jesus simply hear him with His natural ear?

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 08:37 PM
It's a choice like anything else.

So even though we may be tempted we can choose not to yield to the sin?

Firstfruits

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 08:40 PM
So even though we may be tempted we can choose not to yield to the sin?

Firstfruits

Of course all I'm saying sin is thought before it is action.

Firstfruits
Mar 15th 2011, 08:46 PM
Of course all I'm saying sin is thought before it is action.

Which is what this scripture is saying.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

The Mighty Sword
Mar 15th 2011, 08:48 PM
Which is what this scripture is saying.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

That deserves a rep.

Firstfruits
Mar 16th 2011, 09:17 AM
That deserves a rep.

Thanks The Mighty Sword,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Mar 16th 2011, 09:26 AM
Are the things mentioned in these scriptures regarded as temptations?

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God bless you!!!

Firstfruits

holyrokker
Mar 17th 2011, 04:07 AM
The Greek word translated in James 1:14-15 as "desire" is epithymia. It is also sometimes translated as "lust".

It's used in Luke 22:15 when Jesus said, "With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer"

I think in James 1:14 the proper translation is "desire". I think a better translation for it in verse 15 is "lust".

James 1:14-15 could be read as: "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."

Jesus was tempted. Jesus had desire. But Jesus was never deceived by His desire. He never yielded to them improperly, so those desires were never enflamed into lust.

We feed our desires, and they are quickly enflamed into lust, which becomes sin.

Firstfruits
Mar 17th 2011, 08:47 AM
The Greek word translated in James 1:14-15 as "desire" is epithymia. It is also sometimes translated as "lust".

It's used in Luke 22:15 when Jesus said, "With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer"

I think in James 1:14 the proper translation is "desire". I think a better translation for it in verse 15 is "lust".

James 1:14-15 could be read as: "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."

Jesus was tempted. Jesus had desire. But Jesus was never deceived by His desire. He never yielded to them improperly, so those desires were never enflamed into lust.

We feed our desires, and they are quickly enflamed into lust, which becomes sin.

Would you say then that if the desire to live or escape from that which is mentioned in the following is greater than the desire to hold out untill the end, even death, and we choose life rather than death is what is mentioned temptation?

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Mt 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Mt 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

God bless you!

Firstfruits