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View Full Version : Religion 'will be driven toward extinction' in 9 countries



moonglow
Mar 23rd 2011, 04:14 PM
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/23/religion-to-go-extinct-in-9-countries-experts-predict/comment-page-9/#comment-318657

Religion will all but vanish eventually from nine Western-style democracies, a team of mathematicians predict in a new paper based on census data stretching back 100 years.

It won't die out completely, but "religion will be driven toward extinction" in countries including Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the Netherlands, they say.

The mathematicians say it will also wither away in Austria, the Czech Republic, Finland and Switzerland.

They can't make a prediction about the United States because the U.S. census doesn't ask about religion, lead author Daniel Abrams told CNN. rest at the link.

Makes me think of this passage:

Luke 18
7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?

:hmm:

Athanasius
Mar 23rd 2011, 04:16 PM
They've been saying the same since the Enlightenment.

Saved7
Mar 23rd 2011, 04:27 PM
nah, where there is a void, Islam sees it as an opportunity to fill it, by using fear. And fear works wonders on the athiests and agnostics and other religions who have no faith in a God that promises heaven to those who believe in His Son.

Fenris
Mar 23rd 2011, 06:08 PM
Check the birthrates of those European countries. It's below the replacement rate (2.1 per couple). The lasped Christians/athiests/agnositics/whatever they are will die out.

The only people in Europe having kids in appreciable numbers are Muslims.

So religion won't die out in those countries. A new religion will take it's place.

I guess it makes me racist to point it out.... :hmm:

RabbiKnife
Mar 23rd 2011, 08:43 PM
Check the birthrates of those European countries. It's below the replacement rate (2.1 per couple). The lasped Christians/athiests/agnositics/whatever they are will die out.

The only people in Europe having kids in appreciable numbers are Muslims.

So religion won't die out in those countries. A new religion will take it's place.

I guess it makes me racist to point it out.... :hmm:

Or a mathmetician...

:D

teddyv
Mar 23rd 2011, 08:49 PM
Check the birthrates of those European countries. It's below the replacement rate (2.1 per couple). The lasped Christians/athiests/agnositics/whatever they are will die out.

The only people in Europe having kids in appreciable numbers are Muslims.

So religion won't die out in those countries. A new religion will take it's place.

I guess it makes me racist to point it out.... :hmm:

It's probably an arguable point since you are basically assuming a linear extrapolation which is probably a bit simplistic. Time will tell.

decrumpit
Mar 24th 2011, 10:22 PM
It's probably an arguable point since you are basically assuming a linear extrapolation which is probably a bit simplistic.

If only those pesky facts wouldn't get in the way of statistics!


Religion will all but vanish eventually from nine Western-style democracies, a team of mathematicians predict in a new paper based on census data stretching back 100 years.

It won't die out completely, but "religion will be driven toward extinction" in countries including Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the Netherlands, they say.

The mathematicians say it will also wither away in Austria, the Czech Republic, Finland and Switzerland.

They can't make a prediction about the United States because the U.S. census doesn't ask about religion, lead author Daniel Abrams told CNN. rest at the link.

Makes me think of this passage:

Luke 18
7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

They've actually known this for years, but future projections can be notorious. They probably only account for one variable - church attendance. Remember, Christianity used to be a wacky messianic Jewish movement that everyone said would die because it only attracted the dredges of society.

Turkey, Syria, Egypt, and North Africa used to be almost all Christian.

Africa and China were almost 100% non-Christian.

Europeans used to be non-Christian barbarians.

Missionaries do some amazing things!

Fenris
Mar 25th 2011, 10:12 AM
It's probably an arguable point since you are basically assuming a linear extrapolation which is probably a bit simplistic. Time will tell.

I don't know what you mean. As an example, Spain and Greece's birthrates are 1.1. That means the population halves with every generation. How is this "simplistic"?

teddyv
Mar 25th 2011, 03:18 PM
I don't know what you mean. As an example, Spain and Greece's birthrates are 1.1. That means the population halves with every generation. How is this "simplistic"?

Indications are that once immigrants are more firmly in their new culture, birthrates tend to decrease. You appear to assume that the Muslim population will remain culturally static. I just think you cannot extrapolate their birthrate as continuous when there are more variables.

Fenris
Mar 25th 2011, 03:21 PM
Indications are that once immigrants are more firmly in their new culture, birthrates tend to decrease.
Ah. And tell me, are Muslim immigrants "in their new culture"? Are they assimilating at all?

teddyv
Mar 25th 2011, 03:30 PM
Ah. And tell me, are Muslim immigrants "in their new culture"? Are they assimilating at all?

I would say it is impossible that they do not acquire some aspects of their new culture. Do you think they are not at all? You seem categorical that all are not.

moonglow
Mar 25th 2011, 03:55 PM
Ah. And tell me, are Muslim immigrants "in their new culture"? Are they assimilating at all?

"resistance is futile"

I think the Borg are much more frightening but then they don't exist...thank Heavens for that!

Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society' (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5621482.ece)


The Muslim population in Britain has grown by more than 500,000 to 2.4 million in just four years, according to official research collated for The Times.

The population multiplied 10 times faster than the rest of society, the research by the Office for National Statistics reveals. In the same period the number of Christians in the country fell by more than 2 million.

Experts said that the increase was attributable to immigration, a higher birthrate and conversions to Islam during the period of 2004-2008, when the data was gathered. They said that it also suggested a growing willingness among believers to describe themselves as Muslims because the western reaction to war and terrorism had strengthened their sense of identity.

Muslim leaders have welcomed the growing population of their communities as academics highlighted the implications for British society, integration and government resources.

David Coleman, Professor of Demography at Oxford University, said: “The implications are very substantial. Some of the Muslim population, by no means all of them, are the least socially and economically integrated of any in the United Kingdom ... and the one most associated with political dissatisfaction. You can't assume that just because the numbers are increasing that all will increase, but it will be one of several reasonable suppositions that might arise.”

Mmm well in doing more searching there seems to be an internet war going on about these stats...:hmm: Check out these links and video's:

http://4freedoms.ning.com/group/maps/forum/topics/will-pew-muslim-birth-rate
Will Pew Muslim birth rate study finally silence the “Eurabia” claim?

http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-watch/2011/1/27/muslim-birth-rate-expected-to-fall-over-next-two-decades-stu.html
Muslim birth rate expected to fall over next two decades, study shows
from Islamophobia Watch


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/01/27/muslim-birth-rate-expected-fall-decades-study-shows/#ixzz1HcwI7hWk
Pew Study: 1-in-4 People in the World Will be Muslim by 2030

:hmm: Very interesting. Ok since Muslims (as far as I know) don't use any kind of birth control...how can their birth rate drop?

Fenris
Mar 25th 2011, 04:06 PM
I would say it is impossible that they do not acquire some aspects of their new culture. Do you think they are not at all? You seem categorical that all are not.

That's what I'm hearing from people like Mark Steyn and Walter Laqueur.