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Pilgrimtozion
Apr 26th 2011, 01:40 PM
Recently, I ended up in a discussion with a family member concerning the Passover. She indicated that Communion the way we celebrate it is unbiblical - Jesus celebrated the Passover and commanded us to do that too in remembrance of Him, once a year during the feast of Passover. As an extension, we began talking about the Feasts and how they relate to the New Testament. I quoted Hebrews and argued that we no longer are required to celebrate the Feasts because we are under a new covenant; she argued that the Feasts, while part of the Law, are instituted by God eternally as the Law says and so also apply to us Christians.

What do you think? Should we still celebrate the Feasts? Why not?

Servant89
Apr 26th 2011, 01:51 PM
Recently, I ended up in a discussion with a family member concerning the Passover. She indicated that Communion the way we celebrate it is unbiblical - Jesus celebrated the Passover and commanded us to do that too in remembrance of Him, once a year during the feast of Passover. As an extension, we began talking about the Feasts and how they relate to the New Testament. I quoted Hebrews and argued that we no longer are required to celebrate the Feasts because we are under a new covenant; she argued that the Feasts, while part of the Law, are instituted by God eternally as the Law says and so also apply to us Christians.

What do you think? Should we still celebrate the Feasts? Why not?


Gal 4;9-11 tells you forget about the feasts.

Jesus said, as often as you meet, celebrate the lords supper.

Shalom

Butch5
Apr 26th 2011, 02:07 PM
Recently, I ended up in a discussion with a family member concerning the Passover. She indicated that Communion the way we celebrate it is unbiblical - Jesus celebrated the Passover and commanded us to do that too in remembrance of Him, once a year during the feast of Passover. As an extension, we began talking about the Feasts and how they relate to the New Testament. I quoted Hebrews and argued that we no longer are required to celebrate the Feasts because we are under a new covenant; she argued that the Feasts, while part of the Law, are instituted by God eternally as the Law says and so also apply to us Christians.

What do you think? Should we still celebrate the Feasts? Why not?

Actaully, it is my undertandig also that the feasts will be kept in the kingdom. I believe what she says has some merit, however, I cannot give you the Scriptrues as I've not studied this area in depth. Here is alink to site with some good auios on the feasts. Scroll down to the section, Feasts of the Lord.

http://www.oasischristianchurch.org/audio.html

quiet dove
Apr 26th 2011, 02:37 PM
The Feasts and the Temple were all given by God in order that the people would have a means of worship. It was not just a matter of God demanding worship but it was for the people that they would have a way to approach God. We now have a Way to approach God, through Christ Jesus. We now have a means to worship and seek His will, the Holy Spirit. We no longer have priest that approach Him for us, with the exception of our High Priest, Jesus Christ. We now no longer have men appointed to mediate because Jesus is our Mediator. So all the means to approach God is now through Jesus Christ and no longer the temple, priest, feast, and animal sacrifices. And the means/way of worship is no longer in the physical realm in terms of priest and temple, but as you know, it is spiritual, we approach the throne of God spiritually through Jesus, and indwelt by the Spirit.

In other words, the means for men to approach & worship God during the covenant of the Law was via the priest, feast, and sacrifices - and all was in the physical realm because God's presence came to them in the temple as opposed to the means of men to approach God under the New Covenant which is provided by and through Christ that we may enter in His presence spiritually at His throne in heaven. Not that God isn't around us because He is, but the means for men to approach, how and where they may approach.

As far as sacrifices go, as I said, God's presence was in the temple, and also with in the camps of the soldiers and so on. Thus the sacrificial system to make the people ritually and ceremonially clean because as we know, the animal sacrifices did not "cleans" the conscience or reunite men spiritually to their Creator, did not cleanse the soul/spirit.

Of course the Law and Feast were a teacher also. But God's provision for men to approach Him went from the physical to the spiritual. There is IMHO no reason or need to approach God via the means of a Covenant that is more physical when God has provided a means for us to approach spiritually, not only approach, but having through His Son, been reunited. Israel worshiped God in an earthly temple in their physical bodies. Through Christ Jesus, beleivers worship God in His heavenly temple in their spirit.

Not sure any of that came out well, so if not, ask and I will try to clarify. My heart understands more than my brain.

P.S. I do agree with Butch that there will be Feast kept in the Millennial Kingdom, but that does not really pertain to us at present and would make this post realllly loooooonger....lol

Butch5
Apr 26th 2011, 02:52 PM
Recently, I ended up in a discussion with a family member concerning the Passover. She indicated that Communion the way we celebrate it is unbiblical - Jesus celebrated the Passover and commanded us to do that too in remembrance of Him, once a year during the feast of Passover. As an extension, we began talking about the Feasts and how they relate to the New Testament. I quoted Hebrews and argued that we no longer are required to celebrate the Feasts because we are under a new covenant; she argued that the Feasts, while part of the Law, are instituted by God eternally as the Law says and so also apply to us Christians.

What do you think? Should we still celebrate the Feasts? Why not?

Here's another point The writer of Hebrews (Paul) said that the those things in the OT with the priest were symbols of what was taking place in the heavenly places.

Hebrews 9:1-28 ( KJV )
Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the showbread; which is called the sanctuary.
And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

According to the writer, the earthly tabernacle was a replica of the heavenly. God told Moses to make the tabernacle exactly as He said. He went so far as to put His spirit on the builders to guide them.

rejoice44
Apr 26th 2011, 03:22 PM
Recently, I ended up in a discussion with a family member concerning the Passover. She indicated that Communion the way we celebrate it is unbiblical - Jesus celebrated the Passover and commanded us to do that too in remembrance of Him, once a year during the feast of Passover. As an extension, we began talking about the Feasts and how they relate to the New Testament. I quoted Hebrews and argued that we no longer are required to celebrate the Feasts because we are under a new covenant; she argued that the Feasts, while part of the Law, are instituted by God eternally as the Law says and so also apply to us Christians.

What do you think? Should we still celebrate the Feasts? Why not?



Isaiah 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.


Why the Passover, why the feast? It was solely so that Israel would recognize the Messiah, the Saviour. Jesus is the Temple, Jesus is the Lamb, Jesus is the High Priest, Jesus is the unleavened bread.


Why would you want to keep that which portrays a future event, when that event has already occurred? Wouldn't it be a better testimony not to partake of these feasts, which indicate that the Messiah has never come?


Israel cannot keep the Passover, they have no Priest. Isn't it obvious that God does not desire Israel to keep the Passover? They have to have a Temple to cleanse themselves so that they can keep the Passover. There has been no Temple for that purpose for almost two thousand years, because Jesus is the Temple. They have had no priest for almost two thousand years, because Jesus is the High Priest. Jesus is the unleavened bread, and Israel has rejected that for almost two thousand years. The Word of God is Jesus, and Jesus is the bread of life, therefore the Word is the bread of life. Israel is to be eating the New Testament if they want to keep the feasts.


Attempting to keep the Passover and the feasts is putting a covering over Christ, as if he didn't exist, and helping to blind the eyes of Israel.

Amos_with_goats
Apr 26th 2011, 03:34 PM
Recently, I ended up in a discussion with a family member concerning the Passover. She indicated that Communion the way we celebrate it is unbiblical - Jesus celebrated the Passover and commanded us to do that too in remembrance of Him, once a year during the feast of Passover. As an extension, we began talking about the Feasts and how they relate to the New Testament. I quoted Hebrews and argued that we no longer are required to celebrate the Feasts because we are under a new covenant; she argued that the Feasts, while part of the Law, are instituted by God eternally as the Law says and so also apply to us Christians.

What do you think? Should we still celebrate the Feasts? Why not?

I find nothing in scripture that would prevent a person from observing the feasts if they were so inclined.

WRT Communion, I agree that the church may not necessarily have it all right... but (IMHO) communion is of GREATER utility then we give credit for.

1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

In the body, we have at times moved communion to the fellowship hall... I have celebrated it with a couple in their home when healing was being accomplished.. it is a wonderful, portable, act of obedience... and I LOVE it.

BroRog
Apr 26th 2011, 04:28 PM
Recently, I ended up in a discussion with a family member concerning the Passover. She indicated that Communion the way we celebrate it is unbiblical - Jesus celebrated the Passover and commanded us to do that too in remembrance of Him, once a year during the feast of Passover. As an extension, we began talking about the Feasts and how they relate to the New Testament. I quoted Hebrews and argued that we no longer are required to celebrate the Feasts because we are under a new covenant; she argued that the Feasts, while part of the Law, are instituted by God eternally as the Law says and so also apply to us Christians.

What do you think? Should we still celebrate the Feasts? Why not?Communion and the Passover are two different things though both are similar. Jesus was not celebrating Communion or the Eucharist at the Last Supper. He was celebrating the Passover.

The Passover is uniquely Jewish, not for Gentiles, and celebrates the Exodus of the Twelve Tribes from Egypt. According to Exodus 12:43 "no foreigner shall eat of it." This includes all Gentiles. As a Jew, Jesus celebrated the passover with other Jews and at the last supper Jesus ate the passover with his apostles. The Passover meal was not simply a gathering of people to eat food; it was intended to be pedagogical -- to remember the events of the Exodus and to contemplate the implications of these events in terms of God's project to create a nation of holy people.

As such, the Passover meal is eaten according to a script known as the Seder. (Seder means "order.") The script varied from rabbi to rabbi and household to household but they all seemed to share common elements among them. Typically, the head of the household would give the Seder. His job is to announce what each element of the meal represents in the story of the Exodus. For instance, at some point in the Seder, every one eats bitter herbs, which represents the bitterness of slavery while in Egypt.

On the night that Jesus died, he ate the Passover meal with his disciples, and Jesus performed the Seder for them. This time, however, Jesus places a new meaning on one of the elements of the Seder. As I understand it, at four different times during the Seder, the participants drink a cup of wine and the head of household announces the meaning each time. During this particular Seder, Jesus raises one of the cups (perhaps the third one) and gives it a new interpretation. Whereas the third cup typically represents God's promise "I will redeem", Jesus announces that from now on, his Jewish apostles and disciples were to understand this third cup to represent something else. From now on this cup represents "the new covenant in my blood." And Jesus instructions were "do this in remembrance of me."

It's important to understand that when Jesus says, "do this" his focus is on the cup of wine and the Seder meal. He isn't commanding them to eat the Seder. They were already doing that. Rather he was commanding them to change their interpretation of that particular cup in the meal such that this cup would be a memorial of his death on the cross and the implications his death would have on God's promise of a new covenant.

What about Gentiles?

The Gentiles were not obligated to eat the Passover Seder and in fact, they were not supposed to eat it. I believe that for this reason, Paul incorporated the third cup memorial into a Christian feast so that the Gentiles could also celebrate and memorialize the cross and the implications of the cross for all peoples. Christians don't celebrate the passover, but they do reenact the third cup memorial as borrowed from the Jewish Seder meal as reinterpreted by Jesus. When we take communion or the Eucharist, we are remembering what Jesus did for us on the cross and not only us, but our Jewish brethren too. Both Jews and Gentiles are united at the cross.

rejoice44
Apr 26th 2011, 07:22 PM
Communion and the Passover are two different things though both are similar. Jesus was not celebrating Communion or the Eucharist at the Last Supper. He was celebrating the Passover.

The Passover is uniquely Jewish, not for Gentiles, and celebrates the Exodus of the Twelve Tribes from Egypt. According to Exodus 12:43 "no foreigner shall eat of it." This includes all Gentiles.

While it is true that no foreigner or hireling could eat of the Passover Lamb, God made a way they could eat of the Lamb. The hired servant could become a bond servant by choice, thus allowed to eat of the Lamb.

Also in this verse (Exodus 12:44 But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.), a foreigner who was circumcised, and bought with a price could eat of the Passover Lamb.

I am a Gentile, who has been circumcised in the heart, and bought with a price. I am entitled to partake of the Passover Lamb, Jesus Christ.

Pilgrimtozion
Apr 26th 2011, 08:06 PM
I find nothing in scripture that would prevent a person from observing the feasts if they were so inclined.

WRT Communion, I agree that the church may not necessarily have it all right... but (IMHO) communion is of GREATER utility then we give credit for.

1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

In the body, we have at times moved communion to the fellowship hall... I have celebrated it with a couple in their home when healing was being accomplished.. it is a wonderful, portable, act of obedience... and I LOVE it.

Tried to read your post but in vain with the BP-Brown skin I have set... :) Just fyi...

BroRog
Apr 26th 2011, 08:37 PM
While it is true that no foreigner or hireling could eat of the Passover Lamb, God made a way they could eat of the Lamb. The hired servant could become a bond servant by choice, thus allowed to eat of the Lamb.

Also in this verse (Exodus 12:44 But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.), a foreigner who was circumcised, and bought with a price could eat of the Passover Lamb.

I am a Gentile, who has been circumcised in the heart, and bought with a price. I am entitled to partake of the Passover Lamb, Jesus Christ.I don't think so. Circumcision of the flesh is the requirement.

Ta-An
Apr 26th 2011, 08:47 PM
Tried to read your post but in vain with the BP-Brown skin I have set... :) Just fyi...

HINT: Highlight the text, then you can read it :idea:

Ta-An
Apr 26th 2011, 08:48 PM
I don't think so. Circumcision of the flesh is the requirement.

...requirement for what??:hmm:

rejoice44
Apr 26th 2011, 08:54 PM
No Jew in this present day is celebrating Passover, for they can not, for the ultimate Passover Lamb was sacrificed nearly two thousand years ago. Without a Temple, and without a Priest there can be no Passover. The Passover Lamb came, was sacrificed, and told us to take the bread and cup to remember him by, until he comes again.

It would seem that no Christian should be able to argue this point. The Jew that does not recognize Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour is lost and on his way to Hell, for "there is no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved".

That said, Israel is God's chosen people, and God has not yet completed his work with them. Israel is our salvation because through them, through their seed, we have obtained mercy.

Ta-An
Apr 26th 2011, 08:59 PM
Recently, I ended up in a discussion with a family member concerning the Passover. She indicated that Communion the way we celebrate it is unbiblical - Jesus celebrated the Passover and commanded us to do that too in remembrance of Him, once a year during the feast of Passover. The third cup of the Passover is the Cup of Redemption, This is the cup that was used by Christ to institute the Holy Communion.

Christ took the bread.... notice this is after they have taken part of the meal already, so one could only assume that it is the Afikomen He takes, and says : Take eat this is My Body...... 1Cor says .. 'often'


As an extension, we began talking about the Feasts and how they relate to the New Testament. I quoted Hebrews and argued that we no longer are required to celebrate the Feasts because we are under a new covenant; she argued that the Feasts, while part of the Law, are instituted by God eternally as the Law says and so also apply to us Christians. If we no longer celebrate the Feast (OF THE LORD) why do you keep the Passover (Easter)?:hmm: Not all the Feasts are fulfilled in Christ yet :D


What do you think? Should we still celebrate the Feasts? Why not? We celebrate the fulfilled feast :idea: Of which Pentecost is also one :)

Ta-An
Apr 26th 2011, 09:02 PM
No Jew in this present day is celebrating Passover, for they can not, for the ultimate Passover Lamb was sacrificed nearly two thousand years ago. Without a Temple, and without a Priest there can be no Passover. The Passover Lamb came, was sacrificed, and told us to take the bread and cup to remember him by, until he comes again.

It would seem that no Christian should be able to argue this point. The Jew that does not recognize Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour is lost and on his way to Hell, for "there is no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved".

That said, Israel is God's chosen people, and God has not yet completed his work with them.

Off cause they celebrate Passover :D, they just do not eat any Lamb during the Feast, they have a Shank-bone in memory of the Lamb that used to be offered in the Temple....
Israel is our salvation because through them, through their seed, we have obtained mercy. Strange way of looking at it rejoice44 :hmm:.... Christ is my Salvation :idea:

keck553
Apr 26th 2011, 10:03 PM
No Jew in this present day is celebrating Passover, .... Without a Temple, and without a Priest there can be no Passover.

Tell that to Daniel.

rejoice44
Apr 26th 2011, 10:38 PM
Tell that to Daniel.

You lost me. When did Daniel keep the Passover?

BroRog
Apr 27th 2011, 12:13 AM
...requirement for what??:hmm:What do you mean what? I've read your posts. You seem to know a lot about Jewish stuff. So I'm wondering why you are asking me about God's requirement that Abraham and his sons be circumcised.

BroRog
Apr 27th 2011, 12:14 AM
You lost me. When did Daniel keep the Passover?When did Daniel keep the passover? Huh?

mattlad22
Apr 27th 2011, 12:19 AM
What do you mean what? I've read your posts. You seem to know a lot about Jewish stuff. So I'm wondering why you are asking me about God's requirement that Abraham and his sons be circumcised.

Abraham and his sons are circumcised, through Christ, by the Holy Spirit of the will of God.
It actually has nothing to do with the male member, but the heart of men.

BroRog
Apr 27th 2011, 12:19 AM
No Jew in this present day is celebrating Passover, for they can not, for the ultimate Passover Lamb was sacrificed nearly two thousand years ago.Again I say, huh?


Without a Temple, and without a Priest there can be no Passover.Huh? When was the first Passover and who kept it and why and did they have a temple or a priesthood then?


The Passover Lamb came, was sacrificed, and told us to take the bread and cup to remember him by, until he comes again. It's a metaphor. You are confusing the metaphor with the actual thing.


It would seem that no Christian should be able to argue this point. The Jew that does not recognize Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour is lost and on his way to Hell, for "there is no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved".This is beside the point. Either keep the law of Moses or don't. But let's not confuse the issue by making stuff up.


That said, Israel is God's chosen people, and God has not yet completed his work with them. Israel is our salvation because through them, through their seed, we have obtained mercy.Huh?

BroRog
Apr 27th 2011, 12:21 AM
Abraham and his sons are circumcised, through Christ, by the Holy Spirit of the will of God.What? Where does it say that Abraham was circumcised through Christ? Why is everyone making stuff up all of a sudden? Is this April fool's day?

rejoice44
Apr 27th 2011, 01:23 AM
Off cause they celebrate Passover :D, they just do not eat any Lamb during the Feast, they have a Shank-bone in memory of the Lamb that used to be offered in the Temple....

They may celebrate the Passover, but they do not keep the Passover.

Does God hear the bleating of the sheep that were not killed for the Passover?

1Samuel 15:14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?


Saul was not given the option of how he would serve the Lord. God never gave Israel the option for the method of how they would keep the Passover. The lamb had to be slain and the blood put on the door posts. The Lamb was to be completely eaten, and if there was any leftover it was to be burnt. The person partaking of the Passover had to be ritually clean, meaning there had to be a Temple or Tabernacle, and a Priest.


No Jew has kept the Passover since the Temple was destroyed in AD 70.



Strange way of looking at it rejoice44 :hmm:.... Christ is my Salvation :idea:

Jesus Christ is the seed I was referring to.

rejoice44
Apr 27th 2011, 01:33 AM
When did Daniel keep the passover? Huh?

You fellas have me lost here. Just what is the point?

mattlad22
Apr 27th 2011, 02:01 AM
What? Where does it say that Abraham was circumcised through Christ? Why is everyone making stuff up all of a sudden? Is this April fool's day?

Circumcision is not done outwardly, but inwardly.
All who are His are circumcised inwardly.
Abraham is accounted to Him.
Abraham was circumcised through Christ.
All of Abrahams seed were blessed through his seed and circumcised in Abrahams seed.

""Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad."
Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

percho
Apr 27th 2011, 02:03 AM
Fifty days after the resurrection of Jesus 120 original sheep of Jesus were gathered together and the Holy Spirit came upon them and Peter began to preach. This was the day of firstfruits. Pentecost. Were the about three thousand of firstfruits that were added to the assembly of called out ones there because of this feast? Do you not think God gave this feast to Israel for this very purpose. That is to point to this period of time that that God is calling out from the Jew and Gentiles (nations) a people who have the firstfruits of the Spirit and for his name sake? See Romans 8:23, Romans 9:24 Acts 15:14.

Why should the church keep the feast of trumpets? Luke 11:1,2 Lord, teach us to pray, And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Acts 15:16 After this, (After the feast of first-fruits the calling out a people for his name.) I will return and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 1 Cor.15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Thess. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (With Jesus into the kingdom of God) 1 Thess. 4:16,17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (When the feast of trumpets, the next feast, is fulfilled we will be the children of the resurrection therefore the children of God therefore born again and as the song says, be saved to sin no more.)

Should the church keep this feast being this feast is for the church?

rejoice44
Apr 27th 2011, 02:27 AM
Again I say, huh?

Your right, I should have said keeping the Passover, and not celebrating the Passover, there is a big difference. No Jew has kept the Passover since the Temple was destroyed.


Huh? When was the first Passover and who kept it and why and did they have a temple or a priesthood then?

The first Passover was on the fourteenth day of the first month in the night that they left Egypt. The first time it was observed thereafter was when they reached the promised land forty years later, and they had a Tabernacle and a Priesthood.


It's a metaphor. You are confusing the metaphor with the actual thing.

Jesus is the real thing, the metaphor was the animal.


This is beside the point. Either keep the law of Moses or don't. But let's not confuse the issue by making stuff up.

Nobody is keeping the law, that is the point, it is all a farce.

percho
Apr 27th 2011, 04:04 PM
Fifty days after the resurrection of Jesus 120 original sheep of Jesus were gathered together and the Holy Spirit came upon them and Peter began to preach. This was the day of firstfruits. Pentecost. Were the about three thousand of firstfruits that were added to the assembly of called out ones there because of this feast? Do you not think God gave this feast to Israel for this very purpose. That is to point to this period of time that that God is calling out from the Jew and Gentiles (nations) a people who have the firstfruits of the Spirit and for his name sake? See Romans 8:23, Romans 9:24 Acts 15:14.

Why should the church keep the feast of trumpets? Luke 11:1,2 Lord, teach us to pray, And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Acts 15:16 After this, (After the feast of first-fruits the calling out a people for his name.) I will return and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 1 Cor.15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Thess. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (With Jesus into the kingdom of God) 1 Thess. 4:16,17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (When the feast of trumpets, the next feast, is fulfilled we will be the children of the resurrection therefore the children of God therefore born again and as the song says, be saved to sin no more.)

Should the church keep this feast being this feast is for the church?

This post begs for study and comment as to being according to the Word of God.

BroRog
Apr 28th 2011, 01:10 AM
You fellas have me lost here. Just what is the point?You said that Daniel didn't keep the passover. I'm asking where you got that idea.

BroRog
Apr 28th 2011, 01:12 AM
Saul was not given the option of how he would serve the Lord. God never gave Israel the option for the method of how they would keep the Passover. The lamb had to be slain and the blood put on the door posts. The Lamb was to be completely eaten, and if there was any leftover it was to be burnt. The person partaking of the Passover had to be ritually clean, meaning there had to be a Temple or Tabernacle, and a Priest.Where are you getting your information? Where does it say anything about being ritually clean to keep the passover?

BroRog
Apr 28th 2011, 01:15 AM
Jesus is the real thing, the metaphor was the animal.Not sure what you mean here. They are both real. Just because one thing is a metaphor for another thing doesn't mean it isn't real.


Nobody is keeping the law, that is the point, it is all a farce.Jewish people celebrate the Passover every year. So I don't know what you mean or what point you are trying to make.

Amos_with_goats
Apr 28th 2011, 03:32 AM
Wow,

Maybe I misses the great discussion about all the ways communion could be used in scriptural manners to glorify the Lord...?

BroRog
Apr 28th 2011, 03:36 AM
Wow,

Maybe I misses the great discussion about all the ways communion could be used in scriptural manners to glorify the Lord...?

Scriptural manners?

rejoice44
Apr 28th 2011, 11:31 AM
Where are you getting your information? Where does it say anything about being ritually clean to keep the passover?

Numbers 9:6 And there were certain men, who were defiled by the dead body of a man, that they could not keep the passover on that day: and they came before Moses and before Aaron on that day:

Just ask Fenris, it is the reason he gave for not being able to keep the Passover.

No red heifer, no priest, no temple.

rejoice44
Apr 28th 2011, 11:37 AM
Not sure what you mean here. They are both real. Just because one thing is a metaphor for another thing doesn't mean it isn't real.

The metaphor is depicting the real thing, when the real thing is in place there is no longer a need for a metaphor.


Jewish people celebrate the Passover every year. So I don't know what you mean or what point you are trying to make.The Jewish people may celebrate the Passover, but they do not keep the Passover as commanded by God. The Jewish people do not keep the law, though they do celebrate it. They cannot keep the law because the heart of the law is embedded in the Temple and the Priest, which they do not have, because they rejected the Messiah who is their Temple and their High Priest.

(Note-Fenris says is is God's fault that they cannot keep the law. I believe that Fenris feels like God has abandoned them for two thousand years, but in reality it is the Jews that have left God, when the rejected God's son.)

Pilgrimtozion
Apr 28th 2011, 01:08 PM
The metaphor is depicting the real thing, when the real thing is in place there is no longer a need for a metahpor.

I think you mean 'type' and 'antitype'. But I get what you are saying.

rejoice44
Apr 28th 2011, 01:21 PM
I think you mean 'type' and 'antitype'. But I get what you are saying.

Metaphor has a rather broad meaning, which should cover the comparison of a lamb and Jesus Christ.

Definitions of metaphor (n) (http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+metaphor&qpvt=metaphor+definition&FORM=DTPDIA)


met·a·phor [ méttə fàwr ] http://www.bing.com/s/playbtn.png (http://www.bing.com/caption/image/?bid=sfByG9V14PBlsA&bn=EDPG&FORM=DTPDIA)


implicit comparison: the use to describe somebody or something of a word or phrase that is not meant literally but by means of a vivid comparison expresses something about him, her, or it, e.g. saying that somebody is a snake
figurative language: all language that involves figures of speech or symbolism and does not literally represent real things
symbol: one thing used or considered to represent another



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
metaphor - definition and examples of metaphors - figures of speech (http://grammar.about.com/od/mo/g/metaphorterm.htm)


Definition: A figure of speech in which an implied comparison is made between two unlike things that actually have something in common. Adjective: metaphorical.
grammar.about.com/od/mo/g/metaphorterm.htm

A lamb does have something in common with Jesus Christ. A lamb gets led to the slaughter, and so was Jesus Christ sacrificed by the Father for our sins.

Pilgrimtozion
Apr 28th 2011, 01:44 PM
Metaphor has a rather broad meaning, which should cover the comparison of a lamb and Jesus Christ.

Definitions of metaphor (n) (http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+metaphor&qpvt=metaphor+definition&FORM=DTPDIA)


met·a·phor [ méttə fàwr ] http://www.bing.com/s/playbtn.png (http://www.bing.com/caption/image/?bid=sfByG9V14PBlsA&bn=EDPG&FORM=DTPDIA)


implicit comparison: the use to describe somebody or something of a word or phrase that is not meant literally but by means of a vivid comparison expresses something about him, her, or it, e.g. saying that somebody is a snake
figurative language: all language that involves figures of speech or symbolism and does not literally represent real things
symbol: one thing used or considered to represent another



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
metaphor - definition and examples of metaphors - figures of speech (http://grammar.about.com/od/mo/g/metaphorterm.htm)


Definition: A figure of speech in which an implied comparison is made between two unlike things that actually have something in common. Adjective: metaphorical.
grammar.about.com/od/mo/g/metaphorterm.htm

A lamb does have something in common with Jesus Christ. A lamb gets led to the slaughter, and so was Jesus Christ sacrificed by the Father for our sins.

Problem being that a metaphor never actually refers to something real, whereas the Passover lamb was a real animal in a real Passover in a real culture. That is why the proper term is a type, not a metaphor.

BroRog
Apr 28th 2011, 02:55 PM
Problem being that a metaphor never actually refers to something real, whereas the Passover lamb was a real animal in a real Passover in a real culture. That is why the proper term is a type, not a metaphor.I'm sorry, where did you get the idea that a metaphor doesn't refer to something real?

Pilgrimtozion
Apr 28th 2011, 03:00 PM
I'm sorry, where did you get the idea that a metaphor doesn't refer to something real?

I got it from my mind. :)

Amos_with_goats
Apr 28th 2011, 03:28 PM
Wow,

Maybe I misses the great discussion about all the ways communion could be used in scriptural manners to glorify the Lord...?



Scriptural manners?

1 Corinthians 11:23-26

Institution of the Lord’s Supper

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.

I know that communion fits into a narrow nich in most churches.

In the op, it was suggested that EVEN the practice may be too often.

I have seen the Lord use communion for various purposes... what have you seen?

Ta-An
Apr 28th 2011, 03:43 PM
[U][B]

I have seen the Lord use communion for various purposes... what have you seen?[/COLOR][/FONT]
Healing, hope, salvation and so much more :yes:

Amos_with_goats
Apr 28th 2011, 03:47 PM
I copied the last 2 posts off and posted them in a new thread so as not to de-rail this one.

The new thread is here;

Communion: Outside the box...? (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/224339-Communion-Outside-the-box...)

Pilgrimtozion
Apr 28th 2011, 03:54 PM
I copied the last 2 posts off and posted them in a new thread so as not to de-rail this one.

The new thread is here;

Communion: Outside the box...? (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/224339-Communion-Outside-the-box...)

And to lay this thread to rest: No priesthood, no temple, a replaced Old Covenant = no feasts for the NT Believer unless they have a specific desire to hold to Jewish customs.

BroRog
Apr 28th 2011, 04:18 PM
Numbers 9:6 And there were certain men, who were defiled by the dead body of a man, that they could not keep the passover on that day: and they came before Moses and before Aaron on that day:

Just ask Fenris, it is the reason he gave for not being able to keep the Passover.

No red heifer, no priest, no temple.Thanks. I appreciate it.

percho
Apr 28th 2011, 09:54 PM
I gather that none of you, that is zero, think the feasts God gave Israel have any thing to do with the church. I disagree because of the following which I have already posted twice without a comment from anyone. Show me from the word of God where the following in in error.

Fifty days after the resurrection of Jesus 120 original sheep of Jesus were gathered together and the Holy Spirit came upon them and Peter began to preach. This was the day of firstfruits. Pentecost. Were the about three thousand of firstfruits that were added to the assembly of called out ones there because of this feast? Do you not think God gave this feast to Israel for this very purpose. That is to point to this period of time that that God is calling out from the Jew and Gentiles (nations) a people who have the firstfruits of the Spirit and for his name sake? See Romans 8:23, Romans 9:24 Acts 15:14.

Was the feast of firstfruits given to show that there would be those who would receive the firstfruits of the Spirit that came about after Christ our passover was killed for us and we were unleavened by his death and resurrection?

Why should the church keep the feast of trumpets? Luke 11:1,2 Lord, teach us to pray, And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Acts 15:16 After this, (After the feast of first-fruits the calling out a people for his name.) I will return and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 1 Cor.15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Thess. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (With Jesus into the kingdom of God) 1 Thess. 4:16,17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (When the feast of trumpets, the next feast, is fulfilled we will be the children of the resurrection therefore the children of God therefore born again and as the song says, be saved to sin no more.)

Should the church keep this feast being this feast is for the church?

rejoice44
Apr 28th 2011, 11:57 PM
I gather that none of you, that is zero, think the feasts God gave Israel have any thing to do with the church. I disagree because of the following which I have already posted twice without a comment from anyone. Show me from the word of God where the following in in error.

Fifty days after the resurrection of Jesus 120 original sheep of Jesus were gathered together and the Holy Spirit came upon them and Peter began to preach. This was the day of firstfruits. Pentecost. Were the about three thousand of firstfruits that were added to the assembly of called out ones there because of this feast? Do you not think God gave this feast to Israel for this very purpose. That is to point to this period of time that that God is calling out from the Jew and Gentiles (nations) a people who have the firstfruits of the Spirit and for his name sake? See Romans 8:23, Romans 9:24 Acts 15:14.

Was the feast of firstfruits given to show that there would be those who would receive the firstfruits of the Spirit that came about after Christ our passover was killed for us and we were unleavened by his death and resurrection?

Why should the church keep the feast of trumpets? Luke 11:1,2 Lord, teach us to pray, And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Acts 15:16 After this, (After the feast of first-fruits the calling out a people for his name.) I will return and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 1 Cor.15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Thess. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (With Jesus into the kingdom of God) 1 Thess. 4:16,17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (When the feast of trumpets, the next feast, is fulfilled we will be the children of the resurrection therefore the children of God therefore born again and as the song says, be saved to sin no more.)

Should the church keep this feast being this feast is for the church?

As far as I can tell, most if not all of these feasts require a priest and a temple if you are to keep it as ordained by God. Celebrating these feasts are one thing, but if you are trying to please God, and you are going to do it your way rather than the way God ordained it, will God be pleased? Saul tried to do things his own way, and God removed his spirit from Saul.

We are not under law, but if the Jew feels he is under the law he is required to keep it the way God ordained it.

mattlad22
Apr 29th 2011, 12:14 AM
Greetings,

"Should the church keep this feast being the feast is for the church"

If you want, but if you think its strictly required to be pleasing to God, your setting up a law of requirement beyond Christ and thats dangerous. "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" if the church is redeemed to the Son and we are in Him, we are already well pleasing to the Father through the Son.

Grace to you, peace be with you in the Father and the Son.

percho
Apr 29th 2011, 01:45 AM
Under the broad umbrella called (Christianity) are these called ordinances (laws) Baptism, The Lord's Supper? Are we under the law? BTW I am not sure of the answer to all this. I do believe the Lord's Supper is a continuance of passover, yet neither was passover a holy convocation feast day, however Paul did say being Christ our passover was sacrificed for us, let us keep the feast. Well the feast was the feast of unleavened bread and had a holy convocation on the 15th and 21st. Course this is the end of that verse, "not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth." And I believe Christ to be the true bread from heaven, so help me with how it is to be kept. I think, and ya'll let me know what you think of this, that feast was seven days meaning completeness in some way. In verse 7 it says, "as ye are unleavened." The first holy convocation day for sins that are past see Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; that unleavened us yet we still sin therefore for continuance We must, "1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." til death or the return of Jesus. In other words it is a seven day feast for it covers a span of time.

Please comment.

rejoice44
Apr 29th 2011, 11:14 AM
Under the broad umbrella called (Christianity) are these called ordinances (laws) Baptism, The Lord's Supper? Are we under the law? BTW I am not sure of the answer to all this. I do believe the Lord's Supper is a continuance of passover, yet neither was passover a holy convocation feast day, however Paul did say being Christ our passover was sacrificed for us, let us keep the feast. Well the feast was the feast of unleavened bread and had a holy convocation on the 15th and 21st. Course this is the end of that verse, "not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth." And I believe Christ to be the true bread from heaven, so help me with how it is to be kept. I think, and ya'll let me know what you think of this, that feast was seven days meaning completeness in some way. In verse 7 it says, "as ye are unleavened." The first holy convocation day for sins that are past see Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; that unleavened us yet we still sin therefore for continuance We must, "1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." til death or the return of Jesus. In other words it is a seven day feast for it covers a span of time.

Please comment.

We keep the feasts by being immersed in Jesus Christ, He is the fulfillment of all things. Jesus Christ is all in all, the unleavened bread, the Passover lamb, and our living water. We are to live and breathe Christ, not on special days, but every day we live. This is how we celebrate.