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hearmenow
May 12th 2011, 07:59 AM
2Timmothy2: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself

Is this saying that if we are fallowing his word and faithful but do not believe that G_D will not deny us?
:B
That makes no since to me. Some one could be keeping all commandments fallow Jesus but not believe he is G_D and get into heaven

Firstfruits
May 12th 2011, 09:57 AM
2Timmothy2: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself

Is this saying that if we are fallowing his word and faithful but do not believe that G_D will not deny us?
:B
That makes no since to me. Some one could be keeping all commandments fallow Jesus but not believe he is G_D and get into heaven

I believe it is saying that Jesus is always faithful, if we do not believe we cannot be faithful. Jesus said if we honour Jesus we must also honour God.

Firstfruits

nzyr
May 12th 2011, 01:37 PM
It also means that even if people don't believe in Jesus, he still exists. And as Firstfruits said he is always faithful.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (Hebrews 13:8)

Dani H
May 13th 2011, 06:52 PM
2Timmothy2: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself

Is this saying that if we are fallowing his word and faithful but do not believe that G_D will not deny us?
:B
That makes no since to me. Some one could be keeping all commandments fallow Jesus but not believe he is G_D and get into heaven

That entire chapter is an encouragement to continue following Christ and to teach others, to study Scripture, to avoid foolish debates and to focus on what actually matters, the foundational things, and thereby becoming firmly grounded in faith and thereby being able to teach others.

Where exactly do you make this about heaven or hell?

Be very careful to not pull Scripture out of context and build a doctrine around one verse. That's very dangerous. Context, context, CONTEXT.

hearmenow
May 14th 2011, 05:08 AM
I am not trying to pull verse out of context just did not whant to post entire chapter, and I know believeing is required for salvation that is why this verse confused me and I am having hard time tying it in with rest of chapter.

Bandit
May 14th 2011, 03:07 PM
2Timmothy2: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself

Is this saying that if we are fallowing his word and faithful but do not believe that G_D will not deny us?
:B
That makes no since to me. Some one could be keeping all commandments fallow Jesus but not believe he is G_D and get into heaven


... I know believeing is required for salvation that is why this verse confused me and I am having hard time tying it in with rest of chapter.


Hello hearmenow,

I think this verse is misconstrued by many. Here is the local context from 2nd Tim. 2:11-13.

It is a trustworthy statement:

"For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him;
If we endure, we shall also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He aslo will deny us;
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

I would recommend connecting verse 13 with verse 12. Those who deny Christ will be denied by Him (in comparison to those who endure). Verse 13 should be taken to say that Christ will remain faithful to what He has said He will do: that being that those who endure will be with Him, while those who fall away will not. Verse 13 is saying that Christ will remain faithful to what He has said He will do: He will bless those who remain faithful, and reject those who reject Him. He cannot deny what He has said He will do. If we become sinful and fall away, He will remain faith to what He has said He will do to such persons; to fail to do so would be to deny Himself.

petepet
May 14th 2011, 03:29 PM
2Timmothy2: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself

Is this saying that if we are fallowing his word and faithful but do not believe that G_D will not deny us?
:B
That makes no since to me. Some one could be keeping all commandments fallow Jesus but not believe he is G_D and get into heaven

This series of statements is opened with the words, 'Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may receive salvation in Christ Jesus with its eternal glory'. In other words they are addressed to believers.

The particular verse is not speaking of saving faith, but of having cofidence in Christ in particular circumstances. Sometimes we who believe in Christ may have periods of doubt, or may behave in a way that reveals a lack of faith. The point that Paul is making is that Christ will still be faithful to us because He is our Saviour. It is not we who maintain our salvation but Christ the Saviour. And He always remains faithful to His own (John 10.27-29; 1 Corinthians 1.8-9; Philippians 1.6) even when sometimes they are lacking in faith.

There is a great difference between having periods when we lack confidence in Christ and actually denying Him positively. No one who is truly elect will finally deny Christ (although like Peter did they might do it temporarily out of fear).

RollTide21
May 16th 2011, 08:56 PM
Hello hearmenow,

I think this verse is misconstrued by many. Here is the local context from 2nd Tim. 2:11-13.

It is a trustworthy statement:

"For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him;
If we endure, we shall also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He aslo will deny us;
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

I would recommend connecting verse 13 with verse 12. Those who deny Christ will be denied by Him (in comparison to those who endure). Verse 13 should be taken to say that Christ will remain faithful to what He has said He will do: that being that those who endure will be with Him, while those who fall away will not. Verse 13 is saying that Christ will remain faithful to what He has said He will do: He will bless those who remain faithful, and reject those who reject Him. He cannot deny what He has said He will do. If we become sinful and fall away, He will remain faith to what He has said He will do to such persons; to fail to do so would be to deny Himself.That verse means what it says.

Verse 13 doesn't all of a sudden require an explanation. The verse clearly states that God is faithful even when we are faithless because He cannot deny Himself in us. It is a reassurance that He is strong when we are weak. This is a declaration wholly separate from saying, if we DENY Him, He will deny us.

nzyr
May 16th 2011, 09:23 PM
Yes we need faith.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. (1 John 5:4)