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ProjectPeter
Jun 1st 2011, 11:45 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/01/obama-administration-calls-indianas-ban-planned-parenthood-illegal/?test=latestnews


Gotta love government strong arm tactics!

Saved7
Jun 2nd 2011, 12:52 AM
Good for Indiana! It's so nice to see some, though few, states taking a stand against the sins our govt seems to be forcing upon us.

Diggindeeper
Jun 2nd 2011, 12:57 AM
To me, this does not make a lick of sense!

This, from the article:
Medicaid is a federal-state partnership that nationwide now covers more than 60 million low-income children and parents, seniors, including most nursing home residents, and disabled people of any age.

Federal law prohibits using any federal funds, including Medicaid funding, to provide abortions.

But the White House Administration is doing this?

The Obama administration has declared Indiana's new law that withholds some public funding for Planned Parenthood of Indiana illegal and is warning other states that some of their Medicaid funding will be in jeopardy too if they pass legislation barring any qualified health care provider.

In a letter sent to Indiana's Medicaid director, Medicaid Administrator Donald M. Berwick said Indiana's plan will improperly bar beneficiaries from receiving services.

BUT, the law was passed in Indiana because: Indiana's law bars Planned Parenthood offices in the state from receiving federal money because it provides abortions, among other services.

And silly me! I was under the impression that was the only way that Obama's Health Care passed in the first place...because it WOULD NOT FUND ABORTIONS!

Is it ME who is feebleminded or the present Administration??????????

It just seems like talking out of both sides of their mouth or something.

Liquid Tension
Jun 2nd 2011, 02:20 AM
And silly me! I was under the impression that was the only way that Obama's Health Care passed in the first place...because it WOULD NOT FUND ABORTIONS!

Is it ME who is feebleminded or the present Administration??????????

It just seems like talking out of both sides of their mouth or something.


Easy answer.........it's not you.

RevLogos
Jun 2nd 2011, 02:30 AM
Is it ME who is feebleminded or the present Administration??????????



Neither actually. If I may borrow from Forrest Gump: Evil is as evil does.

Reynolds357
Jun 2nd 2011, 02:33 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/01/obama-administration-calls-indianas-ban-planned-parenthood-illegal/?test=latestnews


Gotta love government strong arm tactics!

I have been fussing about Obama since he was candidate Obama. Glad to know everyone else is finally figuring him out as well.

Saved7
Jun 2nd 2011, 03:29 AM
To me, this does not make a lick of sense!

This, from the article:
Medicaid is a federal-state partnership that nationwide now covers more than 60 million low-income children and parents, seniors, including most nursing home residents, and disabled people of any age.

Federal law prohibits using any federal funds, including Medicaid funding, to provide abortions.

But the White House Administration is doing this?

The Obama administration has declared Indiana's new law that withholds some public funding for Planned Parenthood of Indiana illegal and is warning other states that some of their Medicaid funding will be in jeopardy too if they pass legislation barring any qualified health care provider.

In a letter sent to Indiana's Medicaid director, Medicaid Administrator Donald M. Berwick said Indiana's plan will improperly bar beneficiaries from receiving services.

BUT, the law was passed in Indiana because: Indiana's law bars Planned Parenthood offices in the state from receiving federal money because it provides abortions, among other services.

And silly me! I was under the impression that was the only way that Obama's Health Care passed in the first place...because it WOULD NOT FUND ABORTIONS!

Is it ME who is feebleminded or the present Administration??????????

It just seems like talking out of both sides of their mouth or something.

Nope, it's not you, they've been talking out of both sides of their mouth among other parts of their body this whole time.

Hunter121
Jun 2nd 2011, 03:51 AM
To me, this does not make a lick of sense!

This, from the article:
Medicaid is a federal-state partnership that nationwide now covers more than 60 million low-income children and parents, seniors, including most nursing home residents, and disabled people of any age.

Federal law prohibits using any federal funds, including Medicaid funding, to provide abortions.

But the White House Administration is doing this?

The Obama administration has declared Indiana's new law that withholds some public funding for Planned Parenthood of Indiana illegal and is warning other states that some of their Medicaid funding will be in jeopardy too if they pass legislation barring any qualified health care provider.

In a letter sent to Indiana's Medicaid director, Medicaid Administrator Donald M. Berwick said Indiana's plan will improperly bar beneficiaries from receiving services.

BUT, the law was passed in Indiana because: Indiana's law bars Planned Parenthood offices in the state from receiving federal money because it provides abortions, among other services.

And silly me! I was under the impression that was the only way that Obama's Health Care passed in the first place...because it WOULD NOT FUND ABORTIONS!

Is it ME who is feebleminded or the present Administration??????????

It just seems like talking out of both sides of their mouth or something.

Ditto...............

Cornflake
Jun 2nd 2011, 04:18 AM
And silly me! I was under the impression that was the only way that Obama's Health Care passed in the first place...because it WOULD NOT FUND ABORTIONS!

They're not talking about funding abortions.

The problem is that Indiana bans PP from receiving federal funds at all. However, under Medicaid rules, people should be able to go to PP and have their services covered - save abortions.

Obama isn't arguing that abortions should be funded by Medicaid, he's arguing that visits to PP for everything else (which is over 90% of their business iirc) should be covered as they're a qualified health care provider under Medicaid rules.

Liquid Tension
Jun 2nd 2011, 09:24 AM
Nope, it's not you, they've been talking out of both sides of their mouth among other parts of their body this whole time.

Quote of the day!!!! :D

ProjectPeter
Jun 2nd 2011, 01:36 PM
They're not talking about funding abortions.

The problem is that Indiana bans PP from receiving federal funds at all. However, under Medicaid rules, people should be able to go to PP and have their services covered - save abortions.

Obama isn't arguing that abortions should be funded by Medicaid, he's arguing that visits to PP for everything else (which is over 90% of their business iirc) should be covered as they're a qualified health care provider under Medicaid rules. It's just as political for Obama as it is for the Indiana folks. Obama would allow it paid if he could but he can't so it isn't. If he ever got enough shift in Congress and Senate then he would. Indiana has plenty of politics involved in their decision too no doubt about that. But let's not be blind in this. PP has a major goal in their little lives. Have women abort babies. Period. They may do screenings for this and that and all that other stuff that they do. But they get a girl in there... they aren't talking about helping her find and adoptive home for a delivered baby. They will make sure she understands the best action is an abortion.

moonglow
Jun 2nd 2011, 04:50 PM
I think they give out birth control pills to women/girls too. Other then that and abortions I am not really sure what other services they are providing.

It does say this in the article:
Planned Parenthood operates 28 clinics in Indiana, four of which perform abortions. The state chapter has said federal funding makes up about 20 percent of its annual budget. So only four actually do abortions. I wonder what the others do? I guess I need to research and see what they provide besides that.


In recent days, HHS has come under lobbying from both Democrats and Republicans on the issue. Last week, a group of Democratic senators called on HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to inform Indiana that its ban didn't comply with federal law.

In response, eight Republican members of Indiana's congressional delegation sent Sebelius a letter calling on her to support the state's law.

Sebelius won't help. She was our governor for a number of years while Dr. Tiller ran his abortion clinic here in Kansas. She is Catholic but protected him and his work. :( So everyone was pretty surprised she did this, being Catholic...:(

God bless

Cornflake
Jun 2nd 2011, 05:27 PM
It's just as political for Obama as it is for the Indiana folks. Obama would allow it paid if he could but he can't so it isn't. If he ever got enough shift in Congress and Senate then he would. Indiana has plenty of politics involved in their decision too no doubt about that. But let's not be blind in this. PP has a major goal in their little lives. Have women abort babies. Period. They may do screenings for this and that and all that other stuff that they do. But they get a girl in there... they aren't talking about helping her find and adoptive home for a delivered baby. They will make sure she understands the best action is an abortion. Obama has never made any secret of being pro choice. I'm sure he'd prefer to allow use of federal funds for abortion, I'm pretty sure he'd say he would - it's not news he's pro choice, he had like a 100% rating from NARAL, iirc.

However, that's not what this is about at all and what you're saying about PP is just wrong. Abortion is a tiny percentage of what they do. As above, many of their facilities don't even offer it. This is about Indiana blocking proper federal funding. They're not going to win this, it's a silly stand to take, given they had to know they wouldn't win it when they started. It's politics.

Bandit
Jun 2nd 2011, 05:42 PM
...
It does say this in the article: So only four [PP sites in Indiana] actually do abortions. I wonder what the others do? I guess I need to research and see what they provide besides that.
...

I would suggest that that they funnel girls to the other four.

ProjectPeter
Jun 2nd 2011, 05:44 PM
Obama has never made any secret of being pro choice. I'm sure he'd prefer to allow use of federal funds for abortion, I'm pretty sure he'd say he would - it's not news he's pro choice, he had like a 100% rating from NARAL, iirc.

However, that's not what this is about at all and what you're saying about PP is just wrong. Abortion is a tiny percentage of what they do. As above, many of their facilities don't even offer it. This is about Indiana blocking proper federal funding. They're not going to win this, it's a silly stand to take, given they had to know they wouldn't win it when they started. It's politics.

I said I doubted it was ten percent as you claimed. Keep in mind though... just the four clinics that do abortion... that accounts for 10 percent of the monies for their entire state organization... they're doing a lot of them and rest assured that drives them to get those girls over to one of them there four clinics. So no.... I am not "just wrong".

As to it being just politics... if you ACTUALLY read what I said... that was my point. On both sides of that debate. And less we lose sight of what really ultimately matters most... PP wants women to abort. Period. Period. And in case that emphasis isn't noted... period again.

ProjectPeter
Jun 2nd 2011, 05:46 PM
I would suggest that that they funnel girls to the other four.

I would guarantee you that they do and as many as they can get to go there.

Bandit
Jun 2nd 2011, 05:50 PM
... Abortion is a tiny percentage of what they [PP] do. ...

You mean they are killing many more people in ways other than abortion! I would bet that in God's eyes, the abortions they perform are far more than a "tiny fraction of what they do".

Jeanne D
Jun 2nd 2011, 06:23 PM
Here is a link about Margaret Sanger the found of Planned Parenthood. These are her own quotes.

http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm


Jeanne

keck553
Jun 2nd 2011, 06:27 PM
As romantic as the roaring 20's seem to be, it is not romantic being under the thumb of Chicago-like mob tactics nullifying states rights.

I guess that Netanyahu lecture about soverignty went through one of his ears ear and right out the other.

Cornflake
Jun 2nd 2011, 06:30 PM
I said I doubted it was ten percent as you claimed. Keep in mind though... just the four clinics that do abortion... that accounts for 10 percent of the monies for their entire state organization... they're doing a lot of them and rest assured that drives them to get those girls over to one of them there four clinics. So no.... I am not "just wrong".

As to it being just politics... if you ACTUALLY read what I said... that was my point. On both sides of that debate. And less we lose sight of what really ultimately matters most... PP wants women to abort. Period. Period. And in case that emphasis isn't noted... period again. I just looked - abortion accounts for 3% of PP's services. Three percent. So not period, that's what they want, no. All PP offices do not exist to funnel women to get abortions.

Regardless, yes, this is just politics, as Indiana knows it can't do this and the WH response is hardly unexpected. I'm pretty sure Indiana expected it.


You mean they are killing many more people in ways other than abortion! I would bet that in God's eyes, the abortions they perform are far more than a "tiny fraction of what they do".

Of course it's a bigger deal in God's eyes, and it's a big deal period. But hyperbolic falsehoods get us noplace and make others dismiss what we say when they know it's not factual. They do not just kill people. They perform abortions. They also help a lot of people. That's not not true because they perform abortions.

Reynolds357
Jun 2nd 2011, 06:34 PM
Obama has never made any secret of being pro choice. I'm sure he'd prefer to allow use of federal funds for abortion, I'm pretty sure he'd say he would - it's not news he's pro choice, he had like a 100% rating from NARAL, iirc.

However, that's not what this is about at all and what you're saying about PP is just wrong. Abortion is a tiny percentage of what they do. As above, many of their facilities don't even offer it. This is about Indiana blocking proper federal funding. They're not going to win this, it's a silly stand to take, given they had to know they wouldn't win it when they started. It's politics.

Planned parenthood performs abortions and refers people to have abortions. I could not care less what else they do or do not do, that is enough for me to classify them as evil.

ProjectPeter
Jun 2nd 2011, 06:35 PM
I just looked - abortion accounts for 3% of PP's services. Three percent. So not period, that's what they want, no. All PP offices do not exist to funnel women to get abortions.

Regardless, yes, this is just politics, as Indiana knows it can't do this and the WH response is hardly unexpected. I'm pretty sure Indiana expected it.



Of course it's a bigger deal in God's eyes, and it's a big deal period. But hyperbolic falsehoods get us noplace and make others dismiss what we say when they know it's not factual. They do not just kill people. They perform abortions. They also help a lot of people. That's not not true because they perform abortions.They personally handle 3% (most offices for PPD do not do clinical work but are tied in with the local or near local clinics that do) but rest assured, as has been proven many times hence all the fuss politically about PPD, they look to abortion as soon as a girl goes in there and mentions that she is pregnant. And yes... period. Goodness... it isn't even blindness that would cause someone to argue that point.

teddyv
Jun 2nd 2011, 08:21 PM
They personally handle 3% (most offices for PPD do not do clinical work but are tied in with the local or near local clinics that do) but rest assured, as has been proven many times hence all the fuss politically about PPD, they look to abortion as soon as a girl goes in there and mentions that she is pregnant. And yes... period. Goodness... it isn't even blindness that would cause someone to argue that point.

A sincere question. You state it is proven that PP counsels abortion to every pregnant women who enters their door - can you point me in some direction for that?

ProjectPeter
Jun 2nd 2011, 08:29 PM
A sincere question. You state it is proven that PP counsels abortion to every pregnant women who enters their door - can you point me in some direction for that?

Why? Ten reports of it? Twenty? A hundred? Your view is your view and no matter what would be provided... you will hold to your view. There have been many, especially recently, hidden camera investigations in various states over various issues (mostly underage kids) and it's clear. As well... that's what the people are about. You're smarter than the average bulb in the hall and thus I figure you know what their goal is and what it means. I'm not going to go looking for the various reports and whatnot on it when you can google it just as easy as I can. Do a search in here and if you feel like wading through... most of those have been discussed a number of times. Bet your were part of more than one or two of those discussions. So... my point leads to Google or the forum Search Thread option. ;)

ProjectPeter
Jun 2nd 2011, 08:33 PM
Let me add too... I have unfortunately counseled many young ladies over the years (real time... over the net it would be probably countless) that visited PPD and followed their leading and direction. In that time I have been over a lot of this nation. It's not just a problem in one group of offices and their counsel is to abort. Again... period. NEVER have I heard a woman in counsel tell me how the PPD folks really tried to push me to adopt but I feel like crap because I didn't listen and aborted the child! No minister I figure has that testimony either.

Reynolds357
Jun 2nd 2011, 08:37 PM
Let me add too... I have unfortunately counseled many young ladies over the years (real time... over the net it would be probably countless) that visited PPD and followed their leading and direction. In that time I have been over a lot of this nation. It's not just a problem in one group of offices and their counsel is to abort. Again... period. NEVER have I heard a woman in counsel tell me how the PPD folks really tried to push me to adopt but I feel like crap because I didn't listen and aborted the child! No minister I figure has that testimony either.

On this we agree.

ProjectPeter
Jun 2nd 2011, 08:43 PM
Hey... afterall... 1 out of 3 women in the US have an abortion by the time they are 40 or 45 (around that age somewhere). Translated... "no big deal guys... everyone does it."

Reynolds357
Jun 2nd 2011, 08:46 PM
Hey... afterall... 1 out of 3 women in the US have an abortion by the time they are 40 or 45 (around that age somewhere). Translated... "no big deal guys... everyone does it."
That is awful when you really take time to think about it. One in three women in this nation commit murder during their lifetime. The Church just sits by and sleeps while this happens. "The sleeping giant" needs a wake up call.

teddyv
Jun 2nd 2011, 08:48 PM
Why? Ten reports of it? Twenty? A hundred? Your view is your view and no matter what would be provided... you will hold to your view. There have been many, especially recently, hidden camera investigations in various states over various issues (mostly underage kids) and it's clear. As well... that's what the people are about. You're smarter than the average bulb in the hall and thus I figure you know what their goal is and what it means. I'm not going to go looking for the various reports and whatnot on it when you can google it just as easy as I can. Do a search in here and if you feel like wading through... most of those have been discussed a number of times. Bet your were part of more than one or two of those discussions. So... my point leads to Google or the forum Search Thread option. ;)

Geez. Sorry I asked.

I realize I probably have a reputation around here for being skeptical but in this instance you are assuming too much.

Jeanne D
Jun 2nd 2011, 08:58 PM
Ok, these MAY be rumors, but I'd heard that former PP workers ( not all) said that they(PP) gave out faulty birth control, so that the girls would get abortions?

Has anyone else heard this????

Jeanne

ProjectPeter
Jun 2nd 2011, 09:02 PM
Geez. Sorry I asked.

I realize I probably have a reputation around here for being skeptical but in this instance you are assuming too much.

I'd of told whomever asked to Google it. So hey! Seriously... it's been discussed multiple times in here and it was all over the news not that long ago. You're pretty up on stuff so figure you remember all that stuff and again... I've ministered to way to many young ladies and even older ones that have dealt with PPD over the last many years now. All the ad's, and the apologetics, mean nothing much to me. I've heard the same story so many times from folks all over the country and much of that before the internet.. so they're not just making it up. I've not much use for PPD because they have a specific goal when a pregnant girl walks in... and abortion is it. There's been plenty spoken and written about it... shouldn't be to hard to find plenty on the topic out there.

ProjectPeter
Jun 2nd 2011, 09:03 PM
Ok, these MAY be rumors, but I'd heard that former PP workers ( not all) said that they(PP) gave out faulty birth control, so that the girls would get abortions?

Has anyone else heard this????

Jeanne

Doubt it. Sounds like rumor material and that's about as good as twice used toilet paper. :)

Jeanne D
Jun 2nd 2011, 09:07 PM
Doubt it. Sounds like rumor material and that's about as good as twice used toilet paper. :)

Ok then. :)

Jeanne

Liquid Tension
Jun 2nd 2011, 09:13 PM
Doubt it. Sounds like rumor material and that's about as good as twice used toilet paper. :)

I may need to sig this :) Permission???

ProjectPeter
Jun 2nd 2011, 09:50 PM
Certainly... all my stuff is free for the taking. :)

Diggindeeper
Jun 2nd 2011, 10:01 PM
Certainly... all my stuff is free for the taking. :)

He can even have your used toilet paper for the taking?

EarlyCall
Jun 2nd 2011, 10:29 PM
They're not talking about funding abortions.

The problem is that Indiana bans PP from receiving federal funds at all. However, under Medicaid rules, people should be able to go to PP and have their services covered - save abortions.

Obama isn't arguing that abortions should be funded by Medicaid, he's arguing that visits to PP for everything else (which is over 90% of their business iirc) should be covered as they're a qualified health care provider under Medicaid rules.

You know, actually, from what I've heard from a woman that was very much involved with PP, they couldn't stay in business if they didn't do abortions. So, 90% of their business is not abortions... perhaps, but it isn't 90% of their revenue! PP are baby killers. Plain and simple and they have no defense before God and I'm not going to try and give them one either.

keck553
Jun 2nd 2011, 11:18 PM
A sincere question. You state it is proven that PP counsels abortion to every pregnant women who enters their door - can you point me in some direction for that?

Greed knows no boundaries. PP lives off the revenue from abortions. Lowering them is not in their best financial interests.

You know, the Bible teaches us that at some point, God gives people over to their sin.

keck553
Jun 2nd 2011, 11:26 PM
I just looked - abortion accounts for 3% of PP's services. Three percent.

Nazi defendant to judge: "Look, I only killed 30 or 40 of them Joooos. That's just .00067%! .00067 percent.

Indiana has a moral duty to protect even one life. They have a much higher moral duty to protect life than to cave in to BHO's strongarm tactics for a few bucks.

RevLogos
Jun 2nd 2011, 11:57 PM
I just looked - abortion accounts for 3% of PP's services. Three percent. So not period, that's what they want, no. All PP offices do not exist to funnel women to get abortions.



I disagree the 3% number is meaningful. It mixes apples and oranges, abortions mixed in with any other service, like a pap test, or handing out condoms. More interesting would be what percent of all abortions in the US are done by PP.

There are about 0.8 million abortions in the US each year, which has been fairly stable. In 2006 PP performed 289,750 abortions. That's about 36% of all abortions. But what isn't clear from their annual report is what fraction of this is being done outside of the US. So it could be less.

It also isn't possible to determine how much of their income comes from abortions. Problem is, PP gets a third of its income from "Government Grants and Contracts" (your tax dollars), and their annual report doesn't say where that goes. It also gets 26% of its income from "Private Contributions".

Amos_with_goats
Jun 3rd 2011, 12:11 AM
There is a Truth that transcends politics.

'Enlightened' Christians will give account for their support of those who sacrifice, and support sacrifice of the unborn.

Let us stop fooling ourselves.

Galatians 6:7

New King James Version (NKJV)

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.

steelerbabe
Jun 3rd 2011, 12:24 AM
Found this article:

New Planned Parenthood Report: Record Abortions Done in 2009



A new report the Planned Parenthood national abortion business recently released shows the embattled agency did more abortions in 2009 than it has done in any prior year. The report also shows it providing fewer pregnant women with non-abortion services.

Planned Parenthood Federation of America recently posted on its website what it calls its service numbers for 2009. This document, dated February 2011, shows Planned Parenthood affiliates nationwide did 332,278 surgical abortions or abortions using the dangerous RU 486 abortion during in 2009.

That’s 2.5 percent more abortions than the September 2010 report the abortion business released covering 2008 and showing it doing 324,008 abortions, which was a 6.1 percent increase over the 305,310 abortions it did in 2007. The 2007 figure was itself a 5.3 percent increase over the 289,750 abortions Planned Parenthood did in 2006.

With approximately 1.2 million abortions done annually in the United States via surgical abortions or the mifepristone abortion drug, Planned Parenthood has increased its share of the abortion industry to 27.6 percent of all abortions done annually.

Planned Parenthood has been on the receiving end of significant negative publicity related to undercover videos showing its officials helping investigators posing as sex traffickers obtain abortions and STD testing for underage girls who are victims of the sex trade. The abortion business has defended itself in part by attempting to show that abortions constitute a small percentage of its overall services.

However, the new numbers make it more clear that women who are pregnant who come to Planned Parenthood receive only abortion services rather than help and support.

The new document the abortion organization posted shows Planned Parenthood provided prenatal services to merely 7,021 women and referred only 977 women for adoption services. These numbers were a 25 percent drop in prenatal care clients and a whopping 59 percent decline in adoption referrals from the 2,405 adoption referrals in 2008. The abortion business helped only 9,433 prenatal clients in 2008, down substantially from the 11,000 women it provided prenatal care to in 2007 — showing health care given to pregnant woman has fallen substantially over the years.

As a result, 97.6 percent of pregnant women going to Planned Parenthood are sold abortions while less than 2.4 percent of pregnant women received non-abortion services including adoption and prenatal care. That’s up from 96.5 percent of pregnant women going to Planned Parenthood getting abortions in 2008.

“Despite its protestations that abortion is only a small part of its services,” said Jim Sedlak, vice president of the pro-life group American Life League, “Planned Parenthood has increased its number of abortions for 15 straight years. During that time, it has gone from committing 9.3 percent of all abortions in the United States to committing 27.5 percent.”

Sedlak also noted that the new Planned Parenthood report shows it now does 340 abortions for every one adoption referral and 47 abortions for every one prenatal care client. He said Planned Parenthood’s own records now show 5,320,095 surgical and medical abortions done at Planned Parenthood centers from 1970 through the end of 2009.

“We estimate that the income from abortion accounts for 40 percent of its annual clinic income,” he said, adding that former Planned Parenthood clinics director Abby Johnson has testified repeatedly to the pressure local affiliates receive to do more abortions because Planned Parenthood makes more money from abortions than non-abortion services.

“When all the current numbers are taken together with the revelations from PP’s own former employees,” Sedlak concluded, “it is clear that Planned Parenthood is about killing human beings in the womb for a profit. It is an absolute outrage that American taxpayers have been funding such a group and we ask all members of Congress to take steps now to end this funding

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/02/23/new-planned-parenthood-report-record-abortions-done-in-2009/

Diggindeeper
Jun 3rd 2011, 01:29 AM
Innocent little babies should not be considered disposable. Like McDonald's cups and napkins. Or trash in our garbage cans.

This one sin alone, not counting all the other evils allowed in America today, is more than enough to cause the Judgment of God to be poured out on this once great nation.

Babies can't defend themselves. Only the cruel and heartless can kill little babies.

And then, women and girls who have abortions must live with this on their conscience until they take their last breath, once they realize they have killed their baby.

It is truly an atrocity and a stench in the nostrils of Almighty God. Who will stop the insanity? Dear Lord........

I say, go for it, Indiana. And may other states do the same.

Cornflake
Jun 3rd 2011, 04:45 AM
Ok, these MAY be rumors, but I'd heard that former PP workers ( not all) said that they(PP) gave out faulty birth control, so that the girls would get abortions?

Has anyone else heard this????

That's just silly - and pretty impossible. They get their birth control from the same factories everyone else does and if they tampered with medication or gave out something that was faulty, they'd be sued into oblivion, dr.s and nurses would have their licenses revoked, etc. Again, abortion is three percent of what they do. It'd make no sense economically either.


I'd of told whomever asked to Google it. So hey! Seriously... it's been discussed multiple times in here and it was all over the news not that long ago.

Are you talking about the Breitbart/James whatsisname scam? Because that was a scam, like every other scam they've run. They're liars.


Nazi defendant to judge: "Look, I only killed 30 or 40 of them Joooos. That's just .00067%! .00067 percent.

Indiana has a moral duty to protect even one life. They have a much higher moral duty to protect life than to cave in to BHO's strongarm tactics for a few bucks.

This is my problem with this. Does Indiana want to defund hospitals? Because they too often provide abortions. The only ones that generally won't are Catholic hospitals. Does Indiana want to take any dr. who does perform abortions (and offer other services) off Medicare approval? I'm guessing they do not.

It's like Christians who get all upset about a gay couple moving in down the street but have never been upset by the nice heterosexual, unmarried couple who live on the same block.

Indiana isn't taking a stand, it's a political gambit. They KNOW they can't defund a licensed provider. They're just making hay. In addition, as 97% of PP's business is general stuff not having to do with abortion, especially at the majority of offices in Indiana that don't even have abortion services, they're messing with poorer women's legitimate needs - for political purposes.

ProjectPeter
Jun 3rd 2011, 01:05 PM
That's just silly - and pretty impossible. They get their birth control from the same factories everyone else does and if they tampered with medication or gave out something that was faulty, they'd be sued into oblivion, dr.s and nurses would have their licenses revoked, etc. Again, abortion is three percent of what they do. It'd make no sense economically either.



Are you talking about the Breitbart/James whatsisname scam? Because that was a scam, like every other scam they've run. They're liars.



This is my problem with this. Does Indiana want to defund hospitals? Because they too often provide abortions. The only ones that generally won't are Catholic hospitals. Does Indiana want to take any dr. who does perform abortions (and offer other services) off Medicare approval? I'm guessing they do not.

It's like Christians who get all upset about a gay couple moving in down the street but have never been upset by the nice heterosexual, unmarried couple who live on the same block.

Indiana isn't taking a stand, it's a political gambit. They KNOW they can't defund a licensed provider. They're just making hay. In addition, as 97% of PP's business is general stuff not having to do with abortion, especially at the majority of offices in Indiana that don't even have abortion services, they're messing with poorer women's legitimate needs - for political purposes.

No... that is not what I was speaking of.

keck553
Jun 3rd 2011, 06:34 PM
In addition, as 97% of PP's business is general stuff not having to do with abortion.

So just murdering a few is OK as long as one murders less people than they help. Sorry, I can't find that direction on my moral compass.

Liquid Tension
Jun 3rd 2011, 06:53 PM
Found this article:

New Planned Parenthood Report: Record Abortions Done in 2009



A new report the Planned Parenthood national abortion business recently released shows the embattled agency did more abortions in 2009 than it has done in any prior year. The report also shows it providing fewer pregnant women with non-abortion services.

Planned Parenthood Federation of America recently posted on its website what it calls its service numbers for 2009. This document, dated February 2011, shows Planned Parenthood affiliates nationwide did 332,278 surgical abortions or abortions using the dangerous RU 486 abortion during in 2009.

That’s 2.5 percent more abortions than the September 2010 report the abortion business released covering 2008 and showing it doing 324,008 abortions, which was a 6.1 percent increase over the 305,310 abortions it did in 2007. The 2007 figure was itself a 5.3 percent increase over the 289,750 abortions Planned Parenthood did in 2006.

With approximately 1.2 million abortions done annually in the United States via surgical abortions or the mifepristone abortion drug, Planned Parenthood has increased its share of the abortion industry to 27.6 percent of all abortions done annually.

Planned Parenthood has been on the receiving end of significant negative publicity related to undercover videos showing its officials helping investigators posing as sex traffickers obtain abortions and STD testing for underage girls who are victims of the sex trade. The abortion business has defended itself in part by attempting to show that abortions constitute a small percentage of its overall services.

However, the new numbers make it more clear that women who are pregnant who come to Planned Parenthood receive only abortion services rather than help and support.

The new document the abortion organization posted shows Planned Parenthood provided prenatal services to merely 7,021 women and referred only 977 women for adoption services. These numbers were a 25 percent drop in prenatal care clients and a whopping 59 percent decline in adoption referrals from the 2,405 adoption referrals in 2008. The abortion business helped only 9,433 prenatal clients in 2008, down substantially from the 11,000 women it provided prenatal care to in 2007 — showing health care given to pregnant woman has fallen substantially over the years.

As a result, 97.6 percent of pregnant women going to Planned Parenthood are sold abortions while less than 2.4 percent of pregnant women received non-abortion services including adoption and prenatal care. That’s up from 96.5 percent of pregnant women going to Planned Parenthood getting abortions in 2008.

“Despite its protestations that abortion is only a small part of its services,” said Jim Sedlak, vice president of the pro-life group American Life League, “Planned Parenthood has increased its number of abortions for 15 straight years. During that time, it has gone from committing 9.3 percent of all abortions in the United States to committing 27.5 percent.”

Sedlak also noted that the new Planned Parenthood report shows it now does 340 abortions for every one adoption referral and 47 abortions for every one prenatal care client. He said Planned Parenthood’s own records now show 5,320,095 surgical and medical abortions done at Planned Parenthood centers from 1970 through the end of 2009.

“We estimate that the income from abortion accounts for 40 percent of its annual clinic income,” he said, adding that former Planned Parenthood clinics director Abby Johnson has testified repeatedly to the pressure local affiliates receive to do more abortions because Planned Parenthood makes more money from abortions than non-abortion services.

“When all the current numbers are taken together with the revelations from PP’s own former employees,” Sedlak concluded, “it is clear that Planned Parenthood is about killing human beings in the womb for a profit. It is an absolute outrage that American taxpayers have been funding such a group and we ask all members of Congress to take steps now to end this funding

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/02/23/new-planned-parenthood-report-record-abortions-done-in-2009/


Game, set, match here folks.

Sickening.......nothing more I can come up with that would pass the filter bypass here.

Cornflake
Jun 3rd 2011, 08:50 PM
So just murdering a few is OK as long as one murders less people than they help. Sorry, I can't find that direction on my moral compass.

Ok, so I assume you want hospitals to have their funding cut as well then?

Diggindeeper
Jun 3rd 2011, 10:00 PM
Ok, so I assume you want hospitals to have their funding cut as well then?

You approve of abortions, Cornflake?

There is a universe size difference in HOSPITALS and ABORTION CLINICS. Abortions are murder, regardless of where the baby is killed. By your reasoning, even back alley abortion rooms should receive funding, as long as they bandage someone up. (That would come under your heading of 'other services.')

Cornflake
Jun 3rd 2011, 10:35 PM
You approve of abortions, Cornflake?

There is a universe size difference in HOSPITALS and ABORTION CLINICS. Abortions are murder, regardless of where the baby is killed. By your reasoning, even back alley abortion rooms should receive funding, as long as they bandage someone up. (That would come under your heading of 'other services.')

No.

Of course there are differences between hospirals and abortion clinics. No one is talking about abortion clinics (places that basically just do abortions), we're talking about Planned Parenthood in Indiana - most of their offices there don't even perform abortions and of the few that do, abortions are a tiny percentage of their business - kind of like hospitals.

Regardless, the argument is moot, Indiana will get smacked down by a court, as they surely know they will.

Diggindeeper
Jun 3rd 2011, 10:39 PM
I don't think they will be smacked down.

We shall see.

RevLogos
Jun 3rd 2011, 10:59 PM
Of course there are differences between hospirals and abortion clinics. No one is talking about abortion clinics (places that basically just do abortions), we're talking about Planned Parenthood in Indiana - most of their offices there don't even perform abortions and of the few that do, abortions are a tiny percentage of their business - kind of like hospitals.



Kind of like hospitals? What other hospital in Indiana aborts 15 babies every day? And that doesn't include the 14,000 "Emergency contraceptives" given out.

Cornflake
Jun 3rd 2011, 11:22 PM
Kind of like hospitals? What other hospital in Indiana aborts 15 babies every day? And that doesn't include the 14,000 "Emergency contraceptives" given out. I don't know the statistics for hospitals in Indiana. Hospitals (save Catholic ones, in general, though some will in some circumstance) perform abortions. People are calling for barring people from being able to go to PP for general services BECAUSE and only because PP also performs abortions in some of their locations. Hence, it seems logical to me that those people would also want people barred from going to hospitals, as they also perform abortions. Are we now arguing that 15 abortions is too many, but if hospitals perform 3 a day that's ok? Where's the line exactly?

Emergency contraception is available over the counter in any pharmacy to anyone over 17. I'd wager Walmarts in Indiana dispense more emergency contraception than PP does. Do you want people not able to go to pharmacies too?

awestruckchild
Jun 4th 2011, 02:26 AM
Obama has never made any secret of being pro choice. I'm sure he'd prefer to allow use of federal funds for abortion, I'm pretty sure he'd say he would - it's not news he's pro choice, he had like a 100% rating from NARAL, iirc.

However, that's not what this is about at all and what you're saying about PP is just wrong. Abortion is a tiny percentage of what they do. As above, many of their facilities don't even offer it. This is about Indiana blocking proper federal funding. They're not going to win this, it's a silly stand to take, given they had to know they wouldn't win it when they started. It's politics.

I don't believe it is EVER a silly stand to take to defend the orphans.
I think it is wise.
I don't know the men who have taken this stand to defend the orphans of abortion, but I don't think for them that it is just politics.
I think it is wise fear of God and an understanding of the warnings of the prophets.

awestruckchild
Jun 4th 2011, 02:35 AM
Here is a link about Margaret Sanger the found of Planned Parenthood. These are her own quotes.

http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm


Jeanne

Oh my goodness! She was so hateful!!

awestruckchild
Jun 4th 2011, 02:37 AM
I just looked - abortion accounts for 3% of PP's services. Three percent. So not period, that's what they want, no. All PP offices do not exist to funnel women to get abortions.

Regardless, yes, this is just politics, as Indiana knows it can't do this and the WH response is hardly unexpected. I'm pretty sure Indiana expected it.



Of course it's a bigger deal in God's eyes, and it's a big deal period. But hyperbolic falsehoods get us noplace and make others dismiss what we say when they know it's not factual. They do not just kill people. They perform abortions. They also help a lot of people. That's not not true because they perform abortions.

I think they are lying when they say it's only 3%.
I don't trust a single word they say.

awestruckchild
Jun 4th 2011, 02:43 AM
He can even have your used toilet paper for the taking?


OH!!!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
EEEWW!!

awestruckchild
Jun 4th 2011, 02:51 AM
Cornflake,
What do you mean the Breitbart hidden recordings are a scam?
They somehow scammed those PP workers into saying what they said?
They forced them to say what they said?
They tricked them somehow into saying what they said?

Diggindeeper
Jun 4th 2011, 03:00 AM
Cornflake,
What do you mean the Breitbart hidden recordings are a scam?
They somehow scammed those PP workers into saying what they said?
They forced them to say what they said?
They tricked them somehow into saying what they said?

Wasn't that the same ones who got the truth out about ACORN???? I think its the same people. Pretty smart, and those hidden recordings sure brought changes in lots of ACORN shenanigans! People woke up and took notice.

RevLogos
Jun 4th 2011, 03:02 AM
I think they are lying when they say it's only 3%.
I don't trust a single word they say.

Yea, its an invented statistic designed for propaganda purposes. Anyone can see through it.

Here's how they do it. Suppose I ran an abortion clinic and all I did was abortions. But in doing an abortion, I might do a Pap test, HIV test, STD test and of course, a pregnancy test. I've now added up 5 services so I can claim abortions are only 20% of my operation!

So basically they needed to divide the number of abortions by the biggest number they could come up with. Doing so lumps abortions as a service with things like handing out condoms. So while they are the largest abortion provider in the US, and in Indiana performing over 50% of all abortions in that state, they can claim to those who will listen, that its only 3% of their services.

Pure propaganda. Buy hey, it seems to work.

Of course, Margaret Sanger was an eugenicist. The method isn't as important as the goals. Anything that cut down the birth rates of "inferior classes" was a good thing. In addition to birth control, she also advocated for forced sterilization. Blacks, immigrants, Jews and other groups were all considered "human weeds".

Pure evil. But hey, no one reads that stuff.

Cornflake
Jun 4th 2011, 03:30 AM
Wasn't that the same ones who got the truth out about ACORN???? I think its the same people

Yeah, that too was a ridiculous scam, same as the Sherrod thing, etc. They do something ridiculous, post heavily edited video snippets, then Fox fans the flames. To wit. (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/02/01/planned_parenthood_sting)

Hopefully, CNN busting O'Keefe trying to "seduce" their reporter with a lewd boat party has put an end to his idiocy, at least for the moment. Of course now the guy trying the Anthony Weiner hoax seems to be attempting to pick up the mantle but even Breitbart apparently thinks he's too lame.

Amos_with_goats
Jun 4th 2011, 04:45 AM
Yeah, that too was a ridiculous scam, same as the Sherrod thing, etc. They do something ridiculous, post heavily edited video snippets, then Fox fans the flames. To wit. (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/02/01/planned_parenthood_sting)

Hopefully, CNN busting O'Keefe trying to "seduce" their reporter with a lewd boat party has put an end to his idiocy, at least for the moment. Of course now the guy trying the Anthony Weiner hoax seems to be attempting to pick up the mantle but even Breitbart apparently thinks he's too lame.

Why do you think it is that your positions on Planned Parenthood, Acorn, and a variety of other 'causes' seem to be exactly the opposite of other believers on this board?

Cornflake
Jun 4th 2011, 05:59 AM
Why do you think it is that your positions on Planned Parenthood, Acorn, and a variety of other 'causes' seem to be exactly the opposite of other believers on this board?

Uhm, I've never discussed ACORN or seen a discussion of ACORN. The only mention of it was about how the video was a hoax similar to another hoax. I've also not discussed any position I hold on Planned Parenthood, we're talking about the legality of the Indiana provision. I do think it's odd that people want PP defunded because they perform abortions but not hospitals, as they do too. As I mentioned.

So... eh? Am I supposed to just go with what like three other people in this thread think about a legal issue because ... why exactly? I don't think having an opinion on the legality of something is a salvation issue, if that's what you're implying, and if you do I'd be interested to hear why.

Amos_with_goats
Jun 4th 2011, 06:10 AM
Uhm, I've never discussed ACORN or seen a discussion of ACORN. The only mention of it was about how the video was a hoax similar to another hoax. I've also not discussed any position I hold on Planned Parenthood, we're talking about the legality of the Indiana provision. I do think it's odd that people want PP defunded because they perform abortions but not hospitals, as they do too. As I mentioned.

So... eh? Am I supposed to just go with what like three other people in this thread think about a legal issue because ... why exactly? I don't think having an opinion on the legality of something is a salvation issue, if that's what you're implying, and if you do I'd be interested to hear why.

Well, you seem to be opposed to the exposee of Acorn. I am for it. I find the advice offered to the child prostitution 'business' deplorable... I am against child prostitution. Are you against child prostitution?

Planned parenthood is an organization who provides free and easy access to abortion services to the largest number of women and girls as their funding allows. I find the murder of the unborn deplorable, and believe it is one of the worst travesties our society participates in.

Life is sacred, and and I will say that the sacrifice of Children that takes place is (spiritually) just as the worship of Molech... it is an disgusting abomination against the Lord. .

I also believe there are two victims of every abortion... one dead, and one with no hope of healing apart from Christ. Planned Parenthood is an accursed organization, all who participate in it have blood on their hands, and all of the politicians who take their side are on the wrong side and share in there judgment.

So, how does that compare to where you stand>? And Why?

Cornflake
Jun 4th 2011, 06:18 AM
Well, you seem to be opposed to the exposee of Acorn. I am for it. I find the advice offered to the child prostitution 'business' deplorable... I am against child prostitution. Are you against child prostitution?
Are you kidding? The video was a hoax. That was the point of mentioning them, it's one in a list of hoaxes they've pulled.



Planned parenthood is an organization who provides free and easy access to abortion services to the largest number of women and girls as their funding allows. I find the murder of the unborn deplorable, and believe it is one of the worst travesties our society participates in.

Life is sacred, and and I will say that the sacrifice of Children that takes place is (spiritually) just as the worship of Molech... it is an disgusting abomination against the Lord. .

I also believe there are two victims of every abortion... one dead, and one with no hope of healing apart from Christ. Planned Parenthood is an accursed organization, all who participate in it have blood on their hands, and all of the politicians who take their side are on the wrong side and share in there judgment.

So, how does that compare to where you stand>? And Why?I think I just don't see things as black and white as you do - and I also wonder why your enmity is not directed toward hospitals that provide abortions as well.

Abortion is one thing - they do other things, they have many offices which don't do abortions. If the entire organization, which has helped many Christian women who needed regular services, is completely bankrupt and everyone associated, even those who do not perform or have anything to do with abortions, is damned, then IS THAT NOT TRUE OF HOSPITALS? I do not understand why ONE thing is reviled but another is dismissed. Sin is sin. If one sin taints an entire institution even the areas not involved directly with sin, then why does that not apply to every similar organization?

Reynolds357
Jun 4th 2011, 06:27 AM
Ok, so I assume you want hospitals to have their funding cut as well then?

Yeah. Hospitals should be private businesses, not government run institutions.

bob
Jun 5th 2011, 04:00 AM
I hope the House gets it's act together and defunds Planned Parenthood, they aren't entitled to my tax money, if they wanna operate they can do it without my tax money, if people aren't willing to keep them afloat then I say thats too bad.

awestruckchild
Jun 5th 2011, 11:18 AM
I will have to check this out because I have five hospitals right close to me and I don't think ANY of them offer abortion on demand.
I think that they might perform them in cases where the life of the mother AND the child are in grave danger, with neither one expected to make it sometimes.
Not exactly the same thing.
I don't know of ANYONE who wants to have an abortion and goes to the hospital to ask them to perform one...
I don't believe this any more than I believe your 3% statistic.

awestruckchild
Jun 5th 2011, 11:21 AM
And you keep saying the video was a hoax and was heavily edited, but no matter HOW heavily edited, those PP workers did say those words they said.

bob
Jun 5th 2011, 11:29 PM
And you keep saying the video was a hoax and was heavily edited, but no matter HOW heavily edited, those PP workers did say those words they said.

They were also fired, the state head of what was the state, I think New Jersey, denounced the actions of the workers, and had them fired, while an exec of nation wide organization (not the state) said it was all a hoax. So why was the worker fired if it was completely fake?

keck553
Jun 6th 2011, 07:59 PM
Ok, so I assume you want hospitals to have their funding cut as well then?

I don't want ANY of MY TAXES funding human sacrifice or supporting the counseling of human sacrifice by anyone. Clear enough?

Cornflake
Jun 6th 2011, 08:24 PM
I don't want ANY of MY TAXES funding human sacrifice or supporting the counseling of human sacrifice by anyone. Clear enough?

Federal funds can't be used for abortion. The issue is whether people with government medical insurance can get OTHER services from places that do provide abortion. So if that's the case, then it follows, as far as I can see, that people who want that funding cut would also want people to not be able to get any services from hospitals that perform abortions as well if they have medicare or medicaid.

keck553
Jun 6th 2011, 09:31 PM
Federal funds can't be used for abortion. The issue is whether people with government medical insurance can get OTHER services from places that do provide abortion. So if that's the case, then it follows, as far as I can see, that people who want that funding cut would also want people to not be able to get any services from hospitals that perform abortions as well if they have medicare or medicaid.


Apparently I wasn't clear enough. I am against my earnings being used to fund any institution that promotes child sacrifice. That help?

Cornflake
Jun 26th 2011, 03:21 AM
Just FYI, A judge has blocked the defunding of PP; Indiana will likely appeal. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/indiana-defends-planned-parenthood-defunding-says-medicaid-patients-choice-isnt-unlimited/2011/06/24/AGdeIIjH_story.html?wprss=rss_health-science)


By Associated Press, Published: June 24

INDIANAPOLIS — Indiana is not allowed to cut off Planned Parenthood’s public funding for general health services solely because the organization also provides abortions, a federal judge said Friday in blocking part of the state’s tough new abortion law.

U.S. District Judge Tanya Walton Pratt’s ruling granted Planned Parenthood of Indiana’s request for a preliminary injunction on the state’s move to defund the organization. It also sided with federal officials who said states cannot restrict Medicaid recipients’ freedom to choose their health care provider or disqualify Medicaid providers merely because they also offer abortions.


If the state does appeal, this may end up going all the way to SCOTUS. Interesting.

the inside out
Jun 26th 2011, 04:25 AM
That's 3% is waaaay off! It's closer to 11%, and that's not even right. The same girl that comes in and gets an abortion will also get birth control svcs, and they do that on purpose to keep the percent low. A little over 25% of abortions done every year happen at Planned Parenthood, and not every PP clinic provides abortions. That's saying a lot.

howszat
Jun 28th 2011, 06:26 PM
Good for Indiana! It's so nice to see some, though few, states taking a stand against the sins our govt seems to be forcing upon us.

I agree that abortion is murderous genocide. But let's be clear as to what government's role has been in legalizing it:

First, under common law, abortion was legal prior to the period called ''quickening''.

Second, abortion was legalized by a Republican majority in the infamous Roe (1973) decision. Further, that unwise ruling was affirmed by a highly conservative Republican majority in the Casey (1992) decision.

Many political conservatives point the finger at Democrats for the legalization of abortion. But history shows this is incorrect. If you wish to blame anyone, blame the Republican courts for legally entrenching this genocide. Under the legal concept of stare decisis it cannot be overruled by the courts. Therefore, the only way to do away with abortion is to create a constitutional amendment. If one were under consideration, I would eagerly endorse and strenuously fight for it.

Cornflake
Jun 29th 2011, 01:12 AM
Under the legal concept of stare decisis it cannot be overruled by the courts. Therefore, the only way to do away with abortion is to create a constitutional amendment.
The courts could overturn Roe - and as it was a weird decision to begin with it wouldn't be so odd to dismantle the reasoning. Though I agree it'd be hugely unlikely at this point due to the entrenchment of the privacy right in dozens of applications. However, there have been decisions chipping away at Roe for decades and going back and forth on bits and pieces and there's always been criticism of the reasoning. Doesn't mean even if it were reversed there wouldn't be a different reasoning found though.

howszat
Jun 29th 2011, 02:48 PM
Because the courts are politicized as they are, it is highly unlikely that the Supreme Court would overturn two decisions that were made by Republican majority courts. In fact the Court has refused to hear several abortion cases though this has not been well publicized. Like it or not, Roe is entrenched and will not be overturned.

Cornflake
Jun 29th 2011, 04:40 PM
Because the courts are politicized as they are, it is highly unlikely that the Supreme Court would overturn two decisions that were made by Republican majority courts. In fact the Court has refused to hear several abortion cases though this has not been well publicized. Like it or not, Roe is entrenched and will not be overturned.
Again, they've been chipping away for a long while. Sure they turn back cases, they've also heard and decided on plenty. I agree it's unlikely to be overturned, the implications NOT having to do with abortion would be massive, but they can dismantle it other ways and have not had any issue doing so. The heartbeat bills are an attempt to get them to do so.

howszat
Jun 30th 2011, 12:50 AM
I hope you're right.