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ProjectPeter
Jun 5th 2011, 11:34 PM
Doesn't make sense to me but then I look around and what have we become save Christian people that have very little resemblance of Christ. This is a bit of a spin-off from another thread where we're talking about the issue with Immigration. Most those that have been around here for even a year at least... know well that I am about as politically conservative as one can get. I am labeled by many as pretty much a fundamentalist and most also know that for labels sake... I'm about as Pentecostal as they come.

I see a major problem though in the church as a whole (discarding denomination labels) and that comes once we get into the area of politics. We have a political forum here and for a very good reason. In most countries politics plays a huge part of our lives. Just to catch up with the news, local and national, you are blanketed in politics of all sorts. Liberal, conservative, and even moderate. Because of this we talk about that sort of thing often in both real time life as well as life on the Internet. Where I see a major disconnect though... we tend to check our Christianity at the door of the polls and for some reason we have this idea that the two cannot mix. Problem is... how can we possibly separate the two and still be in Christ?

Issues such as abortion, immigration, welfare, and whatnot... we go on and on and on. Folks from all sides making their stands and while they may mention something from Scripture.. Scripture is not what guides them. While they may mention God... He doesn't guide them in politics either.

Abortion is a nasty problem and something that I totally despise. I hate it about as much as anything I can possibly think of and I would do most anything to see it stopped. But then.... there is the young lady that had that abortion. She was selfish and did so because she didn't want the hassle. Perhaps she was selfish and didn't want to have to worry about how much it would cost her to raise the baby. Perhaps she was scared because she didn't want momma and daddy to know she was discussing Ugandan affairs with the boy next door.. I mean serious... their little girl? She figures they will flip. Perhaps she was raped or drugged or maybe even just stupid while in a drunken stupor for the first time. The reasons are countless I know.... I have heard many. Are they valid? No. But okay... they weren't valid reasons but the deed was done anyway. What now? Rail on and on about the evils of abortion? What good will that do in regard to that young lady?

Stand outside the clinic and hold up signs showing dead babies sucked out of the womb and all torn apart? This is a tactic that I don't understand really. Most the girls that are on the way into the clinic have already made up their minds. What is this sign going to prove to her save give her nightmares for years to come and all that to the credit of the Christian man or woman standing at the sidewalk showing her what... the love of Christ? Yelling Baby Killer to the top of your lungs... showing God's love to her via sound waves... such a brilliant tactic really. Why do we do this and do it in the name of God?

I'm the kind of guy that thinks you know... if that crap worked then abortion would have been stopped years ago and yet it still goes on. Abortion is nothing less a symptom of a society gone awry. It is horrible... but it didn't start at that clinic. It started in the back of a car perhaps... or in the house because mom and dad were so busy doing whatever on their computer that they paid no real attention to their sweet little Becky while she was sneaking her boyfriend into her bedroom. Perhaps they couldn't hear the noise because they had their faces stuck in their television watching something racy enough to be a sin itself... but hey... wouldn't want to go there.

I want there to never be another abortion starting now. Not another one. But then I know that tomorrow morning... 9:00'ish clinics across the nation will open up and start their procedure. Girls and young women will go in by the hundreds tomorrow and have a baby sucked out of their womb. At some of the clinics there will be people out there with their signs and yelling their loving words that truthfully aren't loving at all nor are they said in love. Just more of the symptom coming home to roost.

Then there are the borders. They won't be closed off tomorrow. Who knows how many folks are crossing over as I type and by this time tomorrow... it could be thousands. It is a problem and one that you'd think should be fixed. I wouldn't argue with you that it is a problem that needs to be fixed. But it isn't going to be and that is a reality. We can holler just like those folks at the clinic. Hold up our signs telling them to go back home to Mexico. They aren't going to go though. We can demand they be arrested and put in jail until they are carted back to Mexico and then we can complain because the jails let out criminals in order to hold all the immigrants coming in because of all the arrest... that is certainly our American right to do so. But then where is Christ in any of this? Try as I might... can't picture Jesus doing this sort of thing where He to have been sent to earth, and America, in our day. I am so confident in that fact that I would guarantee you, and dare say that I am speaking with the mind of Christ, that He would have nothing at all to do with this petty stuff. Matter of fact... I strongly suspect we'd here a lot of parables on the matter were He here today and preaching on the side of a hill to a bunch of folks. I figure that all that we would hear from Jesus is compassion because of their plight and not nearly as much concern about how much we, as a nation, might suffer because we have less money now because we're taking care of all them Mexican folk.. Just can't see that being a major concern of His knowing how much we have and would still have even if all of us shared half of what we own. We've allowed nasty attitudes to permeate our thinking and actions to the point that we don't even represent Christ any more. I don't care what your leanings are politically be it left, right, center, above or below. We're really messing this up. The left can't stand the right and the right can't stand the left and let's cut through the chase and call it what it is. You hate the other side. You can go on about you hate the ideology and not the person until your lips fall off your face and most of you are simply lying. If you believe I am wrong then you have simply lied to yourself long enough that you have actually believed your own lie.

Forget that mess. We can't escape politics because it's as much a part of our society as breathing has become. But danged if we have to act like the world in this. The people in the church need to grow up and I mean everyone. We don't have time for the hate or even "extreme dislike" any longer. Those kids that get abortions... it's horrible. Now that they have done it love them. They need that now more than anything. Put down the signs and shut up hollering at them. Why not instead go sit down as near the door as you can legally sit. When they come out... hand them a card with your phone number on it and tell them that you are there for them if they ever need to talk. Most might in fact toss it away. But some might keep it and call. Most will sneer at you perhaps and even throwing the card away... one day the reality of what they did is going to set in and they will remember. Maybe they take a drive back to the clinic hoping, maybe even praying, that they might see you there sitting at that corner handing out a card to yet another girl.

None of these things are the only things we can do or should do... we can be creative and the Spirit of God will work through us. But come on... what we are doing now is CLEARLY not working so let's get our head out of our proverbial backsides and recognize the rather obvious. Time is short and we've lost so much of it in our loss of identity and who we are and what we are about. My prayer is that God kicks us all into reality of what we've become and then He allows us time to at least redeem some of the time we've wasted acting just like the world we're supposed to be different than.

Just a note from one of the watchmen on the wall... do with it what you will.

shepherdsword
Jun 5th 2011, 11:45 PM
None of these things are the only things we can do or should do... we can be creative and the Spirit of God will work through us. But come on... what we are doing now is CLEARLY not working so let's get our head out of our proverbial backsides and recognize the rather obvious. Time is short and we've lost so much of it in our loss of identity and who we are and what we are about. My prayer is that God kicks us all into reality of what we've become and then He allows us time to at least redeem some of the time we've wasted acting just like the world we're supposed to be different than.

An amen seems so shallow,cliche and anticlimatic but I say it anyway...amen

Reynolds357
Jun 6th 2011, 02:07 AM
Doesn't make sense to me but then I look around and what have we become save Christian people that have very little resemblance of Christ. This is a bit of a spin-off from another thread where we're talking about the issue with Immigration. Most those that have been around here for even a year at least... know well that I am about as politically conservative as one can get. I am labeled by many as pretty much a fundamentalist and most also know that for labels sake... I'm about as Pentecostal as they come.

I see a major problem though in the church as a whole (discarding denomination labels) and that comes once we get into the area of politics. We have a political forum here and for a very good reason. In most countries politics plays a huge part of our lives. Just to catch up with the news, local and national, you are blanketed in politics of all sorts. Liberal, conservative, and even moderate. Because of this we talk about that sort of thing often in both real time life as well as life on the Internet. Where I see a major disconnect though... we tend to check our Christianity at the door of the polls and for some reason we have this idea that the two cannot mix. Problem is... how can we possibly separate the two and still be in Christ?

Issues such as abortion, immigration, welfare, and whatnot... we go on and on and on. Folks from all sides making their stands and while they may mention something from Scripture.. Scripture is not what guides them. While they may mention God... He doesn't guide them in politics either.

Abortion is a nasty problem and something that I totally despise. I hate it about as much as anything I can possibly think of and I would do most anything to see it stopped. But then.... there is the young lady that had that abortion. She was selfish and did so because she didn't want the hassle. Perhaps she was selfish and didn't want to have to worry about how much it would cost her to raise the baby. Perhaps she was scared because she didn't want momma and daddy to know she was discussing Ugandan affairs with the boy next door.. I mean serious... their little girl? She figures they will flip. Perhaps she was raped or drugged or maybe even just stupid while in a drunken stupor for the first time. The reasons are countless I know.... I have heard many. Are they valid? No. But okay... they weren't valid reasons but the deed was done anyway. What now? Rail on and on about the evils of abortion? What good will that do in regard to that young lady?

Stand outside the clinic and hold up signs showing dead babies sucked out of the womb and all torn apart? This is a tactic that I don't understand really. Most the girls that are on the way into the clinic have already made up their minds. What is this sign going to prove to her save give her nightmares for years to come and all that to the credit of the Christian man or woman standing at the sidewalk showing her what... the love of Christ? Yelling Baby Killer to the top of your lungs... showing God's love to her via sound waves... such a brilliant tactic really. Why do we do this and do it in the name of God?

I'm the kind of guy that thinks you know... if that crap worked then abortion would have been stopped years ago and yet it still goes on. Abortion is nothing less a symptom of a society gone awry. It is horrible... but it didn't start at that clinic. It started in the back of a car perhaps... or in the house because mom and dad were so busy doing whatever on their computer that they paid no real attention to their sweet little Becky while she was sneaking her boyfriend into her bedroom. Perhaps they couldn't hear the noise because they had their faces stuck in their television watching something racy enough to be a sin itself... but hey... wouldn't want to go there.

I want there to never be another abortion starting now. Not another one. But then I know that tomorrow morning... 9:00'ish clinics across the nation will open up and start their procedure. Girls and young women will go in by the hundreds tomorrow and have a baby sucked out of their womb. At some of the clinics there will be people out there with their signs and yelling their loving words that truthfully aren't loving at all nor are they said in love. Just more of the symptom coming home to roost.

Then there are the borders. They won't be closed off tomorrow. Who knows how many folks are crossing over as I type and by this time tomorrow... it could be thousands. It is a problem and one that you'd think should be fixed. I would argue with you that it is a problem that needs to be fixed. But it isn't going to be and that is a reality. We can holler just like those folks at the clinic. Hold up our signs telling them to go back home to Mexico. They aren't going to go though. We can demand they be arrested and put in jail until they are carted back to Mexico and then we can complain because the jails let out criminals in order to hold all the immigrants coming in because of all the arrest... that is certainly our American right to do so. But then where is Christ in any of this? Try as I might... can't picture Jesus doing this sort of thing where He to have been sent to earth, and America, in our day. I am so confident in that fact that I would guarantee you, and dare say that I am speaking with the mind of Christ, that He would have nothing at all to do with this petty stuff. Matter of fact... I strongly suspect we'd here a lot of parables on the matter were He here today and preaching on the side of a hill to a bunch of folks. I figure that all that we would hear from Jesus is compassion because of their plight and not nearly as much concern about how much we, as a nation, might suffer because we have less money now because we're taking care of all them Mexican folk.. Just can't see that being a major concern of His knowing how much we have and would still have even if all of us shared half of what we own. We've allowed nasty attitudes to permeate our thinking and actions to the point that we don't even represent Christ any more. I don't care what your leanings are politically be it left, right, center, above or below. We're really messing this up. The left can't stand the right and the right can't stand the left and let's cut through the chase and call it what it is. You hate the other side. You can go on about you hate the ideology and not the person until your lips fall off your face and most of you are simply lying. If you believe I am wrong then you have simply lied to yourself long enough that you have actually believed your own lie.

Forget that mess. We can't escape politics because it's as much a part of our society as breathing has become. But danged if we have to act like the world in this. The people in the church need to grow up and I mean everyone. We don't have time for the hate or even "extreme dislike" any longer. Those kids that get abortions... it's horrible. Now that they have done it love them. They need that now more than anything. Put down the signs and shut up hollering at them. Why not instead go sit down as near the door as you can legally sit. When they come out... hand them a card with your phone number on it and tell them that you are there for them if they ever need to talk. Most might in fact toss it away. But some might keep it and call. Most will sneer at you perhaps and even throwing the card away... one day the reality of what they did is going to set in and they will remember. Maybe they take a drive back to the clinic hoping, maybe even praying, that they might see you there sitting at that corner handing out a card to yet another girl.

None of these things are the only things we can do or should do... we can be creative and the Spirit of God will work through us. But come on... what we are doing now is CLEARLY not working so let's get our head out of our proverbial backsides and recognize the rather obvious. Time is short and we've lost so much of it in our loss of identity and who we are and what we are about. My prayer is that God kicks us all into reality of what we've become and then He allows us time to at least redeem some of the time we've wasted acting just like the world we're supposed to be different than.

Just a note from one of the watchmen on the wall... do with it what you will.

I really do not know exactly how Jesus would handle immigration. I do know he said "render into Ceasar the things that are Caesars..........."
I am not convinced Jesus would say open the border. I think many people think they know what Jesus would do, but are they sure they are right?

ProjectPeter
Jun 6th 2011, 02:26 AM
I really do not know exactly how Jesus would handle immigration. I do know he said "render into Ceasar the things that are Caesars..........."
I am not convinced Jesus would say open the border. I think many people think they know what Jesus would do, but are they sure they are right?

In this case.. I am sure that I am right. See... here is the problem. No where did you see where I said open the border. Didn't say close it either. Said, and rightly so, that there is a problem that needs fixed but let the government do what it does. But you automatically jump to conclusions based on the political arguments out there and in that... you really totally missed my point. Put the political stuff aside. Think Bible and not politics... think only of the teaching of Christ. Then read again and see if you catch it.

notuptome
Jun 6th 2011, 12:07 PM
In this case.. I am sure that I am right. See... here is the problem. No where did you see where I said open the border. Didn't say close it either. Said, and rightly so, that there is a problem that needs fixed but let the government do what it does. But you automatically jump to conclusions based on the political arguments out there and in that... you really totally missed my point. Put the political stuff aside. Think Bible and not politics... think only of the teaching of Christ. Then read again and see if you catch it.
You're sure you're right? How can you describe yourself as a fundamentalist and a pentacostal? You really think those two are compatible?

Anyhow it is God Who has established kings and kingdoms. God has gathered the peoples into the nations. If God deals with Mexico through poverty because of their religious choices then that is Gods business. America is well along the way to experiencing similar conditions.

The Lord has said that the poor you have with you always. Mark 14:7 You may do good to them. You could make the moral argument that the ten billion we spend every month to make war would be better spent fighting the drug war on our border and aiding the war refugees from Mexico. The reality is that it will not happen. Why? Because people vote their own best interests ahead of doing good, even Christians.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

ProjectPeter
Jun 6th 2011, 12:32 PM
You're sure you're right? How can you describe yourself as a fundamentalist and a pentacostal? You really think those two are compatible?It is amazing really that of all things that I said... this bothers you. Just proof really of what I said.




Anyhow it is God Who has established kings and kingdoms. God has gathered the peoples into the nations. If God deals with Mexico through poverty because of their religious choices then that is Gods business. America is well along the way to experiencing similar conditions.

The Lord has said that the poor you have with you always. Mark 14:7 You may do good to them. You could make the moral argument that the ten billion we spend every month to make war would be better spent fighting the drug war on our border and aiding the war refugees from Mexico. The reality is that it will not happen. Why? Because people vote their own best interests ahead of doing good, even Christians.

For the cause of Christ
RogerSo then is that agreement or disagreement?

divaD
Jun 6th 2011, 02:15 PM
Doesn't make sense to me but then I look around and what have we become save Christian people that have very little resemblance of Christ. This is a bit of a spin-off from another thread where we're talking about the issue with Immigration. Most those that have been around here for even a year at least... know well that I am about as politically conservative as one can get. I am labeled by many as pretty much a fundamentalist and most also know that for labels sake... I'm about as Pentecostal as they come.

I see a major problem though in the church as a whole (discarding denomination labels) and that comes once we get into the area of politics. We have a political forum here and for a very good reason. In most countries politics plays a huge part of our lives. Just to catch up with the news, local and national, you are blanketed in politics of all sorts. Liberal, conservative, and even moderate. Because of this we talk about that sort of thing often in both real time life as well as life on the Internet. Where I see a major disconnect though... we tend to check our Christianity at the door of the polls and for some reason we have this idea that the two cannot mix. Problem is... how can we possibly separate the two and still be in Christ?

Issues such as abortion, immigration, welfare, and whatnot... we go on and on and on. Folks from all sides making their stands and while they may mention something from Scripture.. Scripture is not what guides them. While they may mention God... He doesn't guide them in politics either.

Abortion is a nasty problem and something that I totally despise. I hate it about as much as anything I can possibly think of and I would do most anything to see it stopped. But then.... there is the young lady that had that abortion. She was selfish and did so because she didn't want the hassle. Perhaps she was selfish and didn't want to have to worry about how much it would cost her to raise the baby. Perhaps she was scared because she didn't want momma and daddy to know she was discussing Ugandan affairs with the boy next door.. I mean serious... their little girl? She figures they will flip. Perhaps she was raped or drugged or maybe even just stupid while in a drunken stupor for the first time. The reasons are countless I know.... I have heard many. Are they valid? No. But okay... they weren't valid reasons but the deed was done anyway. What now? Rail on and on about the evils of abortion? What good will that do in regard to that young lady?

Stand outside the clinic and hold up signs showing dead babies sucked out of the womb and all torn apart? This is a tactic that I don't understand really. Most the girls that are on the way into the clinic have already made up their minds. What is this sign going to prove to her save give her nightmares for years to come and all that to the credit of the Christian man or woman standing at the sidewalk showing her what... the love of Christ? Yelling Baby Killer to the top of your lungs... showing God's love to her via sound waves... such a brilliant tactic really. Why do we do this and do it in the name of God?

I'm the kind of guy that thinks you know... if that crap worked then abortion would have been stopped years ago and yet it still goes on. Abortion is nothing less a symptom of a society gone awry. It is horrible... but it didn't start at that clinic. It started in the back of a car perhaps... or in the house because mom and dad were so busy doing whatever on their computer that they paid no real attention to their sweet little Becky while she was sneaking her boyfriend into her bedroom. Perhaps they couldn't hear the noise because they had their faces stuck in their television watching something racy enough to be a sin itself... but hey... wouldn't want to go there.

I want there to never be another abortion starting now. Not another one. But then I know that tomorrow morning... 9:00'ish clinics across the nation will open up and start their procedure. Girls and young women will go in by the hundreds tomorrow and have a baby sucked out of their womb. At some of the clinics there will be people out there with their signs and yelling their loving words that truthfully aren't loving at all nor are they said in love. Just more of the symptom coming home to roost.

Then there are the borders. They won't be closed off tomorrow. Who knows how many folks are crossing over as I type and by this time tomorrow... it could be thousands. It is a problem and one that you'd think should be fixed. I would argue with you that it is a problem that needs to be fixed. But it isn't going to be and that is a reality. We can holler just like those folks at the clinic. Hold up our signs telling them to go back home to Mexico. They aren't going to go though. We can demand they be arrested and put in jail until they are carted back to Mexico and then we can complain because the jails let out criminals in order to hold all the immigrants coming in because of all the arrest... that is certainly our American right to do so. But then where is Christ in any of this? Try as I might... can't picture Jesus doing this sort of thing where He to have been sent to earth, and America, in our day. I am so confident in that fact that I would guarantee you, and dare say that I am speaking with the mind of Christ, that He would have nothing at all to do with this petty stuff. Matter of fact... I strongly suspect we'd here a lot of parables on the matter were He here today and preaching on the side of a hill to a bunch of folks. I figure that all that we would hear from Jesus is compassion because of their plight and not nearly as much concern about how much we, as a nation, might suffer because we have less money now because we're taking care of all them Mexican folk.. Just can't see that being a major concern of His knowing how much we have and would still have even if all of us shared half of what we own. We've allowed nasty attitudes to permeate our thinking and actions to the point that we don't even represent Christ any more. I don't care what your leanings are politically be it left, right, center, above or below. We're really messing this up. The left can't stand the right and the right can't stand the left and let's cut through the chase and call it what it is. You hate the other side. You can go on about you hate the ideology and not the person until your lips fall off your face and most of you are simply lying. If you believe I am wrong then you have simply lied to yourself long enough that you have actually believed your own lie.

Forget that mess. We can't escape politics because it's as much a part of our society as breathing has become. But danged if we have to act like the world in this. The people in the church need to grow up and I mean everyone. We don't have time for the hate or even "extreme dislike" any longer. Those kids that get abortions... it's horrible. Now that they have done it love them. They need that now more than anything. Put down the signs and shut up hollering at them. Why not instead go sit down as near the door as you can legally sit. When they come out... hand them a card with your phone number on it and tell them that you are there for them if they ever need to talk. Most might in fact toss it away. But some might keep it and call. Most will sneer at you perhaps and even throwing the card away... one day the reality of what they did is going to set in and they will remember. Maybe they take a drive back to the clinic hoping, maybe even praying, that they might see you there sitting at that corner handing out a card to yet another girl.

None of these things are the only things we can do or should do... we can be creative and the Spirit of God will work through us. But come on... what we are doing now is CLEARLY not working so let's get our head out of our proverbial backsides and recognize the rather obvious. Time is short and we've lost so much of it in our loss of identity and who we are and what we are about. My prayer is that God kicks us all into reality of what we've become and then He allows us time to at least redeem some of the time we've wasted acting just like the world we're supposed to be different than.

Just a note from one of the watchmen on the wall... do with it what you will.



This nation may be acting more Christ-like in regards to these Mexican's taking over our country than you might think. First of all, I know first hand about them. I have mixed feelings. On one hand, these illegals have pretty much put me out of work around here. I have a trade I've been doing for 30 years. It has to do with new homes construction. It's the kind of trade I can't do by myself. So I have to hire experienced help. In this particular area, anyone that has this kind of experience, 20 bucks an hour is the bare minimum that they will work for. That's not much of a problem as long as you can get a fair price for your services.

Now in steps these illegals. They start cutting prices. The next thing you know, their prices are almost half of what you usually charge. So now the builders and homeowners start hiring these..anything to save a buck..but just forget about quality work tho, since most of these illegals do anything but. Who can compete with them? If we go down to their price level, we can no longer afford to hire any help, since you would have to start cutting wages in half or better. No one around here is going to work for 10 bucks an hour, if they've been getting 20 bucks plus an hour for the past 15 years or so.

Remember, I said I had mixed feelings.

So just recently some illegals moved in next door. I know they're not legal because the mother and father can barely speak any English. But their kids can, and they do all of the interpreting for them. The father has a job. He goes to work everyday..10-12 hours a day. The mother just got a job at Bryce's restaraunt, except she doesn't drive, nor has a way to work. So they started to talking to my wife recently and wondered if she could give her a ride to work. My wife agreed to and gives her a ride to work several times a week. So here we are helping these folks work, while at the same time, not these illegals, but other illegals have pretty much been putting me out of work in the area.

If you're still reading thusfar, if you recall, I stated this nation is being more Christ-like than what it's being given credit for. What do I mean by that? Let's suppose the tables were turned. Mexico is booming, all kinds of new construction going on. The USA is starving to death as a whole..becoming impoverished even. Americans are now crossing the borders into Mexico, seeking work where ever they can get it..cutting prices..the whole 9 yards. But see, it wouldn't even get to that point. There's no doubt in my mind..there would be mass killings of Americans if they ever tried any such things. There's no way they would let us come illegally into their country and literally start taking their work from them, like they've been doing here for decades. This immigration thing isn't anything new. I started my trade in 1980-81 in Houston. The illegals were already a major problem back then. So how is this nation at least more Christ-like about this whole situation? For one, you never here about any open seasons on the illegals in this country. If it were the other way around, and we were going to Mexico, they wouldn't be deporting us, they wouldn't be letting us take over their work, they would be having bounties on us, I'd almost bet on it. And here we are being so good to these folks, but if it were the other way around, there would literally be a lot of dead Americans in Mexico. How do I know this? well about 15 years ago in Irving, Texas I had quite the encouter with some. The work had been slow. I was living in Mesquite at the time. I noticed an ad for the type of work I do. I called it up. The dude said the job is in Irving. It was some new apartments being built. BTw, the trade I do is hanging drywall/sheetrock. So I went over there by myself. Apartments I could actully do without help. It's houses that you can't do by yourself. When I got there, nothing but illega;s everywhere. There were dozens and dozens of buildings going up, but I had no clue which building to start in, since they have to be approved by an inspector before the next phase can start, such as the hanging of the sheetrock.

Finally I found an American working in a building. He said he was finishing up the last aptartment in this bldg, and pointed to a bldg I could start in. So I went over there, found an apartment no one had started yet, and I went to work. Not even 10 minutes later, an illegal who could speak English tho, came and told me this entire bldg was theirs, and that I couldn't hang this apartment. The first thing that spurted out of my mouth.."well I'll just call immigration on you then". I learned fast, almost cost me my life, but that's one thing you never want to say to an illegal if you don't have any backup. The next thing I know, he's got his sheetrock hatchet out, and he's trying to split my head wide open. Somehow I blocked him before this happened. The next thing I know, He's hollering real loud in Spanish. Now there's like 7 or 8 of these illegals running in here, and they're all after me. Somehow I managed to get to the window and off running I went, with this pack literally chasing me, even throwing huge rocks at me at the same time. Fortunately for me, I was somewhat of a track star when I was in high school. They never could catch me, nor could they hit me with any of their rocks. I usually don't run from folks, but even Jesus managed to get out of the midst when they sought to stone Him. He sure didn't stay there acting like Bruce Lee or something, then think He was going to take them all on. But anyway, don't fool yourself. If you think they would let us take over all their work in their country, think again. The end of my rant. And BTW, I'm not much into politics..never visited the political forums on this site I don't think. But I do a have vested interest in this illegals problems tho.

diffangle
Jun 6th 2011, 03:17 PM
The guy who built a fence for me immigrated here legally from Mexico and he was quite upset that the illegals are preventing him from getting jobs, he already has much lower prices than others but he can't compete with the illegals because he has his wife and children here to support but the illegals can pack like sardines into houses/apartments. Now he finds himself struggling to make it after he abided by our laws by coming here legally... it ain't right. It's not right for there to be two different laws/rules for different people... to be rewarded for breaking the law. The people thinking this is a race issue need to realize that there are many Hispanics who immigrated here legally who are quite upset over the illegals.

Reynolds357
Jun 6th 2011, 03:26 PM
You're sure you're right? How can you describe yourself as a fundamentalist and a pentacostal? You really think those two are compatible?



Those two are very compatible. I am very Pentecostal and Ultra fundamental. The S.B.C. does not own fundamentalism.

Reynolds357
Jun 6th 2011, 03:28 PM
In this case.. I am sure that I am right. See... here is the problem. No where did you see where I said open the border. Didn't say close it either. Said, and rightly so, that there is a problem that needs fixed but let the government do what it does. But you automatically jump to conclusions based on the political arguments out there and in that... you really totally missed my point. Put the political stuff aside. Think Bible and not politics... think only of the teaching of Christ. Then read again and see if you catch it.

I caught it the first time. I believe that as Christians, we are to take over the the government of this nation by the use of the ballot box. I believe we should get out of the holy huddles and quit singing Kum Ba Ya.

diffangle
Jun 6th 2011, 03:29 PM
To add to what DivaD said in regards to the violence perpetrated by illegals. When I was giving free art classes for the low income children in my neighborhood, there were several children that were illegal, they would talk about how bad police men were, had major disdain for law enforcement... they of course get that from their parents that brought them here illegally. When someone enters a country right off the bat with total disregard and disdain for that countries laws, what makes you think that they will respect any of the other laws of that country?

Reynolds357
Jun 6th 2011, 03:32 PM
To add to what DivaD said in regards to the violence perpetrated by illegals. When I was giving free art classes for the low income children in my neighborhood, there were several children that were illegal, they would talk about how bad police men were, had major disdain for law enforcement... they of course get that from their parents that brought them here illegally. When someone enters a country right off the bat with total disregard and disdain for that countries laws, what makes you think that they will respect any of the other laws of that country?

Exactly. I speak enough Spanish to keep me safe. I will arrest Mexicans and they are cussing me out and talking about how stuipd I am in Spanish. Funny thing is I know exactly what they are saying. I arrested one the other day that told me his name was Pepe Lopez. I told him "well Pepe, you can sit in jail until you figure out who you are." Then I charged him with giving false information. I already knew his name. One of my snitches told me who he was.

divaD
Jun 6th 2011, 03:58 PM
Exactly. I speak enough Spanish to keep me safe. I will arrest Mexicans and they are cussing me out and talking about how stuipd I am in Spanish. Funny thing is I know exactly what they are saying. I arrested one the other day that told me his name was Pepe Lopez. I told him "well Pepe, you can sit in jail until you figure out who you are." Then I charged him with giving false information. I already knew his name. One of my snitches told me who he was.




That's interesting..so you're a law enforcement officer? I had no clue. But anyway, just out of curiosity, when you stop someone, and suspect they're illegals, but the original offense is something like speeding, do you then just write a ticket, then turn your head to the fact that they're illegally in this country, and just let them drive on off? Can you arrest them for being illegal, or is that only something another agency can do?

notuptome
Jun 6th 2011, 04:04 PM
Those two are very compatible. I am very Pentecostal and Ultra fundamental. The S.B.C. does not own fundamentalism.
Fodder for another thread. The SBC is hardly fundementalist.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The Mighty Sword
Jun 6th 2011, 04:09 PM
I really do not know exactly how Jesus would handle immigration. I do know he said "render into Ceasar the things that are Caesars..........."
I am not convinced Jesus would say open the border. I think many people think they know what Jesus would do, but are they sure they are right?

You're exactly right, I believe Jesus would use the Word as a source of reference:

Romans 13:1-2 Be Subject to Government

1. Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
2. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

To try to say otherwise would be in a direct violation of the Word!!! The whiner(s) will say ( because I have heard this with mine own ears) you're being "dogmatic, religious, condemning, etc" if so why should we bother to use the Word for anything???

So, are Illegal Immigrants" breaking the law by being here??? Yes they are, are they disobeying the Word by being here??? Yes they are. It cannot be justified, there are regulations for everything and they must be obeyed. I'm all for helping others achieve a better life but the letter of the Law comes first.

diffangle
Jun 6th 2011, 04:18 PM
You exactly right, I believe Jesus would use the Word as a source of reference:

Romans 13:1-2 Be Subject to Government

1. Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
2. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

To try to say otherwise would be in a direct violation of the Word!!! The whiner(s) will say ( because I have heard this with mine own ears) you're being "dogmatic, religious, condemning, etc" if so why should we bother to use the Word for anything???

So, are Illegal Immigrants" breaking the law by being here??? Yes they are, are they disobeying the Word by being here??? Yes they are. It cannot be justified, there are regulations for everything and they must be obeyed. I'm all for helping others achieve a better life but the letter of the Law comes first.

The Word also says that there shall be one law for all instead of two different ones, one for legals and a different one for illegals, but PP thinks you're going to hell for your view/opinion.

notuptome
Jun 6th 2011, 04:22 PM
It is amazing really that of all things that I said... this bothers you. Just proof really of what I said.
Unguarded remarks are often the most revealing.

So then is that agreement or disagreement?
Help yes. Send back absolutely. God put them there for His purposes. If we allow the Mexican illegals to stay then we rob Mexico of the very people they need to help the rest of the country. Those who come here ilegally are more motivated than the ones who stay. Mexico needs its best citizens if she is ever to aspire to better conditions for all.

As Christians we must obey the laws of the land. Send them back its the law. There is no scriptural imperative to break the law.
Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? Gen 18:25

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Reynolds357
Jun 6th 2011, 05:13 PM
Fodder for another thread. The SBC is hardly fundementalist.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You ever attended one of their conventions as a voting delegate?

Reynolds357
Jun 6th 2011, 05:22 PM
That's interesting..so you're a law enforcement officer? I had no clue. But anyway, just out of curiosity, when you stop someone, and suspect they're illegals, but the original offense is something like speeding, do you then just write a ticket, then turn your head to the fact that they're illegally in this country, and just let them drive on off? Can you arrest them for being illegal, or is that only something another agency can do?

Right now, the answer to your question is that anyone I catch driving with no license has to be arrested and fingerprinted. We hold them about 20 minutes and if no INS hold comes through, they make bond and are released. Any fingerprintable offense, the same thing happens.
I.N.S. has designated certain jurisdictions, not ours, as detention and deportation zones. Anyone who commts any crime in those areas is supposed to be detained for INS to determine their status. Here is where it gets really confusing. Starting July1, a new state law goes into effect that says I am required to detain anyone who commits any crime (seat belt included) that I suspect of being in this country illegally and establish their immigration status with INS. What makes that law even weirder is that it states that if I do not do that, any resident of my jurisdiction has legal standing to file a civil law suit against me for being derilect in my duty.
Does that clear it up for you? I am sure it does not, because to be honest with you, we do not even know what we are supposed to be doing with illegals at this exact moment in time.

Quickened
Jun 10th 2011, 12:17 AM
It's a good post PP.

The abortion protesters are atrocious. We all get they are trying to make a point but I can do without the graphic images and damning banter.

Amos_with_goats
Jun 15th 2011, 08:26 PM
It's a good post PP.

The abortion protesters are atrocious. We all get they are trying to make a point but I can do without the graphic images and damning banter.

I understand their passion, but I agree with what you are saying.

It is simply amazing what we can justify doing 'in the name of the Lord'. :cry:

There are lots of examples of others actions that I would cite, but those which
I am most convicted of are my own. :o

I HATE it when I look in the mirror, and see something that I ought not to.

Those times when we say 'yea, but...' are just as those times the deceiver asks '“Has God indeed said..."? in Genesis 3:1.

:pray: Lord may these things not be true in me. May they not be true of us...

manichunter
Jun 16th 2011, 03:47 PM
It comes down to being united on a common foundation. We are divided as a believing kingdom. The facts speak for themselves. If the Church was exhibiting the same power as it did during the first hundred years, it would greatly impact the world.

However, the complete opposite is apparent. The believers are ridiculed for not being something they claim to be "Someone who shares a relationship, fellowship, and power with God.

Peter, I hear you. But no one is willing to do what it takes to unite, because of our personal hang ups in the flesh that resist the unifying works of the Holy Spirit.

Until He returns as the catalyst of unity, we possible could remain fragmented and easy prey. Unless we find the rally point together in a military sense.

Christianity as a unified body will continue to appear Christless until the power of Christ is evident and not the power of flesh which is so often demonstrated by our lifestyle, thoughts, and patterns.

Love, Ryan

awestruckchild
Jun 17th 2011, 05:59 PM
Your post made me weep, PP.
Then the blind responses made me weep more.
No one can hear a plea for love anymore.
It is what has helped to convince me our time is extremely short.

shepherdsword
Jun 17th 2011, 07:53 PM
It is sometimes easy to discern who truly belongs to Jesus and who doesn't,sometimes it is very hard. This is because sometimes even those who truly belong to him are hardhearted and stubborn in areas. But Jesus is the righteous judge,he knows the wheat from the tares.

MoreMercy
Jun 19th 2011, 09:04 PM
It is sometimes easy to discern who truly belongs to Jesus and who doesn't,sometimes it is very hard. This is because sometimes even those who truly belong to him are hardhearted and stubborn in areas. But Jesus is the righteous judge,he knows the wheat from the tares.
Amen, just when "I" think I know a man, along comes some new growth in Christ from one or both of us and proves me a fool, a slanderer and a self righteous bigot.

Patience and humility are the real keys of David, but accompanied by obedience/cross carrying life lived.


Father bless, and have mercy on all of us.

MoreMercy
Jun 19th 2011, 09:10 PM
Christ braids a whip just outside the gates to His Fathers house in Jerusalem, but instructs us to turn the other cheek.
Go figure...
Is it because we are fallen creatures, incapable of (intentionally) implementing, or even weighing His justice ?
(fallen = not yet restored)


Father bless, and have mercy on all of us.