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Saved7
Jun 22nd 2011, 05:00 PM
Our world is getting sicker and sicker....I fear just how awful people will be by the time Jesus comes back....2 woman are listed in this article as having killed their babies by microwave. I'm seeing more and more news articles of woman doing grotesque things to their children. I remember one about a year or so ago who bit off her baby's toes because "god" told her to. God help us.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110622/us_nm/us_baby_microwave;_ylt=AtL78RjBH2ragtDohLIQLU0R.3Q A;_ylu=X3oDMTNiNGdrZWdyBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwNjIyL3V zX2JhYnlfbWljcm93YXZlBGNjb2RlA3RvcGdtcHRvcDIwMHBvb 2wEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGs DY2FsaWZvcm5pYW1v

Hunter121
Jun 22nd 2011, 05:10 PM
What the heck? This is awful. Oh man Lord help us all.

strongwatchman
Jun 22nd 2011, 05:27 PM
Nothing breaks my heart than the news of an adult hurting and abusing a child. Sometimes I just try to avoid listening to the news because almost everyday you hear of such atrocities. It's sickening.

Jeanne D
Jun 22nd 2011, 07:14 PM
This is so upsetting. It makes me angry too! She must either be mentally disturbed, or possessed.
How else can a mother do such evil things to her own baby???

Jeanne :cry: :mad:

Saved7
Jun 22nd 2011, 10:02 PM
I'm sure they will blame it on post pardum (sp?) depression, but as far as I am concerned, all these strange things happening to children/babies by their mothers is a sure sign of demonic influence. I mean, I don't care how depressed a person is, you KNOW that stuff is wrong, you don't do that, if you are tempted to do something that horrible, get help for crying out loud.

NHL Fever
Jun 22nd 2011, 10:49 PM
In a group of 300 million, it is almost certain that things like this will happen. Some people are simply crazy, or can become so with minor chemical changes. If 0.01% of people are crazy, that is still 30 000 crazy people.

CandiceL85
Jun 23rd 2011, 02:39 AM
Our world is getting sicker and sicker....I fear just how awful people will be by the time Jesus comes back....2 woman are listed in this article as having killed their babies by microwave. I'm seeing more and more news articles of woman doing grotesque things to their children. I remember one about a year or so ago who bit off her baby's toes because "god" told her to. God help us.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110622/us_nm/us_baby_microwave;_ylt=AtL78RjBH2ragtDohLIQLU0R.3Q A;_ylu=X3oDMTNiNGdrZWdyBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwNjIyL3V zX2JhYnlfbWljcm93YXZlBGNjb2RlA3RvcGdtcHRvcDIwMHBvb 2wEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGs DY2FsaWZvcm5pYW1v

While the situation you mentioned is horrible, do you really think the world is "sicker" today that it was in, say, the dark ages? People have always been crazy.

Cornflake
Jun 23rd 2011, 03:00 AM
Sadly, and as impossible as it is for normal, loving people and parents to imagine, if a child is killed, it's overwhelmingly likely that one or both of the parents are to blame. I don't think there's more, particularly, I think it's just easier for everyone to find out about, given the Internet and global access to media.

Saved7
Jun 23rd 2011, 03:20 AM
While the situation you mentioned is horrible, do you really think the world is "sicker" today that it was in, say, the dark ages? People have always been crazy.

Yes I do, I never heard of such things when I was growing up...just 30 years ago. The things I see on the news on a fairly regular basis these days as compared to back then are more often much worse.

Cornflake
Jun 23rd 2011, 03:26 AM
Yes I do, I never heard of such things when I was growing up...just 30 years ago. The things I see on the news on a fairly regular basis these days as compared to back then are more often much worse.
It's just because you pay attention now and they're covered more, wherever they take place.

It's like the summer of shark attacks a few years ago, when there seemed to be tons of shark attacks happening. There were actually fewer than normal that year, they just got a lot of media play and one story fed off another.

Same as the summer of abducted children the year before or after that, when people were all concerned that there was an increase in abductions after there were two or three in the news. There was no increase, it was the same phenomenon.

It's like how people think there's more violent crime now than 30 or 40 years ago when they were kids. It's just that they didn't notice crime as kids and the news is more ubiquitous.

CandiceL85
Jun 23rd 2011, 12:34 PM
Yes I do, I never heard of such things when I was growing up...just 30 years ago. The things I see on the news on a fairly regular basis these days as compared to back then are more often much worse.

I think cornflake explained it pretty well. 30 years ago there weren't message boards nor the Internet for you to hear about such things all the way. The world communicates much more efficiently now than it did in the early 80s. And I can promise you that the world isn't as sick and barbaric as it once was.

shepherdsword
Jun 23rd 2011, 12:51 PM
I think cornflake explained it pretty well. 30 years ago there weren't message boards nor the Internet for you to hear about such things all the way. The world communicates much more efficiently now than it did in the early 80s. And I can promise you that the world isn't as sick and barbaric as it once was.

This is very nice and touchy feely but it contradicts the scriptures:

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Things are definitely getting worse and worse and will continue to do so until the fullness of iniquity reaches it's height.

CandiceL85
Jun 23rd 2011, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by shepherdsword:
"This is very nice and touchy feely but it contradicts the scriptures:

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Things are definitely getting worse and worse and will continue to do so until the fullness of iniquity reaches it's height. "

I'm sorry, but the world just doesn't reflect that. It's a better place than it used to be.

strongwatchman
Jun 23rd 2011, 01:23 PM
I'm sorry, but the world just doesn't reflect that. It's a better place than it used to be.

The amount of trashy and lewd contents on the internet is proof that our generation is easily the most narcissistic, greedy, and immoral throughout history.

shepherdsword
Jun 23rd 2011, 01:29 PM
I'm sorry, but the world just doesn't reflect that. It's a better place than it used to be.

We see what we want to see and disregard the rest. Therefore I choose to believe what the bible says about it. Are some things better?
I would have to say ,yes. However,looking at it from a total perspective I can see that what the scripture is reality.

CandiceL85
Jun 23rd 2011, 01:40 PM
The amount of trashy and lewd contents on the internet is proof that our generation is easily the most narcissistic, greedy, and immoral throughout history.

It only seems that way because our generation is the first to have the Internet. Do you really think that if you could go back in time to the Dark Ages that you would think it was a better place than today's world?


Originally posted by shepherdsword:
"We see what we want to see and disregard the rest. Therefore I choose to believe what the bible says about it. Are some things better?
I would have to say ,yes. However,looking at it from a total perspective I can see that what the scripture is reality. "

Disagree.

strongwatchman
Jun 23rd 2011, 01:50 PM
It only seems that way because our generation is the first to have the Internet. Do you really think that if you could go back in time to the Dark Ages that you would think it was a better place than today's world?



You can discredit God's Word all you want but there's no denying that moral decay is pervasive in our society more than ever. The number of atheists have risen to epic proportions and are becoming more agressive towards the saints.

CandiceL85
Jun 23rd 2011, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by strongwatchman:
You can discredit God's Word all you want but there's no denying that moral decay is pervasive in our society more than ever.

Absolutely false.


Originally posted by strongwatchman:
The number of atheists have risen to epic proportions and are becoming more agressive towards the saints.

Ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, and the early Christian martyrs? If you think 2011 is the worst time in human history, you have no clue what you are talking about. Just mention the word Medieval and the first thing that will spring to someone's mind is a bunch of creative torture devices. The world's not perfect now by any means, but I would rather live in 2011 than 1011. That's for dang sure.

shepherdsword
Jun 23rd 2011, 02:10 PM
Disagree.

Then we will just agree to disagree :)

Saved7
Jun 23rd 2011, 04:18 PM
This is very nice and touchy feely but it contradicts the scriptures:

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Things are definitely getting worse and worse and will continue to do so until the fullness of iniquity reaches it's height.

Amen, things are getting worse I don't see any sign of them getting better, I believe what I see happening in the world is what the Bible states.

CandiceL85
Jun 23rd 2011, 05:40 PM
Amen, things are getting worse I don't see any sign of them getting better, I believe what I see happening in the world is what the Bible states.

It's hard for me to believe that anyone could really think that way.

Say what you want about Obama, but back in the '90s we had a POTUS who was caught in a sex scandal with a 20-something intern. In the '70s our POTUS resigned over the Watergate scandal and young men were being drafted and shipped off to Vietnam. In the '60s a lot of blood was spilled over basic civil rights issues. In the '40s the world was immersed in World War II and the Holocaust was one of the most infamous atrocities of all time. Back in the 1860s, there was still slavery. SLAVERY!! And in the midst of the mid/late 19th century the white man was running off and killing the Native Americans. And then you have European countries doing the same to South American natives a few centuries before.

Go back to Medieval Europe and the Dark Ages and some of the things that happened then are very disturbing, and they were done by people in power. Read up on Medieval torture devices one day and imagine that the most advanced countries on the planet were using those things to kill people. And the Roman Empire? Would you have rather lived in the Roman Empire than the present day United States?

It ain't perfect, but to say that 2011 is worse than what we've seen throughout history because of Internet pornography or something is just... well, it's naive. People have always done the crazy things mentioned in the OP's article. There just wasn't an Internet years ago for those stories to circulate so easily. If we were living in the 1960s, nothing would have been heard about it and the idea of the USA as one big Mayberry still would be intact.

mattlad22
Jun 23rd 2011, 06:14 PM
It's hard for me to believe that anyone could really think that way.

Say what you want about Obama, but back in the '90s we had a POTUS who was caught in a sex scandal with a 20-something intern. In the '70s our POTUS resigned over the Watergate scandal and young men were being drafted and shipped off to Vietnam. In the '60s a lot of blood was spilled over basic civil rights issues. In the '40s the world was immersed in World War II and the Holocaust was one of the most infamous atrocities of all time. Back in the 1860s, there was still slavery. SLAVERY!! And in the midst of the mid/late 19th century the white man was running off and killing the Native Americans. And then you have European countries doing the same to South American natives a few centuries before.

Go back to Medieval Europe and the Dark Ages and some of the things that happened then are very disturbing, and they were done by people in power. Read up on Medieval torture devices one day and imagine that the most advanced countries on the planet were using those things to kill people. And the Roman Empire? Would you have rather lived in the Roman Empire than the present day United States?

It ain't perfect, but to say that 2011 is worse than what we've seen throughout history because of Internet pornography or something is just... well, it's naive. People have always done the crazy things mentioned in the OP's article. There just wasn't an Internet years ago for those stories to circulate so easily. If we were living in the 1960s, nothing would have been heard about it and the idea of the USA as one big Mayberry still would be intact.

Ok, so then what do you say regarding what God says about it?

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Doesnt that only make it logical things get worse and worse as time goes on?

Cornflake
Jun 23rd 2011, 06:25 PM
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Doesnt that only make it logical things get worse and worse as time goes on?
I wonder about this and I think there are a couple of things. There could be an aspect of hearts growing cold and evil men becoming worse that doesn't necessarily mean that in general there's more evil - just that there are evil and more cold-hearted people who are more evil and cold-hearted than before.

Also, God's timeline is not ours. I wonder when people say God said things will get worse and it's worse than 30 years ago if that's what God meant. I mean Jesus was here 2000 years ago - what timeframe is getting worse operating in, you know? Given the eternity of God, a few decades seems like a meaningless interlude.

mattlad22
Jun 23rd 2011, 07:53 PM
I wonder about this and I think there are a couple of things. There could be an aspect of hearts growing cold and evil men becoming worse that doesn't necessarily mean that in general there's more evil - just that there are evil and more cold-hearted people who are more evil and cold-hearted than before.

Also, God's timeline is not ours. I wonder when people say God said things will get worse and it's worse than 30 years ago if that's what God meant. I mean Jesus was here 2000 years ago - what timeframe is getting worse operating in, you know? Given the eternity of God, a few decades seems like a meaningless interlude.

Yes but either regard it would still be getting worse because time was continueing, in other words from 30 years ago to now, would be worse and 2000 years ago to now would be worse, in fact yesterday is better than today, and tomorrow will be worse than today.

Well considering wickedness in man is considered evil wouldnt all wicked men apply? Also wouldnt that imply that they shall be worse and worse, no matter what worse is? itll be worse at being worse?
Sin is sin, it all leads to death, so wouldnt worse imply more often, frequently on occasion far more frequently?

shepherdsword
Jun 23rd 2011, 09:17 PM
It's hard for me to believe that anyone could really think that way.

Say what you want about Obama, but back in the '90s we had a POTUS who was caught in a sex scandal with a 20-something intern. In the '70s our POTUS resigned over the Watergate scandal and young men were being drafted and shipped off to Vietnam. In the '60s a lot of blood was spilled over basic civil rights issues. In the '40s the world was immersed in World War II and the Holocaust was one of the most infamous atrocities of all time. Back in the 1860s, there was still slavery. SLAVERY!! And in the midst of the mid/late 19th century the white man was running off and killing the Native Americans. And then you have European countries doing the same to South American natives a few centuries before.

Go back to Medieval Europe and the Dark Ages and some of the things that happened then are very disturbing, and they were done by people in power. Read up on Medieval torture devices one day and imagine that the most advanced countries on the planet were using those things to kill people. And the Roman Empire? Would you have rather lived in the Roman Empire than the present day United States?

It ain't perfect, but to say that 2011 is worse than what we've seen throughout history because of Internet pornography or something is just... well, it's naive. People have always done the crazy things mentioned in the OP's article. There just wasn't an Internet years ago for those stories to circulate so easily. If we were living in the 1960s, nothing would have been heard about it and the idea of the USA as one big Mayberry still would be intact.

Of course you don't have any proof to substantiate your position just,your opinion. I challenge you to prove that the things like the OP posted were just as common in the past. What statistics do you have that verify this? In reality it's your opinion that is very naive. You should spend a little more time in the bible and a little less listening to your liberal friends. We have created an unsustainable lifestyle. We are polluting the earth and using up our natural resources at an alarming rate. Morality has fallen to levels of near total depravity. The planets population has gone from 4 billion to 6 billion in just my lifetime. The church,which is supposed to be the light and salt,for the planet has become nothing but just another American business enterprise. America herself is on the verge of bankruptcy.
We need to get our heads out of the sand instead of pretending that all is well,like plastic bliss-ninnies.

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

NHL Fever
Jun 23rd 2011, 11:20 PM
Of course you don't have any proof to substantiate your position just,your opinion. I challenge you to prove that the things like the OP posted were just as common in the past. What statistics do you have that verify this? In reality it's your opinion that is very naive. You should spend a little more time in the bible and a little less listening to your liberal friends. We have created an unsustainable lifestyle. We are polluting the earth and using up our natural resources at an alarming rate. Morality has fallen to levels of near total depravity. The planets population has gone from 4 billion to 6 billion in just my lifetime. The church,which is supposed to be the light and salt,for the planet has become nothing but just another American business enterprise. America herself is on the verge of bankruptcy.
We need to get our heads out of the sand instead of pretending that all is well,like plastic bliss-ninnies.

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Actually she's absolutely right. There is plenty of sin and wickedness today, but its hard to compare to ancient times. If you are keen on the bible then I would suggest stop calling people ninnies, lose the condescension, and open one up. You will find it documented that people were throwing their children into the fire as sacrifices to pagan Gods. There is also that issue of throwing people into an area to be eaten and mutilated alive by animals, for entertainment. Religious institutions had ritualized temple prostitution. Kings could issue commands for entire people groups, or entire age groups, to be exterminated. People were traded as property, and women were basically not people.

Modern times in the west, are nothing compared to the historical record. If you honestly want to consider the sources of immorality, there is no more efficient distributor, encourager and profiteer from sin that the corporate world. Sin is appealing, there is no shortage of individuals an companies ready to jump at the chance to make a buck of it. As but one example, there is no bigger producer and distributor of pornography and glorification of violence than US companies. Greed is by its very nature and definition sinful, and the materialistic consumption-based culture is unquestionably a HUGE factor our social decay, though tame as it may seem compared to sticking a pike through someone's anus or burning them until they confess to being a witch (middle ages) or something like that.

shepherdsword
Jun 24th 2011, 02:18 PM
Actually she's absolutely right. There is plenty of sin and wickedness today, but its hard to compare to ancient times. If you are keen on the bible then I would suggest stop calling people ninnies, lose the condescension, and open one up. You will find it documented that people were throwing their children into the fire as sacrifices to pagan Gods. There is also that issue of throwing people into an area to be eaten and mutilated alive by animals, for entertainment. Religious institutions had ritualized temple prostitution. Kings could issue commands for entire people groups, or entire age groups, to be exterminated. People were traded as property, and women were basically not people.

Modern times in the west, are nothing compared to the historical record. If you honestly want to consider the sources of immorality, there is no more efficient distributor, encourager and profiteer from sin that the corporate world. Sin is appealing, there is no shortage of individuals an companies ready to jump at the chance to make a buck of it. As but one example, there is no bigger producer and distributor of pornography and glorification of violence than US companies. Greed is by its very nature and definition sinful, and the materialistic consumption-based culture is unquestionably a HUGE factor our social decay, though tame as it may seem compared to sticking a pike through someone's anus or burning them until they confess to being a witch (middle ages) or something like that.

Are you aware of the ever increasing persecution of Christians in many parts of the world? How about starvation due to population increase? What about the depletion of our natural resources?How about our own moral decay? Is our ethical standard lower or higher?The fact that the world will get worse and worse is supported in various places in the bible. I invite you to explain your perspective in light of this. Are some things better? Of course,technology has given us great advances. However,looking at the world in totality,from a scriptural perspective one can logically conclude the world is getting worse.
Just saying it is better doesn't make it so. Now I want to say something. I appreciate people like you and Candice that see the good in things. It is a good trait.In fact when the prophet of "gloom and doom" named Jeremiah was first called God put him to an interesting test. He was taken to a burned out forest and asked what he saw. He answered "I see the bud of an almond tree". His observation was remarkable because in spite of the dead trees all around he saw the first glimpse of life. A trait we should emulate as Christians. However,we must also view things from a scriptural perspective not a worldly one.
The bible states that things will progressively get worse in the world before the Lord's return.

Vhayes
Jun 24th 2011, 03:01 PM
We no longer lives (for the most part) under leadership that inherited the empire from his father - and then sets about torching everything because he's a lunatic.

We have medicines that heal illnesses that would have killed people less than a century or two ago.

We no longer have a Torquemada to make people "confess" Jesus as Lord.

We can now read and learn as much or as little as we want.

The flip side to the whole thing? Instead of saying, "God will provide and care for me." we now say, "government/medicine/education will care for me."

People forget that God gave us the governments that we have and we should be thankful to HIM for them. He have us the scientific knowledge that allows for treatments to heal people and we should be grateful to HIM for that knowledge.

Is the world getting worse? Not at all. Is mankind becoming more "self-reliant" and pompous - yep. And it's people and their hearts that matter to God.

Vhayes
Jun 24th 2011, 03:48 PM
Are you aware of the ever increasing persecution of Christians in many parts of the world?
Are you aware of the persecution perpetrated by Christians in the Middle Ages against Jews and Muslims?


How about starvation due to population increase?
How about starvation being common due to lack of understanding? May not have been population explosion but starvation is starvation. Also, people's life spans were far less due to mant factors, one of which was poor nutrition. Kinda hard getting a balanced diet when you live on one food source.


What about the depletion of our natural resources?
How about not even knowing what a natural resource WAS?


How about our own moral decay?
How about thinking there is nothing at all wrong with selling your six year old son to a noble to be his catamite? That was not at all uncommon a thousand years ago.


Is our ethical standard lower or higher?
We know little about the day to day dealings of common people who lived a thousand or more years ago, so that's hard to say. The "rulers" and such? I'd have to say they were men - and most concerned with their desires. Fulfilling their desires.



The fact that the world will get worse and worse is supported in various places in the bible. I invite you to explain your perspective in light of this.
I have.


Are some things better? Of course,technology has given us great advances. However,looking at the world in totality,from a scriptural perspective one can logically conclude the world is getting worse.
What "scriptural perspective" is that exactly?


Just saying it is better doesn't make it so.
Just saying it is worse doesn't make it so.


Now I want to say something. I appreciate people like you and Candice that see the good in things. It is a good trait.In fact when the prophet of "gloom and doom" named Jeremiah was first called God put him to an interesting test. He was taken to a burned out forest and asked what he saw. He answered "I see the bud of an almond tree". His observation was remarkable because in spite of the dead trees all around he saw the first glimpse of life. A trait we should emulate as Christians. However,we must also view things from a scriptural perspective not a worldly one.
The bible states that things will progressively get worse in the world before the Lord's return.
That's nice.

What biblical perspective? And is there the possibility that you may have a few things wrong? That you may be the one who (to paraphrase you) needs to get your head out of the sand instead of pretending that all is evil, evil, evil, like plastic masochistic-ninnies.

shepherdsword
Jun 24th 2011, 04:31 PM
Are you aware of the persecution perpetrated by Christians in the Middle Ages against Jews and Muslims?

Are you aware that the "Christians" who did such things were that in name only?



How about starvation being common due to lack of understanding? May not have been population explosion but starvation is starvation. Also, people's life spans were far less due to mant factors, one of which was poor nutrition. Kinda hard getting a balanced diet when you live on one food source.

I don't see how this defines the world in the past as being just as bad now but I am open for an explanation.



How about not even knowing what a natural resource WAS?

Can you name one time in biblical history where they weren't known? Even Adam tended a garden. Soil depletion is a bad thing,no?



How about thinking there is nothing at all wrong with selling your six year old son to a noble to be his catamite? That was not at all uncommon a thousand years ago.

I see similar stories in the headlines:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/zoe-ortiz/2009/06/29/gay-duke-u-official-attempts-sell-black-5-year-old-son-sex-msm-out-lunch
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/children-sold-for-sex-on-the-internet-569604.html
http://www.10news.com/news/7558922/detail.html


We know little about the day to day dealings of common people who lived a thousand or more years ago, so that's hard to say. The "rulers" and such? I'd have to say they were men - and most concerned with their desires. Fulfilling their desires.

And you think THIS is getting better? I mean after all,this whole thing is all man's fault to begin with.:rolleyes: Question: Who was deceived into eating of the tree of knowledge? However,let's see the scriptures that oppose your position:

2Ti 3:1 . This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;




What "scriptural perspective" is that exactly?

Well that would be the one that can back it's position from scripture,as I think I am doing. Do you have a scriptural perspective that supports your position or is just an opinion based on sentimental emotionalism? A common error for women(since you went and got all sexist on me)



Just saying it is worse doesn't make it so.

Exactly,that's why I refer to the bible when considering matters like this. Are you doing that?



What biblical perspective?
Go back and read my posts concerning this V. Everything I am saying I believe is supported from scripture. I haven't see you,Candice or NFL post a single bible verse in any of your posts concerning this.

And is there the possibility that you may have a few things wrong?
Of course there is. However,if I am I would like to be shown why the scripture seems to be saying one thing and you are saying another? Could it be(God forbid) That you are wrong?

That you may be the one who (to paraphrase you) needs to get your head out of the sand instead of pretending that all is evil, evil, evil, like plastic masochistic-ninnies.

Wow, I mean just wow. Look out your Jungian animus is showing:) Sheath them claws girly girl!
Maybe I do need to get my head out of the sand.....see my SIG? I am talking about ME.

Vhayes
Jun 24th 2011, 04:34 PM
How 'bout you "sheath your condescension" little man?

Your SIG says NOTHING about you specifically.

And I DID answer your question - you chose to ignore that post. Can we talk about Freudian slips here?

mattlad22
Jun 24th 2011, 04:43 PM
Well we went from edification to i dont know what, good job guys, think He's proud, seriously?

Can you both not make your points without punching each other in the face?

Sheperds right, If you wan to debate this, why dont you use scriptures to debate and edify instead of your own opinions, Scripture speaks for Itself.

Scripture as has been posted clearly shows things will get worse and worse as time goes on, no?

Now i dont want to hear either of you say, mind your own bussiness or anything like that, we are the body of Christ, He is the Head, show it. One of you step up and be the "bigger saint" and humble yourselves.

shepherdsword
Jun 24th 2011, 04:53 PM
How 'bout you "sheath your condescension" little man?

Uhhh, I have been called many things but "little' is not one of them :rofl:
I'm built like a line backer:)
In any case I wasn't trying to be condescending. Maybe the "bliss ninny" comment was uncalled for. But I can take whatever I dish out!
Without getting offended. However,I can see that is not the case with everyone so...I withdraw the comment,satisfied?


Your SIG says NOTHING about you specifically.

I think it does. I think it reflects my whole mindset regarding my paradigms and false preconceptions. I must awaken to the fact I have them. I cannot disown something until I own it. Some can see wisdom in such a position,some can't.


And I DID answer your question - you chose to ignore that post. Can we talk about Freudian slips here?

Then please point your answer out,like you said I must have made a Freudian slip into your sarCHASM! ;)

But if you are really getting offended then it's time to stop. I can see that the discussion is going to prove to be unfruitful. You think I'm a bible thumping chauvinist and I think you are failing to consider the scriptures when formulating your opinion.

little macho pig man OUT! :lol:

Vhayes
Jun 24th 2011, 05:24 PM
Uhhh, I have been called many things but "little' is not one of them :rofl:
I'm built like a line backer:)
In any case I wasn't trying to be condescending. Maybe the "bliss ninny" comment was uncalled for. But I can take whatever I dish out!
Without getting offended. However,I can see that is not the case with everyone so...I withdraw the comment,satisfied?



I think it does. I think it reflects my whole mindset regarding my paradigms and false preconceptions. I must awaken to the fact I have them. I cannot disown something until I own it. Some can see wisdom in such a position,some can't.



Then please point your answer out,like you said I must have made a Freudian slip into your sarCHASM! ;)

But if you are really getting offended then it's time to stop. I can see that the discussion is going to prove to be unfruitful. You think I'm a bible thumping chauvinist and I think you are failing to consider the scriptures when formulating your opinion.

little macho pig man OUT! :lol:

I am in no way offended. How would it be possible for you to offend me?

I think what happens a whole lot, especially in this medium, we "assume" we know what the other person is saying and then go off and extrapolate even more.

I answered the "is the world getting worse" question in the post right before the one you decided to respond to. You didn't touch that one - you went for the one that "offended" you.

There are many lessons to be learned from the discussion - people seem to only be open to what suits them.

Thank you for withdrawing the statement. It was condescending and rude. It had nothing to do with you being or not being a misogynist.

You (and others) were very, very quick to pick up on MY "tone" but failed to see/hear the attitude you were displaying. As I said, it is a weakness of this medium. We just all need to be aware of it and not allow it to happen. The one who pinches first is usually the one the teacher sees getting his lights punched out by the pinchee.

mattlad22
Jun 24th 2011, 05:29 PM
I am in no way offended. How would it be possible for you to offend me?

I think what happens a whole lot, especially in this medium, we "assume" we know what the other person is saying and then go off and extrapolate even more.

I answered the "is the world getting worse" question in the post right before the one you decided to respond to. You didn't touch that one - you went for the one that "offended" you.

There are many lessons to be learned from the discussion - people seem to only be open to what suits them.

Thank you for withdrawing the statement. It was condescending and rude. It had nothing to do with you being or not being a misogynist.

You (and others) were very, very quick to pick up on MY "tone" but failed to see/hear the attitude you were displaying. As I said, it is a weakness of this medium. We just all need to be aware of it and not allow it to happen. The one who pinches first is usually the one the teacher sees getting his lights punched out by the pinchee.

Really, i actually had nothing to do with the coversation except to bring up that it could be done in a much better way for edification, saddening that you would respond this way.
Could have just agree'd you were both out of line and seeked peace, love and joy in the Holy Spirit. No?

Whether your being sarcastic or not, obviously someone, me, didnt appreciate the way either of you were reacting towards one another post, wouldnt it not be righteous for both of you to drop what your doing and serve the brethren who brings this up between you?

Vhayes
Jun 24th 2011, 05:32 PM
Really, i actually had nothing to do with the coversation except to bring up that it could be done in a much better way for edification, saddening that you would respond this way.
Could have just agree'd you were both out of line and seeked peace, love and joy in the Holy Spirit. No?

Of course. Shepherd is right and nothing I have to say is ever edifying.

What a place this has turned into...

mattlad22
Jun 24th 2011, 05:35 PM
Of course. Shepherd is right and nothing I have to say is ever edifying.

What a place this has turned into...

No thats actually not what i said at all, what i said was using scripture is right, which is exactly what shepard said both of you guys should do, not use either of your opinions outside of scripture, and that is what i was agreeing on, I know your hurt V, youve been for awhile and I know why, but you cant assume because of those things everyone is out to get ya sort of speak.
Thats not what i meant at all, know that.
If you guys use scriptural evidence in what your speaking about there will be not reason to snippet at each other, right? How can there be evil in love? the Word is love in rigteousness, it is Righteousness.

shepherdsword
Jun 24th 2011, 05:41 PM
I am in no way offended. How would it be possible for you to offend me?

I think what happens a whole lot, especially in this medium, we "assume" we know what the other person is saying and then go off and extrapolate even more.

I answered the "is the world getting worse" question in the post right before the one you decided to respond to. You didn't touch that one - you went for the one that "offended" you.

There are many lessons to be learned from the discussion - people seem to only be open to what suits them.

Thank you for withdrawing the statement. It was condescending and rude. It had nothing to do with you being or not being a misogynist.

You (and others) were very, very quick to pick up on MY "tone" but failed to see/hear the attitude you were displaying. As I said, it is a weakness of this medium. We just all need to be aware of it and not allow it to happen. The one who pinches first is usually the one the teacher sees getting his lights punched out by the pinchee.

I think the real issue to consider is what the scripture states about issues like this. The bible doesn't teach that the world will get better. In fact it teaches just the opposite. Are some things better? Yes. I will even touch on a few you guys/gals have missed. There was a time when if your skin was black you were considered merchandise. Even after that was no longer the case you were still viewed as something less than a white man if you had black skin. There was a time when women weren't even allowed to vote. There was a time when children could be used for manual labor.We used to live in fear of nuclear oblivion. Things have changed. We have a black president and even had a woman run on a Presidential ticket as VP. There are now child labor laws. The Soviet Union has been dissolved and we kids no longer grown up learning how to "run,duck and cover" as I did as a child. However,these are some of the many exceptions. We are clearly told in scripture:

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Vhayes
Jun 24th 2011, 05:54 PM
I think the real issue to consider is what the scripture states about issues like this. The bible doesn't teach that the world will get better. In fact it teaches just the opposite. Are some things better? Yes. I will even touch on a few you guys/gals have missed. There was a time when if your skin was black you were considered merchandise. Even after that was no longer the case you were still viewed as something less than a white man if you had black skin. There was a time when women weren't even allowed to vote. There was a time when children could be used for manual labor.We used to live in fear of nuclear oblivion. Things have changed. We have a black president and even had a woman run on a Presidential ticket as VP. There are now child labor laws. The Soviet Union has been dissolved and we kids no longer grown up learning how to "run,duck and cover" as I did as a child. However,these are some of the many exceptions. We are clearly told in scripture:

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

How about if I repost post #28. As I said, I think I addressed exactly that.

W
e no longer lives (for the most part) under leadership that inherited the empire from his father - and then sets about torching everything because he's a lunatic.

We have medicines that heal illnesses that would have killed people less than a century or two ago.

We no longer have a Torquemada to make people "confess" Jesus as Lord.

We can now read and learn as much or as little as we want.

The flip side to the whole thing? Instead of saying, "God will provide and care for me." we now say, "government/medicine/education will care for me."

People forget that God gave us the governments that we have and we should be thankful to HIM for them. He have us the scientific knowledge that allows for treatments to heal people and we should be grateful to HIM for that knowledge.

Is the world getting worse? Not at all. Is mankind becoming more "self-reliant" and pompous - yep. And it's people and their hearts that matter to God.

Man will think he has peace and safety because of all the progress he has made, all the safety nets he has built in. And guess what? In the end, the safety nets will mean absolutely nothing. It's the "world" depending on the "world" instead of depending on God.

Vhayes
Jun 24th 2011, 05:59 PM
No thats actually not what i said at all, what i said was using scripture is right, which is exactly what shepard said both of you guys should do, not use either of your opinions outside of scripture, and that is what i was agreeing on, I know your hurt V, youve been for awhile and I know why, but you cant assume because of those things everyone is out to get ya sort of speak.
Thats not what i meant at all, know that.
If you guys use scriptural evidence in what your speaking about there will be not reason to snippet at each other, right? How can there be evil in love? the Word is love in rigteousness, it is Righteousness.

You know nothing of the sort - and if you think you do, I'd like to hear "why". I am befuddled but not angry and not hurt.

In case you haven't picked up on it, I have been using the same tone and the same level of condescension to reply t people that I see displayed in THEIR posts to others. No - it isn't the Golden Rule - but it certainly shows the blinders people wear.

mattlad22
Jun 24th 2011, 06:03 PM
You know nothing of the sort - and if you think you do, I'd like to hear "why". I am befuddled but not angry and not hurt.

In case you haven't picked up on it, I have been using the same tone and the same level of condescension to reply t people that I see displayed in THEIR posts to others. No - it isn't the Golden Rule - but it certainly shows the blinders people wear.

Maybe hurt wasnt the proper word, frustrated would have been better, my apologies.
So when you said this to me, you didnt mean it?:

"Of course. Shepherd is right and nothing I have to say is ever edifying.

What a place this has turned into..."

shepherdsword
Jun 24th 2011, 07:03 PM
You know nothing of the sort - and if you think you do, I'd like to hear "why". I am befuddled but not angry and not hurt.

In case you haven't picked up on it, I have been using the same tone and the same level of condescension to reply t people that I see displayed in THEIR posts to others. No - it isn't the Golden Rule - but it certainly shows the blinders people wear.

I am going to say something here. I wasn't offended and I wasn't trying to offend. I think my position is backed by scripture and I haven't seen any proof that countermands that position. However,I will say this Vhayes, You excused me of focusing on the one post that "offended" me but that's what you did. You went off on some sexist tirade about how "men" are responsible for all of this. You then insulted me personally twice in one post and didn't withdraw it. Even after I withdrew my GENERAL insult. Sister,you are the one with blinders on. Now I am not expecting you to withdraw your insults because to me they were without merit,However,when I see you don't even have a heart to do so. Then you accuse everyone else of wearing blinders? I can only advise you to check your heart.
Something is not right. This issue of "evil in the world"is of little consequence because God is in control. However,we are still in control of our own hearts. We can choose to humble them before God or exalt them above him.
As you said in post 28...the heart is the real issue. I advise you to check yours. Don't worry,I am heeding my own advice and checking mine as well.

Vhayes
Jun 24th 2011, 07:19 PM
girly girl wasn't meant to be demeaning in anyway?

And when I said "man" I should perhaps have said "mankind" or human kind.

shepherdsword
Jun 24th 2011, 07:30 PM
girly girl wasn't meant to be demeaning in anyway?

And when I said "man" I should perhaps have said "mankind" or human kind.
girly girl was meant more as a term of affection than anything else.I was trying to disarm the conflict. If I thought it would be taken in any other way I would never have used it. I guess I have been listening to my niece and her friends to much. They use it on each other all the time with the best of intentions.

And not to derail the thread but my niece got saved last Sunday!

Crosstalk
Jun 24th 2011, 08:50 PM
Here's one of the reasons our little part of the world is getting sicker.....

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-tube/video.php?videoid=2032

Ashley274
Jun 25th 2011, 05:36 AM
I am in agreement with you


Are you aware that the "Christians" who did such things were that in name only?




I don't see how this defines the world in the past as being just as bad now but I am open for an explanation.




Can you name one time in biblical history where they weren't known? Even Adam tended a garden. Soil depletion is a bad thing,no?




I see similar stories in the headlines:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/zoe-ortiz/2009/06/29/gay-duke-u-official-attempts-sell-black-5-year-old-son-sex-msm-out-lunch
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/children-sold-for-sex-on-the-internet-569604.html
http://www.10news.com/news/7558922/detail.html



And you think THIS is getting better? I mean after all,this whole thing is all man's fault to begin with.:rolleyes: Question: Who was deceived into eating of the tree of knowledge? However,let's see the scriptures that oppose your position:

2Ti 3:1 . This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;





Well that would be the one that can back it's position from scripture,as I think I am doing. Do you have a scriptural perspective that supports your position or is just an opinion based on sentimental emotionalism? A common error for women(since you went and got all sexist on me)




Exactly,that's why I refer to the bible when considering matters like this. Are you doing that?



Go back and read my posts concerning this V. Everything I am saying I believe is supported from scripture. I haven't see you,Candice or NFL post a single bible verse in any of your posts concerning this.

Of course there is. However,if I am I would like to be shown why the scripture seems to be saying one thing and you are saying another? Could it be(God forbid) That you are wrong?


Wow, I mean just wow. Look out your Jungian animus is showing:) Sheath them claws girly girl!
Maybe I do need to get my head out of the sand.....see my SIG? I am talking about ME.

Ashley274
Jun 25th 2011, 05:51 AM
Saying this in love maybe condescension as you stated is not the way to reply to anyone even IF they are condesending. It's not edifying and maybe just agreeing to disagree is best and more a mirror of Christ than this back and forth angry posting...I am sorry you may feel hurt or whatever you are feeling ....Praying whatever it is passes soon. This is not good for the site at all.


You know nothing of the sort - and if you think you do, I'd like to hear "why". I am befuddled but not angry and not hurt.

In case you haven't picked up on it, I have been using the same tone and the same level of condescension to reply t people that I see displayed in THEIR posts to others. No - it isn't the Golden Rule - but it certainly shows the blinders people wear.

Is45
Jun 25th 2011, 07:45 AM
This is very nice and touchy feely but it contradicts the scriptures:

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Things are definitely getting worse and worse and will continue to do so until the fullness of iniquity reaches it's height.




The more perverted the world becomes the less conscious people are of the world's perversions...
eventually good becomes evil and evil becomes good.

http://bible.cc/isaiah/5-20.htm



.

Vhayes
Jun 25th 2011, 01:43 PM
Thank you, Ashley, for this gentle and timely rebuke.

Now, are you willing to quote another poster and tell them the same or am I the only one worthy of rebuke because you happen to disagree with me?

strongwatchman
Jun 27th 2011, 04:27 AM
I am haunted by the story below. It makes me ill.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/world/asia/27afghanistan.html?_r=2&src=tptw


Insurgents tricked an 8-year-old girl in a remote area of central Afghanistan into carrying a bomb wrapped in cloth that they detonated remotely when she was close to a police vehicle, the Afghan authorities said Sunday.

May the poor little girl rest in peace in God's bosom.

Luke34
Jun 27th 2011, 04:49 AM
We see what we want to see and disregard the rest. Therefore I choose to believe what the bible says about it. Are some things better?
I would have to say ,yes. However,looking at it from a total perspective I can see that what the scripture is reality.I actually disagree with this in the strongest possible terms, but you still made a Simon & Garfunkel reference (right?), so, nice.

Faithful One
Jun 27th 2011, 02:02 PM
Are


I see similar stories in the headlines:

2Ti 3:1 . This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;



Very True Shepherdsword;
I see this prophecy coming to pass even on this "Christian" forum! Rejecting the Word of God in favor of their own opinions, Accusing the godly, and despising those who are promoting God's Word.

I wonder if these folks realize they are actually fulfilling this end time prophecy?? Its pretty obvious the war that is going on.

Faithful

shepherdsword
Jun 27th 2011, 02:17 PM
I actually disagree with this in the strongest possible terms, but you still made a Simon & Garfunkel reference (right?), so, nice.

Simon's lyrics were "a man HEARS what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. My reference is rooted in the definition of apophenia. The process by which we see the meaningful patterns we desire in chaotic data. Since you blindly ignored the scriptural references I provided as proof for my position and improperly defined my source for the one non biblical reference I stated,I can only say: Thanks for sharing!;)

Get back to me when you have some scripture to back your disagreement.:yes:


Very True Shepherdsword;
I see this prophecy coming to pass even on this "Christian" forum! Rejecting the Word of God in favor of their own opinions, Accusing the godly, and despising those who are promoting God's Word.

I wonder if these folks realize they are actually fulfilling this end time prophecy?? Its pretty obvious the war that is going on.

[/B]Faithful
So true brother so true. It gives serious credence to the question of Jesus "when the Son of man returns will he find faith on the earth?"

keck553
Jun 27th 2011, 07:22 PM
Very True Shepherdsword;
I see this prophecy coming to pass even on this "Christian" forum! Rejecting the Word of God in favor of their own opinions, Accusing the godly, and despising those who are promoting God's Word.

I wonder if these folks realize they are actually fulfilling this end time prophecy?? Its pretty obvious the war that is going on.

[/B]Faithful

How is this anything new?

Luke34
Jun 28th 2011, 02:41 AM
Simon's lyrics were "a man HEARS what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. My reference is rooted in the definition of apophenia. The process by which we see the meaningful patterns we desire in chaotic data.I know perfectly well what the lyric is. A reference doesn't require you to reproduce it exactly. If I were talking about, say, rotting apples, and I said "Time hurries on, and the apples that are green turn to brown," that would still be a Simon and Garfunkel reference even though I didn't say "leaves."

Of course, I wouldn't bother to explain references to you except that you apparently felt the need to become weirdly defensive instead of just saying "No, I did not mean to make that reference." And the reason I didn't go into any depth was because there wasn't any depth to go into. All you've done is take a single verse of the Bible out of its context and then claim that this means "the scriptures" demand some laughably specific telological model of history by which literally every single era is worse than the previous era. That's not something that's worth responding to.

shepherdsword
Jun 28th 2011, 10:48 AM
I know perfectly well what the lyric is. A reference doesn't require you to reproduce it exactly. If I were talking about, say, rotting apples, and I said "Time hurries on, and the apples that are green turn to brown," that would still be a Simon and Garfunkel reference even though I didn't say "leaves."

Of course, I wouldn't bother to explain references to you except that you apparently felt the need to become weirdly defensive instead of just saying "No, I did not mean to make that reference."
Translation: "I was wrong is assuming your source but instead of admitting that I choose to project my error onto you."



And the reason I didn't go into any depth was because there wasn't any depth to go into. All you've done is take a single verse of the Bible out of its context and then claim that this means "the scriptures" demand some laughably specific telological model of history by which literally every single era is worse than the previous era. That's not something that's worth responding to.

Go back and read my posts. I posted more than one verse. NONE of them are out of context. The context is the endtimes and how the world will get worse.
Like I said,get back to me when you have some biblical references to dispute that. The reason you don't go into "depth" is simply because you can't. What is laughable is saying something isn't worth responding to,when the fact is...there is no proper contrary response.
Thanks for sharing.

Luke34
Jun 28th 2011, 08:24 PM
Translation: "I was wrong is assuming your source but instead of admitting that I choose to project my error onto you."Sigh. Keep practicing. There is, of course, a difference between "a source" and "a reference." What you said was a reference even if you didn't mean for it to be.



Go back and read my posts. I posted more than one verse. NONE of them are out of context. The context is the endtimes and how the world will get worse.
Like I said,get back to me when you have some biblical references to dispute that. The reason you don't go into "depth" is simply because you can't. What is laughable is saying something isn't worth responding to,when the fact is...there is no proper contrary response.
Thanks for sharing.Here's your entire argument: "Here's some Bible verses that say things will be bad in the 'end times.' Here are some things that are bad! Therefore, it is now the end times." You also have created, out of nowhere, a ridiculous teleological interpretation of the verse in Timothy. If you feel there are any clues in the context of the passage that indicate that it's intended as a summation of all future history and a description of the "end times," then feel free to argue, coherently, that that's how the passage should be read. As of now, it's a willful misreading. Bible verses don't apply to things just because you say they do.

I've never understood why anyone thinks "Here's a list of some BAD STUFF" is any sort of argument indicating "The world will end soon." Yes, people are killing and doing other various evil things in various parts of the world. You know when else that's been true? Every other period of recorded history. There's simply no way to quantify the amount of evil in the entire world and say "Yes, this one time period is more/less evil than this other." It's absurd. It's like trying to guess in which year the earth had the most total blades of grass. It just doesn't make any sense at all and insisting that various random Bible verses apply to THIS EXACT TIME because, um, bad things are happening is ridiculous. Get back to me when you know how to construct arguments that make any sort of sense or mean anything.

shepherdsword
Jun 29th 2011, 01:10 AM
Sigh. Keep practicing. There is, of course, a difference between "a source" and "a reference." What you said was a reference even if you didn't mean for it to be.

*sigh*I suggest you read my post again. The SOURCE for my reference wasn't Paul Simon. I guess the explanation is a bit beyond you.There is a proven psychological process by which we disregard any information that conflicts with the pattern we wish to see.Your argument about this would have more merit if you suggested that perhaps I was being influenced by this process as well. After all,that is possible. However,I haven't seen you post anything that leads credence to your position. Just a weak attempt to discredit mine.


Here's your entire argument:
Don't look at my post through your paradigm and try to define "my whole argument" I will point it out to you a bit later.


"Here's some Bible verses that say things will be bad in the 'end times.' Here are some things that are bad! Therefore, it is now the end times." You also have created, out of nowhere, a ridiculous teleological interpretation of the verse in Timothy.

I highly doubt that someone just out of adolescence is capable of calling any theological argument of mine "ridiculous" but I'm all ears! Please explain how applying it to the modern era is so absurd.


If you feel there are any clues in the context of the passage that indicate that it's intended as a summation of all future history and a description of the "end times," then feel free to argue, coherently, that that's how the passage should be read. As of now, it's a willful misreading. Bible verses don't apply to things just because you say they do.Wow,how will I ever defeat this wondrous argument! I mean,all you basically said to defeat it is "NANNA NANNA BOO BOO it doesn't apply just because you say it does!" Now on a more serious note,since you claim I am willfully misreading the text let's hear what the proper reading is?
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. Well now look at that! it clearly states that when most think everything is all right...SUDDEN DESTRUCTION

2Pt 3:3 . Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.

Hmmmm,here we see that in the last days there will be those that scoff at the promise of the Lord's coming. I guess they think everything is getting better too.

2Ti 3:1 . This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Oh yeah here once again we see how much better people will get. I bet these people are making the world a better place! However,here is their real mistake:

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Oh the irony! But let's take a look at teaching and doctrine. Why is it they never come to a knowledge of truth?

1Ti 4:1 . Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Anyone with eyes to see can the progression of a one world system on the horizon.It was quoted by a President of ours 20 years ago...new world order.
It's true that every generation has always though they were the one. Such a belief kept them ever looking for the return of the Lord. However,no othe generation has had the technological means to track and record every monetary transaction made,to detect people with facial recognition software and to make the threat "Big Brother is watching you" a reality. World events,science and technology and endtime prophecy are on a course of convergent proximity like never before.
Now,lets' here a scriptural basis for the way you see things Luke? You said I took the scriptures out of context and misread them.Let's here a "proper" exegesis of them. Let's here a coherent explanation for the way you see the world going.
Regurgitated liberal babblespeak just fills me with sarcasm. Especially when it is spewed without any meaningful argument of it's own.



I've never understood why anyone thinks "Here's a list of some BAD STUFF" is any sort of argument indicating "The world will end soon." Yes, people are killing and doing other various evil things in various parts of the world. You know when else that's been true? Every other period of recorded history. There's simply no way to quantify the amount of evil in the entire world and say "Yes, this one time period is more/less evil than this other." It's absurd. It's like trying to guess in which year the earth had the most total blades of grass. It just doesn't make any sense at all and insisting that various random Bible verses apply to THIS EXACT TIME because, um, bad things are happening is ridiculous. Get back to me when you know how to construct arguments that make any sort of sense or mean anything.

What can be proven and what HAS been proven is that the scripture clearly states that the world will get progressively worse until the Lord's return. In fact is says this:

Mt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Now that sounds to me like things are going to get just about as bad as they can get right before the Lord's return. Now this is my argument, the scripture states that things will get progressively worse before the Lord's return.
I will wait for a meaningful scriptural rebuttal to my position but I won't hold my breath. I think my sarcasm is well justified.

NHL Fever
Jun 30th 2011, 04:02 PM
Every other period of recorded history. There's simply no way to quantify the amount of evil in the entire world and say "Yes, this one time period is more/less evil than this other." It's absurd. It's like trying to guess in which year the earth had the most total blades of grass. It just doesn't make any sense at all and insisting that various random Bible verses apply to THIS EXACT TIME because, um, bad things are happening is ridiculous. Get back to me when you know how to construct arguments that make any sort of sense or mean anything.

Exactly.

Sheperd you still haven't made any argument that points out how the world is worse today than in savage ancient times, or how the verses you quoted apply to today more than those times. Today you have more right, more freedoms, longer life, more opportunities, more control over your person, more religious freedom, and more chance to succeed in every way than ever before in the history of earth. Because 6 billion people manage to sin a lot is not surprising. But the world's population has always sinned, and the the realities of life were much, much harsher and crueler in the past that today.

You made some argument relating to famine in the world and resource issues, but this has almost everything to do with corporate dominance, greed, and the way resources are distributed. Morals issues like pornography are also prevalent, and likewise there is no larger source of the production and distribution of pornography than the American corporate world. So you need to seriously look at what you have today, compared to what you would have (both in material, religious, and social opportunities) compared to times past. Because you are seeing only your time as the worst time, without any historical or biblical context.

Your arguments resolve about your personal interpretation of your present situation (all about you), name-calling, and criticisms of things like the age of somebody. Maybe that was an argument in the past, it is not so today.

In the same theme as my friend above, do you know who else thought world government, and therefore the end of the world was upon them? Every other generaion in modern history. This is not new, and it won't be new when its claimed in 100, 200, and 1000 years from now either. One example - when food and gas were rationed in WWII, my great-grandpa was convinced that meant the end times were neigh (can only buy and sell with a number, etc). Does that really make sense? Well sure if you want it to. Otherwise, not really.

shepherdsword
Jun 30th 2011, 06:22 PM
Exactly.

Sheperd you still haven't made any argument that points out how the world is worse today than in savage ancient times, or how the verses you quoted apply to today more than those times. Today you have more right, more freedoms, longer life, more opportunities, more control over your person, more religious freedom, and more chance to succeed in every way than ever before in the history of earth. Because 6 billion people manage to sin a lot is not surprising. But the world's population has always sinned, and the the realities of life were much, much harsher and crueler in the past that today.

I have seen a worsening in moral standards myself in the last twenty years. Homosexuality is becoming widely accepted even to the point that in five states,they can get "married". When I was young we could pray in school. Some of my teachers in public school even used to lead us. Now you can't even pray at a graduation ceremony. Since Roe V Wade we can now kill babies in the womb. My country(America) has gone from a lender to a debtor nation. Population has gone from 4 billion to six billion in my lifetime alone. Natural resources are being depleted at an alarming rate.In fact,just read some of the headlines in this very sub-forum.


You made some argument relating to famine in the world and resource issues, but this has almost everything to do with corporate dominance, greed, and the way resources are distributed.

Things used to be much better didn't they ;)




Morals issues like pornography are also prevalent, and likewise there is no larger source of the production and distribution of pornography than the American corporate world. So you need to seriously look at what you have today, compared to what you would have (both in material, religious, and social opportunities) compared to times past. Because you are seeing only your time as the worst time, without any historical or biblical context.
Well now let's take a look at your argument from a scriptural viewpoint. Your whole argument is based on the fact that we have more material goods and therefore the world is a better place..Your argument is counter to scripture and it sounds a whole lot like being in love with the world and materialism to me. If we are Christians the quality of life isn't based on what we have or posses,Jesus said that. Do you have another interpretation for that?
Wow,and I am being told MY arguments have no scriptural context. OH,the IRONY!


Your arguments resolve about your personal interpretation of your present situation (all about you), name-calling, and criticisms of things like the age of somebody. Maybe that was an argument in the past, it is not so today.

You need to explain why you think the scriptures I posted have no relevance today. I don't know where you get this from but I wouldn't drink the kool-aid if I were you.


In the same theme as my friend above, do you know who else thought world government, and therefore the end of the world was upon them? Every other generaion in modern history.
I can see by this post that you didn't even read my responses to Luke. I freely admit as much,However this is what we are commanded to do:

2Pt 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

We are told to look for this.we were told what the signs would be for the coming of the Son of man. We were told we could know the season. At least those who really love him would be able to know. There are others who fell into this categories below. I sure don't want to be among them,do you?

2Pt 3:3 . Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.



This is not new, and it won't be new when its claimed in 100, 200, and 1000 years from now either. One example - when food and gas were rationed in WWII, my great-grandpa was convinced that meant the end times were neigh (can only buy and sell with a number, etc). Does that really make sense? Well sure if you want it to. Otherwise, not really.
Your post here sounds a lot like scoffing at the Lord's imminent return. Do you love the Lord? Do you anticipate his return? I don't see how you could with this mindset. Maybe you can clear it up for me? I am curious how this could be true with your "world view". It's not meant to be insulting.You really think things will continue for another 200 years? I suggest you offer an interpretive counterpoint to my "interpretation" before accepting the concept that the world is "just getting better"
This simply isn't true.

Cornflake
Jun 30th 2011, 06:40 PM
I have seen a worsening in moral standards myself in the last twenty years. Homosexuality is becoming widely accepted even to the point that in five states,they can get "married". When I was young we could pray in school. Some of my teachers in public school even used to lead us. Now you can't even pray at a graduation ceremony. Since Roe V Wade we can now kill babies in the womb. My country(America) has gone from a lender to a debtor nation. Population has gone from 4 billion to six billion in my lifetime alone. Natural resources are being depleted at an alarming rate.

Six states. Violent crime has decreased. As for the prayer in schools and Roe, those were all in place long before the past 20 years. Nevermind that Roe is being dismantled now, abortion is much more restricted and hard to obtain than it was 20 years ago.

As for the population increase, I don't get it, population is always increasing, someone could have said the population has grown from 2 billion to 4 - what does that mean?


Well now let's take a look at your argument from a scriptural viewpoint. Your whole argument is based on the fact that we have more material goods and therefore the world is a better place..Your argument is counter to scripture and it sounds a whole lot like being in love with the world and materialism to me. If we are Christians the quality of life isn't based on what we have or posses,Jesus said that. Do you have another interpretation for that?
Wow,and I am being told MY arguments have no scriptural context. OH,the IRONY!

He clearly said - "what you have today, compared to what you would have (both in material, religious, and social opportunities) compared to times past." So I have no idea where you get that his argument is based on that we have more material goods.



We are told to look for this.we were told what the signs would be for the coming of the Son of man. We were told we could know the season. At least those who really love him would be able to know.

Not to speak for another poster, but I believe the general point was that that scripture has been read by people in the 2000 years since it was written and the followers of Jesus of every generation since have felt it applied to their times. There's no real indication you've shown that it applies to ours more than any other.


You really think things will continue for another 200 years?
I suggest you offer an intelligent counterpoint to my interpretation before accepting the concept that the world is "just getting better"
This simply isn't true.

People back 40 years ago during the Cuban Missile Crisis would have said it wouldn't continue another 20 the way things were going. And yet....

How do you know it isn't true that things are better? Besides which, are we talking about the world or America, because most of what you're discussing is American.

shepherdsword
Jun 30th 2011, 06:57 PM
Six states. Violent crime has decreased. As for the prayer in schools and Roe, those were all in place long before the past 20 years. Nevermind that Roe is being dismantled now, abortion is much more restricted and hard to obtain than it was 20 years ago.

As for the population increase, I don't get it, population is always increasing, someone could have said the population has grown from 2 billion to 4 - what does that mean?

You don't get the simple equation more people = more resources needed? Natural resources are not infinite.




He clearly said - "what you have today, compared to what you would have (both in material, religious, and social opportunities) compared to times past." So I have no idea where you get that his argument is based on that we have more material goods.
I suggest you go back and re-read the posts. The only thing that isn't addressed that doesn't pertain to our "worldly life" in that particular point was "religious freedom We have alot less "religious freedom" than we had even 50 years ago. Try and pray in a classroom today.




Not to speak for another poster, but I believe the general point was that that scripture has been read by people in the 2000 years since it was written and the followers of Jesus of every generation since have felt it applied to their times. There's no real indication you've shown that it applies to ours more than any other.

Go back and read my posts on the subject. I saw when you entered the thread and when you posted. I highly doubt you read the whole thing. But prove me wrong. Come back and address my posts on this. After all"just because you say it's so doesn't make it so"




People back 40 years ago during the Cuban Missile Crisis would have said it wouldn't continue another 20 the way things were going. And yet....

How do you know it isn't true that things are better? Besides which, are we talking about the world or America, because most of what you're discussing is American.
Want to talk about Haiti? About Ethiopia? About the disasters in Japan? About the unrest in Israel? How about the murder and torture of Christians in the 10/40 window? How about peak oil production or global warming?Just what is it in the rest of the world you want to discuss?

Cornflake
Jun 30th 2011, 07:16 PM
You don't get the simple equation more people = more resources needed? Natural resources are not infinite.
You don't get that more people can produce more resources? Can we can the nastiness please?

Technology has improved, many things have improved. Just more people doesn't mean there aren't enough resources. We have the ability to feed everyone - we just don't, for a variety of reasons. However, Norman Borlaug.


I suggest you go back and re-read the posts. The only thing that isn't addressed that doesn't pertain to our "worldly life" in that particular point was "religious freedom We have alot less "religious freedom" than we had even 50 years ago. Try and pray in a classroom today.


Yes, I've read the thread. I happen to agree with the poster you were responding to when I posted. We have less religious freedom? We who? How so? As I'm perfectly free to pray in a classroom, same as I would've been 50 years ago.


Want to talk about Haiti? About Ethiopia? About the disasters in Japan? About the unrest in Israel? How about the murder and torture of Christians in the 10/40 window? Just what is it in the rest of the world you want to discuss?

Natural disasters now certainly have better results than they did hundreds of years ago. We didn't have urban rescue squads 200 years ago that would fly across the globe within hours to an earthquake site. Unrest in Israel was worse 20 years ago than now. Ethiopia was worse off 20 years ago than now. I'm pretty sure the last major tsunami in Japan, and earthquakes there hundreds of years ago killed far more people and had far larger lasting effects than this one. There have always been natural disasters - we're now better equipped to deal with them and help people than we ever were.

teddyv
Jun 30th 2011, 07:38 PM
Natural resources are being depleted at an alarming rate.In fact,just read some of the headlines in this very sub-forum.Resources are being consumed faster, but I would hardly say they are being depleted. I remember reading my elementary school books in the '70's suggesting oil would be gone in 20-30 years. Technology and the market are powerful tools to create larger resource bases. Of concern to me though would be the basic resources of arable land and water. I can certainly see near-ish term implications.

The headlines in this subforum are rarely rational examinations of the present state of affairs.

shepherdsword
Jun 30th 2011, 07:50 PM
You don't get that more people can produce more resources? Can we can the nastiness please?

Technology has improved, many things have improved. Just more people doesn't mean there aren't enough resources. We have the ability to feed everyone - we just don't, for a variety of reasons. However, Norman Borlaug.


Who is being nasty? You said you didn't get it and I simplified it. I apologize if that sounds "nasty". Do I have to agree with the ridiculous assumption that the world is getting better to not be "nasty" or do I just have to agree the population explosion's effect on resource depletion is as vague and mysterious as you seem to suggest? A remark,that in my view was just as sarcastic as mine was. And no,more people doesn't equal more resources "production".Such things are finite and most scientists agree the current population growth rate is unsustainable.

Population growth drives depletion of natural resources:http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/12786.aspx

Population growth unsustainable:http://www.ourfutureplanet.org/news/265-the-unsustainable-population-explosion-


Yes, I've read the thread. I happen to agree with the poster you were responding to when I posted. We have less religious freedom? We who? How so? As I'm perfectly free to pray in a classroom, same as I would've been 50 years ago.

If you read the thread then why don't you post an alternative scriptural perspective? Do you have one? That is the challenge.So me a scriptural perspective for the world getting better....before the Lord's return. I think my request is a valid one and yet it is repeatedly ignored. All I hear is counter opinions without any biblical references. And no...you are not as free to pray in a classroom as you were 50 years ago if you are a public school teacher.

On elimination of prayer in schools:http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0098_Ban_on_school_prayer.html



Natural disasters now certainly have better results than they did hundreds of years ago. We didn't have urban rescue squads 200 years ago that would fly across the globe within hours to an earthquake site. Unrest in Israel was worse 20 years ago than now. Ethiopia was worse off 20 years ago than now. I'm pretty sure the last major tsunami in Japan, and earthquakes there hundreds of years ago killed far more people and had far larger lasting effects than this one. There have always been natural disasters - we're now better equipped to deal with them and help people than we ever were.

Natural disasters on the rise:http://www.washprofile.org/en/node/3381

world hunger getting worse:http://www.euronews.net/2009/10/16/global-hunger-getting-worse-says-un/

peak oil production a reality:http://www.countercurrents.org/peakoil.htm

Natural resource depletion:http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/6628

teddyv
Jun 30th 2011, 08:00 PM
Natural disasters on the rise:http://www.washprofile.org/en/node/3381No, more people are being affected by natural disasters.


world hunger getting worse:http://www.euronews.net/2009/10/16/global-hunger-getting-worse-says-un/Natural disasters have some implication with hunger, but there is such a human/political component to this issue.


peak oil production a reality:http://www.countercurrents.org/peakoil.htmWe'll see.


Natural resource depletion:http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/6628I don't what's going on in here. They talk about climate change and then put in resource depletion for some reason. Though there is some crossover, it seems like some sort of shotgun propaganda approach.

shepherdsword
Jun 30th 2011, 08:09 PM
No, more people are being affected by natural disasters.

Natural disasters have some implication with hunger, but there is such a human/political component to this issue.

We'll see.

I don't what's going on in here. They talk about climate change and then put in resource depletion for some reason. Though there is some crossover, it seems like some sort of shotgun propaganda approach.

Does that mean you think natural resources are infinite and current population growth sustainable? Does it mean that you think the world will be a much better place before the Lord's return or does it mean that we don't even have to worry about the Lord's return. Because,after all,every generation has though they would be the last? That's what some are suggesting. I just want to know if your disagreement was just with the references being spurious or inadequate or with the position the OP presented entirely?

teddyv
Jun 30th 2011, 08:33 PM
I just want to know if your disagreement was just with the references being spurious or inadequate or with the position the OP presented entirely?None of those links are what I would call useful for attempting to back up your claims. All it looks like is you googled the issue you wanted and uncritically posted the first hit that appeared to address your point.

Cornflake
Jun 30th 2011, 08:42 PM
Who is being nasty? You said you didn't get it and I simplified it. I apologize if that sounds "nasty". Do I have to agree with the ridiculous assumption that the world is getting better to not be "nasty" or do I just have to agree the population explosion's effect on resource depletion is as vague and mysterious as you seem to suggest? A remark,that in my view was just as sarcastic as mine was. And no,more people doesn't equal more resources "production".Such things are finite and most scientists agree the current population growth rate is unsustainable.

Population growth drives depletion of natural resources:http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/12786.aspx

Population growth unsustainable:http://www.ourfutureplanet.org/news/...ion-explosion-

Did you read those articles? Neither one appears to be by a scientist, though the first quotes a scientist, but it's an opinion piece about energy policy. The other is just vaguely saying that we need to get developing nations to curb their populations. I have no idea what 'our future planet' is, either, but the piece is... amateurly written.

There are two things at play - resources like water and resources like food. There's an argument to be made for water, certainly, but there's also no telling what technology will bring. As for food, that's simple mismanagement. There's also technological improvement there to be had. Most of the resource problems on this planet are about mismanagement - as one of the commenters on one of those things points out, the developed world uses far, far more than their population-sized share of resources.


f you read the thread then why don't you post an alternative scriptural perspective? Do you have one? That is the challenge.So me a scriptural perspective for the world getting better....before the Lord's return. I think my request is a valid one and yet it is repeatedly ignored. All I hear is counter opinions without any biblical references. And no...you are not as free to pray in a classroom as you were 50 years ago if you are a public school teacher.

I'm not debating that scripture says what it says. I'm saying that the interpretation of scripture that says now is the time - when the interpretation of that exact same scripture has said that exact same thing to people for the past 2000 years - perhaps is less than sure.


And no...you are not as free to pray in a classroom as you were 50 years ago if you are a public school teacher.

Now it's if I'm a teacher? Before it was just pray in a classroom. However, teachers are just as free to pray in a classroom as they were 50 years ago too, and plenty do. They cannot lead other people in prayer, no. That's not their job.

As for the rest and those kind of random-looking links - what the Hypnotoad said.

shepherdsword
Jun 30th 2011, 09:17 PM
Did you read those articles? Neither one appears to be by a scientist, though the first quotes a scientist, but it's an opinion piece about energy policy. The other is just vaguely saying that we need to get developing nations to curb their populations. I have no idea what 'our future planet' is, either, but the piece is... amateurly written.

There are two things at play - resources like water and resources like food. There's an argument to be made for water, certainly, but there's also no telling what technology will bring. As for food, that's simple mismanagement. There's also technological improvement there to be had. Most of the resource problems on this planet are about mismanagement - as one of the commenters on one of those things points out, the developed world uses far, far more than their population-sized share of resources.

It's more than just food and water although they are an issue. Raw metals,oil and even arable land are issues as well. I still haven't seen anything that disputes their depletion. I could therefore critique your response or more accurately your lack of meaningful one one as a bit amateurish as well. Do you have any sources that backup your claim that more people will in turn mean a greater production in resources?




I'm not debating that scripture says what it says. I'm saying that the interpretation of scripture that says now is the time - when the interpretation of that exact same scripture has said that exact same thing to people for the past 2000 years - perhaps is less than sure.
Perhaps it is,who knows? Perhaps the bible calls the people that hold to your position on this "scoffers".But one thing is certain,the scripture definitely speaks that things will get worse and worse as the time draws nearer. Can you dispute that? That fact alone disputes the argument that the world is getting better and better.




Now it's if I'm a teacher? Before it was just pray in a classroom. However, teachers are just as free to pray in a classroom as they were 50 years ago too, and plenty do. They cannot lead other people in prayer, no. That's not their job.

WOW,this is the first time I have a "christian" publicly state that getting prayer out of schools wasn't a restriction in religious freedom. I have heard plenty of ultra liberal atheists say that ,though. You don't think it's a teacher's job to teach "values" eh? . That's in essence what prayer in schools is,teaching kids to bring things to God.It's a pretty sad position since that actually what they are doing,anyway. And the "values" they are teaching sure "ain't" godly ones.It's ok to teach situational ethics and deny biblical absolutes. It's ok to teach homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle. It's fine to teach an origin of life that excludes God but it's not their job to lead the kids in prayer. That may be fine for an atheist to condone but for a "christian" it's quite sad. I want to see your proof that "plenty of teachers pray in the classroom" in public school that is.



As for the rest and those kind of random-looking links - what the Hypnotoad said.

He didn't "say" much of anything except to say I was google searching. I haven't seen him present a meaningful response that contradicts the fact the world is getting worse. But then neither have you,so you're right, you are pretty much saying what he said.

teddyv
Jun 30th 2011, 09:31 PM
It's more than just food and water although they are an issue. Raw metals,oil and even arable land are issues as well. I still haven't seen anything that disputes their depletion. I could therefore critique your response or more accurately your lack of meaningful one one as a bit amateurish as well. Do you have any sources that backup your claim that more people will in turn mean a greater production in resources? Anytime you see someone try to make this point, they are probably looking at current resource inventories and projecting some sort of straight line consumption. I've made this point elsewhere, but 99.99% of every metal mine discovered was found because of some surface expression of the deposit below, be it an outcropping or some chemical signature in the soil. "Blind" deposits, with no surface expression are extremely rare to locate, obviously. That does not preclude technological improvements that will assist in discovering these at a later date. Demand for metals will always be driving the exploration and extraction of minerals. Really only a fraction of the world has been explored. Much of Africa is probably a treasure trove of resources but political instability is a huge hindrance to the development of natural resources (too risky).

shepherdsword
Jun 30th 2011, 10:09 PM
Anytime you see someone try to make this point, they are probably looking at current resource inventories and projecting some sort of straight line consumption. I've made this point elsewhere, but 99.99% of every metal mine discovered was found because of some surface expression of the deposit below, be it an outcropping or some chemical signature in the soil. "Blind" deposits, with no surface expression are extremely rare to locate, obviously. That does not preclude technological improvements that will assist in discovering these at a later date. Demand for metals will always be driving the exploration and extraction of minerals. Really only a fraction of the world has been explored. Much of Africa is probably a treasure trove of resources but political instability is a huge hindrance to the development of natural resources (too risky).

Maybe all the seismic activity Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 will bring more to the surface?;) I mean,I see your point but there comes a time when discovery and mining of these resources will be surpassed by usage. I mean,conceivably someone might come up with some ingenious way to economically extract precious metals that have been dissolved in the Oceans but it's a long way off. Sooner or later demand will exceed supply.

Cornflake
Jul 1st 2011, 12:14 AM
It's more than just food and water although they are an issue. Raw metals,oil and even arable land are issues as well. I still haven't seen anything that disputes their depletion. I could therefore critique your response or more accurately your lack of meaningful one one as a bit amateurish as well. Do you have any sources that backup your claim that more people will in turn mean a greater production in resources?

That, the more people = greater production, related mostly to food. As population grows, people tend to grow more food or find more ways to get more out of the food grown. Are you suggesting we don't grow more food than we did when the population was 4 billion?

As for disputing depletion, you haven't shown anything that says resources are being depleted. You just said 'scientists say' and then posted two links that didn't say that really and weren't by scientists. Also, what Hypnotoad said + two words on the "conceivably someone might come up with some ingenious way to economically extract" stuff. As I said, technology advances. Like, say, oil sands.


Perhaps it is,who knows? Perhaps the bible calls the people that hold to your position on this "scoffers".But one thing is certain,the scripture definitely speaks that things will get worse and worse as the time draws nearer. Can you dispute that? That fact alone disputes the argument that the world is getting better and better.


Are YOU reading the thread, because I discussed that earlier.


WOW,this is the first time I have a "christian" publicly state that getting prayer out of schools wasn't a restriction in religious freedom.

What in the world? I said people, including teachers, are not restricted from praying in the classroom. They're just restricted from leading people in prayer. As for -


You don't think it's a teacher's job to teach "values" eh? . That's in essence what prayer in schools is,teaching kids to bring things to God... It's fine to teach an origin of life that excludes God but it's not their job to lead the kids in prayer. That may be fine for an atheist to condone but for a "christian" it's quite sad.

So if your child's teacher is a Muslim or Satanist and would teach your child to bring things to Allah or that Satan is the answer to their troubles, you'd be fine with that, in the name of religious freedom? As far as I can tell, you feel that's part of a teacher's job.


He didn't "say" much of anything except to say I was google searching. I haven't seen him present a meaningful response that contradicts the fact the world is getting worse. But then neither have you,so you're right, you are pretty much saying what he said.

I'd be interested to know what counts as a meaningful response to you, as it seems you've said everyone who disagrees with you but has answered you pretty in depth you've dismissed as not being 'meaningful' but your random links are? As for what I was referring to when I agreed with the toad, post 66, not the one in which he discussed the links, that was basically at the same time I was posting.

shepherdsword
Jul 1st 2011, 12:52 AM
That, the more people = greater production, related mostly to food. As population grows, people tend to grow more food or find more ways to get more out of the food grown. Are you suggesting we don't grow more food than we did when the population was 4 billion?
Are you suggesting food is an infinite resource? Are you suggesting that the petroleum based products that drive it such as fuel are infinite? Are you suggesting that we have a stable climate that will allow a future increase of production?


As for disputing depletion, you haven't shown anything that says resources are being depleted. You just said 'scientists say' and then posted two links that didn't say that really and weren't by scientists. Also, what Hypnotoad said + two words on the "conceivably someone might come up with some ingenious way to economically extract" stuff. As I said, technology advances. Like, say, oil sands.

Yeah two as opposed to your none. In fact all you have provided is an opinion,one that I might add,you cannot substantiate with scripture. Only a dreamer would suggest that "oil sands" could economically replace sweet crude. Do you have any data to back this claim? A "random" link perhaps?




Are YOU reading the thread, because I discussed that earlier.

I saw a halfhearted attempt to address it,care to try again?




What in the world? I said people, including teachers, are not restricted from praying in the classroom. They're just restricted from leading people in prayer. As for

Once again I ask for facts proving that many teachers pray in the classroom in public school and all I get is some chirping crickets.




So if your child's teacher is a Muslim or Satanist and would teach your child to bring things to Allah or that Satan is the answer to their troubles, you'd be fine with that, in the name of religious freedom? As far as I can tell, you feel that's part of a teacher's job.

I have heard people with a liberal agenda use this same lame argument. It's been regurgitated so many times I wonder why someone who claims to be a Christian would even suggest it. How many satanist teachers have tried to lead a class in prayer? How many Muslim ones? Can you name any?
Show me the figures.





I'd be interested to know what counts as a meaningful response to you, as it seems you've said everyone who disagrees with you but has answered you pretty in depth you've dismissed as not being 'meaningful' but your random links are? As for what I was referring to when I agreed with the toad, post 66, not the one in which he discussed the links, that was basically at the same time I was posting.

In depth? Now THAT"S funny :rofl: I haven't heard anything but a shallow repeat of opinions that are more associated with liberal atheism than Christianity. I consider something "meaningful" that has some scriptural justification but I haven't heard any. Just a scornful mocking that sounds incredibly like the scoffers Peter was speaking about. Once again I ask,how to your reconcile your worldview with what the bible says? I would consider such an answer to have some meaning,even if it was somewhat distorted. As it is all I hear is liberal touchy feeling that all is well with the world,"don't worry it's getting better,technology is the answer to all of our current problems" It reminds me of "When they say Peace and Safety then comes sudden destruction"


As for what I was referring to when I agreed with the toad, post 66, not the one in which he discussed the links, that was basically at the same time I was posting.

I was referring to your lack to back up what you say with fact,not just another opinion.

Cornflake
Jul 1st 2011, 01:22 AM
Are you suggesting food is an infinite resource? Are you suggesting that the petroleum based products that drive it such as fuel are infinite? Are you suggesting that we have a stable climate that will allow a future increase of production?

Nope. I was suggesting exactly what I suggested.


Yeah two as opposed to your none. In fact all you have provided is an opinion,one that I might add,you cannot substantiate with scripture. Only a dreamer would suggest that "oil sands" could economically replace sweet crude.

Well, good I didn't suggest that then, isn't it?


I saw a halfhearted attempt to address it,care to try again?

As, from what I can tell, anything but agreeing with you is automatically dismissed as lacking, nope.


Once again I ask for facts proving that many teachers pray in the classroom in public school and all I get is some chirping crickets.

You want me to prove that people pray during the day? Maybe there's a teacher on here who'd care to weigh in. Otherwise, what would you like as "proof" that people pray? I said that people are allowed to pray in classrooms, just as they were 50 years ago; teachers cannot lead people in prayer but yes I did say plenty of teachers pray while at work. If you've never met a teacher, I don't know what to tell you.


I have heard people with a liberal agenda use this same lame argument. It's been regurgitated so many time I wonder why someone who claims to be a Christian would even suggest it. How many satanist teachers have tried to lead a class in prayer? How many Muslim ones? Can you name any?
Show me the figures.

Why someone who "claims to be Christian" would suggest that the logical consequence of allowing teachers to lead students in prayer and teach them religious values in public school would be that some teachers who are of religions other than Christian would do that too is because those people used basic logic and reason.

You want ... figures... for something I said WOULD happen were the law different from what it is?? What? Where are the "figures" PROVING that, if teachers were allowed to lead students in prayer and teach religious values only Christian teachers would do so and no Muslims or teachers of any other religion would?


I haven't heard anything but a shallow repeat of opinions that are more associated with liberal atheism than Christianity. I consider something "meaningful" that has some scriptural justification but I haven't heard any.

Well, we've been over that, it was discussed upthread. If you don't like it, well...


I was referring to your lack to back up what you say with fact,not just another opinion.

As opposed to the "fact" that you know that YOUR interpretation of scripture is true, despite that everyone else who has thought the exact same thing for the past 2000 years has been wrong - or right, considering what I said earlier.

I officially give up on this interchange, as I'm not going to be called an atheist scoffer by someone who seems unable to read what I'm typing and refuses to acknowledge anything but agreement as worthy of discussion. This is not edifying.

shepherdsword
Jul 1st 2011, 01:30 AM
Nope. I was suggesting exactly what I suggested.



Well, good I didn't suggest that then, isn't it?



As, from what I can tell, anything but agreeing with you is automatically dismissed as lacking, nope.



You want me to prove that people pray during the day? Maybe there's a teacher on here who'd care to weigh in. Otherwise, what would you like as "proof" that people pray? I said that people are allowed to pray in classrooms, just as they were 50 years ago; teachers cannot lead people in prayer but yes I did say plenty of teachers pray while at work. If you've never met a teacher, I don't know what to tell you.



Why someone who "claims to be Christian" would suggest that the logical consequence of allowing teachers to lead students in prayer and teach them religious values in public school would be that some teachers who are of religions other than Christian would do that too is because those people used basic logic and reason.

You want ... figures... for something I said WOULD happen were the law different from what it is?? What? Where are the "figures" PROVING that, if teachers were allowed to lead students in prayer and teach religious values only Christian teachers would do so and no Muslims or teachers of any other religion would?



Well, we've been over that, it was discussed upthread. If you don't like it, well...



As opposed to the "fact" that you know that YOUR interpretation of scripture is true, despite that everyone else who has thought the exact same thing for the past 2000 years has been wrong - or right, considering what I said earlier.

I officially give up on this interchange, as I'm not going to be called an atheist scoffer by someone who seems unable to read what I'm typing and refuses to acknowledge anything but agreement as worthy of discussion. This is not edifying.

I do stand by my statement that is what you SOUND like,didn't say you were one. We can settle it privately if you like.
When someone says ' every generation has said Christ will return soon and they were all wrong" then it DOES sound similar to what Peter was saying.
That's something you need to see.

blink4956
May 7th 2012, 07:24 PM
"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again, there is nothing new under the sun." Eccl 1:9
"As in the days of Noah so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man" Matt 24

Sin is indeed escalating in our generation and becoming more widespread and perverse, but it has all be done before. There is a culmination happening in our generation that is leading to the return of the Lord.

I recently saw a documentary called "Nefarious: Merchant of Souls" that takes a look at the billion dollar sex industry that is happening across the earth and is rooted in pornography. But what I loved about the film was the way Jesus was seen as the solution and healing for the restoration of women whose lives were stolen by human trafficking and sexual exploitation.
[URL="http://nefariousdocumentary.com/"]

I think what's happening with the sexualization of our culture, the objectification of women in media, and the proliferation of pornography are all contributing to the issue of human trafficking which is so much more than a social justice issue and really indicative of where our culture is at today.

RevLogos
May 27th 2012, 07:13 PM
OK, riddle me this:

A naked man in Miami assaulted someone and started eating his face. Yes, you read that right, eating his face. Police came and he wouldn't quit, so they shot him. Still he wouldn't quit, so they shot him 4 more times killing him. The man with the half eaten face is in critical condition at a hospital.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/26/2818832/naked-man-shot-killed-on-macarthur.html

There have been several other weird cases of cannibalism lately.

An "artist" in Japan had his genitals surgically removed. Then he cooked them and fed them to paying customers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149879/Japanese-man-22-cooks-genitals-serves-paying-dinner-party-guests.html?ITO=1490

And last December, on a Dutch TV talk show, they decided a great stunt would be to eat each other's cooked flesh.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/offbeat/12412773/tv-presenters-eat-each-others-fleshhttp/

Yes, the world is getting sicker.

Jeanne D
May 27th 2012, 07:40 PM
It sounds like demonic activity in all instances.

Jeanne :eek:

AndrewBaptistFL
May 27th 2012, 09:18 PM
It sounds like demonic activity in all instances.

Jeanne :eek:

Yeah. (15 characters)

Liquid Tension
May 27th 2012, 09:21 PM
An "artist" in Japan had his genitals surgically removed. Then he cooked them and fed them to paying customers.



I didn't read the article, but this made me cringe in more than one way. :o:o

Athanasius
May 28th 2012, 12:38 AM
I didn't read the article, but this made me cringe in more than one way. :o:o

Having had surgery in 'that area', I cringe all the more :S

TomH
May 28th 2012, 01:21 AM
Whats its got in its pocketses my precious? gollum.

Or as the Orc said, "what about its legs? it won't need its legs!

Saved7
May 30th 2012, 12:02 AM
OK, riddle me this:

A naked man in Miami assaulted someone and started eating his face. Yes, you read that right, eating his face. Police came and he wouldn't quit, so they shot him. Still he wouldn't quit, so they shot him 4 more times killing him. The man with the half eaten face is in critical condition at a hospital.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/26/2818832/naked-man-shot-killed-on-macarthur.html

There have been several other weird cases of cannibalism lately.

An "artist" in Japan had his genitals surgically removed. Then he cooked them and fed them to paying customers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149879/Japanese-man-22-cooks-genitals-serves-paying-dinner-party-guests.html?ITO=1490

And last December, on a Dutch TV talk show, they decided a great stunt would be to eat each other's cooked flesh.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/offbeat/12412773/tv-presenters-eat-each-others-fleshhttp/

Yes, the world is getting sicker.


Yup, demonic activity for sure. My daughter tried to chalk it up to a "zombie apocolypse". When I corrected her about that not being in the Bible, she rolled her eyes and got annoyed. Amazing how much truth this child has been taught, yet she still chooses to listen to such non-sense because I guess it sounds more exciting without the reality of judgement. sheesh.:rolleyes:

The crazy thing about the last two articles is that people knowingly, not drug induced ATE human flesh!:o:eek:

RevLogos
May 30th 2012, 02:59 AM
Yup, demonic activity for sure. My daughter tried to chalk it up to a "zombie apocolypse". When I corrected her about that not being in the Bible, she rolled her eyes and got annoyed. Amazing how much truth this child has been taught, yet she still chooses to listen to such non-sense because I guess it sounds more exciting without the reality of judgement. sheesh.:rolleyes:

The crazy thing about the last two articles is that people knowingly, not drug induced ATE human flesh!:o:eek:

No zombie apocalypse? Are you sure?

Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Zec 14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

Free Indeed
May 31st 2012, 06:45 PM
The crazy thing about the last two articles is that people knowingly, not drug induced ATE human flesh!:o:eek:

In the case of the guy in Florida, they are waiting on toxicology reports. Police suspect that the perpetrator was high on sniffing bath salts.

Sojourner
May 31st 2012, 06:58 PM
Yeah, it's getting ugly out there. Check out the guy who "disemboweled" himself and threw part of his intestines at police:
http://thedaleygator.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/man-disembowels-self-throws-intestines-at-officers/

Liquid Tension
May 31st 2012, 07:57 PM
Yeah, it's getting ugly out there. Check out the guy who "disemboweled" himself and threw part of his intestines at police:
http://thedaleygator.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/man-disembowels-self-throws-intestines-at-officers/

What the...................:o:o:o

RevLogos
Jun 1st 2012, 12:01 AM
What the...................:o:o:o

But wait, there's more!

Man kills housemate, eats parts of his heart and brain. No link, his name is Hellgren in Baltimore.

And then there's the gay porn star in Canada who killed and ate someone. No link, but his last name is Magnotta if you care to search. “Once you kill and taste blood it’s impossible to stop.”

2 Th 2:5 who is being held back, until when?

(I originally had links but then decided, this was just too disgusting.)

Sojourner
Jun 1st 2012, 12:22 AM
We're seeing lot of Jeffrey Dahmer level stuff here. There can be little doubt this insane stuff is driven by demonic activity.

awestruckchild
Jun 2nd 2012, 03:12 PM
I am in complete agreement that it is demonic activity.
I don't believe it's going to "die down" either, or is just some sort of - "oh, these things happen all the time, but just are the favorite story of the media right now!" type of thing.
I think it will just keep increasing from here.
I never thought I would run across a demon possessed person ever, but amazingly, I just have. So that's two cases in Maryland.
Our dreams showed this was coming, and crazy as it might sound, I felt something happen about a month or so ago that I think was either a seal being broken or something being removed above our heads. It definitely did not feel right and made me feel very nervous, but not scared. I honestly don't know, with the things I have been seeing and experiencing lately, how I am remaining so calm, but I am....

Jeanne D
Jun 2nd 2012, 04:34 PM
I am in complete agreement that it is demonic activity.
I don't believe it's going to "die down" either, or is just some sort of - "oh, these things happen all the time, but just are the favorite story of the media right now!" type of thing.
I think it will just keep increasing from here.
I never thought I would run across a demon possessed person ever, but amazingly, I just have. So that's two cases in Maryland.
Our dreams showed this was coming, and crazy as it might sound, I felt something happen about a month or so ago that I think was either a seal being broken or something being removed above our heads. It definitely did not feel right and made me feel very nervous, but not scared. I honestly don't know, with the things I have been seeing and experiencing lately, how I am remaining so calm, but I am....

Remember, Greater is He who is in you, than he that is in the world!

Jeanne :)

awestruckchild
Jun 2nd 2012, 04:44 PM
Remember, Greater is He who is in you, than he that is in the world!

Jeanne :)

Well, Jeanne, you might have no idea of this, but you just delivered a message to me that speaks to a fear I have been having for a few days now.
The fear was that I might hear: Jesus I know, and Paul I know, but who are you?
I feared it because I felt I was not holy enough.
But that is missing the point and is a ridiculous fear for me because He is in me and my name is not important. It is the name of the One in me who is important.
So thank you! Profusely!

Jeanne D
Jun 2nd 2012, 04:57 PM
Well, Jeanne, you might have no idea of this, but you just delivered a message to me that speaks to a fear I have been having for a few days now.
The fear was that I might hear: Jesus I know, and Paul I know, but who are you?
I feared it because I felt I was not holy enough.
But that is missing the point and is a ridiculous fear for me because He is in me and my name is not important. It is the name of the One in me who is important.
So thank you! Profusely!

Amen sister! This is always something each of needs to be reminded of from time to time.

Jeanne :)

Saved7
Jun 2nd 2012, 04:59 PM
Well, Jeanne, you might have no idea of this, but you just delivered a message to me that speaks to a fear I have been having for a few days now.
The fear was that I might hear: Jesus I know, and Paul I know, but who are you?
I feared it because I felt I was not holy enough.
But that is missing the point and is a ridiculous fear for me because He is in me and my name is not important. It is the name of the One in me who is important.
So thank you! Profusely!


I love seeing God work!:pp